Faceless? never! in the 1950,s and 1960,s we knew who they had been.
We know who they are today.
They are the owners of the ALP! representing 20% of the over all population they are the Union heads Right wing Union power brokers.
Yesterday they sorted through the SA union waste paper basket to put yet another Union reject in front of that states senator currently holding a ministry.
As a REWARD! for helping dump Kevin Rudd.
Now tell me if BHP was a member of the Liberal or National party, would followers of those two party,s be pleased.
IF as still recently 6 in every ten seats in conference,to set the party,s future agenda HAD TO BE GIVEN TO BHP?
Now it is 50/50 what chance reform? any want to bet other than unions can get party reforms past the union power brokers?
If we get a run, this thread will witness mass hypnotism.
Or is it mass deception?
A book will tell the truth cranky Kev,should have controlled his bad mouth.
Even should have been forced to.
BUT UNIONS had a plan, right wing self interested power brokers intent on power not serving the party, conspired with an ex lefty, extreme left, to take off the head of a first term Prime Minister.
Labor must reform, given these Representatives of the 20% shafted even them, we must give our movements Union and its child back to the reason we exist RANK AND FILE.

The death of any democracy starts with the introduction of a PARTY system (Labor, Liberal, Greens Democrats or Republicans does not matter) Because the votes of the majority are replaced by the votes of a very few (so called power brokers)
We may get the liberal or Labor party we voted for into power but from that point on we have lost control of the country to a very few individuals.

These individuals even control the selection of candidates put on a ballot (ones they can control).

Democracy has been dead for a long time.
Also the IDEAL of doing something for the public good has long died.

Anyone against this current system is quickly dealt with EG Pauline Hanson (even though hers was a party system it to a large extent did what the majority of Australians wanted.

The Greens are so far on the LOONEY side wanting to use big ocean liners and jets to fly in thousands of welfare for lifers, crying every time a boat sinks when actually the fault is on the people themselves NO AUSTRALIANS forced them to get on the boat. Greed put them on it, They passed many safe countries that could have taken them. There were many countries they could have got to safely that were by far closer than the long journey to Australia.

This part from the National times says it all.
Quote ''The Labor Party is a democratic organization and today, 200 elected delegates have determined who will represent Labor in South Australia at the next election,'' This was from Wong herself.

In other words of all the people likely to vote Labor or be eligible(nice word) to nominate who will represent labor the job was done by 200 people, ONE hundred dollars says that 200 was much less because many of them would have been told who to pick.

This is the problem Philip, our democratic rights are gone for another term, as soon as we exit the polling booth.

Voters must be given more say in day to day issues.

Let me first be honest, I a an activist within the ALP.
An ex trade union official, but forever unionist, proud to have been part of our best,the one that drove Rudd from office.
I too, with our reserve, think Labors policy's,with the faults many had, are the very best recommendation for my party.
Much I say in this thread will bring doubters.
Truth, not blind faith, is worth it.
My only policy complaint [implemented Gillard had brain snaps] is back down on mining tax, we should have got better.
Looking from within, knowing some of the players, but of far more importance knowing what unionists and workers think.
I am forced to tell the SUITS, an intended insult!you got it wrong, have the guts to bring Rudd back or NEVER seek the leadership of a party you raped.
Go back, to my first post, first forget the uninformed posts we will see, we are in the end a two party country.
Both party,s are quite capable of leading us, Labor stands on the ground Liberals once did.
Forget the chanted nonsense about abandoning its roots.
Who in Australia wants a leftist ALP or extreme right wing Liberal party?
Who wants a Union head, empowered by his membership, [not talking about Paul Howes] who acts without their knowledge and against their will?
TRUTH.
Know it, Gillard can NEVER WIN AN ELECTION! if it was the chook raffle down the pub, and she bought every ticket, blokes would line up ten deep to pinch the chook rather than see her get it.
Be there, Conference day! see Union appointed Marshals, follow heads bought only to vote, AS TOLD!
The only action other than drinking they undertake the whole weekend.
It get lonely sitting and hearing every word, not to worry, not working now, no room for me, 50 in every hundred seats are empty some times but taken, by ALP PTY LTD.
Much needs saying, ALP will rise again and it must get Forster parents the dysfunctional mum and dad of todays,ALP power princess betrayed us, do not care less

Belly,
OK, I would like to see the reforms you would advocate specificly.

Butch and Phillip,
The only way for electors to get a say in the day to day decissions of government is by way of Citizens Initiated Referenda (CIR), which if a certain number of electors complain or object to a decission, the government has to hold a referendum on the issue at the next election. This makes the government think before implementing changes.

But, it is a pipe dream because it takes away some power from the politicians and that is the last thing they want. Look how they coluded when they thought One Nation was a threat to their power. Since then they have made it far more difficult for a new party to get up and running.

Banjo first this mornings polls.
Let my fellow travelers not yet celebrate.
They mark the end of Abbottism.
We surely knew this day would come oppose every thing question every policy even if we agree with it.
Do not let truth be a reason not to complain,about anything.
Scream stop the boats,but oppose ANYTHING that may bring that about.
In the polls we see not the rise of Labor but the fall of Abbott.
Gillard, confronted by her past including axing Rudd, but much more Turnbull is unelectable.
Banjo more criticism to let out but reform?
Let no power broker control voting blocks,seats reserved for union to be representative of party numbers as a whole no domination.

National membership on line conferences to set new policy,s.
Open membership voting for all on major issues.
Tax reform policy speeded up.
National debates open to every Australian on policy,s for the future
Openness for all parliamentarians , what they own ,crimes the whole thing, prison terms for criminal acts while in Parliament.
Yours Banjo?

Belly,
I do not have any suggestions to improve the workings of the ALP or the Liberals. It is your members party and, no doubt, you know how your party works better than me. However if currently the party gives voting advantage to unions, or any other group, it is open for manipulation and back room deals. All party members should have the same voting rights. I do know that far more politicing goes on within parties than between parties. Internal politics can be very savage.

I was simply curious as to what specific reforms you were thinking about. Reducing power to groups can be very difficult.

Banjo power brokers are in every party, Currently in NSW the right, some times hard right, run the Liberals.
Mostly they are counter productive.
I have over reached, constantly asking for a Liberal, may be more than one, to express the wrongs of their party.
Clearly no such balanced person can be found here.
Or no problems exist in that party.
Accountability still is a requirement for me.
We are not short however off screamers who throw mud at every move Labor makes.
Quite willing to put down every Labor voter, therefore half this country,s population.
I hold my views strongly, it had to come, Abbottism has failed, enough know he opposes every thing,it is planned, he stops the solution to the boats, yet if in power, his party may need to use Malaysia, what other way exists?
He will go, Turnbull return,soon, Kevin Rudd may well say no to a beating to nothing.
This country is weary and trusts no politician.
Under mined by my sides heedless fools, the Sussex street vandal who made room for Carr, then when to Packers Casino?
Abbottism, cry Wolf worked for a time, but it is over, so is he.
Gillard did not rise Negative man fell.
Hard to get a discussion other than slaging off the left going here of late.

Belly you started this thread and named it ALP Faceless Men Unmasked.

Now you want to go off subject and speak about Abbott, why don't you remain on your suject. I agree that both major parties have groups that lean one way or the other, but you have indicated that union reps have an unfair advantage over ordinary members.

In most organizations I have been associated with Branches elect their office bearers and their delegates to state or federal conference. Once the conference agenda is available, the branches either direct their delegates on certain issues or let them vote as they see it. If the ALP has given unions voting advantage over members that is what your party has to sort out.

As for slagging off about Labor. I make no bones about naming the present mob as the worst government in Aus history and will do all I can to get them removed. The reality is that the alternative is Liberals so if I want Labor removed, I am not about to critisise the Liberals at this point. If they make blunders and stuff ups after being elected, that will be a different situation.

Labor has made so many stuff ups and blunders, they thoughly deserve to be slagged. How many of the 50 Labor stuff ups can you really find to be incorrect. I can post the list again now if you want to be reminded. I have no doubt the Libs wil stop the boats from coming and i do not believe they need Malaysia to do it, as I have said many times, simply do not give the shonks what they seek.

Banjo while I hope we can continue to be mates, you time and again, QUESTION ME, FOR DOING JUST WHAT YOU DO HERE.
Abbott is no less a target than is this government or Gillard.
At this point I should say surely you understand that.
It however would be pointless, you do not.
He however, believe it, is gone, only extraordinary circumstances bought him to leadership.
There lays the problem, Liberals, Conservatives,SOME ONLY but too many, hide an inner bitterness against half of this country, slaging off Labor and those who vote for them.
Wanting the freedom to do that, to my side,but squeal if it is their side targeted.
I target the wrongs in my side here and in numbers of threads, yet not one, a single Liberal poster,has found reason to talk of the faults on their side.
Labor needs more Belly,s more who love and trust the party, who openly demand no more NSW filth, no more knifing a first term prime minister.
No more appointing such as Gillard who held the knife.
No more power mad power brokers.
Banjo my party and unions does that just as you said, not unusual for you ,you miss understand my complaint.
50% of seats at conference, Delegates, those who can get in and vote, are reserved for unions.
Distributed on the basis of that unions membership/donations to party it was 60%.
Union heads pick the weekend vote holders who vote as told.
After Rudd,s knifing, if we had the numbers, we would see big numbers in parliament are ex union heads.
A party rewarding them and demanding women get 40% of seats,is not democratic.
Only the best should serve/be picked if that makes it all woman or man ok by me.

Belly,
I expect you to be critical of Abbott and the Libs, being an ALP member, but you chose the tittle of this thread which is -ALP Faceless Men Unmasked. You are going off topic. Abbott has nothing to do with ALP party matters.

I am critical of Labor because this government is deserving of serious critisism. I do not see the Liberal supporters here squealing, as you put it, because you critisise Abbott, but it is reasonable they make corrections and counter arguement.

You certainly do make critisisms of some aspects of the ALP, but that is your choice. You say not one Liberal supporter airs any wrong doing of their side. Perhaps they are better at keeping their family differences 'in house'. Perhaps if they are unhappy with another member or leader, or some proceedual party matter, they settle it within the party. If I were a member, that is what I would do. No point in giving the opponants free kicks. Airing ones dirty laundry in public is best avoided.

Whether it be Labor or Liberal, the parliamentry members cannot do that. If a challenge to leadership is to be made it must be kept quiet untill the time and this may come as a shock to those outside the parliament. Remember the media speculation about Howard and Costello and Hawke and Keating. See Rainiers thread.

As far as seat nominations go, I agree with you, the best should be selected irrespective of gender, union or faction affiliation. Those that are smart do that, not to do so is handicapping the party they belong to.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/editorials/ugly-alp-powerbroker-politics/story-e6frg71x-1226505613429
I am no fan of the Australian.
In truth it from its foundation has been nothing if not the mouth piece of its owner.
But agree with the link.
Banjo, well it must be said, you are totally biased and unlikly to let the truth sneak past that bias.
I challenge, yes have seen your list, straight out of Abbittism, constructed untrue, and mostly rubbish, about the ALP
I need not tell some, even Liberal voters,but your partys troubles are as deep as the ALPs
I do not want to be further diverted, hidden in Labors broken system, Union Power Brokers owning my party, you will find the reason we seem to have had more criminals and, yes sex offenders.
Any union member will know at least one union head PUSHED aside, into Parliament, to get rid of them from the union.
Real failures promoted?
20% in unions! if union heads left the ALP to run its self, and concentrated on membership of unions,instead of raising fees to compensate for falling membership.
The ALP could breath and grow.
As hopeful as some feel today, the polls tell me Gillard is marching my party to a near death experience.
Those who installed her are as guilty as the NSW SCUM.
Banjo, are you aware just how few policy's Abbott has? you should look its very dark and black over your shoulder.

As a Green I must say we are the only political party that elects all candidates by a plebiscite of the membership. The process is for all who seek political office regardless of whether they are a sitting senator or someone running for the local council. All prospective candidates must face a ballot, even if they are the only nomination, members are given the opportunity to vote 'no support'. A nominee must address the membership as to why the are standing and what they stand for, and they must be prepared to face questioning from the membership before the ballot can take place.
The 'Faceless Men' of the Labor Party are still firmly in control. Here in NSW we like to refer to them as the 'Sussex Street Mob'. a recent example of their handy work was the by-election for the 'safe' Labor seat of Heffron where a deal was hatched between the Keneally's and Hoenig the former 60 year old mayor of Botany to raise Ben Keneally's political profile this deal was endorsed by the 'Sussex Street Mob'. The big losers in all this were the taxpayers of NSW who had to fork out 1/2 a mill for a bt[election that was unnecessary if Hair Do Keneally had stuck to her word and served a full 4 year term.
As for the sacking of Penny Wong from the number one spot in SA in favor of some union hack, I'm not surprised. Given that Penny is one of the few shining lights in the Federal ALP. Being both knowledgeable and articulate and serving as a minister with some distinction. All that counts for nothing when it comes to ALP party politics.

Paul while much of what you say is true I am unsure standing for a seat on the Greens ship Titanic has me wondering.
Is it a threat or a promise?
See Neville Nobody has stood a side in SA.
First can he do that? after his bully boys put him in the place he both wanted, then won,can he over rule conference?
Well he is a power broker/union head so must not be held to account.
Clearly my Liberal/Conservative, and their Pup, National party opponents are not posting here.
Waiting as quick as I can for their thread *problems within the coalition*
Still ten posts in a thread with merit are worth 30 in lets flog them threads.
Paul sorry about my views on Greens.
Sorry to offend you.
But imagine, just for the sake of it, Greens by passing what increasingly looks like their coalition partner Abbottism, and lets us use Malaysia.
AND IT WORKS?
How much better for your party to be seen acting for majority wishes.

OK had our run, waiting still,fast as I can, for the Liberal thread.
Hard slog, bad mouthing every thing the ALP and half of Australia ever did, they will come however, wonnt they?
So hate wasting time,thought I would get it started.
* Things that may concern Liberal voters
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
*Abbott,s big new tax on business to fund middle and high income mother hood
* up to ,maybe more than, $100.000 [six month paid parental leave for a child birth
3 kids= 300.000 what a Baby Bonus!
*Abbott,s climate change calls for same reduction as Labor, we pay,all of us, growing more trees than we have land for,be prepared to grow ten trees on your roof.
*Abbottism plans to cut funds for education/health/Pensions yet still wants to give the above middle class welfare.
Far be it for me to continue, it was only a prompt, if the lads can draw them selves away from the lets kick the Labor can, look at the great still steaming heap of policy's, just say no to every thing, we may see we are electing a super storm of negativity and noncore promises.

OK point taken.
We are not going to talk about that knew we would not, have been asking for some one to take it on from 2005 here.
We see however SOG reminding us Labor are socialist and its supporters? one step up from scum.
Arjay complains of tax cuts to the bottom level of income earners.
So my last effort
* Do we talk of the Victorian MP under investigation.
*The QLD lady and her sons current adventures in that Parliament?
*The internal bickering over wheat
Internal strife over Abbott,s Abbottism, negativity?
*Are we interested in the truth? Nehru was not part of the UNHCR agreement Abbott,s Rabbits demand for Malaysia, when Howard used it.
*Past three leaders of the Liberal party planned a price on Carbon?
Please, I understand, it is only a thought, that some one among those willing to flay the skin of half Australia,s back for voting Labor may, just, want to talk.
About if not Liberal thoughts, how they issued the HALOS.
My biggest fear?
IF the Liberals return to Liberalism true liberal, not the blend of American Republican tea party and Abbottism, Labor weighted down by half witted power brokers may be out of office until death.

Belly,
You are right about one thing, I am biased now. Not usually, but because I want to be rid of the present government, I will not comment on faults the Libs may have.

So I am not surprised that the liberal supporters here decline to comment on your alledged shortcomings of the opposition. With an election about 12 months away, or sooner, the Lib supporters would be silly to engage on any internal problems.

Frankly, I do not mind if you, Latham, Richardson, Mackew or others publicly highlight Labors faults. All goes to show just how incompedent the present lot are. The more that are kicked out at the next election, the better.

Banjo you have given me another win.
You need not tell me you are biased the word however is not descriptive enough.
Tell me, is it OK that some GIBBERISH is being pushed against Labor, every new poster brings his/her wheel barrow loaded with it.
But not one of you, thinks improvement is needed from your side?
I can not goto a forum biased toward Labor, it is counter productive.
Not a lefty site.
But question my reason for returning here time and again.
Some good posters are gone few of us lefty Labor Scum remain.
Unfortunately current trends are this site is getting away from open debate to one sided, feeling it too.
IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND MY CLAIMS ARE TRUE? best leave it.

Last words on this subject
During my time here my posts highlighting the faults in my party, its leader.
My union movement, and SOME Unions have seen me launch threads well in to double figures, highlighting wrongs on my side.
And at least ten challenges to my opponents, to tell of the faults on their side.
It is true, some may not like it, folk like Lexi, and other left of center, even center voters, have left.
True too, that for now, things change, we are out numbered, not by genuine Liberals putting considered views, they exist, but by some who should avoid politics, have little understanding.
I KNOW constantly say, my party can not win , not unless Gillard goes.
I know constantly cut life time ties by saying it, my party MUST BE SET FREE FROM UNION POWER BROKERS.
Even those I hold in the highest regard Bill Shorten.
I too know, hold your horses! it is this Labor scum bags right to an opinion!
Abbott Hocky Pyne, are unfit to hold high office.
And that so very many supporting Abbott are unaware, truly,how very shallow the man and his policy's are.
Last post the defeat of Gillards lost soles, following her is lost,Liberals as in Victoria and other states,will fall in to a hole.
The recent standard of debate has done nothing to hold both sides of the house to account.
And much to insult half of this country.
For thinking differently than some here, some clearly do not think at all.

I'm looking for an article or graph that shows, how the voting power of the unions makes up the ALP, i.e. CFMEU controls 20% of the votes, regular members 10% that type of thing, particularly interested in the Federal structure. Have been googling for 20 mins, lots of references but can't find an overall picture.
Thank you

ThePhil.
Well reading this thread may have helped.
It is a fact, that the so called faceless men of the years 1945 till about 1972, mostly came from the union movement.
I am unhappy you call the filth CFMEU A Union.
As a unionist I see them as a gang of thugs not a union.
It is true, more informed commentators on politics will know, until recently, as said over and again in this thread.
60 in every hundred at party conferences, HAD TO BE UNION.
Figure is now 50 in a hundred.
A by law still exists, but is ignored, that union membership is a must to speak at conference.
On the opposing side, dressed up in their HALOS big business like Mr Palmer are seen sharing the lolly,s out to those who obey orders.
I welcome you but warn you make take a dislike to me.
I vote Labor am ex union official, and value truth.
Welcome.

That's OK everybody hates me at the moment I'm a retailer.
I've got the gist, even read a big article about how so many members gives the union so many votes and they pay dues per member, but I'd love to see a graph with rough overall figures, pie chart would be excellent. Then you could get a feel who has the influence.

And I mean union by union, i.e. 20% votes MIsc workers, 10% TWU. Or does such a graph not exist?

http://afr.com/p/opinion/abbott_must_spell_out_policies_ATtuT9a8anOxUAknZzGmVO
For give me Phil feeling a bit like a boat arrival.
Will expand on your question soon.
First the link.
I have no doubt it is one of the better links I have ever posted.
I am up to my chin in pain, I from Labors right, have been confronted by the past acts of my own faction.
No easy task, current investigation, will leave me naked in a forum increasingly unable to see any wrongs in Liberal Conservative Tea Party ranks.
Not defending the filth, well aware the NSW lice are gone, but the smell, even under a good and honest man, Robo, will linger.
Weird bloke me, many even on my side will tell you, my demand sees to that.
I demand and end to blindness, on both sides.
A return to accountability, maybe building a new prison, it cwould need two wings and to be big, to house bent politicians.
I know this hung Parliament is not good for us all, and that BOTH SIDES should be ashamed.
Too that some here are throwing mud in only one direction.
It above all, is that part of our population, willing to except less than good conduct from the team they follow, who in the end are the real problem.
Sponsoring the filth.
Union numbers next.

The Phil Union left is far worse than Parliamentary left,bar the ex union bloke from great Britain.
I oppose the union left.
Yes numbers of members, who pay affiliation fees , some do not know this, breaks down at conference as representing those numbers.
A group including the contents of a fleet of VW Combi vans from the north shore, gather at one end of the Sydney town hall.
CFMEU ex boss often wearing his Che shirt!
Picture of the gent dead on a table, build more tables!.
Left trosky to just unaware, trot up to the mike and tell us how good they are.
The right has the numbers every time and out votes them every time.
Now once I thought, not having much respect for leftist unions,that was good.
But from the right,that certainty they own the party, has come the worst power brokers and thieving betrayers, of both my party and its reason to exist.
Never fear, if it takes our impending near death to fix it.
You can forget the left, us from the right can destroy Labors chances without help.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/lnp-calls-police-on-own-highpowered-member-20121102-28nx6.html
We will not talk of this link.
It is about very high powered LNP person in QLD, under investigation by the police, at the request of his own party.
An illness exists, not new, we Saw it with Sir Robin Askin, Liberal Premier of NSW.
To a lessor but damning degree from Neville Wran, NSW Labor Premier.
Terry Lewis QLD Knight and Police commissioner.
Poor old Joe, watch the defenders flock, AT BEST to foolish to know what was happening, if you wish to be super generous.
POWER unchallenged power CORRUPTS.
Far easier to tramp on the ALP, a some times deserved trampling, mostly just screaming denial of the facts here.
Than ask * because they are my team are their crimes forgiven*?
Do I/we want better governance or just our governance?

Belly,
Its move over Milton, Eric's on his way. There is a new NSW Labor candidate for the Long Bay branch, non other than former roads minister and treasurer Eric Roozendaal. If you want a cheap car Eric will have a word with his good buddy Eddie Obeid, who in turn will talk to his mate a knuckle drager who goes by the name of Rocco Triulcio. Rocco being the great guy he is will sell you a car for 10 grand less than he paid for it. Things are getting rather crowded in the Labor wing at Long Bay. I suspect there will be a few more Labor luminaries eating porridge before too long. Belly any chance the 'Hair Doo' might join them.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/roozendaal-car-deal-to-avoid-fire-sale-20121102-28ob0.html

Paul, well SNEERED! I agree and have said so very often here, as you know.
30% of NSW ALP voters knew and did not man the booths or vote for the rabble.
Evidence power brokers are powerless in the voting booths.
Obied is, in truth I flatter the filth by not saying just what he is.
One of two power brokers who held the private parts of half my party and ran us in to the ground.
HATED by far more than me.
Lets talk, once we could, let us too leave our biases out side.
Yes the greens repel me.
Yes Labor does it for you.
In matters like the once head of the right, the dirty bloke getting a dirty car from some one far worse than dirty.
I think we both want to see the end, FOREVER, of such filth from politics.
I work for that forever accountability constant improvement, READ MY THREAD HERE.
We share, surely the view there have been many Sir Robin Askins, Many Neville Wrans.
TOO MANY
Your mob did a triple reverse pike [read their words on poky reform]
Just maybe, a hint? recent decimating loss in the ACT are seeing a more flexible greens.
Tell you what! duck in and get them to by pass Abbott and pass Malaysia and you can have my preferences, ah, no sorry pulling your leg, give us that but no way I can keep that promise.

Belly,
We Greens are not Labor's enemy, if we have grabbed 20% of the votes of (former) Labor supporters, its because your party has lost their trust. These people have a social conscience and with the strong influence of the Labor right the 'fair go for the battler' policies that Labor once held to be near and dear have evaporated in favor of populism which the likes of The Silver Bodgie espoused. Populism will gain you short term support, but in the long term it costs, a loss of direction and a loss of principle. you end up standing for nothing. This is exactly what has happened to the ALP.
Unfortunately the people I have a dig at you about are not Labor people, they are nothing more than criminals and should be treated as such.
You being an old time Labor man, answer on question honestly for me. Do you think great Labor leaders, men like Ben Chifley, John Curtin, Jack Lang and Gough Whitlam would have countenanced support from the likes of a Slipper or Thompson, no matter how the parliament was hung? My answer is not for a minute.

Paul first and clearly beyond doubt you are haveing your self on about 20%
The rest has been proved both true and counter productive.
Yes Labor has moved.
But consider this, honestly, would and of those great men be able to turn enough voters to such policy,s today to even get close to being elected.
Do not dispare about my posting the truth, about the filth, not party is not in need of that little Roman riding on the Chariot telling the current hero, you are not a God.
Those, in any party, demanding the dirt be swept under the carpet, and they exist in all teams, betray the party.
I need not swap insults about greens, no one does it better than them, self inflicted wounds.
20% was a grin, watch the next federal election, Bell curves have sharp drop offs once you near the edge.

Belly, a little bit of simple maths for you. I never claimed 20% of the total voters would vote Green and not Labor. Based on the latest Newspoll. Labor 33% Greens 10% which gives a total of 43. 10 as a percentage of 43 is, wait for it. 23%. Allowing for a bit of a drift a round figure 20%. I claim 20% of voters who would have given Labor their first preference, now give it to the Greens.
ARE YOU THE NUMBERS MAN FOR THE LONG BAY BRANCH OF THE ALP?
I didn't think I would have to spell it out for you, but seems I should have.

Paul good morning, hope you enjoyed greens conference.
Parking all those VW combi,s, all 4 of them, must have been hard.
Understand the crowd got close to a thousand.
But 555 came to protest against your mob.
I think next year you should book conference in a smaller venue, looked like two chook,s trying to fill a whole egg battery.
Enjoy your retribution on me, for accurately forecasting your party,s future.
Such is life the good and gentle Ned said, near here 11/11 Day the big bloke got knifed, Ned was hung, and ww1 ended.
So too is the greens Waterloo

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/obeid-lobbied-minister-over-family-company-20121109-293ec.html
EVERY Australian should read this link.
We should note it comes from the past.
But that the smell, the power and influence lingers on.
I have fought, with all my power, very limited to see Tripodi and Obeid unmasked.
Both played a leading roll in the very near death of the NSW ALP Right *Center Unity.
And the very near death of the ALP its self.
No two family's deserve the current unmasking more.
For interstate readers Mark Arbib, see his wifes rolling this link.
Lead the NSW right/Sussex street, destruction.
THEN went to Canberra, as a reward and took a seat.
He then coordinated , yes again,the Rudd knifeing.
If you think that is the end think again.
He has been head hunted, by James Packer!
And over saw the granting, by both party,s,a gift to Packer.
The new casino licence could have bought NSW $120 million dollars! it was free!
Now many including greens trolls target my party and me.
Yet I too have targeted my party, for the last 5 years in NSW.
The danger is we fight each other Lib/Lab while power and privilege rorts our country.
ALP past needs a new prison to fix, but watch the power at work, few will see the inside.

Belly as a Labor stall welt, I'm sure you will want to invest heavily in the Joe Tripodi Ghanian Gold Scam, if gold is not your bag, maybe the Russian Jet Fuel Scam will take your fancy, then again there is The Lawn Cemetery Scam. How do they make you rich, very simple, 'you simply give Joe all your money'.

Sorry I've been mis-spelling scheme but since I have already posted I can't correct it.

Paul you and I could once talk without anger.
I do not feel anger now, but you clearly do.
You got more than one word wrong there, but it does not matter.
Interesting however.
Are you an Emu? maybe Kangaroo?
See they can not walk backwards, but you could have, to fix any word you knew was miss spelled.
You seem about my age.
Did you just become a green or like me read and study politics for years to become who we are now?
Do you understand your current stance, a deeply entrenched spite is what I see.
Spite at the truth, Australia always was going to reject the greens.
It has turned you from debate to insult, from considered thought to stone throwing.
My expressed views on greens, as unpalatable as you find it, has always been shared by over 80% of this country.
Recent leadership changes and the actions of those leaders enrages most of this country.
Are you going to haunt Labor voters with old country party style slurs forever?
I see you as friend to those you have spent your life fighting, but no threat, Labor will rebuild in NSW it is well under way, a one term Liberal government is a real chance, near sure in Victoria.
And even QLD is going to see massive return, but not a win to Labor.
GREENS? if they used the power they have, very, very, soon, to do what Obama will, give ground they could be saved.
But they will not, the condition is terminal, like you they would rather abuse every one else than even consider the thoughts of the most.

Belly, firstly don't take what I say too seriously much is a bit of a stir, I don't take anyone on here seriously including me. Nothing earth shattering is going to happen because of what is posted on the forum.
I know you would not 'invest' in a JT scheme, or the Long Bay branch is the ALP's largest. I know you don't know how Milton is. All a bit of a gee up.
To answer your questions:
Did you just become a green or like me read and study politics for years to become who we are now?
I been a member of the NSW Greens all of this century, I was a member of the ALP for part of last century. I was born not long after Pig Iron Bob become PM, so looks like I must be an old fart. Yes I've read lots of political stuff, but my political philosophy has been formulated though the influence of people and my own life experience, my old man was a staunch union Labor man. Been a union rep, have many good friends in the ALP

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/labor-moves-to-suspend-obeid-over-shocking-allegations-20121112-29830.html
The link is a support for my years long campaign to get the rot out of my NSW ALP.
I like John Robo Robinson, I trust him too.
But he is pulling the chain!
Any one informed about politics knew years ago Obied and his familly are criminals and vermin.
Ian Macdonald? come surely he is worse even than them?
I dealt with the grubby thing, he is hopefully going to prison.

Belly, Eric Rissole must be upset, all he got was $10k off a car (well that's so far come out). Eddie garbed millions thanks to THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY. Do you seriously think voters in NSW should put Labor back in power. Vote for honesty vote Green.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/11/15/ghost-of-nsw-government-past-may-haunt-gillard/
A link from a pro ALP source.
Yet it mirrors my thoughts.
I disagree with the expressed thoughts on Robo, he fought the sale of electricity as hard as any one.
But hidden within this link, the current prop Gillard up team.
Is this
rather than say we got it wrong.
They are planning to take over the party post an election drubbing.