Bazz in your thoughts I can see why my bad dream, dictatorship is a possibility.
We seem unable to fix starvation mass deaths from illness, refugees world wide.
We live our western lives not even caring about a million some place, dieing of those unnecessary things every year.
Even the thought we are over populated gets rebuffed!
Yet a farmer, not the Pitt Street variety, knows if he over stocks a paddock, and leaves it that way, the stock, all of them, will die.
A clay paddock sparsely grassed can not carry what a river flat can.
The link you and I spoke of showed after a 50 year recession, birth rate falling, we would still produce .48 percent more each year than we lost.

Probably not related to the thread but maybe to OLO.
I am just a little concerned at our growing harshness toward each other, mine too.
We are forming fences around one another, me too, that still does not make it right.
Graham is light on the steering wheel, we seem to like it that way,but we do tend to needlessly insult one another.
Nothing new there.
I think it has always been so.
This thread, and others, skids to a stop mid debate, as it nears 100 posts.
And blind Frederick observing from a galloping horse could see we are not posting in each others threads, those of us most usually in verbal conflict.
OPINION, just what do we do about that word?
My most recent conflict came after what I saw as unfounded and unwarranted insults, from a badly informed poster.
But do we have the right to think differently?
If we all, me too, start our own fence building what is the out come for OLO?
I think a quick look at other forums,see how bad some are may re introduce some mutual respect here.
And that every one of us should consider this, how can they be sure only they are ever right.
The world is over populated and if we do not except we are not perfect maybe OLO will suffer at our hands.

Dear Banjo,

You wrote;

“However belly is right, we need to put family planning high on the list with aid western countries give to developing countries, especially with those that are most susceptible to famine.”

“A lot of Asian countries are heading in the right direction but African countries are over populated. The Asian experience is that given the education and the means, women will not have so many kids and families will be much better off.”

Leaving aside the obscene notion of some that a country such as Australia with its “One for dad, one for mum and one for the country” plus generous baby bonuses should be demanding that its overseas aid to countries like Bangladesh should be provisional on the recipient mandating a strict two child policy, completely of course ignoring the fact that the Bangladeshi fertility rate is now below ours, you must realise that addressing the 'education and means' will in turn facilitate the adoption of family planning initiatives.

Often our perception of over population is determined by a country's susceptibility to famine yet it is hardly the best measure since famine to a great degree is predicated on a particular country's ability to buy grain on the world market. Who would argue that Singapore with its density is over populated? Both India and China export large quantities of grain and one if not both have the monetary means to now weather poor crop yields.

Some African countries do not have that luxury. Food is moved around the world all the time. If it goes to a country that is wealthy and pays for it we tend not to question its population levels, on the other hand if a country is forced to accept the food as aid we get very prescriptive from our comfortable tables.

Helping raise countries on to more secure economic footing is vital but we should never be talked into being stingy with food aid while they take that journey.

*but we should never be talked into being stingy with food aid while they take that journey.*

Well I'm not so sure about that one Csteele. I remember watching
a documentary some time ago, where a bloke in Central Africa, who
had 2 wives and around 14 or 15 kids between them, was complaining about not receiving enough food aid.

Now like most people, I did not have 2 wives and a tribe of kids,
as I could never have afforded to feed them. Are you suggesting
that no matter how many kids that people pop out, you will feed them
all? I think you are trying to go against the very laws of nature here, which come down to parents providing for their offspring.

Personally, I'd rather send my aid money to help women who want a choice about how many kids they pop out, but simply don't have the
means to make that choice.

Given that we spend 4 billion a year on foreign aid, there is no good reason that we cannot spend a fixed share of that, like at least 10%,
for women to have real choices about how many kids that they produce.
Tens of millions would not be getting the knitting needles out, if all these kids were wanted. Fact is that if people have sex without contraception, more hungry mouths will appear.Let the Vatican with
all its billions tucked away, feed the little darlings.

Yabby if I had to go in to the trenches it would be with you and Banjo.
Some clear and honest thinking is called for here.
IF the views of csteele held sway, I would demand we stop ALL AID.
But I understand they do not.
My thoughts clearly stated up the thread, are it will take international laws.
One rule for all, to cut population growth.
IF we do not do it on a voluntary basis some one will ENFORCE IT ON US.
My first thoughts repeated here are tax those who have more kids than allowed in any country.
No food aid no SS nothing for such family.
No trade with country's that do not agree.
Birth control free in poor country's.
west to fund job creation in country's that lower population growth.
China has done it.
csteels charge that Costello's words are Australian policy are shallow.

Dear Belly,

Lol.

I'm just imagining a conversation in your trench.

'Hey lads, no sharing rations with that 'mick' over there, he comes from a family of ten and his missus has already popped out 4 of her own. When the blighter gets really hungry hand him a bayonet and tell him he gets a feed when he comes back with a squeaky voice!'

I'm happy in my trench thanks.