Dear Josephus,

Which marriage vows would you like me to read? Today
most people prefer to write their own. And they are
personal.

As for your giving me the number
that over 70 percent of heterosexual marriages last
a lifetime time - adds nothing to this discussion.

It will be interesting to see how long same-sex marriages
last - once they have been given the go-ahead.

As said, I simply cannot take the likes of *josephus* seriously. There has been a plethora of informed debate to rebut his factually inconsistent bigotry, but like *Runner* he simply refuses to accept them and chooses to reject them without really being able to substantiate why. He is a "faithful" zealot, no doubt, much like any other around the world of whichever persuasion.

..

Posted by Josephus, Monday, 25 June 2012 1:32:40 PM

" ... Equally Priests who practise homosexual acts with minors or within the members of the Church must be excluded from ministry within the Church. ... "

Thus, based on the above, it appears that you *Josephus* aren't even capable of remembering what you write? And no, the pedophiles and those who have and do cover up for them need to go to gaol, at the very least.

..

*Joespehus* is typical of those who refuse to grow, refuse to change, and thus, like the proverbial "pillar of salt" have stultified in their perpetual obsession of looking back to old cultures and old books which I seriously doubt that he truly understands.

As my favorite Churchie and Father to me in more ways than one used to say visa the catholic church:

" ... You will know they have changed when they have a black, female Pope. ... "

And of course, in his Church, the likes of *Lexi* carry the inherent potential, like gay people, to go all the way to the top.

(rolls for conversion ;-) <snicker, snicker> )

Thereafter, and as said on numerous occasions, their like are welcome to their beliefs, however, in my book that does not extend to their desire to have others conform to their misguided (in my view) ideology.

..

If they were to simply say, well, for the following reasons and based on our belief, we do not marry gay people and otherwise do not accept gay people into our communion, however, we respect the rights of others visa vi "freedom of religion and belief" to do otherwise.

But no, perhaps because of their obsessive belief regarding their imagined "duty" to "preach the good word," they seek to actively push their views much as a drug dealer pushes heroin.

..

Incidentally, I do seem to recall someone saying that for a brief period, rome did actually "marry" gay people. Perhaps someone who knows can confirm that with citation.

..

And again, re their views on marriage, what they must understand is that what they consider to be the basis for marriage turns on their own religious beliefs, but for a host of reasons it is best that in the future they be compelled to respect the freedom of religion and belief of others.

It would have been better had they come to this of their own accord, but now it is better that they are sorted, sheep from goats and chaff from seed.

Dear DreamOn,

I recall reading in Richard Dawkins ,
"The God Delusion," about a twelve year old boy in
Ohio in 2004 who won the right in court to
wear a T-shirt to school bearing the words:

"Homosexuality is a sin. Islam is a lie,
abortion is murder. Some issues are just
black and white."

Dawkins tells us that:

"The school told him not to wear the T-shirt -
and the boy's parents sued the school.
The parents might have had a conscionable case if
they had based it on the First Amendment's
guarantee of freedom of speech. But they didn't.
Instead, their lawyers appealed to the
constitutional right of freedom of religion.
Their victorious lawsuit was supported by
the Alliance Defence Fund of Arizona whose
business it is to "press the legal battle for
religious freedom."

As Dawkins states:

"If such people took their stand on the right to
free speech, one might reluctantly sympathise.
But that isn't what its all about. "The right
to be Christian" seems to mean "the right to
poke your nose into other people's lives."
In other words - "If you try to stop me from
insulting homosexuals it violates my freedom
of prejudice."