Police horses under attack, screams and the chant *workers united will never be defeated*
No doubt many will pin their views, some informed, some not on this story.
So why not me?, an ex combatant in the some times heat of Construction workplaces.
In truth I understand, know only too well, I am treading on the feet of my life time union mates.
But it has always been so, even as a member hidden in the crowd listening to my official talking on the stump.
My heart is linked to my brain, this issue does more harm to my movement thang ood.
To hell with solidarity, how can any thing eating away at my union movement deserve my protection?
I have fought radical unionism all my life, I was on leaving my job earlier than I had planned offered a job with this union, the Melbourne one.
More money, revenge on a bad boss, instant successes as membership came with me, all true.
But no way! after a lifeof standing in front of them? never.
I think, behind this issue is a demand straight out of the 1960s or 70s is that workers picked by the union, get jobs,then become site delegates.
If we get a run? much more to say, in defence of future much more moderate unionism.

My contribution comes in defense of the grate trade union movement ,of those that came before and those yet to come.
This union is the one that broke all the glass in a planned march to Parliament in the 1990,s.
Other unionists, who came to protest not riot left in orderly fashion at that point.
The NSW Builders Laborers Federation, so much for solidarity, was dereregistered and then swallowed up by this union.
Employing big men, not always brave, they started using strikes/riots/protests/ as recruitment tools.
And we started to see street marches flags flying, Brave Heart? no not at all.
Every one 0f us should note the fact is they distance workers from unions and bosses too.
I have sat in the room looking after my members interests in Civil construct and saw them, not unusual but the average for them, swear in the most awful way at female IR folk.
Seen them enter an office and kick every thing all over the floor.
I have shared consultations with site boss, returned to a mass meeting with them, and watched them report events that never took place
Civil construction saw their own members purge them, sick of needless hostility and lies they fled.
Now work choices forbade Union stickers on helmets, or shed walls.
Some firms reacting to militancy, some just because they can,still bar them.
Yet helmets are covered, indeed you can not walk on site without them, with stickers including the firms name site inductions first aid, a host more.
When challenged the boss says sticker effect the helmets work under impact, it is a safety issue.
No boss I ever knew tried to tell a union who could be the delegate.
Some do pick health and safety reps, maybe as insurance , health and safety for one union is a battering ram.
Average Australian worker wants to work, a few do not, a strike is the last spanner in the bag.
Unless your union is using you as its recruiter and advertising machine, this one does.

The firm involved had to close its Sydney site today.
And send the workers home on full pay, seems the sites locks, all of them, had super glue in them.
Gates could not be opened.
Pieces of ply have been falling from the site? so danger involved too.
The folk throwing them, it happens, may not be looking below first.
A good and honest union first action should be calm down the workers.
Take ten of them, not hand picked, to talk the issues out with the boss.

Dear Belly,

I'm not sure that I understand what's
going on with these guys and why such anger.

I am a member of a union, but
I've never been put in a position where I've
had to go on strike, and although I'm
sometimes frustrated when a union does its
job badly I support without reservation the right
of all working people to join together so as to
preserve and protect their livelihoods.

Of course unions need to be more snesitive to the
realities of modern economic conditions. Sectarian
attitudes and greed serve the cause of labour badly.
But the fact is, or so I thought, that Australia's
strike record has been improving in recent years.
So I don't know what the problem here is.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/unions-bestlaid-plans-may-come-back-to-bite-it--and-pm-20120829-250rm.html
Lexi behind the scenes, right out in front for those who understand, unions ALL SUFFER in matters like this.
My often quoted Unions there is a difference, is true.
But very few know it.
I have been on strike, after every action failed, and proudly.
I worked under the work choices law, the one this strike is said to be, but unlikely in reality, to be about.
I wanted it gone, but not without a watch dog.
The trade union needs to survive, it already has far more good unions than bad, but very few know that.
First thought for some is ALL Unions are involved.
I demand an end to ALL miss use of Unionists by Unions,funds, needless strikes, and the thought this warfare is productive.
The filth used in this link, is the way, but its worse these grubs speak to every boss, criminal!
I will name a grub as so, to his face, but only after plea for a hearing is ignored.
I am not concerned at the failure of the thread to be used, just happy to go on record demanding Australia find Australians to run Unions, and find them from the Rank and file.
Not The Rank and Vile.

Dear Belly,

Beautifully put and I fully agree.

All this union stuff is a bit of a worry, Belly. So tell me,
why does every second union official have a Scottish accent?

Yabby! give me a break mate! I agree, tell you why soon but please read this link.
http://m.smh.com.au/national/nsw-union-boss-denies-underworld-link-20120830-252gj.html
IT screams WHY, Mick Gatto!
Stand over man thug, mug criminal in every way, a LEACH on the backs of workers.
Yabby know this, Great Britain sends its unwanted still, they flock to become the better ones, Police or prison Gard's.
The worst know only too well, shouting and screaming, impresses the few.
Who become the army and push by black mail, the rank and file to obey.
It takes a Belly, not praise just honesty,to push to the front and let them have it! get right in to them, it works.
I have pulled two union sites to me, stopped radical actions then been threatened with death by this filth.
If you read my contributions all of them, you will see I am not holding back.
Do we all understand the Mafia turned American Unions in to criminal groups.
We know surely of the SCUM painters and d0ckers in Melbourne.
My union has its few fleas, but not many thugs not many criminals, this gangster union is on its last legs.
It will die, the day has come for my union to openly go for their throat, I did, with joy every day!
If unions be come criminal groups they die.
One Big Union! many branches well managed and POLICED, is the answer.
Do not ever brand us with this mob,
PS the NSW boss is, I have met him, a good bloke in the wrong union.

Yeah Belly, but its not just this union. Look at the HSU. These are
not the only ones.

The thing is, people yell and scream about corporations etc, but
there are good ones and bad ones. The same with unions. So I guess
my point is that its not all black and white and some unions are
certainly doing their share to stuff country, the moment they are
given a bit of power. When the construction unions had a proper
regulator looking over their shoulders, they had to behave. Your
Govt changes that under union pressure and now its a mess.

That is what happens when the unions run the Govt.

Yabby in a way your post HIGHLIGHTS why this issue is damaging_to every trade union, and by implication the ALP.
I the heart of that beast the HSU hides filth, some yet uncovered, I doubt these suit wearers are worth saving.
And offer no defense, in fact CRINGE at the near certainty more unions are like it.
My ALP/Union movement MUST not hide behind a once proud now damaging word SOLIDARITY.
It is the carpet we sweep the dirt under.
Always this union leads the destruction, proudly claiming to be this country,s most militant union.
At some point, LABOR/UNIONS must ask our selfs are we fair dinkum? do we think mum and dad in suburbia will except this?
Want this?
Maybe time for new Labor, not a further swing to the right, but a demand that those claiming to represent workers/battler are not in fact using them.
This morning on both these sites lies are being told to picketers.
Some know that but fear being bashed, even forced out of the construction industry, by opposing the filth.
BUT yabby, it is no excuse no defense not a plea for forgiveness, every industry has its maggots review Gina's words!
Unionists! the above is No reason to let the filth make Unionism a dirty word!
Join a union, not a criminal organization.

Yabby there are many in the union movement who would laugh at the comment they are having any influence on government. They are no more influential, probably less so, than the corporate sector in both ALP and LNP camps.

There has to be a balance and both the industry unions (eg. chambers of commerce and the like) and workers unions have a place in protecting the interests of their members. Both can go too far especially when the power balance is tipped in their favour (WorkChoices) and the union movement certainly of late have demonstrated a need for better audit practices. I have some faith that when the balance is tipped too far on one side the pendulum tends to swing back when events prove that too much power corrupts.

The deregistration of the BLF and scaling back of WorkChoices are good examples. With the current obsessions with growth, free trade and the like though, I fear it will take the pendulum a little more time to balance out the ideals of quality of life and wellbeing which have been pushed aside for man-made notions of productivity.

Oh Yabby, please don't get rid of the Scottish accents. :)

I skipped the influence unions have on government stuff.
Yabby if only you knew.
It is about zero.
Swan is a member of my union, Shorten too, believe, they vote as ordered
Some true slugs get elected and forget instantly they ever understood the word union.
It was former members of this union , CFMEU who walked past our picket lines, in the back door and voted to remove injured workers rights under LABOR.
No good conning our selfs there most definitely is a difference between unions.
And the PRIME REASON union membership ever dropped to its current level is the actions of such militants.I could not get, maybe a good thing, to talk to many ministers for the then RTA/National Parks/Forrest's, Labor ministers!
May have got to see one if I went to a certain steam room, an unlikely event.

*Yabby if only you knew.
It is about zero*

Hehe Belly. So you think that people like your Mr Howe have no
say in the Govt? Last time I checked, I'm pretty sure he even had
a say in getting rid of Rudd. Talk about the true believers!
They will believe anything lol.

*There has to be a balance and both the industry unions (eg. chambers of commerce and the like) and workers unions have a place in protecting the interests of their members*

Ah Pelican, you are so sweet :) Good to see you back, btw. I hope
that you missed us.

I was just thinking earlier, given that the world is full of gullible
people, I really could have had many career choices.

I could started a business and been honest, saying that I hoped to
make a profit, but as you are a consumer, you have a choice. Happy
customers usually return.

I could have started a church and sold you a ticket to heaven, telling
like the Catholics do, that you can take it with you, if you give it
to me :)

I could have been a trade union leader, telling you how downtrodden
you are and that you deserve better, as I pushed your emotional
buttons. If I worked for the HSU and others, I would have been paid
a huge salary and hugely generous expense account, by the sounds of
things. Just check what Williamson earned and what he spent on
his expense account.

Now explain to me why the honesty of the businessman is less honest
than the other two.

My business associate and I were discussing this today, he's never been in a union, he was disgusted to find out that even these lowliest of these grubs earn upwards of 100,000 a year while we self employed private contractors make, in a good year maybe half that.
He described them as workers blockading the sites, I corrected him, nope, they are not workers, they're unionists.
As for the criminal element..pfft..people have no idea, because I've always refused to join I've been threatened with violence, been subjected to violence and intimidation, been locked out of and locked inside sites...chased, pushed around, screamed at...
Why does so much stuff go missing on union sites, if you don't put your tools in the site box at smoko they're gone when you get back, sometimes the site boxes even get broken into..as for materials and expensive equipment...when I was a lowly labourer my boss once took delivery of a $6000 pump for a swim spa we were installing, it was gone when we came back from lunch.
Bikies, drug dealers and addicts, thieves, mental cases...on non union sites and private jobs you rarely run into "unsavoury" characters, they're all on commercial jobs....people have no idea what these "unionists" are like.

*earn upwards of 100,000 a year*

Well Belly is free to correct me, if I am wrong, but from memory,
the heads of the HSU were earning around 300k a year, plus expense
accounts. For that kind of money, I too could preach to you about
the poor workers, whilst I had my snout in the trough. As Pericles
has pointed out so wisely, when a bloke leads a so called charity
and earns hundreds of thousands, it ain't a charity, its a business!

Well in my first post in this thread I said it.
Yabby, not a bad bloke but all too willing to twist anything to his own use.
Well he is a farmer, bit of wire and he owns a tool box.
JOM, as is his normal lances the boil that never exists, all unionists.
Easy to forget, those unionists are the bloke next door or in Church, at the footy, SONS OF UNWED PARENTS!
Lets put the boot in.
We sit in this country on a lifestyle built for us, from the Tod puddle Marters to those who first said we are not cattle.
You do not own us.
See my warning this filth damages ALL UNIONS.
See the evidence from my mentioned posters.
$100.000? FOR WHAT? in civil construction the figure is more, there 12 hour days never less than 6 days maybe 7.
Gina wants us to work for less, these gentlemen want to expand this blame game to unions.
The dead dog willfully thrown on the lunch shed table HSU?
I could write ten pages, as an opening,about the worst of bosses, a few farmers who held mentally ill as nothing less than unpaid slaves.
But no, this thread is to address a union problem, from within the movement I know the claims are wrong.
But it is unions problem, every time, that folk think like that.
Forget growth, unless it comes with education, and service,unless we can without fear confront such as the CFMEU for undermining unionism.

Well Belly, what we can see is that the union business, is clearly
lucrative. I too could go shouting "Up the workers" and stir em
up, if you paid me 300 grand a year. Instead I decided to take
an honest job, like grow food. Silly me.

I believe the beggars get free tea coffee and biscuits too!
Not even the HSU got that much.
But why the concern? some sports men and women get twice that.
Remember your figure is untrue.
But are you concerned with bank managers getting multi millions in bonuses?
I have seen you defend high wages, seems you are targeting the job not the wage here.
Tell you what, if you take lower wages than you can get, send for help, money alone makes the world go round.
HSU, HIGH WATER IN WAGES AND FILTH GOT 300.000 NO ONE ELSE.
Scuse me, of to the unionist only section of the bar, promise not to get above my class again.

*Not even the HSU got that much.*

Well seemingly they did, Belly. Just google it. 350K for the boss,
270k for the assistant, 140k Volvo luxury SUV, all paid for by the
union members.

You miss the irony of all this, its a bit like religion. Businesses
claim to be there to make a profit, so are honest about it. Unionists
claim to be there to help the poor worker. Clearly some union leaders,
(not the underlings like Belly of course) are creaming it all the
way!

They published an itinery of where Graig Thompson stayed, when he came
to WA. Luxury restort, luxury expenses all the way. This is just one
union that we know about.

So my point is this: At least business is honest. It seems that
unions are more like religions. Some at the top, are seemingly
creaming it all the way and many of the members don't have a clue.

* Scuse me, of to the unionist only section of the bar, promise not to get above my class again.*

Sounds like some of your rich union mates are meanwhile in the
rich section of the bar. I'm down in the peasant section, but hey,
there are nice people down here.

*HSU, HIGH WATER IN WAGES AND FILTH GOT 300.000 NO ONE ELSE.*

Well here you are contradicting yourself, as earlier you claimed that
nobody got that much. The thing is, we don't know. We only know about
the HSU because of the Thompson affair. We really don't know what is
going on in other unions. This time, a union was simply caught with
its pants down, so has been exposed. Who checks on all those figures
and expense accounts? Who checks on corruption within the building
unions?

Yabby, mate, you best serve my case.point of view.
Bill shorten gets that 300 thou, as minister, Howe's gets less than 2.
Here I constantly go on record, CONDEMNING the CFMEU and HSU.
You, as ou do in my ALP WAKE UP threads wander in and empty garbage on them.
In fact the fact you blindly see no good in unions, supports my view.
These filth, and every such grub, greatly harms the union movement.
And by implication the ALP.
I SHARE MY EX WORKMATES VIEW, such can never see the whole story
IT DOES NOT MATTER!
In truth only the dismantling of both these unions and new name new path unions replace them will do.
CONSIDER THIS east coast dairy farmers offer homes to pensioners and mentally disabled.
In return for working the get $100 a month and a shed to live in.
Do you yabby understand blaming every farmer is stupid?
I worked for three non unionists/slaves after a construction boss came with me to see them.
They lived in filth.
Still hurts to think of.
We got
423.000 in an out of court settlement, should have been much more, poor beggars to afraid to go in to court.
Are all farmers like that? no mate, but some would like to be.

*Here I constantly go on record, CONDEMNING the CFMEU and HSU.*

Ah indeed you do, Belly. But that is not going to change much,
is it? Those unions are part of the ACTU. I understand that
the head of the HSU, was also party prez of the ALP for some
time. Brothers in arms together, in the thick of it, at the top.
You underlings really don't matter too much, IMHO.

Anyone can be a farmer or a businessman. I have no affiliation
with other farmers who might be doing the wrong thing.

All I am doing is pointing out is the deep flaws in both your
union movement and in your political party. I have never denied
that unions can in fact do some good, if there are checks and balances.
Once we have a union movement which is deeply intertwined
with the Govt, trouble is sure to follow. That is really what we
have now.

It may be of interest to some who read and do not post[please do we need the intellectual stimulus]
To know what I think/hope the face of future unionism will be.
Well not a toothless Tiger!
But much as my union is today, traveling toward a service based oganisation.
Long gone are the news letters consigned to the waste paper bin as soon as they are handed out or arrive.
The fact is members want to be members, but as workplace and income insurance not [political indoctrination].
Unionism, MUST mover away from the crowd mentality such as this union stage.
About ten percent and not more are even in part militant.
CFMEU after sinking the BLF, took on its tactics and grew them.
Those marches impress, those who want the limelight.
Every fall in membership brings another such staged event.
The strong moving in the crowd forcing SOLIDARITY mindless following.
I think we need one day, one union, different sections for different workplaces.
Highly skilled and trained legal section, and tight money control and reporting.
One union has the power to take on even its child the ALP in the interests of its members.
Recent cuts in workers compensation, not just a Liberal thing, Labor did it too in my state, saw less headlines than this thuggish act in both capitals.
A reminder, few know it,those picketing the site? not workers from the site

Yabby dearest one, I did miss you all. :)

I never claimed the honesty of a businessman to be less than the honesty of a unionist or a Church leader.

Each on his or her own merit and in his or her time.

If you look into any organisation whether it is a corporation, a union, a government department, an NGO, a NFP or intelligence agencies you will find, on occasion, cases of corruption, fraud and incompetence.

Unions do not always look after the interests of their members well as business does not always look after the interests of their shareholders to whom they are legally obligated. The trick is how to keep them honest. As a consumer that is relatively easy, you can vote with your feet, as a citizen it is somewhat harder having very little influence on government policy.

The idea of unionism is not a bad one as it is made out to be by the business lobbies. I do hope Bill Shorten institutes some sort of regime of accountability for unions. It is vital that unions improve their act. History already records what happens in scenarios where employers have all the power.

*The trick is how to keep them honest*

Well that is the point, Pelican. Power corrupts, without checks
and balances, be that in the Vatican, the union, in politics or
in business.

So the very reason why I sometimes defend business, is that I am
tired of this notion that business is bad, the poor workers,
unions are good, churches mean well and do good. Its basically
rubbish.

If it was up to me, all organisations which claim tax free status and
take money from the public, should be fully accountable for how that
is spent. Be that unions, churches, the Red Cross, the lot. Public
corporations have to disclose their figures, so why not the rest?

Only checks and balances at various levels will bring about change.

I find it is not possible on this subject to find common ground with many/yabby.
Yet Pelican [welcome back] may be closer to my views than most think.
I live for the union movement and my union.
Would do the job I did for no pay.
Yet in this thread, the HSU one, and many have not hidden my views.
Todays unions are better than yesterdays, we improve with less workplace warfare more better educated people.
But in my view fail, in personal relationships with our members.
When the AWU car stopped at a work site, for some it still is, we welcomed them as mates.
Union views some industry's are too hard is gutless.
And EVERY FRAUD or miss use of members funds should be put on shop.
But this thread could have been about DAILY FRAUD by bosses.
No super paid no compensation insurance believe me some bosses do it.
Yabby sees things I do not, a huge evil in every union and halos on the heads of true filth bosses.

This dispute will be a marker.
It has been coming for a very long time.
It may well see the CFMEU de registered, certain in my view.
It is strange the imported picket lines and whole event, at best for the union case is about personality's.
Firms owner vs a bloke yet to prove he has one.
It is not about working conditions, it is about the union using its membership as a weapon.

Thanks Belly.

Yabby I know that is why you defend business and I can understand your position. By contrast, I lean more towards defending employee rights, only because I think there is already greater power vested with business than in fairly powerless workforce. And no I don't equate unions necessarily with workers.

In fact I agree with your sentiments about accountability 100%. It is necessary if that elusive balance is to be achieved.

I will be proud forever to prove yabby,s view of unions is not always right.
In fact during the Belly,s Conspiracy thread I started, that event I took place in was used.
Few understand building construction is CFMEU ground unchallenged by my union.
Civil construction, and earthworks is two unions, CFMEU and AWU.CFMEU even took AWU to industrial relations court, intent on taking its coverage.
They lost, I gave evidence for AWU.
Unionism must, to survive and thrive, distance them selves from such as this.
Yabby our biggest civil construction firms to our smallest invite me to recruit on their jobs.
Then reward their workers with rises above those on offer.

*I lean more towards defending employee rights, only because I think there is already greater power vested with business than in fairly powerless workforce.*

Yes Pelican, but your mind seems to revolve around big corporations,
wheras small business employs most people. I personally have never
met a worker who lost money being a worker, they got paid. Yet I know
plenty of business people who lost their shirts, often through no fault of their own.

The thing is, if you want capital to create jobs, it will go where
it feels welcome. Make it impossible and they will leave. If you
want small business people to have a go, to create jobs, don't make life
impossible for them. Something like 4 out of 5 small businesses
go broke, for all sorts of reasons. Yet we need those people to
have a go and take a risk, or few people will have a job.

I know a number of people making great money as employees
and as long as they can cash in big time on their entitlements, they don't give
a figjam. Their attitude is that if people are so silly as to start
their own business, they can only blame themselves. So my point it,
if they did not, most Australian employees would be in deep trouble,
so we need to encourage entrepreneurship, they keep our economy
ticking, often work huge hours and really don't have all this power
that you think they have. The power is with the employees.

It is clear this dispute needs a Bob Hawk.
The firm is on top but it is costing them BIG money,and us Policeing the place.
I think the CFMEU wants to back out, but is trying to be let of the legal hook.
And too the firm has invested big.
In getting the union of its sites.
SO?
Get the silver bodgy back.