Well I was the first to say no to the unfair mining tax, but I have to say, something has to be done about the way these companies keep taking away staff and making it near impossible for some industries to survive, outside of mining.

I have recently retired from retail, after some 35 odd years, and I can tell you, that is a very sorry sector indeed.

They simply cannot compete on wages and conditions and, the likes of Coles and wollies knows this, and they also know it's just a matter of time before the competition (small retailers) are a distant memory.

Hospitality and tourism are the same, they simply can compete with the 2 on 2 off being offered at many mine sites today.

Nor can they compete with the $35 to $50 per hour (basic rate) being offered out there.

To simply keep taxing companies is in my view unjust, so instead, perhaps a levy should be imposed, not a tax on profits, but a levy, and this levy should be applied to the payrolls of any provider of staff to the mines, both internal and external.

These levy funds should then be used to subsidize wages in the non mining sector so these non miners can afford to run thier businesses.

This should entice some to stay home and work, as many today leave their families in the quest of the huge dollar.

Of cause this may put preasure on miners to increase wages, but as they increase wages, so to do the levies increase.

Either way, we have to come up with something to stop what is becoming a very real problem, and just another tax won't cut the mustard, as it won't deal with the two speed economy effecting many small, medium and large businesses out there in the non mining sector.

Rechtub, mate, I just can not understand your point.
Free enterprise, not just a word, but a basic requirement in Democracy's.
While as Churchill said Democracy may not be perfect it is far better than anything else.
Workers are small business people, selling the only products they have, time and skill.
Mining, the very thing keeping us from becoming a third world country, gives more than it takes.
I have seen you in print here complaining about unemployment?
Now about workers shortages bought about by the reason we survived the GFC.
I would be more than interested to find why you think the tax is unfair, unemployment too high, and miners taking? workers.
Is unfair

I'm over people like you, rehctub. Constantly bleating the government need to do something. The """Only""" thing the government needs to do is p!ss of out of our way and out of our lives! We don't need anymore stupid levies or taxes, what's the diff' anyway?

We already have the most stupid tax in the world, Payroll Tax. We tax people for employing people, how smart is that?

I hope you're past breeding age, and if not, please consider not doing so, breeding that is!

Another by-product of mining is desensitising social aspects of life. It's all about money, more money & even more money. On top of this many nearby communities cop the negative social outfall from many single men causing havoc with the lives of many families by not stopping at married women. Supply of grog to very young girls is another by-product.
Flying in-out also disrupts the family life of the workers. Mining used to be a community building industry but it's now just blatant exploitation in every aspect.
And, yes, it won't be all that long before it falls into heap when Australian resources become too expensive to export. As with all other bandwagons this one too will derail.

Well il bet that's a load off raw mustard, it's just a pity for you that I abide by the rule of sticks and stones.
Nice rant anyway!
BTW, the levy I have proposed will only effect mining companies and those who provide labor for them, so what's the worry.

As for pay roll tax, I'm with you on that one. Most likely the most stupid tax ever thought of, punishing people for employing to many people.

Belly, there will be little left of free enterprise if something is not done about the imbalance between the mining sector (and those who service it) and the rest of the country.

Indi, the FIFO is being replaced to some extent with companies ( and individuals) paying huge rents instead.

Moranbah is a fine example.

A house there rents for around $3000 per week, while the same house in the suburbs of Brisbane rents for about $400, while one in a non mining remote town rents for about $120 per week, that's if anyone wants it.

Now the problem with this of cause is that the locals can no longer afford to rent in their home town.

Perhaps a levy could be charged on these rental houses taken up by miner as well.

It is hardly fair that locals can't afford the houses and non mining businesses can't hold staff.

*A house there rents for around $3000 per week, while the same house in the suburbs of Brisbane rents for about $400,*

Well there is your answer, Rehctub. Build transportables where
the unemployed are and cart them up to where they are paying 3 grand
a week. A whole new industry for small business!

YES! Yabby that is our country get up think and get rich.
Dongas,those transportable would be snapped up.
In fact at grand a week the houses would stand empty.
If planing let you the next step more permanent trans portables would sell out right.
Rechtub not agreeing with you.
But RM has a habit of being ruder than needed.

Demountables ?
Yes Yabby,
problem is to get past bureaucratic idiocy first. what with all the permits & regulations ?
Plus it would reduce the revenue for Governments. Sorry mate, can't do, makes too much sense.

Yes well transportables are a great idea, and very popular a well. Problem is, getting the correct approvals.

You see on my mining town land, I could fit many of them, they would all have power and all be tenanted, there is also a nice big lagoon, a great recreational spot, fish, canoe, camp fire, the lot.

The council however has other ideas, one house, one block, even if it's 1000 acres.

Now take a smaller block, in town, of say 30 acres.

Ten years ago you could literally take your pick of them for around $30K, whereas today, those same blocks are fetching $900K, so who can afford them, other than large corps.

We have about eight accommodation houses, from cabins, pubs, through to motels.

You are lucky if you can find a spare room, let alone three or four nights, and rents have gone from a few bucks, to $120 per night, all because of mining.

Even regular house rents have gone from about $80 per week, up to $450 in the past five years, and that just forces the locals out.

It has been suggested there are as many people living in camps as there are regular population.

But accommodation is only one point, what about the strain on non mining businesses, do we just accept that.

After all, the mining tax won't help, as it will go in to consolidated revenue, then who knows where from there.

Then there is the local businesses hoping to ride the boom.

The pubs are flying, the engineering works as well, however many others are being left out of the loop, like hardwares, as most mining companies bring their own supplies.

That's another thing that should be looked at.

Here they are (the miners) taking the spoils from these towns, but not supporting them.

This also should be addressed.

With the mining tax, they (the government) will take from these towns, and give to others, meanwhile, the towns just sit helplessly and watch it happen.

That's just not fair.

*The council however has other ideas,*

and

*meanwhile, the towns just sit helplessly and watch it happen.*

The above two, Rehctub, both from your post. Clearly the towns
are not so helpless, perhaps the council is hopeless.

Plenty of solutions, if those on the council, get off their arse.

Rehctub has a point in that, as I posted elsewhere, mining is a special case. Why? Because land owners do not own the minerals in their land. Government owns those rights.
And, as government represents we the people, then we the people own those minersl assets.
Governments,as our elected representatives, have an absolute responsibility to ensure that we get fair value for the sale of our assets.
So, how does a mining company pay for those minerals in the ground, that belong to you and me?
By paying levies and taxes.
Thus any government that fails to get maximum value from the sale of our assets is failing in the same way a real estate agent fails if he or she does not get the highest price possible for a property.
So, I say, full marks to the the government on this particular issue of maximising our return on the sale of our precious mineral assets.
Especially as it's a one shot deal. Whenthey're gone they're gone.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Anto, state governments own the mineral rights, they don't impose taxes or levies, rather, they charge royalties.

The proposed mining tax is a federal tax and, it is designed to share the wealth of all states assetts, with all Australians.

Now while this may appear to be fine, what about the othe taxes collected by state governments that are not shared around.

I don't think it is fair to take states assetts, share them around, but keep what's yours.

However, this is not about the mining tax, it's about how on earth can the non mining sectors survive, having to compete with the wages and conditions offered by miners.

And remember one thing, most trades in the mines were trained by the public sector, then simply poached by the miners.

Hi Rechtub,
Yeah, you're spot on about public sector trained tradesmen.
My brother is a trainer in the mining industry and he tells me that many of the deisel and hydraulic mechanics come out of the military.
But one of the reasons I like the mining tax is that if it is distributed back into society via various programmes, then consumers have a bit more cash in their pockets and so might spend more which will in turn help, for example, the retail sector.
But of course, that only reinforces your other point. Even if retail did improve where would they get more workers from.
Still, it's the right kind of problem to have. Far better than Spain with over 20% unemployment.
That really sucks.
Cheers, anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Anton, I wonder how the likes of Spain calculates. Employment, because if you truly look at our 'real unemployment' it's up there as well.

Now as for staff being poached, just imagine how many of these would have chosen to stay put, had thier employer been able to match, or even come close, to the wages on offer from the mines.

You see the disparity in wages has been caused wholly and soley by the mines, so, shouldn't it be they who pay the price.

I had an experience recently with my tractor and when I questioned the workmanship, the boss threw his hands up and said, I just can't get good mechanic as all I can pay is $56 per hour.

Of cause that $56 turns into $90 that is charged to cover outgoings, yet mechanics at the mines are on around the $150 to $200K per year, 2 on 2 off and chances are this guy, or similar trained them.

Now as for the mining tax, do you seriously think we will see anything out of it.

After all, we have a huge black hole to fill first and jobs are being slashed and iconic brand names like WOW are closing up shop.

Finally, I don't know you stance on our employment/economy, but what I can tell you is that there are thousands of resumes being received by mining companies every day and so many workers/apprentices simp,y view their current job as a 'stop gap' role until they get into the mines.

It is a very serious problem, and one that will come back to bite us big time if we are not careful.

The byproduct of mining is the country is stripped of its natural wealth.
If AU is not properly compensated for its natural wealth, we are idiots.
Tom price has been mined since the early 60's and still going strong.
Keeps Gina in pocket money.
Someone offering bigger wages to gain staff is nothing new.
Mining is not for everybody, so lets not panic.
There is currently 190,000 jobs on offer at 8.3.12 so there are plenty to go around.
What would happen if it were not for immigration.
Mining is updating with driverless trucks, and driverless trains.
This in turn will save them big bucks on wages, so they can pay more tax.

Both rechtub and 579 make good points.
I'd like to think we'll get something from the mining tax. Personally, I would like to see it beefed up. Investment certainly wouldn't be slowed any, that's clear from the way the industry has shrugged off the mining tax and the carbon tax.
In both cases, the miners swore that the industry would be mortally wounded, but actually investment has continued to grow at a phenomenal pace.
The thing I worry about is that this two speed economy is going to send skills offshore in manufacturing and other industry groups and once the mining boom does end, we'll have lost the skills needed to be able to compete in other areas.
But the more I think about it, the more I conclude that we're debating only parts of a huge picture, which is of the developed world going through a transition at least as profound as the Industrial Revolution.
And who can guess what the end result will look like?
As some wit said, "Making predictions is always difficult, especially about the future."
Overall though, I still think I'll stick with optimism. No especially good reason, it's just easier to live with.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au