Dear Steven,

I'm really going to have to think about giving up OLO for a while. I find myself getting crabbier  than a Darwin mud flat every post you lot make on this issue and you are actually one of the better ones.

There was a time I would gently prod you in the right direction through reasoned argument and pleasant discourse, all very PC of course. Now I just feel like wringing your necks.

Alan Aan is not charged with atheism for God’s sake. He is charged with blasphemy defined by Indonesian law as ’publicly expressing feelings or doing something that spreads hatred, abuse or taints certain religions in a way that could cause someone to disbelieve religion.’

Note the word ’publicly’.

For crying out loud think about it, Indonesian citizens must place one of the following on their identity cards — Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism. One is certainly not monotheistic and two are positively anti-theistic. 

Julia Gillard has little to worry about.

Sheesh!

Are the actions of the Indonesian police of a concern to those with a more liberal  cultural perspective? Of course! Are they a reason to start Los Alomos in outback NSW? Definitely not!

csteele,

"There was a time I would gently prod you in the right direction through reasoned argument and pleasant discourse, all very PC of course."

You are arrogant, aren't you? How many times have your arguments/facts been found to be flawed because you didn't do your homework? Indeed, you confessed on another forum that you tended to accept 'information' that supported your world-view.

PC? Exactly what has that achieved? I was taught, as were many, many others, that one didn't offend others' religions and also accepted people whatever race they were. Common courtesy - nothing new there. However, that didn't mean ignoring the elephant in the room. In the early 19th century, the British outlawed the practice of suttee. What would the PC crowd have done? At a feminist meeting, I raised the issue of FGM and was informed that I would be offending cultural sensitivities to even discuss this appalling practice.

Those who work with and help refugees are not burdened with PC. They can't afford to be.

As for uncritically accepting Islam whatever the beliefs/practices ... An increasing number of Muslim intellectuals are raising their voices about the horrors committed in Islam's name; these same intellectuals issue warnings to the west.

However, they "are not heard above the din of so-called western "intellectuals".One writer observes that by ignoring the facts,"the high priests of political correctness" view their suffering of no consequence - effectively relegating them to the status of the 'white man's burden.' He further compared this with the way western "intellectuals" viewed the victims of Stalin and Mao.

Iranian intellectuals and dissidents look to the west for moral support against Islamic atrocities in their country. Intellectuals and dissidents regularly "disappear". By 2000, Iranian refugees were the largest group in the world, numbering 2 million. Speak to any Iranian in this country ...

Dear Danielle,

Am I arrogant? Possibly, I personally would think I'm increasingly belligerent which is still all in all an undesirable trait.

Should I have said "There was a time I would gently 'try and' prod you in 'my' direction through reasoned argument and pleasant discourse”? Probably.

You said; “Those who work with and help refugees are not burdened with PC. They can't afford to be.” I do volunteer in that field and find a degree of PC/good manners pretty handy in developing and maintaining relationships.

Have I been “uncritically accepting Islam whatever the beliefs/practices”? Not a chance.

You asked “How many times have your arguments/facts been found to be flawed because you didn't do your homework? “. Well there has probably been a few, though not many in the cause of incitement or fear-mongering.

But I'm not sure how much criticism I should be accepting from someone who claims 2 million Iranians are the largest refugee group in the world when there are over 5 million Palestinian refugees, many languishing for decades in camps.

My world view recognises them, yours it appears doesn't.

If you consider that arrogance I will wear the label with pride.

csteele,

Why raise the issue of Palestinians on this discussion? However, if you must ...

Five million Palestinians languishing in camps. You mean languishing in camps in Arab states.

How come such a high number? The numbers leaving Israeli territory in the 1948 exodus numbered 750,000 Arabs? This was less than the number of Jews forcibly expelled from Arab states with just the clothes on their backs; their monies, properties, schools, businesses, etc. etc. all appropriated by the relevant regimes. Indeed, more than 50% of Israeli Jews are descended from these refugees, descendants of whom historically belonged to the land, always having had a presence in the region.

Palestinian refugee status is currently passed onto all male descendants. Perhaps with sexual equality, refugee status will be eventually passed to all females at least doubling that number to 10 million. Currently the Australian population is just under 23 million. Should they all decide to come to Australia (or go elsewhere) do you think they would be recognised as refugees?

Abbas recognises that the 'right of return' for the 5 million 'refugees' is illogical, indeed a nonsense. Israel's total population is just under 8 million of whom 75% are Jewish, 20.5 % are Arab. Despite your claims of ethnic cleansing, the Arab population has higher birth rates than the Jewish.

Now that the Palestinians have a state, surely they are no longer refugees.

Right of return has no legal standing anywhere. The idea was floated when refugees, both Jewish and Arab, were at their original number – it applied to both groups. Do you believe that Arab states would accept Jewish refugees?

All fair-minded people wish to see the Palestinians prosperously settled in their homeland; and most importantly, both Israel and a Palestinian state living in peace and harmony. The Palestinian leadership has been opportunistic and worse. The Palestinians deserve better.

Incidentally, good manners towards refugees is expected. PC infers that the client is fundamentally 'not up to snuff' – it is patronising.

What it all means is that in a few short years the oil & gas reserves in the Timor Sea, Greater Sunrise etc will be strategically important to the US, & can I refer to my earlier post here (24 Sep 2006) in regards to this emerging threat? Hence new US base @ Mandorah. If Indon fishing boats remain able to land here with impunity, the least serious threat will be via a biological vector - Foot & Mouth or Rabies when their on board pets run ashore - see the Roper River Bar events a few years back when up to a dozen expat Indons decided on a fishing trip over here that went pear shaped. Kopassus have been trained here for years & the 'fishing' boats are another method of reconnaisance. The Conoco-Phillips LNG and no doubt the soon to be built Inpex LNG plant will equally be able to be breached and taken by hostiles in a matter of minutes unless the clowns in Malfunction Junction realise just how vulnerable they really are...