http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/pm-must-go-or-the-party-will-be-over-20120720-22fcl.html
Not in hope not in rage, but in simple truth I agree with the link.
I never stood, or wanted to on the lofty hight of union power or my party's power.
But I see my world in part, from the eyes of those who sit at the very bottom of both trees.
Members.
Policy's to make us proud, and most are,except maybe Carbon tax.
Even that gets my unquestionable support.
It has always been so, Monday after an election, work mates wandering in putting the hard on hat on, and chanting I never voted for them.
Yet another Liberal Government confronted us all, for 3 more years.
Changed of late, now more than 12 months away from an election same blokes are saying, *How can we vote for them/her*
Those we look up to are not hearing our voice, yet.
Given the rush to forget a tree has roots leaves and branches[some] all part of the whole, all needed to survive.
Will power brokers prevail?
In my view now, nothing can save Gillard,she must for the party's sake, step down.
IF NOT? nothing can save the ALP from three maybe four terms in opposition.
Brains far clearer than mine may see it differently, but in large part Neglect, ignorance, and forget fullness, of the reason power is generated and held, ALP Power brokers own the debacle we have in NSW QLD Federal Parliaments.
They are an infection! a block to reform and membership owned party.
What are you thoughts?

Belly,

I agree with your assessment of Juliar. HOwever, for the same reason I want her to stay.

I agree with every word in the link.
Every dot every crossed T.
And I thank Shadow Minister for the most honest post he ever made.
But I fear, more than Tony Abbott, those from my side who still wish to prop Gillard up, just to keep Rudd out.
What ever the out come,my prediction is here on record, change before the end of next month, damage has been done.
Blame? if we are looking at fixing a problem, resolution, then get to basics.
The Sussex Street young Labor, or ex, that, destroyers did not lump bagged spuds, stand knee deep in mud laying pipes, they went to uni, learning how to become lawyers, and ALP leaders.
They did not mix shoulder to shoulder with the unfortunate common, workers/voters.
The battles they fought in my party had been to get higher, and further away, from voters.
They achieved top marks, and came equipped with no common sense,to deeply harm the ALP.
COMMON TOUCH, hearing smelling, living the life of ordinary people, could help them recant the damage they inflicting my party my union.
Fear and tremble at the sight of a Julia supporter, they, willingly, put my party last.

A family earning $80,000 a year is now paying about $1550 less in tax than it did four years ago.
Hmmh, this Carlton chappie obviously doesn't live in everyday street, Does he think increased costs of living aren't tax ? I wish I could live in such ignorant bliss.

I for one had no opinion of Gillard. I was pleased to see the erratic Rudd gone, & hoped for better.

Well we didn't get better. All we got was incompetence replacing irrationality. It must be soul destroying to look & see only Gillard or Rudd as your alternative leaders. Either or both are hopeless, & spell the kiss of death for the next couple of would be leaders you try.

No one is going to live down the catastrophe of the last 5 years in a hurry, no matter how good they may be, & it is unlikely you have any with a possibility of getting near leadership in the short term, who are not tainted by the current rabble.

How any commentator can praise Gillard for anything I really don't know. Most of the country have correctly categorised her as a compulsive liar, incapable of telling the truth, even when it would be to her advantage, What planet do these people live on? It can only be one where nothing matters but some long dead ideology.

No wonder news papers are almost as dead as Gillard.

Dear Belly,

If you believe the polls - they tell us that
it is certain (as anything in politics can ever be)
that if Julia Gillard leads Labor to the next
election - Labor will suffer a disastrous defeat.
And if the defeat is sufficiently disastrous, the
Coalition may even gain control of the Senate.

That scares the heck out of me because it means
that all the important legislation the Gillard
government has passed or has on its agenda -
- the carbon tax, the mining tax, the early stages
of a national disability scheme - all will be repealed
or fail to be followed through.

So I suppose the question before Parliament resumes
next month, before the Labor caucus has to be -
to choose between two loyalties. One to the Prime
Minister, or to their party and their country.

And who will they choose as their new leader?
The devil they know - Mr Rudd?

And who will they choose as their new leader?
The devil they know - Mr Rudd?
Lexi,
It sends a shiver down my spine to think of the possibility of australian voters being so stupid.

Belly,
With Labor odds on to lose the next election, it must be remembered that the PM is not the sole government. The whole parliamentry Labor team is to blame for the current situation as everything they have touched has gone bad.

As one commentator said, it is the result of ideology before practicality. Ideas put forward as policy without thinking them through. No wonder there has been bad press and the public has lost faithin their ability.

As the leader Gillard has to take most of the blame, but who to replace her with. Any new potential leader would be severly handicapped by the current situation. My guess Rudd is the only one to have an ego big enough to think he could win next election.

It's a joke that even those who voted against Rudd claim him as the "people's" prime-minister.

I admire Gillard's strength in the face of misogyny and biased media bile while getting the job done. Although I'd love to see her succeed, I really don't care who leads Labor as long the reform agenda is not dropped or watered down.

Carlton's point about Gillard not being able to sell the Labor message has a lot to do with the petulance and destabilization of a vengeful Rudd and his supporters failing to give her the clear air to do so. Fitzgibbon's role in this (and ego and self-interest) is stunning and if he is anywhere near the seat of Labor power at the next election it is clear that populism will have completely won the day and I'll be voting independent.

The opposition's policy platform, which is to repeal every Labor reform, "stop the boats" by force and introduce employment "flexibility"(Work Choices), is going to be a hard to sell positively as will be the GST rise needed to pay for removing the carbon and mining taxes (but that won't be mentioned, of course). What lies and omissions await us from our one and only self-confessed liar, the Mad Monk?

with so many of the Labour party heavies having been on the gravy train thanks to cleaner money paid to the unions it is very difficult to see a replacement. Anyone listening to Alan Jones yesterday would understand what a cesspool of deceit our PM was tied up in years ago. She claims she was naive (in her thirties!) What hope has the nation when corruptible people have taken us to new lows. Both Oakshott and Windsor must have deliberately turned a blind eye to all the deceit due to their hatred of the nationals. This puts them on the same level as the Government. Hopefully the family man Abbott can restore some credibility to an otherwise disgusting Parliament.

Well first lets be honest thinking other than Luciferase and Lexi would say something positive about Labor bars further search for answers.
Lexi IF the senate is at risk , and it may be, we are dead!
Only three greens are at risk this time a round.
Remember the night before Kevin 07 won?
You held fears,I assured you, we would win.
POLLING TOLD ME.
Luciferase I fear you, as much as Gillard.
See our Carbon tax is HISTORIC! brilliant, it needs only rushing to a TRADING SCHEME ASAP.
NBN the very same,one day conservatives will sprook its nation building out comes.
Pensions are historical high,the BATTLERS are benefiting more than under past ALP governments.
Have you read the link? do you see Gillard ever winning an election? is it time for the ALP to lie down and die?
Do we concede defeat, tell our selfs we can win on IR next time and be lead by an unwanted woman to our death?
Is any one but Labor able to pick up our bones and start again?
Luciferase/Lexi I have lived at the feet of power brokers, think *still* Howe's,Shorten, Conroy, aging Big Bill Ludwig are HERO'S.
But they got it wrong!
They, the first three, have rolls to play in my party, or it dies, my union or it too shrinks without Howe's.
But as we talk of rebuilding we too destroy my party.
We can not fill our branches we can not grow, even maintain our numbers.
BECAUSE WE TELL MEMBERS they do not matter power is not for them opinions are not for them.
Kevin Rudd had faults and enemy's, he fell by in part his own hand.
HE as I do still, thinks the ALP should be a party of the people not just a union trolley lead by the few.
In truth Unionism too must continue to evolve follow and service its members and sometimes that takes confrontation with governments of every color.

The way to hand Abbott the senate is for Labor to oppose the abolition of the carbon and mining taxes. It's a great chance to flush the greens out of power in one fell swoop.

Big Bill Ludwig are HERO'S.
Belly,
Would that be the Bill Ludwig who was a Union rep in Cairns in the early 70's ? If he was don't bother replying because I have my own assessment of this bloke.

Dear Belly,

I may be wrong - however I feel that the Greens
will eventually go the way of the Democrats.
I don't see them as any kind of a threat politically.
As for the Prime Minister? Well as I've stated in
the past you know more about Labor politics than I do.
However, as one reader wrote in The Saturday Age,
July 21, 2012:

"Why can't the Labor Party and the conservative media
simply allow Julia Gillard to get on with the job?
The woman has kept a hung Parliament going in troubled
times and has managed to see difficult legislation
passed - a tough call for any leader whether male or
female, Labor or Liberal."

"The public's perception of Julia Gillard is very much
in the hands of the media, which when it comes to
the PM seems unfairly biased against her. If the media
didn't jump at every whisper of leadership rumblings
among party members or Opposition innuendo, no doubt the
polls would change in Ms Gillard's favour."

"We may not like a lot of what's happening in Australia
at the moment, but compared with many other countries,
Australia is certainly the place to be."

Hear! Hear!

Perhaps as the election draws nearer - Mr Abbott and his
policies as well as those of the Greens -
will be held up to more scrutiny (especially
the costings), and people will begin to see that what's
being promised will not be feasible and will have very
serious repercussions for our standard of living and our
country in general.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/swan-a-repeat-offender-in-art-of-political-backflip/story-fn53lw5p-1226431097678

On June 16, 2010, Swan was asked a question about Kevin Rudd's leadership amid rumours that Julia Gillard might challenge the first-term prime minister: "Oh come on, let's not over-read all these sort of things." Seven days later Rudd was gone. Swan delivered the Australian Workers Union votes for Gillard. Swan is far from the only offender, it has to be said, but he is one of the worst.

With a Thatcherite tone Swan concluded the resource super-profits tax was too important a reform not to be embraced in its entirety. But he was committed to taxing the miners as Henry had outlined. Just days later he was party to junking the tax after leaving Rudd isolated.

For his lack of policy conviction Swan was rewarded with the deputy prime ministership when Rudd was cast aside.

It was Swan and Gillard (there is a pattern developing here when it comes to poor decision-making) who talked Rudd out of standing by the ETS when the going got tough. That was despite, on September 22, 2009, Swan saying: "It's vital - vital for our national economy that this (ETS) is passed as soon as we possibly can." A few months later, and Swan and Gillard were hard at it trying to convince Rudd to dump the ETS, a move that sparked Rudd's polling collapse, which in turn sparked Gillard's challenge.

Oh, the irony. And Team Gillard now wonders why voters find it so hard to understand how she can argue that pricing carbon is a matter of conviction for her.

The final and without a doubt most sickening example of Swan back-flipping is in relation to his attitude towards Rudd.

He spent 3 1/2 years telling Australians what an honourable, worthy and competent prime ministerial candidate Rudd was. In opposition and in government, with hand on heart, Swan fronted the media and argued for Rudd. Yet in February this year Swan released a statement describing Rudd as never having had "Labor values", and the Treasurer went on to say that his former prime minister had "great weaknesses" and was "dysfunctional".

Lexi I totally agree with your post, but be aware, in doing so claim your words saying I know more about ALP politics are true.
Complex issue, not Rudd vs the beast, beast being Gillards team.
Rudd, instantly as leader, would restore 5% of Labors lost polling, Gillard never could.
Hard to rebut some of Shadow Ministers comments, they are quite right.
COMPLEX? if my single wish was granted, that every member of every trade union, this day, was asked this question.
*Who would you prefer to lead the Labor party*
I have not a single doubt! that EVERY UNIONS FINAL RESULT WOULD SAY RUDD.
Think with me here, born out of my Union movement.
Out of the heart and blood of ordinary workers.
My party often strays from its base NSW QLD Federal Labor.
We came together UNDER THE ONLY MAN who could do it and won!
Went in to that election untrusted on economic management.
Have changed that view, but have lost more.
Supporting Gillard will not turn those unionist heads, power brokers who speak for them do not, and will not turn them.
Support Gillard is Murdering the ALP.
Leave her alone? and betray my party?
Unions will see members leave both if their thoughts are of no value.

In my posts in this thread, in every thread I ever posted in, I understand some disagree with me.
I can not get my head around Lexis comment.
The one asking why we can not just get off Gillards back, and let her do her job.
I understand the words came via a reported link, but have seen near the same ones from Lexi and others.
Can some one asure me we should support wrong always.
That every time we differ, with anyone, we should get off their back?
I damage myself with my life time peers.
But in my view,I would be a coward not to ask for the truth of them.
Truth? more Australians have switched off Gillard forever than support her.
Last Labor must now, fight for its survival not hers.

Labor must now, fight for its survival not hers.
The only avenue for Labor is become Labor again.

Dear Belly,

I didn't mean to upset you. However, I really
don't understand just what the PM has done wrong.
She's had to deal with a hung parliament, yet she's
managed to pass so much good legislation. And has more
on the agenda. I admit that I don't understand all
the politics behind the scenes - nor do I really
want to. What interests me are the policies and
the good that can come out of them. I'm merely
expressing an opinion. It's not meant as a
criticism of you or your point of view.

Lexi,

If you are a fan of what Juliar is doing, then maybe you are one of the happy minority. What happened between 2007 and 2010 was that the electorate's wishes moved to the right, and Juliar promised them largely what they wanted.

The problem for the majority of voters is two fold i.e. she is doing what they don't want, and she is doing what she promised not to.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/electorate-right-about-pms-left-turn/story-fn7078da-1226432215596

While I have seen the justifications that you have put forward for her duplicity, I, and the majority aren't buying it.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw-labor-blamed-for-rudd-leak/story-e6freuy9-1226432233033
Lexi I take no offense, an ex punter I spent my life studying the form.
To win at horse racing you must,even find out the state of mind of the owners trainers and jockey.
Then bet only what will not hurt.
I do so with politics , always.
Right there, on the front page, in headlines, and in my link, is evidence of the toxic nature behind Rudd's dumping/Gillards rise.
Gillard is unable to sell her policy's or the Governments, a critical part of her job description.
She has not been able to match Abbott, is the SINGLE REASON he rides high with idiot policy's.
Looking at Abbott's wrongs, to save Gillard, is to say the public is silly.
Given the choice Abbott [Pinocchio] Gillard [knife in hand].
The choice has been made Abbott!
Is my party, no its power brokers, strange way to spell DICTATORS! to suffer near death, may be even death for their ego?
Even self interested fleas have eyes, a healthier dog is coming.
Go Kevin you good thing!
Lexi I take no offense you can not be blamed for haveing your own views.

Shadow Minister you will have noted I have agreed with some of your comments here.
After the shock you may have granted that at least I can see some wrongs in my team.
I want to fill that out, just a bit.
Few understand the past of my Great ALP, its pain to become an electable party.
Sir Robert Menzies, not unlike John Howard, had our measure,with our help.
Both knew how to win ALP voters over, the ALP knew how to shed them.
Our savior in 1972 took years, just to get permission to stand, to change the party's platform, from those dreaded faceless men.
My proud Union, bush bred like me, power? Charlie Oliver! power was his name!
He gave the big fella permission to lead the ALP!
I love the center and right unions, ALWAYS.
Understand the ALP was born from the unions.
In every state but QLD unions can not get delegates in numbers to go to ALP branches.
My dream is evolution.
Yes fund politics, yes be union, but not control.
Your happiness SM is my night mare, how dare I, stand confronting My life, my history my unionism?
Built on the guts of the rank and file the ALP and Unions must first SERVE.
I demand the insult I grew up with, hated ,agreed, with, be killed forever FACELESS MEN.
A party claiming reform must reform, or die.
Confronted by our own failures and your teams loss of contact with good governance my country needs a strong ALP/OPPOSITION.
Gillard, her stubborn supporters condemn us to that opposition.

Yes I know.
Done it again.
Let my passion get the better of me.
My sure and certain understanding if Julia had Angels wings, and Abbott Devils horns, Labor would be thrashed if lead by her.
Got the better of me.
Do I march over the cliff?
Or say what I think.
Just maybe others think silence is good.
Not me, gutless is my view.

This mornings polls have the final word.
We should, every now and again, put our thoughts and wishes,biases, in the bucket by the door.
Consider the views of the many.
Those views, my views, are in those polls.
Try as hard as you wish, to impose something else, but truth will be there at the end.
Labors primary vote is 28% , we once cried as it dropped to 43%
Gillards approval rating is 29%
Abbott's 30%
Have we ever been lead by two more unloved?
Liberal lead is in landslide on an earth quake followed by flood size.
It can not be avoided, Abbott's figures show even many on his side do not like him, but will vote for him!
However weary as we are of politics we must never become weary of truth.
Gillard will go, Abbott too, we must, every one every side, insist that never again will our party's and leaders forget why we put them there.
I said August, Gillard is gone, some say September, but if she is in the lodge past then?
She thankfully will not be, but a new party may be born if she is.

Gillards approval rating is 29%
Abbott's 30%
Belly,
Yes, that's a survey among Labor voters. Were you to conduct a survey among conservatives you'd find Abbott's rating significantly higher. Gillard's would even be worse. Rudd probably wouldn't even get a mention.

Belly,

I understand why you keep calling for Abbott to go, because he shredded labor. However, this is the very reason that Abbott is so popular among liberals.

The only chance Labor had of stopping Abbott was to actually govern well.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Contrary to your persistent mantra and that of the
Liberal Party - (telling us what's
wrong with the government) how about taking a closer
look at what you guys have on offer for a change.
It's laughable - its such a throwback to the dark ages.
And what does Mr Abbott stand for apart from - John
Howard, the Church, and the Monarchy, and "NO" to everything
else.

Lexi,

for the vast majority who can read and who have a brain, what Abbott and the Coalition stand for is clear.

What Labor wants (which you are faithfully echoing) is for the coalition to provide details and costings that they can try and pick apart or adopt as their own (i.e. with the back to work policies at the last election) to change the focus from Labor's failings.

The first steps will be to reform the tax system by abolishing the inefficient carbon and mining taxes, reform the border protection system by re implementing the successful pacific solution, and reform Labor's white elephants with recommendations from the productivity commission, such as the NBN to a fibre to the node system.

am I being baited? or is it just evidence one knows very little about anything.
100 times I have made this clear, I want no involvement with a poster.
How ever this mornings poll is nation and party wide.
Lexi, yes every thing you say is true.
Is it not also true GILLARD CAN MAKE NO GROUND AGAINST THE BLOKE!
Now think with me, given he is so bad, given no one wants to support Gillard.
IF a new leader comes for Labor a gift awaits them, not Simon Crean, not a Gillard clone.
The leader taken from us.
Gift? clear lead for Labor.
AND in time, for sure removal of Abbott.
Clinging to Gillard, ignoring the polls condemns Labor to death or near it.

'And what does Mr Abbott stand for apart from - John
Howard, the Church, and the Monarchy, and "NO" to everything
else.'

Amen to that. What the vast majority of the nation would do to have John Howard back. The feminist experiment has failed dismally.

It seems silly to suggest that whether Julia is good or bad, reflects on a "feminest experiment". Having watched politics for a very long time, we have seen some pretty stupid men leading countries. It is not what Julia does, but what the voters of Australia do that will determine this countries future. If we are silly enough to imagine that just over 200 people sitting in Canberra have more wisdom, knowledge and experience than the other 20 million of us, we ought to give up now. She undoubtedly does the best she can, but there is no university college to train politicians and apart from one organisation we know of, almost nobody objectively assesses their ability, before they are elected, or their performance afterwards. Far more important than how good or bad any particular leader is, is for Australian voters to engage more thoroughly with democracy. Because when they understand it, they will get far more from it. If we knew as little about how our cars work as we do about democracy we would all be using public transport.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/operation-wipeout-labors-plan-to-rebuild-20120724-22nl7.html
This mornings link is again just some ones opinion mixed with news reporting.
Yet it talks for great numbers of us, from all sides of politics.
Yesterdays poll did too not a leftist one , maybe the reverse but known to be just about right, historical.
I have again and again, said Gillard can not win back, the brief, very brief, popularity she had, mostly before she took the leadership.
She lacks the skill and understanding, the very fuel of politics.
She appears to be good in Cabernet, but her out pourings are not, cash for clunkers much more.
My thoughts are now general currency out there, but they in truth are muffled!
Our branches are dieing.
Our membership too.
Think with me here, a Trade Unionist till death, I speak for my ex members, they will not vote Gillard!
EVER.
I am aware of the power and interest behind Abbott.
*But no less*
Than the HSU scandal, Union heads, on behalf of?
Do not tell me members it is a lie!
Have installed and propped up a virus within my party.
My party must not die at the hands of its birth parents.
To say voters/members will change their minds is to insult them, each thinks for them selves.