What are you trying to say?
Anthonyve,
How's this for a lame word game.
I'm saying that asking others to provide evidence re their stance/belief but upon having it explained you don't actually denounce nor approve that belief is proof that my assertion of you not having a point is a fact. :-)
about National Service that is. :-)

Indi,
I cheerfully cede the field to you.
No way to trump that.
Point, set and match to you.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Dear Cherful,

I wrote:

<<Whenever people follow God, the rest falls nicely into place>>

To which you replied:

<<...torture and stoning were everyday penalties for crimes that really do not deserve that kind of penalty. Religious societies burned harmless people at the stake for allegedly being sinners. Religions have always proclaimed their holiness and moral virtues, while never acknowledging that the dark punitive side of their religion was murderous, cruel and wrong.>>

So I wonder - Is this your idea of following God, giving me all those bigots as an example (which has not even crossed my mind)? Could you, or any reasonable person for that matter, possibly believe that those cruel bigots followed God?

Dear Anthony,

I am not here to provide evidence to my views, I am here to relate to Steven's two narratives as he was asking: "Which most closely describes your world view?". I have given my world view - do you also expect me to prove with evidence that this is indeed my world view?

I see that there are usually two scenario which make people go off the beaten track.
Scenario 1, people become so wealthy & powerful that they get bored on the straight & narrow. They become dictatorial or excessively frivolous where they then try just about anything just to see how far they can go even to the point of crime.
scenario 2, people are so poor that they have to try anything to make ends meet even to the point of crime.
Within those two groups you have two sub groups who, like termites, gnaw relentlessly at every moment of others' lives'. They are the Law makers & the religious. Although they do not contribute an ounce of positive whatever, they stifle our every attempt in life for reasons only known to their wharped minds. I think it may be an act of frustration of not being someone special but desperately wanting to be. So, the next best thing is to let your frustrations out on others by joining the Public service or some Church. Never mind stuffing up the lives of so many just so you get some perverse satisfaction.

Dear Individual,

<<They are the Law makers & the religious.>>

The old trick to detect an antisemite, is to complain:

"All the troubles of the world are caused by the Jews and the bicycle riders",

to which the antisemite replies:
- "But what's wrong with the bicycle riders?",
to which you reply:
- "And what's wrong with the Jews?".

Now we are in perfect agreement about the law-makers: these are indeed the ones who gnaw on people's lives, absolutely and especially on the lives of the religious - anyway, lets blame the bicycle riders!

the ones who gnaw on people's lives, absolutely and especially on the lives of the religious..
Yuyutsu,
Hang on, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black ? Isn't religion all about laws ?
Aren't the churches just like Governments, exploiting the masses ?