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The Forum > General Discussion > Will Labor ditch Gillard and the carbon tax?

Will Labor ditch Gillard and the carbon tax?

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http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/taxing-the-truth-why-we-must-not-let-abbotts-dogmas-lie-20120706-21mlz.html
This link is one of the mos honest seen in print in about 18 months.
I doubt I will, but would love to see SHADOW MINISTER and others rebuttal of it.
I wish to be clear, the stones are moving under Gillards feet, not before time.
We will see extraordinary things soon, and her removal, bless them for that.
BUT TOO Abbott is to fall, rising on his ability to repeatedly lie, and see a press ever willing to ignore it, he is gone.
All those who have wondered even mourned for so lost a Parliament can Begin to breath again.
In what I see as a beat up, very nearly knowing falsehood, Abbott today rubbished the ALP.
A man without the morals of his youth, he knows his party too is targeting the greens as Labor is.
Hence his stated plan to hold a DD election to re gain the senate.
He verbals us for the same thought?
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 7 July 2012 3:46:30 PM
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Belly,

Ian Robinson is trying to rewrite what Juliar meant ie:

"The Prime Minister's commitment not to introduce a tax on carbon was implicitly premised on her being in a position to keep the commitment, by leading a majority government after the election. This didn't happen, so her pre-election commitment was effectively null and void."

Let's revisit what she actually said, not what this historical revisionist would like to think she meant:

"There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"

NOT if I get a majority government

Juliar Gillard broke a solemn promise, an act of bastardry was committed, in short she lied.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 7 July 2012 4:08:56 PM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

Taken from Belly's link:

1) "A lie is when you say something
is true when you know it is not true. This is
quite different from a commitment which is a
promise to do something in the future."

2) "when Mr Abbott says the PM told a lie, he
is saying something is true when he knows it is
not true." Therefore Mr Abbott is telling a lie.

3) " Whereas the most the PM
can be truthfully accused of is breaking a pre-
election commitment, like John Howard with WorkChoices,
with the GST and "core and non-core promises," or Ted
Baillieu with Victorian teachers salaries."

4) The PM's commitment not to introduce a price on carbon
was implicitly premised on her being in a position to
keep the commitment by leading a majority government
after the election.

This did not happen, so her pre-election
commitment was effectively null and void as the author
points out.

5) "Instead she found herself in a minority government
in which she was not in total control of all the outcomes.
She therefore had to work out a compromise with the
other stakeholders."

6)We are told that "Mr Abbott is reported as saying during
the post-election negotiation that he would "do anything,"
to be PM. This implies that he too, would have accepted a
carbon tax as part of a minority government compromise."

7) As the author states - "To be fair, before the election,
no one was taking seriously the possibility of a hung
parliament. Shared government was not on anyone's agenda."

8) "However, it should be obvious that "majority government"
was implied in her statement, because one logically
cannot make firm commitments on behalf of a possible future
minority government, since one does not have the unfettered
power to carry them out."

9) "To keep calling what the Prime Minster said, "a lie"
is to misuse language, disfigure the debate and debase
politics. And it is to be guilty, as Mr Abbott is, of
telling a lie yourself."
Posted by Lexi, Saturday, 7 July 2012 7:29:08 PM
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cont'd ...

Other interesting items from Belly's link:

1)" When I was in secondary school, my English
class studied a collection of essays ... which
analysed the methods of Nazi propoganda in the
1930s."

2) "there were three components to this -
a) an element of truth, b) gross exageration.
c) constant repetition."

3) "Elements of truth the Opposition is exploiting
are first - that the PM did make an (implied qualified)
commitment before the last election not to introduce
the carbon tax; and second that she has indeed had
legislation passed putting a price on carbon as an
interim measure, before a future carbon-trading scheme
is intorudced a few years down the track."

4) "Mr Abbott's axaggeration of these basic facts are
total distortions of the real situation."

5) "For the repetitions, just watch the TV and listen to
the radio (and read Shadow Minister's posts and threads
on OLO). Every time an Opposition politician gets the
opportunity, they repeat the "Lie" claim over and over
again. As does Shadow Minister. This is clearly a conscious,
concerted and calculated propaganda."

6) "Other aspects of government policy have been given the
same treatment: a charge on carbon polluters becomes
"a great big tax on everyone," a tax that aims to spread
the benefits of the mining boom to the rest of the
community becomes "class warfare," and so on."

7) "By exaggerating a commitment into a "lie to the
Australian people," by exaggerating a charge on carbon
polluters into a "huge tax on evryone," and be repeating
these exaggerations ad infinitum and ad nauseum -
Mr Abbott and the Opposition are lowering the level of
political debate in contemporary Australia to that of
Germany in the '30s."

8) "No one is claiming that Mr Abbott is a Nazi but one thing
has to be asked - why he and the party he leads, are so
doggedly using discredited Nazi propaganda techniques?"
Posted by Lexi, Saturday, 7 July 2012 7:52:09 PM
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Lexi,

Before the election Juliar said:

"There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"

Whine Swan backed her up with:

"We reject the hysterical allegation from the coalition that we are moving towards a carbon tax."

There is nothing implied. It is clear and explicit. Juliar and Swan promised the Australian people that there would be no carbon tax. There were no qualifications implied.

The reason that Abbott can use this to shred labor is because it was such an obvious and blatant breach of trust. I know it, the voters know it, and the only ones that are trying to change history are the tiny disillusioned minority of Labor tragics.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 8 July 2012 5:47:08 AM
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Lexi the link put thoughts I had always held in to words better than I ever could.
I think every one of them is true.
I also honestly see SM as the shadow of all current Liberal thought and action.
Not intended to insult just this, if your God stood in front of the man, and told him this was the truth it is, within a Milli second SM would say it is not so.
My thoughts about Gillard remain, she can not ever get traction, she never did.
She has held many views some totally against one she held before.
She did advice Rudd not to continue with climate change law.
She did say why raise pensions they do not vote for us.
She did not knowingly lie on this subject.
The opposition, its supporters knowingly AS A TACTIC LIE DAILY on the issue.
History will question us all, for putting up with her and Abbott.
But both are well on the way to being history, we should be glad I am.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 8 July 2012 6:21:27 AM
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