*The trick is how to keep them honest*

Well that is the point, Pelican. Power corrupts, without checks
and balances, be that in the Vatican, the union, in politics or
in business.

So the very reason why I sometimes defend business, is that I am
tired of this notion that business is bad, the poor workers,
unions are good, churches mean well and do good. Its basically
rubbish.

If it was up to me, all organisations which claim tax free status and
take money from the public, should be fully accountable for how that
is spent. Be that unions, churches, the Red Cross, the lot. Public
corporations have to disclose their figures, so why not the rest?

Only checks and balances at various levels will bring about change.

I find it is not possible on this subject to find common ground with many/yabby.
Yet Pelican [welcome back] may be closer to my views than most think.
I live for the union movement and my union.
Would do the job I did for no pay.
Yet in this thread, the HSU one, and many have not hidden my views.
Todays unions are better than yesterdays, we improve with less workplace warfare more better educated people.
But in my view fail, in personal relationships with our members.
When the AWU car stopped at a work site, for some it still is, we welcomed them as mates.
Union views some industry's are too hard is gutless.
And EVERY FRAUD or miss use of members funds should be put on shop.
But this thread could have been about DAILY FRAUD by bosses.
No super paid no compensation insurance believe me some bosses do it.
Yabby sees things I do not, a huge evil in every union and halos on the heads of true filth bosses.

This dispute will be a marker.
It has been coming for a very long time.
It may well see the CFMEU de registered, certain in my view.
It is strange the imported picket lines and whole event, at best for the union case is about personality's.
Firms owner vs a bloke yet to prove he has one.
It is not about working conditions, it is about the union using its membership as a weapon.

Thanks Belly.

Yabby I know that is why you defend business and I can understand your position. By contrast, I lean more towards defending employee rights, only because I think there is already greater power vested with business than in fairly powerless workforce. And no I don't equate unions necessarily with workers.

In fact I agree with your sentiments about accountability 100%. It is necessary if that elusive balance is to be achieved.

I will be proud forever to prove yabby,s view of unions is not always right.
In fact during the Belly,s Conspiracy thread I started, that event I took place in was used.
Few understand building construction is CFMEU ground unchallenged by my union.
Civil construction, and earthworks is two unions, CFMEU and AWU.CFMEU even took AWU to industrial relations court, intent on taking its coverage.
They lost, I gave evidence for AWU.
Unionism must, to survive and thrive, distance them selves from such as this.
Yabby our biggest civil construction firms to our smallest invite me to recruit on their jobs.
Then reward their workers with rises above those on offer.

*I lean more towards defending employee rights, only because I think there is already greater power vested with business than in fairly powerless workforce.*

Yes Pelican, but your mind seems to revolve around big corporations,
wheras small business employs most people. I personally have never
met a worker who lost money being a worker, they got paid. Yet I know
plenty of business people who lost their shirts, often through no fault of their own.

The thing is, if you want capital to create jobs, it will go where
it feels welcome. Make it impossible and they will leave. If you
want small business people to have a go, to create jobs, don't make life
impossible for them. Something like 4 out of 5 small businesses
go broke, for all sorts of reasons. Yet we need those people to
have a go and take a risk, or few people will have a job.

I know a number of people making great money as employees
and as long as they can cash in big time on their entitlements, they don't give
a figjam. Their attitude is that if people are so silly as to start
their own business, they can only blame themselves. So my point it,
if they did not, most Australian employees would be in deep trouble,
so we need to encourage entrepreneurship, they keep our economy
ticking, often work huge hours and really don't have all this power
that you think they have. The power is with the employees.