Thanks Lexi.
Divergence not name dropping, I an ex trade union official, after many years in construction government and private, I have some understanding.
The debate, NATIONALLY is dragging its b*m on the ground.
Talking of how hard it is to get in to mining, inferring that low wages are being paid to FOREIGNERS! taking our jobs.
JUNK!
Unhappy as I am and was about it, a black list hidden but in fact exists between these firms.
Some sacked for such as drug use drunkenness at work, inflicting floggings on work mates, mental health issues, a host of welfounded reasons, see them never again get a chance in such jobs.
Others, sacked for personality problems with some bad boss, end up on that list, a list no union official can see/prove exists or fight.
In 1970 firms first started profiling workers before employing them.
Some of those questions intruded on privacy, not answering them finished your chances.
Do we want to admit some many, a whole lot are unsuited to this work.
Unions do there best work in things they have a right to be involved in, no right to tell a boss who to employ exists.
Yet word of mouth worker to boss union to boss, boss requesting both, sees jobs given.
A nothing story here it is just the start, a needed start to get these things up and away, Divergence, you are aware these sites are more non union than union?

Belly,

Let's assume that you and Yabby are correct, that Gina Rinehart et al. are all on the up and up, and hiring foreigners for only the noblest of motives, not to get cheap labour, avoid training apprentices, or get people who will put up with substandard working conditions. Furthermore, they offer opportunities for training and employment to every Australian who wants them and is suited to the work.

I am concerned that what will happen is this: The 457 visa holders reach the end of their term, and the mining companies sponsor them for permanent residency. (Why not? It is easier than breaking in new people if these ones go home.) Approximately half of 457 visa holders end up getting permanent residency right now. Eventually, the mining boom will end, as such things always do, and the mining companies will cut their foreign employees loose and wash their hands of them.

Living costs are high and jobs will be short in WA, so great numbers of them will then cross the Nullarbor to Sydney and Melbourne, where half of skilled migrants currently end up. They will swell the numbers of those 4 out of 5 skilled migrants who are unemployed or underemployed in Melbourne, and the locals and earlier migrants will face more and more competition for jobs, housing, public services, and amenities. Money to fix the infrastructure backlog will have to be diverted to meet the needs of more and more people, so nothing will be done about deathtrap roads, long waiting lists in hospitals, etc. Open space will become scarcer as more and more land is eaten up by development, the koala will be declared endangered in more places as they lose their habitat to developers, water will be more expensive, etc., etc. I suspect that most people there would be better off without the current mining boom and without the extra people.

(cont'd)

(cont'd)

The days when mass migration was in the interests of the whole population are well and truly past. Even the government's own Productivity Commission admits it, as in the 2006 report into immigration.

"Most of the economic benefits associated with an increase in skilled migration accrues to the immigrants themselves. For existing residents, capital owners receive additional income, with owners of capital in those sectors experiencing the largest output gains enjoying the largest gains in capital income. On the other hand, the real average annual incomes of existing resident workers grows more slowly than in the base-case, as additional immigrants place downward pressure on real wages. The economic impact of skilled migration is small when compared with other drivers of productivity and income per capita." (p. 154)

http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/9438/migrationandpopulation.pdf

This was reaffirmed in the Productivity Commission's latest annual report and is also consistent with a number of reports from around the world, such as the 1997 Academy of Sciences report in the US and the 2008 House of Lords report in the UK.

*I am concerned that what will happen is this: The 457 visa holders reach the end of their term, and the mining companies sponsor them for permanent residency*

Divergence, that depends purely on Govt policy. Guest worker schemes
make perfect sense in economies where there is a huge variation in
demand for labour. Switzerland used to employ around a million
Italians a year, but they would all go home again, with their
bulging bank accounts.

Right now I'd guess that there are far more students who study here
and then apply for permanent residency, causing problems in our
economy, then 457 workers. Fact is Aussies simply don't want to
do some jobs.

Fact is too, that city Australians need farming and mining to keep
the economic wheels on the cart as the rest of Australia is largely
uncompetitive in a global sense. So without those two industries you
would be living in a banana republic. Those two industries cannot
function without labour and neither of them is in the cushy city,
but in the country, where most Australians simply don't want to live.

Divergence do I see xenophobia in those posts?
Tell me, if we said no , and if the project never took place, would you feel all warm and comfy?
And do you understand how many 457s have been used in the last ten years? all over Australia?
Are you aware this hit the headlines because it is an AGREEMENT? ensuring wages and much more?

How do you get xenophobia out of what I said, Belly? Where exactly did I say anything about the foreigners being bad people? So long as Australians, especially local Aboriginal people, get a fair chance at those jobs before they are offered to foreigners, and the guest workers aren't exploited and eventually go home, I don't have a problem. What I am concerned about is unending population growth, as I believe that it is harmful to the environment, promotes inequality, reduces our security in what is likely to become a very dangerous world, and is damaging to the quality of life of ordinary people, without any compensating economic benefits. My concern is that the 457 visas are being used as a back door for permanent residency. I would be just as concerned if the high population growth were coming from big Australian families.

It is likely that ordinary Australians have been hurt a lot more by the doubling or tripling of house prices that has occurred (mostly) as a result of population growth than they have personally benefited from the mining boom. Do you dispute this?