Hey, can't a guy take a day off from the Forum to grind his plutocratic capitalist boot-heels into the faces of the whimpering poor without upsetting you, Arjay?

>>Cannot answer Pericles? Are you just another gutless wonder who has not the courage of your deceptions?<<

Let's have a look at your last offering.

>>you must be in denial of private banks creating money from nothing?<<

I have told you before, they don't create "money from nothing". Double-entry bookkeeping ensures that for every credit there is a debit, and vice versa.

>>How did the derviative market become 20 times that of the World GDP? Who created all this worthless money that perverts real productivity?<<

It's quite simple. The money has not been "created' at all.

It does not exist. It never will exist.

The total you are talking about is made up of contracts that largely balance each other out.

If there are a billion dollars worth of put contracts and a billion dollars worth of call contracts, all based upon the same underlying asset, you have a "market" of two billion. And a net economic impact of... $zero.

And you put your finger on the key point yourself:

>>Simple logic is that money has no intrinsic worth<<

Abso-bloody-lutely true. Money only has an identifiable value when it is exchanged for something else. On that, you and I are in total agreement.

So, when you are talking about the derivative markets, you can easily see that the dollars they are talking about are not "real" dollars at all. They have not been exchanged for anything. They are not the value of the transaction, just the notional value of the underlying asset.

And the underlying asset is completely unaffected by the transactions themselves.

That money does not exist, except as a number on a computer somewhere. It will never become real, or enter the economy, or need to be repaid.

It's just a number.

Double entry book keeping BS.Explain how the derivative market is 20 times the GDP of the world.

The IMF admitted to creating Cyber money and the US Fed put the US people in $15 trillion debt.A Ron Paul initiated partial audit found another $15 trillion in off balance sheet loans.Where did they get this money from?

Somehow I don't think you are paying attention, Arjay.

>>Double entry book keeping BS.Explain how the derivative market is 20 times the GDP of the world.<<

The observation on double-entry bookkeeping was relevant to the "money from nothing" issue. It doesn't just appear from nothing, as there is a corresponding entry on the other side of the balance sheet.

And the derivative market only appears to be "20 times the GDP of the world" because the arithmetic used to reach that number consists counting debits and credits at the same time. Thus the numbers have no real relationship to each other.

Let's suppose for a moment that I lend you $50. The state of the world economy hasn't changed as a result of that transaction. But if you add the two numbers together, you get $100.

Substitute trillions on each side of the ledger, and that's where your "20 times the GDP of the world" comes from. I lend you $50 trillion dollars. You owe me $50 trillion dollars. The state of the world economy hasn't been altered one iota by that transaction, yet the headline number would be $100 trillion dollars.

Here's an example, from the 2010 ISDA market survey.

"As in past surveys, the $26.3 trillion notional amount was approximately evenly divided between bought and sold protection: bought protection notional amount was approximately $13.3 trillion and sold protection was about $13.0 trillion"

http://www.isda.org/statistics/recent.html#2010mid

Does that help?

And I'm intrigued by this:

>>A Ron Paul initiated partial audit found another $15 trillion in off balance sheet loans.Where did they get this money from?<<

Surely, even a "partial audit" would be able to discover the source of the $15 trillion, would it not? If it couldn't, how do they know it exists at all?

Are there any references to this "partial audit" that we can check?