What do you see as a consequence if Greece defaults any time.

Maybe all of those Greeks who took their pensions there from Australia will return for more.

Hopefully it will demonstrate that there is a huge difference between creating your own economy & making people work instead of just grabbing money from other countries' social benefit funds.

your aussie banker
had to buy them..

[and other 'sovereign bonds']
just to do business there...

[why ya think
all this fuss..re the cost of..'overseas..fund*DING']

Australians should take note. Like always the capitalist cause the havoc with their greed and mismanagement.the boom and bust that capitalism creates. Then as if guiltless the capitalists wants to walk away with his fat stash, whilst demanding the ordinary people, the man in the street, pay the price of their folly.
Riots is Greece today, who knows what's in store for Australia tomorrow. people will not cop it forever.

hate one-liners/quote..579..""What do you see
as a con*sequence..if Greece defaults any time.""

the con/sequence is..[are]
we lend..to pay back..other payedback loans

i pay back..your loaned kickback
by lending ever more..kicking back ever more

till finaly the pile of odious debt
just gets lent..again [but bigger]
from the same banks..to re[pay the same banks

govt bankers lending
from other beurocrat bankers
as the debt blows out bigger to bailout the next bailout
lent from the bankers bailing out their mate's..[its odious debt..wrought by colusion]

it must fail..in time
was designed to fail[thats howe capitalism works
you go broke..i take over...at what pays the rent..after sacking the workers

build/destroy...govts should not lend
they bonds..bind you..into perpetual serfdom
as the bankers blead us dry..lending debt..that didnt egsist..into ursurous proffiteering..[bonus all round]

individual/quote..""Maybe all of those Greeks
who took their pensions there..from Australia will return for more.""

pensions you pay..for in so many ways
as our dollar goes up..their euro's income goes up
little wonder so many pensions incomes go offshore..[means tested?]

heck put a transaction/export tax on their pensioned income
[noting the other pensions in greece too have reduced
you cant get both bits of cheese


""there is a huge difference..
between creating your own economy..& making people work

..instead of just grabbing money
from other countries' social benefit funds.""

you bet mate
too true...but what about our govt bailing out bits of their govt?

or germany paying debts..off
to german banks..[like we underwrite our banks]
caught up in the sovereign bonds scam's

your aussie banker
had to buy them..just to do business there...

[why ya think
all this fuss..
re the cost of..'overseas..fun*DING']

the haircut mate
join the dots

If they default all public servants would be unemployed unless they
agree to keep working without pay until the government could print some Drachmas.
Worse case:
The government could collapse due to no operating government
departments and the UN or the EU could step in and administer the country.

Argentina may give a clue. They were able to reboot their economy.
Greece however may owe considerably more money.
Hopefully those banks and financial institutions that lent on the real
never never will be gone and more business like banks will replace them.
However the population generally will have to make a transition in
their mindset. They will have to adopt the attitude that like it or not
taxes do have to be paid and that retirement at 50 is just not on.

Paul1405/quote..
""Australians should take note.""

too right

""Like always..the capita-list
cause the havoc with their greed and mismanagement.""

every boom
has had its bust
finland survived ok
doing much better than the eu..[phew]

""the boom and bust that capitalism creates.""

yep sheep follow the crowd
pick the leaders..sort out the sheep

""Then as if guiltless..the capitalists
wants to walk away with his fat stash,..whilst demanding the ordinary people,..the man in the street,..pay the price of their folly.""

mate the folly..is
that there is such a thing as a 'free lunch'

everything has its cost
and capitalism..was worth the cost
while the sheeple gave their blood/lives..
to sustain the demon/autrocratic capitalist trust/delusion

""Riots is Greece today""

dont sweat..the protecters
of the capitalists..are getting overtime
join the cops..get paid last,as money pays for protection
from those they too cleverly colluded to enslave

""people will not cop it forever.""

but prefer..to let others do it..FOR them
thus earned..all they soon shall reap

when communism failed
the people got shares

when capitalism fails
all we get is the odious bailout debt

the intrest falls due on who?
me an u..the many..not on the fe

579,

The consequences of a national default would be severe, especially for the Greeks. The yahoos protesting against the austerity measures have no concept of how really bad things would be under a default. The government would be forced to balance its books, and credit would be unavailable. Unemployment would soar, banks would implode, and many businesses would fail. This would take decades before Greece could raise money again.

Banks and lenders to Greece would have to write down their loans to near zero value with serious risk of failures, with consequent risk of defaults from other countries.

bazz said..quote..""If they default
all public servants..would be unemployed unless they
agree to keep working..without pay..until the government could print some Drachmas.""

ok lets refute govt as powerless
money..is only money...cause govt says it is

if govt says..thats not money
then..*that..*isnt legal_tender
WHATEVER GOVT SAYS..IS LEGAL TENDER

as banks close..
govt re-opens them
govt credits..everyone..in the new[old]..tender
!*..IN COIN*..!...instantly...[credit..in the bank]

[drakma/valued..in its historic matalic/value..
as if..a sterling/silver coin]

issue
a euro dividend..[in euro coin]
of say..an equal share...[of the last/bailoout loan]

the one..
lent..ONLY to pay off..other euro bankers/debt loans

issue
an equal share..
of that billions of euro's
in euro/coin..then revalue

the face of coin..
back into silver drakmas
[by adding two zeros..to the face of the coin
but not the quality..[euro]..under the revalued coin

[every invester
bound by the loan
now repays back the euro's lent...[in silver drackmas]

at silver/market face/rate..
[and the debt..is cleared..and people cashed-up]

TOP/down bailouts
will send us all broke
bailout..those..re-signed into perpetual poverty

via treason

restore
back into the drackma
its pre-debased/silver values..
[inflated]..deflated from the fiat euro/bond buyback scam's

""Argentina/may give a clue.""

yep overnight..the elite 1%..[in the know]
pulled/out..every bit of their wealth

and cash-machines ran dry
it wasnt..that the ignorant[decieved]..couldnt pay
but that they couldnt..*access their own bank held cash..!

in the end..they re-opend factories
as co-operatives..run..*for/by the workers
NO MONEY_CHANGERS..ursurous-DEBTS NEEDED..no masters/no bosses

just workers
working/earning/spending..*consuming

""They..we're..able to reboot..their economy.""

no banker needed..to bail them out
AND REPAY OFF..THE ORIGONAL DEBT!
plus ITS lower..underwriten/insured*..intrest_rate

only after..the rich left
just like cuba/iran/etc

""Greece..however may owe considerably more.;.*money.""

lol ..in falling euro's!

not sterling/silver drakmas
look silver..is rising..the euro is falling

think..

which ship..your wanting to/be on

""those banks..and financial institutions
that lent..on the real neve/never will be gone
and more business..like banks..will replace*{OCCUPY}>.them."""

rip..the bandage off..immediatly
like finland/ireland...iran

""the population..generally/adopt the attitude
that like it or not..taxes do have to be paid
and that retirement..at 50 is just not on.""

it was fine
bailing out bankers/collusions

that wasnt sustainable...
bring in transaction/taxes
bring in pension parity...[one advantage..of a higher drakma]

shadows/quote..""The consequences..of a national/default..severe,..especially...for the Greeks.""

rubbish
sovereign/govt underwrites..sovereign/debt
with..a drakma bond..[issues/underwrites...immmediat continuance ofincome legislation]

keeps..the incomes..[declared]..earned
comming-in..[individually]

and let the market set the price]..of the euro/drakma exchange/rate

the people vote wether germanic/french bankers..financing the selling of german/product/industry/morality/beurocracy...has given good_value

experiment..with greece
we all..think to know..default will not work

but heck..LETS TEST IT!..ON A SMALL SCALE
let government..govern..over the value
of its own lergal tender..!

'"The yahoos..protesting against the austerity/measures
have no concept..of how really bad things..would be under a default."""

LOL

and the guilty..
that..think to proffit..from the current scam
generate great fears..

the sky is falling..earth melting..
bird/swine flue...govt picking winners..from the whiners

serving special/intrest..not the people
their lands..and histry...

[heck issue local drackmas]
via schools..we might as well
set up the wikiseed/wikigeld governance system..as well

""The government..would be..forced
to balance..its books,""

govt dont have books..as such
the treasury do...

govt pays..by bond
the fed/etc monetise it...it creates..the bankers*..book asset[sovereign_debt obligation]

govt pays..*up_front
by bond

LOL..""and credit..would be unavailable.""

cccc rap..govt issues..a payoff..to its people

a euro/dividend...
converted into drakma parity

then as market..choses to set..it's exchange rate
[after its revaluation]..drakma conversion,.,.[adding two zero's]

govt
simply orders banks..to record it
and it must be don..e[or nationalise..as a social security consuming measure]

""Unemployment..would soar,""

but govt..*ASSURES your ONGOING..income
in euros..!

""banks..would implode""

unless we give them..a new game changer
new credit..new commodity..

a anti-neo/euro
[old]money..to trade in

""many businesses..would fail.""

yet..their income assured
[underwriten by govt]

""This would take decades..before Greece..could raise money again.""

greece..NEED/NEVER
lend..its own money AT INTRST
ever again...

[think who wins..who gains
follow the/money honey

""Banks..and lenders to Greece..would have/to..write down
their loans..to near zero/value..with serious risk of failures"""

no

govt assues the debt..*will be repaid in full
in 5 years...at the new official ursury rate,

frozen..pre..the media
spin and fear campains

""with consequent risk..of defaults
from other countries.""

no one defaults..!

if you owe debt..every euro*..of it
must be repaid

mark my word..the mark is dead..
long/live..the expendable BEUROCRATIC/eratic beurocrazy

euro
=
zero

[lol it..
was never real]

I think you have it a bit ass up Paul.

In this case it was the socialists habit of paying themselves much more than they earned, as long as there was someone else's earned money available to do it.

Now, when they are told they are only going to be paid what they are worth, they don't like it one little bit.

Then to be told that they have to pay back even most of the overpayment, is almost too much.

Even now most of them don't realise the truth of all this.

At least with their help, there is a good chance the world will be able to dance on the grave of the EU. Thank you Greece.

Now how do we get rid of the UN?

I dont think people see alternative agendas here. It was a sure bet the pollies would vote for a bigger debt. 1. They continue to get paid for as long as they are in control [ corruption] 2. they will sell assets to service the loan there-by having the UE own them POLITICALLY! [ another step towards the 'united states of Europe'].

They actually would be better off defaulting and returning to the Drakma 1. They negate the above 2. They can set their own currency value and exchange rate 3.The EU would cringe at this because the value of the Euro would dive [ helping to reset the Drakma ] and a list of benifits too long to quote here. 4. The EU would loose control of Greeces political stability let alone tying their currency to everyone else. Remember, as per usual, you control a countries finances, you have absolute control, socially, politically, ecconomicly - Greece becomes a slave to the EU. We should all ask the burning question ' where is this money comming from?' WHO are the Eu bankers?, Who elected them?.

Good question.

"So what if Greece defaults"

Personally, I don't believe that Greece will be allowed to default, and that the various parties will eventually fumble their way through.

However, since a default is still possible, a glance at the consequences show them to be wide-ranging.

First, Greece would leave the Eurozone, and be forced to re-invent the Drachma. The exchange rate would, of course, be woeful, which would have some medium-term beneficial impact on industries such as tourism. But the immediate fall-out, in which many thousands of contracts would need to be re-negotiated in Drachma, would see the international court system clogged with claims, none of which would do Greek businesses any favours. Then there would be the threat of hyperinflation, with output down, unemployment up, and ever-higher demand for the ever-decreasing stock of goods and services on offer.

What next? The reality of a country forced into default would definitely spook the rest of Europe. Bank-runs would not be out of the question, capital would leave risky spots and head for safer havens (read: Germany), and bond yields in still-dodgy economies such as Portugal would once again go through the roof, triggering a repetition of the Greek situation elsewhere.

Would the EU collapse as a result? Doubtful. Unwinding such a massive bureaucracy doesn't come easy, especially as there is actually no mechanism that allows even one country to leave. The amount of lawyers' fees involved in sorting that out would probably be enough to buy Greece outright. Let alone the time it would take. The EU has never been a particularly fast-moving body...

What about us? Well, our direct trade with the Eurozone is minimal - some estimates put it as low as 4% of our exports by value. The problem, though, is the flow-on effects of a slow-down in European imports from China, which could well cause that economy to slow down, in which case we'd get swept away in the backwash.

But I'm a believer in the perpetual-muddle-through school of economics, and expect us to have put all this behind us by, say, 2018 or so.

You're probably right Pericles, but isn't it a delicious picture of all those EU bureaucrats waiting in line at the soup kitchen. It would be worth quite a lot of personal pain to see it.

The real worry is a couple of my kids, & 10 of thousands of others, who have built homes in the last 8 or so years, who could easily end up with negative equity, & ruined lives & dreams.

So, I suppose we have to be on the side of the Germans, who have been milking this for all the advantage the low euro gives their industry. If the stuff does finally hit the fan, it will probably be more to do with the German maneuvering than the Greek debt, that started it.

a more important question is how many years of Labour before Australia ends up like Greece. The carbon tax will surely get us closer especially as the handouts in order to bribe voters will probably be more than the tax collected. Only economic vandals could continue with such lunacy.

the perpetual-muddle-through school of economics, and expect us to have put all this behind us by, say, 2018 or so.
Pericles,
They'll probably end up doing it the australian way, sell everything to foreigners.

fishy foundations..of the euro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV59gVIh6FE

The government of Greece is collapsing
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greek-mps-warned-of-catastrophe-as-athens-erupts-in-violence-6804817.html
along with the burning of Athens..

we note the rise of commie party socialists.

The Goldman Sachs installed prime minister
is staying close to his chopper.
goldman cooked the book's
http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=17578
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCe80hsx-ig

then insider trading shorted greek debt
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-02-15/wall_street/30029418_1_goldman-sachs-goldman-first-swaps

No Greek is going to put a Euro
in a bank account for fear of it disappearing.

Have you noticed the Greeks
are demanding war reparations from Germany for WW II

There is nothing like bringing a pre-existing debt
into the equation...ya gotta love historians/lawyers
http://digitaljournal.com/article/319064
http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/8/52969

the bottom line....
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-fed%E2%80%99s-european-%E2%80%9Crescue%E2%80%9D-another-back-door-us-bank-goldman-bailout

The 28 MPs underlined
that at an Italian-German financial conference held in Rome in 1942, the Axis powers arbitrarily decided..that occupied Greece,..as it had fought on the side of the Allies,..was obliged to fund the country’s occupation..*through a "loan".

The MPs stressed that the now united German state owes Greece, a Second World War victor, roughly 54bn euros before interest, underlining that Greece was the victim of unparalleled cruelty inflicted by the Nazi forces.

The signatories
stressed that Greece
has been the subject of an obvious injustice
because it is the only country to which Germany..*has not paid reparations...(AMNA, Athens News)

the twittering twitwits
http://mashable.com/2012/02/13/riots-in-greece/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mashable%2FSocialMedia+%28Mashable+%C2%BB+Social+Media+Feed%29

but heck we are off to the next war
http://whatreallyhappened.com/reuters

judge nepolitanio
out of the fox' hen house
http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=17763

a remider of the stanford project
http://www.prisonexp.org/

a bigger picture
http://www.examiner.com/nonpartisan-in-national/1-us-banks-gamble-5-million-per-us-household-532-trillion-total

the latest black flag op
from mossad...media unit..pre iran/syria?
The timing only serves Israel's interests, not Iran's.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/Israeli-prime-minister-accuses-Iran-of-being-behind-car-bombings-in-New-Delhi-Tbilisi/articleshow/11875290.cms

how about that vatican bank thing eh?
http://news.yahoo.com/monsignors-mutiny-revealed-vatican-leaks-140524856.html

Interesting analysis, Pericles.

Here is one that is interesting too, from Felix Zulauf.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Felix-Zulauf-Swiss-rally-risk-assets-Greece-crisis-pd20120213-RER8N?OpenDocument&src=sph

Loth as I am to disagree with a Swiss "Asset Manager" Yabby, he does come across as a little glib in some areas.

"The thing is, Greece doesn’t make a lot of products. It makes feta cheese and olive oil, and it has tourism. If Greece became 50 per cent cheaper than Spain, Italy and Portugal, after a year or so, the economy would recover."

"In a year or so", I would suggest, every country that has business dealings with Greece will still be fighting out in court a settlement of all the promises that were broken at the moment Greece exited the Eurozone. It is one thing to get international bankers with their broad-based risk to take a 60-70% haircut on Greek bonds, but quite another for an Italian furniture company to forgive 50% of its Greek accounts receivables without a fight. Over 11% of Greece's imports are from Italy, by the way, and the Italians aren't so flush themselves at the moment either.

Not to mention, the streets of Athens would still be filled with teargas, rather than hordes of jolly tourists.

It is of course impossible for a Swiss to say anything at all without slagging off the Germans - even after all the Nazis did for them in WWII, hiding all that gold... but I digress.

"Germany is trying to force everyone onto an austerity course, but that’s only reinforcing the downward spiral of the periphery"

If you were a German businessman, you'd be a bit sick watching your thrift being used to support businesses conducted with (what they would call) Indolenz. But there is much sense in Zulauf's observation that generalized austerity cannot be the only option in play.

But we do seem to agree on the timeframe.

"...markets in the United States and Europe are in a long, sideways value compression period, similar to what we saw from the mid 1960s to the early 1980s. This current one started in 2000, and will probably last into the second half of this decade."

Yup. Wake me in 2018.

Seeing this subject is out of my expertise all i have to say is, with the influx of Greek imports hoping for a better life., all i am hoping for is to get back to some good fish and chips, like the Greeks were experts at.

579 "I am hoping for is to get back to some good fish and chips, like the Greeks were experts at." That's what happened the Greeks lost their touch at making decent F&C's overcooked the fish and used the oil a day or two too long.
579 if you want the Worlds best fish and chips, i don't make that claim lightly, get along to Mangonui in New Zealand's Northland. Not a big place, you can find the fish and chip shop on the water, sit out the back on a warm sunny morning overlooking Doubtless Bay. Everything is freshly cooked, nothing re-heated. Sure beats the streets of Athens at the moment.

perry im not much impressed with your 6 year plan
[2 normal election cycles..or 5 if they go the wrong whorse]

lets go a quote..""generalized austerity
cannot be the only option in play.""

a agree
''there is much sense..in Zulauf's observation''

but much depends..on what other options
a sovereign govt is enmtitled to use
when bound and tied..
by eu beurorocrats


you cant be serious...""If you were a German businessman,
you'd be a bit sick watching your thrift..being used to support businesses conducted with..(what they would call)..Indolenz."""

ahh yes a great germaniac word
but lets go the first bit..germ/maniac thrift?
be serious..germania..lends it..[only if not repaid..doth the bussymessman need pay]

till then
all new money..is rolled over [direct from the banker lending it..to the banker accepting it as repayment..for the last loan..

this ever buigger
ever neqw debt..is just going to the same old scammers
new loan..to repay old loan...

[its not as if the lenders hadnt noticed
the debt getting ever bigger..or that the newest loan..was only repaying the old loan[with ursury on top]

stop sending good credit
after bad debit..to repay the old money lent
ontop of tghe iold loan lent and spent...if indeed it ever went to the lazy greek pensioners or not

which im sure it didnt
all that green debt..from all that green fear
solved temporilly..by some germainiac wind or solar subsidy
again gifted not to the poor..[just like the poor never got free solar subsidies here

govt bailing out big business again
now lending to repay the lasdt short term loan

rollover got us into this global deception
knowing they could grow the debt..at ever higher intrest
its like running on a bankers running machine..run[lend]
but only owe ever more..ever bigger debt..till that one day

they say
stop giving with one hand
taking with the next..its not bailing out greece

only greecing..the skids
on a downward spiral
upon upward spiraling debt

ITS ONLY BAILING OUT GERMANIAC
AND FRENCH MONEYLENDERS./.!

its not..'bailing out'
greece!

its stickey/tricky..
fly/paper grease

greecing up a huge lie

Why is stock markets concerned at what is happening in Greece.

579 Stock markets are nothing more than the barometer of capitalist paranoia. Like the Midas of mythology they suffer from the phobia that someone is just around the corner waiting to rob them of their riches, communists, socialists, workers, the little old lady from Pasadena, the list is endless. These poor capitalist schizophrenics with all their wealth still suffer these delusions and hallucinations. If the news reports "Osama Bin Laden's grandma has been found alive and well" then the all ords in Australia drops 100 points, its all very logical.

If I recall correctly, Paul1405...

>>...someone is just around the corner waiting to rob them of their riches, communists, socialists, workers, the little old lady from Pasadena...<<

That little old lady had, in her rickety old garage, a brand new shiny red Super Stock Dodge. Chances are, she was a rampant capitalist, grinding the faces of the poor in order to feed her need for speed...

"The guys come to race her from miles around
But she'll give 'em a length then she'll shut 'em down"

Have a great day.

Okay Pericles, the little old lady is off the list, but the other 20,000 individuals and organisations are still on. You wrote:
"The thing is, Greece doesn’t make a lot of products. It makes feta cheese." This got me a thinking, the Greek economy when into free fall about the time I switched from Greek Feta to Danish, creamier and cheaper, very capitalistic of me to do that for those reasons, but I did. Do you think the German banks got wind of my switch? da da da. If it will help things on Wall Street I'll go back to Greek feta and all will be forgiven.

govt debt explained in ten minutes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8fDLyXXUxM&feature=player_embedded

wonder if they mention..new loans
only repaying..the old loans plus intrest
so bankers giving with one hand...TOO MUCH
only to claw it back with a new loan

nuthin goes into pensions etc

anyhow
Italy and Netherlands slide into recession
http://www.myfinances.co.uk/investments/2012/02/15/italy-and-netherlands-slide-into-recession

Holland and Italy, two of the Eurozone’s largest economies,
have gone into recession, new figures show.

The economies of both countries suffered a second successive quarter of shrinkage, each contracting by 0.7 per cent during the last three months of 2011.

Germany’s economy also contracted in the fourth quarter, down 0.2 per cent from the previous quarter. This was the country’s first shrinkage since 2009.

Together, all 17 nations making up the Eurozone witnessed a 0.3 per cent contraction in the fourth quarter, but have managed to avoid a collective recession with growth of 0.1 per cent in the third quarter.

and greece has plenty of talking
avoiding the doing
http://12160.info/page/2649739:Page:777179

by the by
a haircat..is a default..of 65/75%
yet is the next loan..still only paying off the last loan

you can be sure
to be sure

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/farage-greek-chaos-you-aint-seen-nothing-yet

http://www.globalpolitician.com/27310-eurozone-greece-germany

http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=17794

how others solved their issues
http://www.alternet.org/world/153929/how_swedes_and_norwegians_broke_the_power_of_the_%271_percent%27?page=entire

note the austerity
not getting the austerity treat..[threat/meant]..
http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/1765/270/Austerity_At_Home:_Decrease_Services_To_Americans_Over_Climbing_Debt._Largesse_Overseas:_Increase_Israels_Military_Aid_To_3.1_Billion_On_Top_Of_Climbing_Debt.html

How can we call it real debt when the Central Banks and their aparchicks create most of this money from nothing and call it repayable debt? That wealth diluted by bankster inflation, belongs to all the people of Europe and not the self appointed few.

Ah Arjay, you look at money in the wrong way. See it as simply
a medium of exchange. So really its just about confidence. As
long as the Arjay's of this world get out of bed each morning and
work hard all day, all is sweet. If confidence stops and depression
sets in, Arjay would have no business, no job and be unable to
feed his family. So why create a depression, if there is
no need?

latest update from max keiser
recalling back when germany was allowed default on debt

how germainiacs leaders
just want voters..to see some blood

to put them back into fearfull pasivity

fight or flight mode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f12ok9YqluU&context=C3de6db3ADOEgsToPDskKuT9D9Mh6tyN8_LY0HbYL1

All the Greeks need is for Adolf Hitleropoulos to come to power and their debt will be gone with the stroke of a pen. The only problem with that is AH might want to invade Poland or somewhere else like Melbourne, unite the Greek speaking peoples of the World, give the Greeks a bit more living space.