DP has it come to you?
That post could have been about?
YOU!
I find the use of the term lefty offensive, why should I not find your generalization far right that too.
Your posts are put to generate a focus on? you.
She did not lie, agreed, but if our Julia had wings of gold and was presented to use by a bloke with a Halo on his head, she would not win an election.

To sum up what we have after 9 pages:

1 There was a solemn promise made to the electorate and it was broken within days, thus the promise was a lie. The point at which it became a lie is under dispute.

2 DP and other left whingers are contesting that a strict definition of a liar is one who at time of making a promise knows that it is false. And as no one can conclusively know someone else's mind, no one can ever be called a liar, and the word is thus redundant.

3 Myself and others (referred to as right wingers,) capable of forming rational opinions without a presiding judge, prefer to determine Gillard's intent based on her actions (i.e. the speed at which she abandoned her pledge to the voters) and her subsequent declaration that she always intended to tax carbon.

I and most Australians, based on item 3 above, and the scarcity with which Labor's promises are acted on, simply understand that we were lied to by Gillard and Labor and will judge their promises at the next election by the yard stick they have carved for themselves.

Hi Belly,
Nice to be back posting on OLO after quite some time of other distractions.
Having read a few of the posts on this topic, I am drawn to the fact that Julia Gillard lied......show me a political leader who hasn't?
Given that our Prime Minister was a first time Female, I think that this first time Politician, made the mistake of trying to please all people all of the time, a natural mistake with first timers.
I believe that of late, she has come into her own, and now she is starting to find her feet, and appearing to be quite comfortable with her role of PM., the shameful side of Politics, and I refer to Tony Abbott, has done nothing but blunder his way through so-called politics without checking his facts. The only time we see him in the public arena is laying bricks, packing boxes in vegetable markets and so on. Please God do not make Tony Abbott become PM. He is verbally inept, he obviously does not like capable female politicians, and really all he has achieved, in my view, is behaving like a recalcitrant schoolboy. His knowledge of political mores is disgraceful, and I really don't think he would ever make a PM.
I believe that our current PM who hasn't really had the experience in politics has done a sterling job, and frankly I hope she is able to stand for another term. I suspect that she is the butt of jokes, because most males resent a female politician. Lets face it, it is not about Gender, it is about capability, and I suspect the the incumbent PM possesses more capability that the alternative PM. By the way, I didn't vote for either of the Major parties.

In answer to Shadow Minister's "attempted" pointa:

1 SM has redefined the meaning of "lie" to mean "broken promise". SM = FAIL.

2 Not knowing whether a specific person lied, does NOT mean the word "lie" is redundant and that nobody can be called a liar. SM needs to study English comprehension a bit more. SM = FAIL.

3 As has already been explained to SM (and of course ignored by him because he doesn't like the truth) ... the speed of Labor's post election backflip was because it was required in order for them to form government. This doesn't mean that Labor "lied" about the promise when it was made ... it means they changed their position. Duh! It was public "pre" election knowledge that Labor always intended to price carbon. Why was it public knowledge? Because they said so themselves. Gillard then said a "fixed" price would not happen (meaning it would STILL be priced). The "fixed" price commitment was then broken post election, in order to gain government. If Labor had been able to form government in it's own right, we would NOT have had a "fixed" carbon price. But SM doesn't see this. Why? He obviously considers it not politically correct for him to see this. SM = FAIL.

SM has been incapable of proving that our Prime Minister specifically "lied".

I'm still waiting for any of the personal abusers here of our Prime Minister, to prove that the Prime Minister "lied" regarding her commitment.

So far, not one person has been able to do that.

Not one!

Prerogative is the word. It's the PM's right as a female to change her mind at any time, or at amy stage. And if you don't comply you are in big trouble. So where is the problem, if any.
The only ones that seem to have a problem are Abbott worshipers. I would rather think of the welfare of the nation before i gave anything to the one man noalition team.
Has there been a foot in mouth today as yet.

DP,

A Broken promise is a lie. Here are some definitions of the noun lie that you might have missed:

- a statement that deviates from or perverts the truth.
- An untrue statement;
- Lack of conformity to truth or fact; inaccuracy.

You cannot argue that Juliar's promise was untrue, deviated from the truth, etc.

Learn to read, I said that your definition of the word Liar made it redundant, not that was redundant, neither did I mention the word lie.

Logic is also not a strong point of yours, if Labor always intended to price carbon, then Labor did not change its position with the hung parliament, which ipso facto make Julia Gillard a Liar when she made the promise. You can't have it both ways.

Fixed or floating prices on carbon paid to the ATO are both taxes on carbon and thus carbon taxes.