TBC,

Your post is a perfect example of the idiocy of using political dogma in all aspects of life over results based experience.

I never went to boot camp or use corporal punishment at home, nor do I actively advocate boot camps. However, in extreme cases where all else has failed, boot camps have a proven track record in rehabilitating a certain portion of those that attend these camps.

Drug rehabilitation clinics use a similar philosophy, and to get on your political soap box and claim that it is a right wing conspiracy is moronic

I wouldn't say I was a supporter of boot camps.

But it got me thinking about acquaintances of mine. Their fourteen year old daughter has gone totally off the rails and there doesn't appear to be any help to take her in hand. This child a couple of years ago was still in primary school, was musically gifted, regularly took part in musical theatre, had parents who were supportive and interested in her progress in school and sporting activities. She has turned against both her parents, will not take direction of any sort, won't stay at school (if they can get her there). She goes out and doesn't come home, etc, etc. Her parents have resorted on several occasions to relying on the police to find her and bring her home. They are helpless to control this girl. They have bent over backwards contacting people, psychologists and the like - only to be told that if the minor doesn't come voluntarily, there is nothing they can do.
If this continues, this child will get into serious trouble, she now appears to have no respect for anyone, has become violent at home and a threat to the psychological well-being of her younger brother and sister.

What does a parent do under such circumstances?

Really SM, nominating two wayward children who changed their behaviour because of a 'boot camp' as evidence of overall success of the concept/practice is hardly convincing, except to you of course.

Unless, of course, we are talking at crosspurposes?

Is this what you mean:

http://www.bootycamp.com.au/?gclid=CJC2t52jlrACFeFfpgod7UdD7w

http://www.bootcampsaustralia.com/00006/QLD/brisbane-city/

http://bootcamp.com.au/

I concede defeat SM. You wuz right. These camsp will soon knock the young lads into shape, complete with a boofy tatoo and shaved head.

But this is more what I had in mind:

http://www.pierretristam.com/Bobst/07/cn101107.htm

And I suggest you have a read of this Australian Institute of Criminology paper, July 1995, Number 46, by Lynn Atkinson, 'Boot camps and justice: a contradiction in terms?'.

You have to Google it I'm afraid.

If you can find some positive evidence, do post and I'll read it.

Anecdote does not count.

For those who cannot be bothered to Google, here's an extract of the flavour:

"Boot camps generally offer reduced sentences to eligible offenders
in exchange for their participation in a regimen which eschews individualism and promotes inter-dependence, and which demands unquestioning compliance, discipline, hard work, and physical toughness. The programs are intense and unrelenting, and aim to
"break down [the inmates']individualism" as an ex-military superintendent of a prison boot camp once put it, in order to recast the inmate in a disciplined, conformist mould (Hoffman 1990, p. 32)."

As I said before, gormless, dangerous, mad USA notions of Wild Bill Hiccup the justice maker (peacemaker?) in Boot Hill County.

Poirot

Before SM suggest Boot Hill County as a cure, we probably all know someone like that.

Our neighbours had a sole child, a real b....er, and they allowed him to be so, not noticing it even, but he turned out OK, went to uni, is engaged in doing 'good works', although never quite as you describe above.

However, my wife has a school friend with two daughters, one a Dux the other could be the person you described, to a T.

Given good luck, and perhaps not more than the ageing process, she went to uni and made a 'recovery'.

Well, stopped being such an obvious trial to all and sundry anyway.

TBC,

Yeah, I'm sort of hoping this kid might meet someone in her travels that may have some positive influence on her. Sometimes all it takes is for that to happen and the young person all of a sudden gets a new perspective on things. Adolescence throws up all sorts of challenges, hormonal and behavioural. At the moment she seems more "lost" than anything

TBC

You provide an article of anecdotes and then tell me not to. I know of two parents that have sent their children (not convicted of any crime) to private boot camps for serious behavioural problems with positive results. I was not talking of a one size fits all penal system, but rather the private system, which you would have picked up if you had actually read my post and not simply hopped on your hobby horse to attack me.

However this study into correctional boot camps over decades indicates that while recidivism was not reduced, social attitudes were, greatly improving re integration into society in comparison to other juvenile correctional facilities. Which shows that behaviour improvements, which is the point I was making, is a positive feature of these camps.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/197018.pdf

"Boot camps were almost universally successful in improving inmates’ attitudes and behavior during the course of the program; they also produced safer environments for staff and residents, presumably due to their highly structured atmosphere and activities. Several studies indicated that adult boot camp participants had better attitudes about their confinement experiences and had improved their prosocial attitudes more than comparison group members.

One study concluded that inmates in adult boot camps had increased self-esteem, reduced antisocial attitudes, increased problem-solving
skills, improved coping skills, and improved social support.

In other studies, boot camp inmates improved their self-esteem and standardized education scores in reading and math more than comparison group members. Anxiety and depression declined to a greater degree among juveniles in boot camps than among those in comparison facilities.

Dysfunctional impulsivity (the inability to control one’s impulses) increased among youths in comparison facilities but decreased among
boot camp participants. Social attitudes improved among youths in boot camps, but worsened among those in comparison facilities."