Below is some commentary in the Tele this morning, which I think is well written.

This may be interesting to those that are critical of the Murdoch press.

I do not agree with the authors but at least they get opportunity to put their views and they have done so in a reasonable manner.

Just thought OLO posters may be interested to read

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/tired-of-the-violence-and-stupidity/story-e6frezz0-1226476804604

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/tired-of-the-violence-and-stupidity/story-e6frezz0-1226476804604

Dear Banjo,

I thought that the following website should also be
included in your thread on the "Islamic Response."
I should be read by everyone taking part in the discussion
of this topic:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-incredible-muslim-hulk-proves-to-be-no-friend-of-islam-either-20120916-260e8.html

Lexi,
Yes, here is another from the SMH. I did not see until after posting.

Note they are written by Islamists

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/hes-my-brother--why-angry-muslim-youth-are-protesting-in-sydney-20120918-264l1.html

cont'd ...

Here's another one that may be of interest:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3592170.htm

Dear Banjo,

Yes they are written by Islamists - but moderate
Islamists - not fundamentalists. Therein lies
the difference.

I posted Lexi,s first link in the other thread and many more.
Afraid after years of open minded study of the Koran, observation of actions world wide I have come to an understanding.
Like the Church of my birth, very much like the Catholic Church of the past.
Control sometimes falls in to the hands of the very wrong.
AT LEAST CONSIDER America is hated because its creeping culture TV film ext, are taking the power away from angrey little men with towels on their heads.
Look at every war America went in to in the middle east_for every hater a thank you exists.
And sadly, you only have to look, for every we are sorry yoi read you will see the but.
Only from within the Muslim community, no place else, can this be fixed.
Try as I do still, being friendly , walking in to a Muslim store in a place I once knew, your gday mate is returned with a snarl.

Dear Belly,

Do only Muslim shops give you a rude greeting?

Then you've led a very sheltered life my friend.

Thanks for those links Lexi and Banjo, I think most intelligent people know that there are good and bad in all religious and non-religious groups of people.
Muslims are no different from any other of us mere mortals!

We musn't fall into the ignorant, bigoted trap of tarring all people in one religious group with the same feathers.

If there really is a God or Allah, I am sure they would not advocate hatred or murder amongst the humans they are supposed to have created.
The violence and hatred noted in religious books like the bible and the Koran were written by humans, not Gods...

Dear Suse,

We're all thrown curve balls in the form of people
and situations we're tempted to judge. How otherwise
would we grow but by growing through such challenges.

If Islam is so delicate it needs this level of protection from criticism and lampooning it is dead in the water. Their response to the video is more stupid than the video itself. If this is the fruit of multiculturism we are just as stupid for allowing this collection of ill-informed bigots and misogamists into Australia.

So true Lexi.
We are all certainly going to 'grow' a lot after the latest trying events!
Especially after the last comment...sigh.

Suseonline >> I think most intelligent people know that there are good and bad in all religious and non-religious groups of people.<<

Suse please give me an example of the "BAD" in other than the Muslim religion carrying on in this manner. A little further to that could you show me the "BAD" in any ethnic groups that calls Australia home behaving in a manner close to this sort of berserk anti everybody except themselves way.

They are simpletons seeking a direction or cause Suse, much like those who attempt to justify their behaviour. The Egalitarian defending the irrevocably Repressive, a suspension of reality to accommodate an ingested doctrine, it is suicide for the humanitarians and the rest of us.

The moderate Muslims can't control them as then they would be targeted for a real short back and sides. In any case the berserks are already on the fringe of the religion....they are to the Muslims what Zionists are to Judaism. But change comes from the fringe not the greater whole, the whole usually submits so have no faith in the platitudes of the moderates talk fest after each issue arises.

In truth this is not a religious or ethnic matter, it is a police matter. Once again our government fails us for PC reasons at the end of the day.

I think the federal government should have the same intolerance with people attempting to incite violence based on belief as they do for organised crime.

I hope that I am protected by the government for disagreeing with certain aspects of Islam as I am from violence against me based on negative opinion about bikies.

If I say Islam is flawed and Muslims are being used by guilt - as are Christians - to act in a less than civilised manner, I should be actively protected from having my head chopped off.

I dread the day someone is taken out like that by fundi's in Australia. If that happens, we need to stomp them out like a pest.

Dear SOG,

Riots have been part and parcel of Australian history.
ranging from race riots, prison riots, religious
conflicts (Protestand versus Catholic groups) and a whole
range of issues over time - centuries in fact.

All you have to do is Google the subject for yourself.
Try:

Race Riots
Racial Violence in Australia
Riots in Australia
Civil Disorder
List of Riots in Australia
Crime in Australia

Just for starters.

You don't want to be placed in the same category as
the other internet trolls, zealots, and radio jocks,
who are leading the way with the questionable
practice of stereotyping an entire group of people
on this issue. We expected more from you.

And here's one website to get you started taken from
our own OLO:

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=1989

If there really is a God or Allah, I am sure they would not advocate hatred or murder
Suseonline,
If there were a God or Allah we wouldn't have religions.

While I found the Islamic responses interesting, my views have not changed.I still think we should stop further immigration of muslims so to keep the problem at a manageable level.

Muslims have shown that they do not integrate with our society and are not prepared to give even a little to get on with others.

Islam is more than just a religion, it is a complete way of life and their total culture. As a society we bend over backwards to accomodate their wants and needs but they will not give an inch in return. Islam, for them, comes well before anything else. National feeling for Australia is well down the list.

I wonder why they would go and protest about a silly film, or cartoons, made on the other side of the world, which we had nothing to do with. I wonder why a mother would take her kids and take pics of them holding a placard calling for beheadings. There were other kids there as well shouting chants. Begining an education of how to hate?

Then the youths were showing their utter contempt for everthing non muslim. Some say the youths are 'disaffected' and I ask about what? They have the same opportunities as everyone else.

Next day there was an 8yo girl, at a different event, calling on kids for a jihad and wanting the introduction of Sharia law. She is too young to even know the meaning of her words. Whatever are these kids taught at home or at their private schools?

There are many examples of anti social conduct and it seems the moderates are the minority or too scared to bring the radicals under control.

We should act now before muslim numbers increase further. Like Europe and UK we are making a rod for our own back.

God Lexi my belle, you do read what I say; I suppose my advocacy for the aboriginal peoples has been noted. Without elaborating too much I have a personal connection to Eveleigh Street from a very young age. I went to school 5 mins away and grew up with aboriginal aunties, uncles, brothers and sisters.

But the glaring difference in the historic Australian civil disobedience you example and what happened last weekend is that last weekend the protesters were reacting to protests that started overseas. Regarding a ridiculous video issued from overseas.

They took the opportunity to display how insular they are and how alien they view us and our civil authorities and that is the reason they gathered and fought, their pretext is exterior to motive. They had no grievance with Australia yet they became aggressive and belligerent at the drop of a hat. As far as I can see the Muslims who marched and fought and demanded beheadings of their protagonists are a million miles away in motive to any of the civil disobedience we have thus far experienced and you my dear exampled.

Australia in general is accepting and malleable, these people are not. They despise us, not don’t like, they despise us. As I said to Suse this is a policing issue, not a religious one. I have not kept count, but intermittently over the past decade reports of Middle Eastern Australians being locked up in a Middle Eastern country roll around. Each time I think, why do we let them preach subversion here when they get locked up back home for doing it, before deportation back to stupid Australia.

Brute force is the only savior of the pacifist, surprising but true.

Dear SOG,

I think that there's a great deal that's not understand
about Islam and Muslims and many people buy into the
stereotypical images which are not based on reality.
Concerning the riots in Sydney - I'll again ask you
to have a read of the following websites that I quoted
earlier - but I'll list them for you here. It may clarify
a few things for you:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-incredible-muslim-hulk-proves-to-be-no-friend-of-islam-either-20120916-260e8.html

And:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3592170.htm

Lexi I read your link to Waleed the first time around.

We know that the wider Muslim community always apologises on behalf of the few.

I noted that Waleed conceded the behaviour was offensive and then finished with this summation:

>> One that's not about how we should be speaking out to defend our prophet and ourselves. One that's more about whether we can speak about anything else<<

He is inferring that free speech was stifled, that is the summation from this lawyer advocate, they are right, the rest are wrong. Bleeding heart Arad lawyers, save me, toughen up. Then this one again from Waleed the lawyer.

>> This is the behaviour of a drunkenly humiliated people: swinging wildly with the hope of landing a blow, any blow, somewhere, anywhere<<

Humiliated with exactly the same benefits and negatives that his fellow Aussie pleb has.
Swinging wildly with placards that demand beheadings….Give me a break Lexi dear, I can’t suspend the reality like others can.
TBC

The cops have gone softly softly with Arab criminals and Muslim zealots because of PC. I recall the NSW Premier telling his driver to “run the bastards over” in relation to anti LBJ protesters lying in front of the motorcade, and we were predominantly Muslim free then, they were Anglo kids.

Then this from Randa on the other link

>> I think people have the right to protest, but I personally don't feel that this did - that this served any purpose except to validate the stereotypes that most people hold about Muslims.<<

Once again deflecting the issue to a spinny free speech issue. They gathered, they marched, they assaulted police and freaked out the plebs doing their shopping. That seems like they got their message across, they had their day on the soapbox.

I may march down to Canberra with a “behead Gillard and Swan” placard…it’s acceptable; I will even line up a little one for the toddlers.

Sorry Lexi I don’t buy any of it, and for the record again, it is not a Muslim issue, it is a police issue, they do not put up with that sort of behaviour in the Middle East, not unless the rabble is doing the govt’s bidding.

I reckon Paul Sheehan of the SMH has it pretty right this morning.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/victimology-airbrushes-oppression-against-own-20120919-266wc.html

Banjo I posted that on the first thread.
Not sure splitting the thread in to three is for the best.
I do know, in my view, an extremist element, re-enforced by good folk trying to see only good, has taken that thread.
I just must say, let us hope for evolution to fix this worrying trouble,along with education free of bigotry.
But stay on gard for reality to hit us in the face like a brick, some third generation Australians hate us.
Wise and honest politicians would fix it no matter the costs.

Belly,
How about this speech. Do you agree? All governments are now looking to save expenditure. The ideology of MC is flawed so this is a good way to save funds.

Note. I have not looked for some years so I do not know what the current spending by fed or state government is on MC.

C:\Users\ADMIN\Documents\Peter Phelps MLC - 18-09-2012 (Proof) - NSW Parliament.mht

How would they 'fix it'Belly?
Islamic people have settled here now, and many are good citizens, just like all the other immigrant groups here in Australia.

All the Government can do is maintain law enforcement and punish those who break the law.

We can't just send all Muslims 'back to where they came from'.
We have to live with what we've got, and just get on with it.

Dear commentors. There does appear to be a life force which drives the natural order of the planet in which we exist. Call it as you will God, Allah or deny the concept out of hand. But, as has been pointed out religion is a man made construct and the fact that vast numbers of people over the centuries have embraced the fabric does not necessarily prove the legitimacy of any religion. This said, there is much wisdom to be extracted from religous philosophy.

My limited study of islam suggests that there is little in the koran to support violent activity as a response to perceived insults directed towards the prohpet or islam as a religion.

Muhammad's personal mission was to bring Arabs into the rightly guided family of Abraham. Muhammad was a ruler and was motivated to change the culture of the entrenched tribal way of life. He didn't entirely succeed.

The islamist movement has its roots firmly in seventh century tribalism. Islamist's claim, dishonestly,that the justification for their attitude to the rest of the world lays in the teachings of the koran, it does not. The evils besetting Arab communities are a hangover from tribalisim and only they can eliminate those.

The demonstrators in sydney were out of order in terms of what they presented in Sydney and owe an apology to the community. However if they were actually venting fury over the murder of millions of muslims and arabs during the west's ongoing military interventions in arab countries, I'm inclined to think they have a supremely valid point.
DEN71

Suseonline,
You asked how would they fix it.

Well, for a start they could stop muslim immigration. That would restrict their numbers and keep the problem within manageable levels.

Secondly they could completely dispense with the flawed ideology of multiculturalism which divides people into tribes.

Thirdly they could get a lot tougher with those that partake in the sort of behaviour we saw last Saturday. Also increase penalties for anti social behaviour generally.

We need to be honest with ourselves and acknowledge that, after 2-3 generations, some groups will never integrate and if we desire a cohesive society we will have to bar entry to members of those groups.

Banjo, we can't just say 'no more Muslims allowed in' and expect the rest of the world to understand!
If we think we have trouble with some radical Muslim citizens now, imagine how aggressive they would be if we said we don't want Muslims here anymore?
Even good, law-abiding Muslim/Australian citizens would be offended by that.

Imagine how annoyed predominantly Muslim countries would be with us, not to mention all the other countries who have thousands of Muslim refugees in camps there.

We wouldn't be welcome to trade with these countries, or travel, or do business with them etc anymore.
Oil is an important commodity right now.

Australia and Australian travelers would be in even more danger than Americans with these radical Islamists.

No, we have to think more clearly about a less extreme answer...

Susyonline your last post was good balanced and true.
Now I get a little weird.
Why would I think like this, am I getting a bit lost as I age?
No let me assure you I think not.
And believe what I say.
*We fix it*
By understanding if we do not some one will do it for us.
A new drive to research the roots of every religion, honestly done honestly reported.
INVENT one new religion, for everyone, give only it, any tax breaks or help,teach only it.
All men are brothers and equal invention.
Not a power but a leveler.
Then united in a few, no more than ten, generations we could progress.
Here is the weird bit.
Others are waiting,post ww 3 or a crisis, to do this, for total power total control.
Do not believe? OK but why do we teach evolution yet divide on lines of fairy tales unless it is of use to others to keep us divided.

Suseonline,
So you do not think we can stop muslims from coming here.

Why not? "We determine who comes to Australia......"

Other countries have selective immigration, I am told japan will not allow Koreans to be citizens and they do not appear to suffer from that. Or are you saying that muslims should be treated differently to others and we just let them do as they wish?

I now notice that i am not the only person calling for a stop to muslim immigration, it is coming from other quarters as well.

We certainly could introduce selective immigration if we desire to do so. My recomendation is for selection be based on culture. Those groups that have shown us they will not integrate and cause social unrest be excluded. These may not be all muslim. For example, I would exclude Croats and Serbs, all groups that practice FGM and those that force marriage. I would keep an eye on the Sri Lanken groups for exclusion, if their fighting continues.

There is no laws, except our own, that we have to accept all comers.

Banjo,

Don't stop there....

What about people from countries who invade other countries for unfettered access to resources under the guise of delivering democracy? What about people from cultures, who with the use of bombs and armory, destroy infrastructure, who kill and maim children and adults? What about people from countries who instigate long-term sanctions which result in malnutrition and poor health outcomes for the general population?

Hypocrisy much.

Yes indeed Banjo.

And in the interest of fair play, we would also exclude all Irish immigrants, just in case they had IRA links? The Spanish with possible links to their violent groups?

All British are out because of Argentina, and all Americans are out because of their actions in Iraq and Afganistan of course.

Australian Aboriginals will of course want ALL immigration stopped because no one has ever integrated well into the first culture of this land.

In fact, we should exclude ALL countries who have EVER had any violent tendencies against others.

There...all sorted!

Suse and Piorot,
Geez, youse blokes is tough, in fact xenophobic.

I think my proposals would promote a cohesive community or at least keep the problem manageable. If we enforce our laws and community standards.

If stronger measures are required, I was thinking of banning Kiwis, as payback for beating us at Rugby.

Lol Banjo, I assumed that banning Kiwis was already a given!

I think as long as we have strict laws that will manage any violent behaviours from anyone, then we will be ok.

i note the riot thread just keeps on going
but i switched off that ..long ago,..

and now am suss
on just who first picked the word.. '''RIOT"

sure
i saw a busted window

BUT RIOT COME ON!..i see more damage every friday/sat nioght from drunks

HOW MANY MISSILES GOT THROW
how many busted windows

how man dead?

riot
my butt*

OUG, seems you hang around in rough company.
6 cops hurt some badly 5 cars damaged.
Windows and a screaming mob intent on breaking in to America embassy.
Sorry but you are kidding.

It's hilarious how they're offended by Muhammad being portrayed in a rubbish *film* as violent, and to prove the film wrong they riot?

Way to go...

They're a bunch of whackjobs and we're going to need to take a harder line soon.