India is now applying for full membership of the Shanghai Co-operation Organisation.This is a security alliance between Russia,China and Uzbek,Taijik,Kaz...stans etc.In 2005 India,Iran,Mongolia and Pakistan sent reps.

You will remember recently that India did not send it's leader to CHOGM so Obama asked Labor to sell India Uranium to get them onside.

The BRICS nations are now Brazil,Russia, India, China and South Africa.This is a separate trading block that now is on the path to developing it's own monetary alliance to counter the Western disease of printing to much to pay off debts.Japan and China now trade directly excluding US $ as an intermediary currency.

The Western economies continue to deteriorate with the JP Morgan fall and Greece refusing austerity measures.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ You will see on Global Research that the West is now trying to blame 911 attacks on Iran and are back to warning of their nuclear danger.

Caught between unhappy home populations and the rising power of the East,war does seem very enticing to some of our so called leaders.

Well Arjay, this alliance doesn't seem to be a good strategy for India - tonight they just lost a game to Israel and are on the way to lose their world-championship in chess, despite the games being held in Moscow!

Israel now leads India 4-3, 5 more games to go, should be interesting!

See also Yuyutsu Global Reserach TV 5/8/12 Joseph Trento being interviewed by James Corbett.Japan either has nuclear weapons or can create them within 3 mths.The USA against the NNPT has let Japan take all this weapons grade plutonium.They have defied their own treaty to make profits.

Note also that Bush,Blair and Cheney found guilty of war crimes in an international court like that of the Neuremberg Trials.

The psychopaths of our banking military industrial complex control our Govts and you and others had better learn what is best for your survival very soon.

A tool at work?

Just looking at one aspect... If by "the West" you were drawing your conclusions from the article, IRAN ACCUSED OF BEING BEHIND 9/11 ATTACKS by Julie Levesque, then the GFC has caused a significantly worse contraction than anyone thought… That is unless the West in its entirety now consists of one person - Fiona Havlish.

"Fiona Havlish, in her own right and as executrix of the estate of Donald G Havlish, Jr., Deceased" brought the civil suit...

Is she just a tool? If she is... whose?

WMtrevor the GFC is infact a depression.Unless we get control of our money creation,this will last for years and like the 1930's depression lead to WW3.

They had a big recssion in the early 1920's,then followed the Great Depression.This was again brought on by the US Fed and the banks of Europe.From the 1930's through WW2 times were really tough economically.With debts due to the war things did not start to get better until the 1960's.This was 30 yrs of really tough times brought about by a few greedy people.The same scenario is happening right now.

The East rightly does no want the elite's new World Order since they will untimately bear the brunt of economic santions,austerity measures and population control.The West have the lunatic demons at the helm who are hell bent on controlling everything and everyone.

Interesting.

>>The BRICS nations are now Brazil,Russia, India, China and South Africa. This is a separate trading block that now is on the path to developing it's own monetary alliance<<

I wonder how they see this working differently to other such experiments.

Like the Euro.

Any thoughts on that, Arjay?

pericles th BRICS rightly want to be free from the Western financial farce of derivatives and the printing of money to pay for produce.The West have let these financial lunatics destroy our economies.Their phoney money has become more important than the real economy.

The BRICS can expand their own econimies and trade their way out of our disease.The Western Debt cannot be repaid and it shouldn't via austerity measures on people who had no hand in this fraud of Fanny May,bailouts and credit default swaps etc.These criminals should never have been bailed out so ordinary people are placed in their servitude via debt.

The West under the Central Banksters and NATO have us on a perilious trip to economic destruction and war.It is all totally unnecessary.

Any chance you might have another look at the question, Arjay?

Re: "a separate trading block that now is on the path to developing it's own monetary alliance", I was wondering whether you had by any chance thought how this might be constructed?

Do you mean a monetary alliance in the same way that the Euro is a monetary alliance? Are you suggesting they will be producing their own currency?

>>th BRICS rightly want to be free from the Western financial farce of derivatives and the printing of money to pay for produce<<

If they are not going to be "printing money", how will they "pay for produce"? Is it some kind of bartering system they have in mind?

This is where you lose track of reality, by the way.

>>The Western Debt cannot be repaid and it shouldn't via austerity measures on people who had no hand in this fraud of Fanny May,bailouts and credit default swaps etc.These criminals should never have been bailed out so ordinary people are placed in their servitude via debt<<

Ummm... the "ordinary people" were the ones who took on the debt in the first place, Arjay. And far from being "placed in servitude" if they could not repay the loan, vast numbers of them simply walked away, leaving the keys to the property in the hands of the lenders. Who then had to revalue their portfolios downwards, and bingo! Financial crisis... for the Banks.

You seem to have this blind spot when it comes to financial matters, as we all know. So it may be a good idea to follow the advice of my dear old granny, when she said "It's better to keep quiet and let people think you are stupid, than open your mouth and prove it".

Pericles you again miss the point.Ordinary people have to take debt because these private banks express their productivity as debt.Without debt in this slavery system there would not be enough money for the economy to function.

Don't you get it? When private banks express your productivity + inflation as debt,eventually all the money in the economy will equal all the debt.We then have a system collapse.

The BRICS are not having a single currency like the EURO.They will keep their own and trade without the parasitic EURO or the $ US.The Chinese economy gets 80% of new money from Govt bank,so they are not exposed to as much debt.The central banks of Europe fear this break away movement because many other debt ridden countries will follow.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=30944 Paul Wilmont has determined that the derivative market is 20 times the size of the world economy.This is why we need a Glass Steagall Act to separate the toxic derivatives from the real economy.You and others may only get 5 or 10 cents in the $ if they are not isolated from productive investments.

I think granny was right, Arjay.

Not a single word of your last post makes any sense at all.

Although your use of "the" came close on occasions.

You don't want to understand as usual Pericles.Do you still insist that the US Federal Resreve is a Govt organisation?

As you know, Arjay, I don't "insist" anything.

>>Do you still insist that the US Federal Resreve is a Govt Organisation?<<

I merely deal in facts.

Fact #1: The members of the Board of Governors are nominated by the President of the United States and confirmed by the U.S. Senate

Does that make it a government organization?

Fact #2: The US Congress establishes the objectives for monetary policy in the Federal Reserve Act. These are the mandated goals that the Fed is required to aim at, and their performance measured against. These are presently to balance "maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates".

Does that make it a government organization?

Gee willikins, Arjay, how can anyone possibly work out what's going on when all we have to guide us are such feeble and insubstantial facts as that?

And while I'm here. From your earlier post:

>>Ordinary people have to take debt because these private banks express their productivity as debt<<

No-one has to take debt, Arjay. They choose to.

>>Without debt in this slavery system there would not be enough money for the economy to function<<

Ignoring the "slavery system" comment, which is nonsense, you are right that debt is an essential component of growth. Funny, though. I thought that you were strongle opposed to debt, and were only interested in hard currency - gold-backed, for preference. Am I wrong?

>>When private banks express your productivity + inflation as debt,eventually all the money in the economy will equal all the debt<<

I'll bet you don't even understand what you have written there, Arjay. Which is one of the basic problems that you have when sharing your thoughts on this forum.

Listen to granny. She's usually right.

Debt is slavery if your productivity gets created by private banks from nothing to be repaid with interest.Who should own your increases in productivity?

Sigh… "Listen to granny. She's usually right."

Considerate but wasted advice.

Arjay's unlikely to listen to granny as in this fairytale version of the world she has great big eyes, ears and teeth.

There's even a grim rumour that Tom Thumb's first name stands for Theory of Money.

I know, WmTrevor.

>>Considerate but wasted advice<<

They do say it is a sign of insanity to repeat the same actions and expect different results. But somehow I feel really sorry for Arjay. His life must be unbearable, believing the stuff that he believes. A Robin Williams line from "Good Morning Vietnam" springs to mind, with Arjay being in more dire need of... etc.

http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/g/good-morning-vietnam-script-transcript.html

But honestly Arjay, how can you write this stuff with a straight face. Really, it defies belief sometimes.

>>Debt is slavery if your productivity gets created by private banks from nothing to be repaid with interest.Who should own your increases in productivity?<<

Sentences like that are, frankly, quite surreal. Much like, I suspect, the poetry of the Asgoths of Kria.

"During a recitation by their poet-master Grunthust the Flatulent of his poem 'Ode To A Small Lump Of Green Putty I Found In My Armpit One Midsummer Morning', four of his audience died of internal haemorrhaging, and the president of the Mid-Galactic Art-Snobling Council survived by gnawing one of his own legs off. Grunthust was reported to have been 'disappointed' by the poems reception, and was about to embark on a reading of his twelve-book epic entitled 'My Favourite Bathtime Gurgles' when his own major intestine, in a desperate attempt to save humanity, leapt straight up though his neck, and throttled his brain." Douglas Adams: The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

So, be very, very careful, Arjay.

I've come all over, well, moist - teary-eyed even... such a gut-wrenching story.

But we learn, at least in the case of the Asgoths, where their brains are kept.

"in a desperate attempt to save humanity" doesn't actually tell us whether humanity was saved.

Here's hoping.

Pericles,you must be in denial of private banks creating money from nothing? How did the derviative market become 20 times that of the World GDP? Who created all this worthless money that perverts real productivity?

Simple logic is that money has no intrinsic worth and money is the vehicle to express our productivity.It is our productivity that has value.Who should own our productivity via creating the money to equal it?

You cannot answer that is why you again revert to ad hominem.

Cannot answer Pericles? Are you just another gutless wonder who has not the courage of your deceptions?

Hey, can't a guy take a day off from the Forum to grind his plutocratic capitalist boot-heels into the faces of the whimpering poor without upsetting you, Arjay?

>>Cannot answer Pericles? Are you just another gutless wonder who has not the courage of your deceptions?<<

Let's have a look at your last offering.

>>you must be in denial of private banks creating money from nothing?<<

I have told you before, they don't create "money from nothing". Double-entry bookkeeping ensures that for every credit there is a debit, and vice versa.

>>How did the derviative market become 20 times that of the World GDP? Who created all this worthless money that perverts real productivity?<<

It's quite simple. The money has not been "created' at all.

It does not exist. It never will exist.

The total you are talking about is made up of contracts that largely balance each other out.

If there are a billion dollars worth of put contracts and a billion dollars worth of call contracts, all based upon the same underlying asset, you have a "market" of two billion. And a net economic impact of... $zero.

And you put your finger on the key point yourself:

>>Simple logic is that money has no intrinsic worth<<

Abso-bloody-lutely true. Money only has an identifiable value when it is exchanged for something else. On that, you and I are in total agreement.

So, when you are talking about the derivative markets, you can easily see that the dollars they are talking about are not "real" dollars at all. They have not been exchanged for anything. They are not the value of the transaction, just the notional value of the underlying asset.

And the underlying asset is completely unaffected by the transactions themselves.

That money does not exist, except as a number on a computer somewhere. It will never become real, or enter the economy, or need to be repaid.

It's just a number.

Double entry book keeping BS.Explain how the derivative market is 20 times the GDP of the world.

The IMF admitted to creating Cyber money and the US Fed put the US people in $15 trillion debt.A Ron Paul initiated partial audit found another $15 trillion in off balance sheet loans.Where did they get this money from?

Somehow I don't think you are paying attention, Arjay.

>>Double entry book keeping BS.Explain how the derivative market is 20 times the GDP of the world.<<

The observation on double-entry bookkeeping was relevant to the "money from nothing" issue. It doesn't just appear from nothing, as there is a corresponding entry on the other side of the balance sheet.

And the derivative market only appears to be "20 times the GDP of the world" because the arithmetic used to reach that number consists counting debits and credits at the same time. Thus the numbers have no real relationship to each other.

Let's suppose for a moment that I lend you $50. The state of the world economy hasn't changed as a result of that transaction. But if you add the two numbers together, you get $100.

Substitute trillions on each side of the ledger, and that's where your "20 times the GDP of the world" comes from. I lend you $50 trillion dollars. You owe me $50 trillion dollars. The state of the world economy hasn't been altered one iota by that transaction, yet the headline number would be $100 trillion dollars.

Here's an example, from the 2010 ISDA market survey.

"As in past surveys, the $26.3 trillion notional amount was approximately evenly divided between bought and sold protection: bought protection notional amount was approximately $13.3 trillion and sold protection was about $13.0 trillion"

http://www.isda.org/statistics/recent.html#2010mid

Does that help?

And I'm intrigued by this:

>>A Ron Paul initiated partial audit found another $15 trillion in off balance sheet loans.Where did they get this money from?<<

Surely, even a "partial audit" would be able to discover the source of the $15 trillion, would it not? If it couldn't, how do they know it exists at all?

Are there any references to this "partial audit" that we can check?