PM Gillard announced today that Australia’s annual refugee intake would be boosted from 13 750 to 20 000.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19352716

Meanwhile, Labor MP Kelvin Thomson has given us a timely reminder that immigration from New Zealand is blowing right out of control. It is open slather! We are obliged to take as many Kiwis as want to come here to live. 54 000 Kiwis moved to Australia in the last year. This has increased greatly and appears to be continuing to do so.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/7534456/Shut-the-door-on-Kiwis-says-Australian-MP

So it would surely be a good time to reconsider this arrangement and considerably lower the Kiwi influx.

While we’re at it, we should be carefully reconsidering our total immigration intake and winding it progressively back to net zero.

If Gillard is really earnest about addressing carbon emissions, then she should be addressing the ever-increasing number of fossil fuel consumers in this country. In fact, it is completely contradictory to introduce a carbon tax while not doing this!

And there are many other good reasons for reducing the immigration rate right down.

Oh, and a decisive stop to fly-in visa-overstayers and asylum seekers would be good.

What about it Julia? You are trying to clean up the onshore asylum seeking debacle. So why not clean up the whole asylum seeking / refugee / immigration program at the same time?

Now why would you be worried about kiwi's moving here for a better life? Many are Christchurch earthquake, a natural disaster, refugee's, many are economic victims of low wages and high cost of living.
Kiwi's cannot draw on any Centrelink benefits, have to pay full fee for education at TAFE & Uni's and cannot vote? It is not until they become Australian citizen's can they then move forward and "reap" the benefits of this country. Many do not realise they have to register for arrival or resident status then wait the mandatory two years before applying for citizenship.
Many families are living in poverty trying to make a go and many are caught in fools gold coast, victims of con men, dodgy employers who rip them off and many are in dire straits!
Kiwi's are generally well educated, well adjusted and wonderful people who respect diversity and very tolerant of bad behaviours.
Come on over!

All good stuff babs, May we continue to welcome Kiwis as new Australian residents, but not open-endedly!

By far the most important thing is to greatly reduce our total immigration rate so that we can achieve a stable population at a level that is not too much higher than at present. And an essential part of that is to limit immigration from New Zealand.

Or perhaps not. If we were to greatly reduce overall immigration, then maybe we could continue to accommodate a large and increasing number of funny little flightless Kiwis each year!? For a while at least, until we get the total immigration rate down close to net zero (in the order of 35 000). Then the Kiwi numbers would have to drop considerably as well.

As soon as she got into power, Gillard denounced Rudd’s ‘Big Australia’. But she has done nothing whatsoever about it!

Now’s her big chance! Now, along with her changes to refugee and asylum seeker movements, and my other recommended changes to immigration, is the most excellent time for her to announce the first big cut in immigration.

Cmawwn Julia. HOW ABOUT IT!?!

Babs>> many are economic victims of low wages and high cost of living.<<

So are we Babs, poor bloody Kiwis, from the fire to the frying pan.

Ludwig abuses Julia now wants her to do something for him.
Maybe it's time for NZ to become another AU state, we wouldn't have to worry about NZ immigration.
Immigration increases were recommended along with Nauru and Manus.

Easy there Luddy old mate, with out the kiwis you'd have no tourist industry up your way. With out them there would be no staff.

I suppose it might seem like there are more than there actually are to you, as they mostly end up in north Queensland.

I only just escaped in time. Just a few months more, & I'd think it was natural to say "SEX", when I really only meant "SIX".

Yes, and SUX when you mean SEX!! ( :>/

Yes, I had a rather hilarious night in Melbourne for a Sandown motor race meeting one time.

The Kiwi receptionists at John Batman Motel asked me if I would like room SEX, when she was booking the team in.

You know, being young was fun.

Dear Ludwig,

You've just given us a possible solution to
Australia's asylum seeker problem. By utilising
the great migration of New Zealanders to Australia.

To maintain their economic balance in New Zealand
they have to maintain a steady population which
could be assisted by the Australian Government
shipping all the asylum seekers arriving on our
shores to New Zealand to replace the New Zealanders
coming to Australia.

Hi Lexi, where have you been?

Actually it works the other way. NZ lets them in, gives them citizenship, then they move immediately to oz.

I wonder if we will ever learn?

Dear Hassie,

I thought only Samoans and other islanders did that.
I didn't realise that other refugees did.

Where have I been?

Health issues - I'm afraid.

I won't bore you with the details - but if you
know of a good cardiologist in Melbourne, let
me know. I'm not happy with the one I've got.
The strong dosage of medication that I'm on is
really affecting my life-style in a negative way.

Dr Dick Epworth hospital level 6.
What's the matter with Kiwis. They are nice fury animals if you can find one. When Nauru is full, where to then. Can't we give them to the UN, to distribute.
The only plan that had a chance of working is Malaysia, it made cense.

579>> The only plan that had a chance of working is Malaysia, it made cense.<<

I dunno 579, we send 800 to Malaysia without papers and we get 4000 with papers back. The deal stinks, not to mention the millions we have to give Malaysia for their upkeep.

I agree the pedigree of the asylum seekers is better, but it was not a solution then and it is not a solution now. I think the most important aspect is that Malaysia is not a signatory to the bullsheiser human rights mandates that the stupid first world has signed up to. We take the economic refugees because of these mandates, but we send them off to a non signatory country.

New Zealand is a back door to Australia for refugees anyway as well as Pacific Islanders and other non White migrants.
The bleeding hearts might be able to convince themselves that it's acceptable to import thousands of unemployable, hostile and unassimilable Afghans and Tamils but can they give us a reason why we should have thousands of unemployable, hostile and unassimilable Tongans, Samoans and Maori living here?

Oh Lexi, that saddens me, you take care my belle, our hearts do so much more than drive blood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwoy7cZf4B0

We send 800 to Malaysia for 4000 in return, Why would you pay to get on a boat if you knew you were going to be sent to malaysia to get on the back of the que. The 4000 had already been processed but had nowhere to go because of the que jumpers.

Lexi I have been aware of your absence and missed you.
You are the best Doctor you could get, be positive.
Three time I have been told I have cancer and it proved wrong.
Know many of us value you a great deal and are thinking of you.
Ludwig hope your thought is you know in in cheek.

Why not take in a few Kiwis, they could be the life savers in the australian gene pool.

Jay>> but can they give us a reason why we should have thousands of unemployable, hostile and unassimilable Tongans, Samoans and Maori living here?<<

About assimilation, I know a load of Islander’s both male and female who have Caucasian partners. I don’t know too many Middle Easterners who marry outside their race and that engenders nothing except an enclave mentality.

Jay believe it or not as they say, I supported myself through uni by working as a doorman at Kings Cross for various clubs owned by the late Abe Saffron way back in the day. There was nowhere near the number of Islanders back then but they predominantly gravitated to doorman type work because of their physical stature. I did not find them brutal; they did not come from a culture that had a religion or society that condoned physical retribution for social demeanors. I still have no problem with Islanders.

I have issue with youth unemployment being over 30%, and the brutalizing of our youth by the crap playstation games and the wanky gangster rap genre, that the white owned and managed record companies promote.

lexi,
Yep missed you girl, Would recomend a doc if I could. Look after yourself, as i recall you have a grandchild to spoil.

I like your idea of sending illegals straight to NZ, remember they took some from Nauru before, but Ludy is right we would still need a cap on the incoming from NZ.

Hasbeen,
I liked that about room SEX, did you ask her if room sex cost extra or was it part of the tarrif. I intend to use that one. I think that would put a smile on The Pied Piper

Thanks everyone for all your kind comments.
I didn't mean to de-rail this thread by complaining
about my state of health (I was merely answering Hasbeen's
question as to where I've been) - so
sorry Ludwig. I will contact Epworth hospital however.
I've heard that they specialise in heart problems and have
the best cardiologists.
Anyway, once again - Thanks to you all.

This asylum seeker issue really has me bamboozled.
I certainly don't have any more answers - and I've
tried to see things from various points of view -
and yet I still don't know what the heck we should
really do about any of it. I thought that I had it
all figured out - well of course my views aren't set
in concrete - and all I can do is listen and learn.
And hopefully with time things will sort themselves out
for the best. For all of us.

<< …shipping all the asylum seekers arriving on our shores to New Zealand to replace the New Zealanders
coming to Australia.>>

That’s actually a very good idea Lexi.

We should be insisting that New Zealand take all our onshore asylum seekers. Afterall, they are getting a hoot of a deal in being able to freely move to Australia if they wish, with no restrictions on numbers.

Even if we put a restriction of 30 000 per annum on them, we should still require them to take all onshore asylum seekers, which at the current rate of arrivals would amount to less than one third of that total, and require those found to be refugees to stay there for at least ?ten years before they can move to Australia.

They’d still be getting a hoot of a deal!

All the best. Cheers.

I don't care where they come from they should not be allowed to receive any social security benefits until they have at least worked for X amount of years.
I remember a person from New Zealand years ago he was an alcoholic getting the dole (didn't even have to look for work), rental assistance and had welfare workers bending over backwards to help him he had never contributed 1 thing to Australia. These leeches from any country should not be allowed.

Lexi perhaps you'd better come up here to the warm. We have some pretty good cardiologists too. Not only that, we have some kind of Asian doctor at Beaudesert who is brilliant.

I have no idea where he comes from, between my tinnitus & his accent, I can't understand a word he says. However he has sorted out my 3 heart attacks, quick time.

After he's finished with me, they could send me home, but they insist on sending me to the big time city hospital to check I'm alive.

It does help to find one who will talk to you like an adult. A lady cardiologist at PA in Brisbane explained what some of the medications do. Now I know why they are giving me some of them.

My doctor was taking me off a couple, because I don't have high blood pressure, or cholesterol. Now I know he was wrong, & I know why I should be on these things.

Tell me Sweet, do you rattle too? They have me on so many pills, I rattle for half a day after taking them all. Keep your chin up, & don't let it get you down.

Just a thought,a thing we should consider here is others, from all over the world, read our thoughts.
Few understand our humor, even less the widening gap, like it or not, SOME new to us, religion based migrant enclaves are inflicting on Australia.
We make fun, for funs sake,of Kiwis, but in truth are very close to them, except when they flog us, as usual, in their sport Rugby.
Thanks Individual, for both mentioning, and proving, our Gene pool needs some improvement.
Just maybe we should not be so very thin skinned when folk from other country's get in to us?

My earlier general thread on raising the refugee intake:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4860

These leeches from any country should not be allowed.
Phillip S,
Which leech is worse ? The one who receives or the one who gives without questioning the receiver, i.e. the bureaucrats who let this happen totally unaccountable. The real culprits aren't those who make the claims. It's the Public Servants who literally don't give a damn about the country that employs them. Many of them are nowadays half-literate migrants who have been put there by, you guessed it, Australians. Australians who don't deserve to be called that because they'd sell their grandmothers for any extra Dollar they can put into their Super fund. Australia's problems come from within, they're home grown. Take a very good look in the mirror before you vote at the next election. Hopefully you look deep enough to stir the integrity nerve.

Phillip S,
I like the way you are thinking and your term 'leeches' is spot on, especially for illegals.

For too long we have allowed the bleeding hearts to paint the illegals as victims, when any reasonable analysis shows they they are just selfish con artists. The $5 billion we have spent, over the past few years, on the illegals could have been used to upgrade our roads and other infastructure. Major government failure!

We are too generous for our own good, the Kiwi immigration needs tightening right up, they should not be simply allowed to come over at will. Most Kiwis have a culture that needs little adjustment, so that is a plus. Anyway a major reduction in immigration numbers is required and we could start by reducing the numbers from cultures that have shown they cannot integrate.

All immigration should be aimed at Aus getting a benefit.

I do not agree that we should increase refugee numbers, I think 13000 is ample. Again we need to look at the cultures we allow and reject those that show poor integration. Note big problems in some places cannot be ignored, for community cohesion.

Banjo,
Australian Visa regulation is one of the most inflexible of all countries, unless you're wealthy or a celebrity but even then some of them get a pretty hard time. This is why the so-called illegals make a mockery of it.
Fully documented applicants including children who need to be with their parents are getting the run-around from immigration officers who are not even australian but are employed as contractors by Immigration Australia. If anyone can see the sense in that please inform us.
The other thing that I fail to comprehend is the lack of foresight by Immigration regarding genuine immigrants. There are many children & adolescents who can speak one or more languages & who would speak english within 5 years of being here. Now these would be the best people Immigration could employ as negotiators & customs officers but no, they always give preference to those who don't generally do the right thing. The genuine applicant in many cases is the victim.

<< I do not agree that we should increase refugee numbers, I think 13000 is ample. >>

I agree Banjo inasmuch as it most definitely shouldn’t happen in isolation. If it were to happen as part of a total revamp of immigration and refugees issues as I have expressed in the opening post, then fine.

But as it is, I’m with you.

And yes, we should be mindful of the types of refugees that we bring here, with respect to assimilation and social coherence.

Banjo, Ludwig, I agree with both of you.
For that the Pink left, the nice folk who may know little,will brand us racist.
If this debate was are religions divisive we would find support for the thought it is.
If I was to ask what group of immediate post ww2 refugees demanded we change,Christian crosses decorations ext, many including me would not be able to name any.
Yet for fearing we are mixing gravel in our Christmas pudding? that trouble will come?
We are racist!
Test me, try migrating and practicing your religion in those country these folk flee, try doing it openly.
And risk being MURDERED.
yet we are racist?

Talking to the owner of a couple of large aircraft at the airport bar yesterday. He told me of a friend of his who was born in Australia to Malay parents. Ten years ago ago as a 30 year old he went to work in Malaysia & now has to renew his australian passport. Guess what ? They don't want to renew it !! He'll be stranded as he has no other citizenship. Is that the sort of Australia that wants to increase immigration ? Can't even renew it's own citizens' passport ? The mind boggles.

belly,
Don't be put off by being called a racist. When i first started to post on OLO mmigration and multiculturalism were popular topics and for projecting the views of my last post i would get many howls of racist and Xenophobia. Usually it was the opening line in debate.

Things have changed and it is now over 24 hrs since my posting and not one comment opposing those views. One swallow does not make a spring, but maybe just a little progress. Maybe people are now more aware of the many problems in Europe and UK or have seen the faults in the multiculturalism ideology.

I just hope Aus government will one day see the folly of high immigration and reduce the intake.

Here is an honest man, pity he lives in Canada, we could use more people like him here:
"Is race realism Racist?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCaxQXVHMp0

Banjo yes I was just being insistent.
I insist on the right to views other than the pink left.
I constantly am against every form of pc control and the blindness that sees a problem, suffering masses, but not reality.
Reality is we can not solve the worlds problems by bringing every one of them here.
And in truth SOME of the Muslim faith are intrusive on my rights.
Can I say that? surely I can! the hatred toward us, from second generation Australians of that faith is racism from minority against majority.

Racism towards us is the price we pay for our compassion. For some of us the failure to see that has been blinding for years now.

Well since we're defying the adults with our "isms" we might as well go all the way and point straight at the big elephant in the room, or the senate chamber to be precise.
Women.
When Ms Hanson Young chokes up as she did (again) this week, rises to her feet and wails "How do you decide which children you're going to imprison on Manus and which ones you're going to imprison on Nauru?" we know why we're in this situation, a person who is that emotional and irrational has no business being in parliament.
I had a female family member with a background in corrections determined to come out of early retirement and go to work for SERCO so she could "Help the little children", she got the job and a week later the riots at Villawood happened, she rang them up and told them she'd found a better job and we never spoke of it again.
That's not to say the men are off the hook, Wilkie is as bad if not worse but if he and the other "Feminists"had to man up and be one of the boys instead of being allowed to show his "sensitive" side whenever he feels like it we might have a proper ,functioning state.
Women cannot run a state, they cannot build a strong nation, that's men's work, if you value either of those things you should agitate to have women removed from government and bureaucracy, if you value "equality' then get used to a constantly declining standard of living, more crime and more ethnic and religious tension because that's all such systems can offer.

J o M well,not related in my view to the thread.
But not totally wrong.
I hold the view SOME, even most in Parliament, Women let mum instinct blind them to the pragmatic reality's of politics.
Greens are, without doubt, far worse than most in this.
I remind every poster, while being unashamed at my own bias, entrenched by others insistence my world change to fit theirs, we are not alone.
Should some comments be seen overseas and used, we would be ashamed as a result.

Belly,
It's related to the preceding comments and the inevitable digression these threads take, most men are deeply concerned about race and about their posterity, as I said, nation building is men's work, today's atomic, career driven, consumerist woman only sees Nationalism or Racialism as a threat to her liberty and independance. It's one of those situations where the 60's reform culture, for all the real world good it did is now slowly pulling the rug from under it's own feet, the kind of reforms the Greens and other "do gooders" want will not be possible in a society which looks like Brazil or South Africa.

<< When Ms Hanson Young chokes up as she did (again) this week, rises to her feet and wails "How do you decide which children you're going to imprison on Manus and which ones you're going to imprison on Nauru?" we know why we're in this situation, a person who is that emotional and irrational has no business being in parliament. >>

Agreed Jay.

She’s a shocker! So incredibly narrowly focussed and misguided!

And she’s doing the Greens and hence the environment movement at the federal political level a great deal of damage.

JoM, Belly,

I wonder if either of you gentlemen consider it appropriate, or that I am qualified to comment on such things - being as I'm so emotional/irrational and all that....perhaps we should have never been given the vote - being as we're so emotional/irrational and all that....

Seeing that humans are such a flawed and savage species even when they're trying to protect their civilised state, I wonder why men are so puffed up about their lack of emotionality.

Poirot,
What's feminisms contribution to Nation/Society building ?

individual,

Who do you think stands behind all the wonderful men who trot about nation building. They wouldn't last a moment if they didn't have the reinforcing support of women...just ask Johnny Howard.

And another thing.

Western feminism has merely fallen into line with the male-orientated way. Real feminism is more notable in the strength derived from women in the so-called developing world, where whole societies depend on the overarching industry and organisation of women for their societies to run smoothly - at least, that's how it was before mechanisation and monoculture moved in and usurped women's role in agriculture.

So yes, men are inventive and warrior-like which is great for nation-building, but it's only the outer shell of human society - something that's always glossed over - as if the internal machinations and contribution of women is something men can do without.

Poirot,
I knew women are one of the two pillars of society. My question was re feminists.
What it really boils down to is that men can't do without women & women can't do without men.
The gays & feminists can't do without normal peoples' support structure designed for all.

'I wonder why men are so puffed up about their lack of emotionality.'

It takes years of skill and practice Poirot. You get told you're not allowed to cry since age 2 and you go from there. Of course these days society's gone the other way, when nobody is allowed on TV or in the sporting arena without crying a river of tears and wailing over their new found friends from their 'journey' or doing it for their team mates, or for Straya.

People look really ugly when they're blubbering. I was more comfortable with the world when people kept that sh1t to themselves. Or at least when they left it for things that warranted a tear.

But, generally, one sex is taught to use emotion as a bargaining tool (and I've often told girlfriends that crying is blackmail), while the other sex is taught the opposite, to show no emotion, to be hard as nails because respect comes that way.

So mommy says 'wait until your father comes home', and dad lashes out a beating with a belt, as that's his job. Which is a Metaphor for how society works really.

So men object and think it's a bit much when Mommy turns around and labels Daddy a sadist when she's left all the discipline to him in the first place.

I am aware this can be turned around on its head when it comes to the nurturing side of life, but I see the exact same guarding of territory around home management and care of children with women dissing male efforts. They cant even plan a wedding, and every advert selling women's shite takes the piss out of how men are just useless bumbling fools in the domestic realm, and the smart woman saves the day, with the help of the latest product of course.

Poirot I have NEVER given you grounds to think like that.
Another poster flogs me for my entrenched belief in Womens liberation, not Womens Domination!
Ludwig quite true woman is every thing bad in politics she is as you say Hoully ok too.
Men must have good manners open doors and a whole lot more.
But must NEVER expect the same in women?
I remain convinced only the very best,both sex,s should be in politics.
Can ANY WOMAN look at both Bishops and that lass from the Q and A collapse and tell me that is wrong?
I will not ever give up my views so others can exist free of judgment.
Poirot consider your including me in your post, on what grounds?
Ever find, now be honest, men you dislike, besides me? for my comments.

Poirot,
Who stands behind Julia Gillard then ? Another feminist o that boyfriend of hers ? Is he there for real or just for show ?

Belly,

Sorry mate, I've offended you.

But you agreed with JoM - and his stance is that women have no place in political or bureaucratic life - as if our more emotional base precludes a valuable input.

I happen to agree with Houellie and individual in that both their opinions have merit.

Why do you mention "women's domination"?
Let's face it, Western feminists are only buying into the male paradigm. That's not women's domination. It's merely women jumping on the male-constructed bandwagon.

I have a lot of time for you, Belly. Why, I'd probably even let you open a door or two for me - and I'm capable of returning the favour.

Yes what are you on about Belly I couldn't decipher any of that?

'Western feminism has merely fallen into line with the male-orientated way.'

I see neither male or female oriented 'ways' I see both support the status quo. For every exploitative resource mis-managing monolith compamy, there needs to be drone workers (Men, apart from a select few), and happy little consumers (women, by proxy of their husband's paycheck and now more explicitly)

Which brings me to

'where whole societies depend on the overarching industry and organisation of women for their societies to run smoothly'

That's still how it is man. What man really keeps track of family engagements, the social secretary looks after that. How many wives buy the presents for their in-laws, and remember the kids names. The industry of women is making platters and socialising people to talk to their families, because there's no way men would bother. There'd be whole tribes who had never discovered each other if it wasn't for tea parties and cakes.

Half the communities found each other by conquest, the other half by that special social phenomena known as female networking and out-doing each others' cooking and obligating the purchase of little presents against each other.

Actually the silent war, the arms race of buying little presents has kept many an economy going. I swear I fork out more for little presents for my partner's friends and even birthday presents for all the children of my partners friends than I do on food every year.

I honestly think that women help the economy far more than men, though men seem to be embracing the female lately with this new metrosexualism.

Even Bunnings is totally reliant on women. It's a microcosm of this society; man trying to impress woman with what he can build for her. It's just like the 'wait until your father gets home', and SHY is the woman who cries crocidile tears for the exploited workers that bring her that 'you're worth it' luxury of feminist career and childcare and ikea, the products of the supposed 'male-orientated way'.

Houellie, I agree with you.

But we do live in a rather skewed paradigm in the West. We're all co-opted to keep the tills ringing - and women are by far the best gatherers. It, therefore, stands to reason that were always going to be the best shoppers - instinct you know.

Gawd...I've got Ludwig's editing bug : )

Should read - "...It, therefore, stands to reason that "they" were always going to be the best shoppers...."

[poirot, in fact I would open the doors every time I do not agree with what I seem to have said.
That NO women should be in politics, and my reference to being flogged are for an absent, hope she is OK poster.
But every time I look at that greens Hanson young I bite my lip, I once said she was good looking, far from it.
Those eyes hide a dragon lady, no need to be right, every need to be obeyed.
Labor, in my view, reserves far too many seats for union officials and women, off late both in one.
Surely ability not sex is the measure?

Surely ability not sex is the measure?
Belly,
that depends how good either of them are. :-)

Blah blah blah kiwi bashing blah blah blah funny accent blah blah blah blah.

Most of you have NO IDEA what you're on about.