http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZZdpQQGMKc&feature=related In the wake of the failure of Obama to back a military attack on Iran by Israel,the EU Oligarchs have decided to put unpresidented sanctions on all trade with Iran.

As James Corbett notes,this will hurt the EU more than Iran,since China can take up the slack and buy oil from Iran at cheaper rates.India and Japan also want oil from Iran.Where will the EU get its oil from? World oil prices will be forced up making Western economies even weaker thus empowering China who will again buy up our assets at bargain prices.

The IAEA has on several occasions inspected Iranian facilities and found no evidence of the development of Nuclear Weapons.

Do these Western think tanks really know what they are doing?

About time!

After Dinner Jacket and his Imam/dictators need to understand that for actions there are consequences.

The EU will still get oil, but pay a little more, Iran will still sell its oil, but get less for it. That's the point.

Shadow Minister,the EU cannot afford any more cost increases.The Western Oligarchs (Banking Military Industrial Complex) are crashing our economies to give them more power over us.They gave themselves $ trillions in bailout money and starved the real economy of cash.

Have you not worked it out yet?

I agree with Shadow Minister! true! totally.
This dysfunctional Nation, split between an extreme version of Islam.
And a mad Tyrant leadership.
Haunted by a Citizens army/murder squad is pointing its tooth pick at the world.
Well past time it had its bluff called and if a chance exists its people set free to make their own path.
Conspiracy theorists who ignore the true nature of this country need help.

Belly listen to General Wesley Clarke.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oJUnG3Z6WI 10 days after 911 General Clarke was told by Rumsfeld and his staff that they were going to attack Iraq,Syria Lebanon,Libya,Somalia Sudan and Iran within 5 yrs.General Clarke could only find reason to attack Afghanistan.You can see him here http://patriotsquestion911.com/ underneath Major General Stubblebine.
He also questions the investigation into 911.

Within a month of 911, Bush had the Patriot Act drawn up and as Congress was deliberating, an Anthrax attack on Congress was unleashed and the fear made them pass this abominable act.

A subsequent investigation traced the attack back to the military.They tried to pin the attack on two people in the Military.The first was Stephen Hatfield but they later charged Bruce Ivans.He mysteriously died of and overdose of Codine and Tylenol while preparing his case with his lawyer.No autopsy was done and the case closed.http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2012/01/mass-panic-over-bird-flu-experiments

Belly,you need to talk to good Union leader called Kevin Bracken.He has honesty and integrity that is sadly lacking in the ALP and the Union movement.

It's an interesting balancing act, that's for sure, even if you ignore the wilder conspiracy theories that seem to magically appear every time Arjay sits down at his computer.

>>...this will hurt the EU more than Iran,since China can take up the slack and buy oil from Iran at cheaper rates.India and Japan also want oil from Iran.Where will the EU get its oil from?...<<

If Iran lowers its prices, as Arjay suggests, then the sanctions will have had some small economic impact on Iran, which I guess was the intention. More to the point, though, is that if India and Japan also rush to buy from Iran, it will have the effect of reducing the aggregate demand from other countries. Which would tend to drive prices down, rather than up.

So the jury is still very much out on the impact on the various oil-dependent economies.

>>World oil prices will be forced up...<<

Possibly. Possibly not. But in any event, I suspect, not of a magnitude to suddenly hand China a massive terms-of-trade advantage...

>>...thus empowering China who will again buy up our assets at bargain prices<<

Incidentally, Arjay, how does the "Banking Military Industrial Complex" benefit from higher oil prices?

Or lower ones, come to that?

Pericles 'How does the BMIC benefit from higher oil prices?'Their owners are also major share holders in all the big oil companies etc.Restrict supply and up go prices.

If Iran can sell more to Japan,India and China,it may not have to sell at much lower rates than now.As James Corbett notes,this will help Iran in the longer term.China can just store more oil its old empty wells if the price is right.

The West is just putting itself in more strife.If Japan and India join China,India and Iran,the power plays change dramatically.

Arjay Thats a different team that you were predicting a couple of weeks ago. The credibility of utube is dodgy, haven't you worked that out yet.

579 more red herrings? What team? What predictions? You may as well say believe nothing you see on TV or read in the papers.On Youtube there are falsehoods and truth.General Wesley Clake is real.He controlled NATO as one time.It called generalising 579 and you are very adept at selective logic.

You might need to do a little more research Arjay, if you want to be credible.

>>Pericles 'How does the BMIC benefit from higher oil prices?'Their owners are also major share holders in all the big oil companies etc.Restrict supply and up go prices<<

So, major shareholders in big oil companies are members of the "Banking Military Industrial Complex"?

Interesting. But who are they, exactly? Let's have a look:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/09/worlds-biggest-oil-companies-business-energy-big-oil.html

http://www.petrostrategies.org/Links/Worlds_Largest_Oil_and_Gas_Companies_Sites.htm

According to these numbers, the "Banking Military Industrial Complex" consists mainly of the governments of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Qatar, Venezuela, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, Nigeria, Libya, Algeria, Russia and China...

Who knew?

The largest traditional shareholder-owned oil company is Exxon-Mobil, who are tiddlers in the grand scheme of things. Here's a .pdf of the 2010 annual report.

http://www.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Files/news_pubs_sar_2010.pdf

Have a look through, and let me know where the "Banking Military Industrial Complex" fit in.

See 'Four Horsemen of America's Oil Wars' by Dean Henderson.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24507
The major owners of Exxon Mobil,Chevron Texaco, BP Amoco, Royal Dutch Shell, are; Rothschilds,Rockefeller,Warburg-controlled Duetsche Bank and JP Morgan Chase.

Your links don't work Pericles.Study carefully the above article.

All very well Arjay , but they are conspiracies. Untried fictitious conspiracies. 911, man on moon, ect, ect, You can not run the world on conspiracies. Iran is ready for nuke; talks, If that fails you will probably see war, and justified.

I suspected it would be something along those lines, Arjay.

>>See 'Four Horsemen of America's Oil Wars' by Dean Henderson.<<

So some Banks are shareholders in Oil Companies. Hold the front page.

You clearly haven't a clue how shareholdings operate. You go along to the AGM, and you vote your shares. They do not entitle you to manage the business on a daily basis, or divert funds into your own pockets. Being a "major shareholder" simply means that you have your own clients' funds invested in blue-chip companies, not that you are able to influence world events.

I think that you - and many of your co-conspiracy theorists - have a knee-jerk reaction whenever they see the words Rothschild, or Rockefeller.

And the links work perfectly on my machine, by the way.

579 People have schemed and plotted since the mythical days of Adam and Eve.Shakespear is full of plots and conspiracies.It happens everyday in our Govts with Julia conpiring to replace the speaker to gain an extra seat.

When you have an elite who have had enormous power for over 100 yrs,then they have the resources to overthrow Govts and plan their unltimate dream,ie Have a NWO in which they can rule the planet.Rumsfeld,Bush Blair,Gordon Brown,Obama etc all talk about this NWO.

Lord Monckton came to fame when he revealed that a % of carbon taxes were to be given to the UN for Global Governance.The lie of AGW was revealed.Bob Brown believes in Global Governance.The Greens have fallen in line with the fascists since they believe that totalitarianism is the only way to save the planet.Were we asked? Their real agenda is to vastly reduce the world's population.They have the capacity to do it especially with germ warfare.See my other ref on the H1N1 bird flu virus.

The USA/NATO are now invading all the countries with oil and resources and trying to contain China/Russia.

Obama has seen reason and not backed an attack on Iran but Israel and the banking elites are not happy with this.They are trying to goad Iran into an attack.NATO has sent more warships to the Gulf.This aggression tells us they don't give a rats about Western Economies.War will mean poverty for us and perhaps even a nuke attack.

The sanctions imposed on Iraq that this country was complicit in were inhuman, brutal, and something any country that regards itself as civilized should be mightily ashamed of.

We were part of stopping medicines, cultures for vaccines, cancer drugs, food, spare parts for sanitation and water purification plants. The list goes on, and for what? To teach Saddam a lesson for not producing non-existing WMDs.

We caused the deaths of over a quarter of a million Iraqi children and the then US Secretary of State said it was worth it.

As a citizen of this country I regard it as one of the darkest chapters of Australia's foreign activities in my life time.

Now we want to do the same to Iran? Not in my name!

Target the elite and the military with sanctions but hands off the people.

Gillard's replacement of the speaker was not a conspiracy. It was a wide-open, clever but perhaps dirty political move. If that was a conspiracy, then so was the underarm bowling incident.

Arjay, we need to talk are you a school teacher? I hope not but suspect it.
You time and again tell me and others we are uninformed.
And you tell me by inferring I know little about the truth, I should read the words of a unionist you prefer.
That man is of lessor use to me than these anti west threads you, and csteele wallow in.
Enjoy.

Otokonoto.How do you define conspiracy? I would say it is a plan to change events by way of deception the dictionary includes the word unlawful.So you are right that Gillard did nothing unlawful.

Obama has changed the Laws ie Preventative Dentention,legalised assassination of suspected terrorists,and initiated the The Defence Authoristation Act.Perhaps we should remove the word unlawful and include unethical or immoral.

Belly there are a lot more people than csteel and I who now see the truth.The really big lunatics are on our side.The USA/NATO want to control the planet just like Hitler wanted to.They have followed his formula very closely.Have a look at Naomi Wolfe's 'Ten Easy steps to Fascism'.

Russia has had these power hungry psychopathic leaders in the past.China has tended to stay within its borders but US aggression may have changed that.The Brits,French,Germans,Spanish,Portugese have all wanted to conquer someone.They have delusions of a new Roman Empire.Not much has changed.

If we want to save the planet,spend money on education,not weapons of war.When women are educated on how to control their fertility and get job skills,they become middle class with few children.

The current lunatics are driving the whole planet into poverty based on the lies of AGW,not enough food,not enough energy/resources and not enough money.They are restricting all of these to expand their own power bases.

That's far more likely, Arjay.

>>Russia has had these power hungry psychopathic leaders in the past.China has tended to stay within its borders but US aggression may have changed that.The Brits,French,Germans,Spanish,Portugese have all wanted to conquer someone.They have delusions of a new Roman Empire.Not much has changed.<<

At least, it far more likely than the world being controlled by a global elite of international banksters, financed by increased oil prices. Which was your view only a couple of days ago.

>>When you have an elite who have had enormous power for over 100 yrs,then they have the resources to overthrow Govts and plan their unltimate dream,ie Have a NWO in which they can rule the planet.Rumsfeld,Bush Blair,Gordon Brown,Obama etc all talk about this NWO.<<

After all, if it is oil price increases we are talking about...

>>'How does the BMIC benefit from higher oil prices?'Their owners are also major share holders in all the big oil companies etc.Restrict supply and up go prices... The major owners of Exxon Mobil,Chevron Texaco, BP Amoco, Royal Dutch Shell, are; Rothschilds,Rockefeller,Warburg-controlled Duetsche Bank and JP Morgan Chase.<<

The unfortunate fly in this particularly fine-smelling ointment is that those companies you mention are predominantly buyers of oil, and are therefore adversely affected by the increase. The major beneficiaries of oil price increase are government-controlled businesses - NOCs, in the jargon of the trade.

So - what was it that you were saying about the Iran oil embargo? Somewhat more damaging - to Italy, at least - would be the refusal of Iran to pay its overseas debts.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/28/iran-oil-sanctions-idUSL5E8CS0L120120128

What is the Rockefeller/Rothschild plot behind that move, do you think? Bankrupt Italy, then take it over? And enjoy fegato alla veneziana and Barolo for life? Can't fault that plan, eh.

Arjay Obama legalized assassination for a specific job. The world is full of conspiracy's, none of which come to anything. It tends to over react some peoples head, they end up about six moves in front of the conspiracy, then again some claim to be able to look into the future. Conspiracy's are a close relation to imagination, kids are good at that.

579,who is to determines the definition of a terrorist? Occupy protestors can be catagorised as such.They were terrorising Wall St.There is no legal repesentation and no day in court to be judged by a group of your peers.

The people of Germany were asleep in the 1930's when Hitler rose to power and so are we.History repeats.

So much nonsense, and in such a short post Arjay.

>>...who is to determines the definition of a terrorist? Occupy protestors can be catagorised as such<<

But they are not, are they.

>>They were terrorising Wall St.<<

Hardly. They were a bit of a public nuisance for a while, but they have now been absorbed into the fabric of the area.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/01/occupy_wall_str_44.php

>>There is no legal repesentation and no day in court to be judged by a group of your peers.<<

That's true for terrorists,of course, but we've agreed that protesters are not terrorists, yes?

>>The people of Germany were asleep in the 1930's when Hitler rose to power...<<

I'm not sure what leads you to the conclusion that the people were asleep. There was a massive groundswell of support for the National Socialist movement throughout Germany, as it tackled the task of rebuilding the country, using patriotism and selflessness as its drivers. Hitler was revered by the - wide-awake - majority.

>>...and so are we.History repeats.<<

So, Arjay, do tell. Who is our 2012 Hitlerian equivalent, leading the people through a carrot-and-stick combination of rhetoric and physical threat?

And what does this have to do with Iran sanctions?

Yes and there was a massive ground swell of support when Obmana rose to power on a Socilaist ticket.He promised change under the banner of "Yes we can" and brought in fascist signing statements of Priventative Dentention,Legalised Assassination ofsuspected terrorists and his latest criminal edict the National Defence Authorisation Act.

Obama also expanded the wars into Pakistan,Libya and even tried to attack Syria until the Russians moved in.Obama promised to end the wars.

I couldn't help noticing that there is an election under way in the United States, Arjay, which is being contested by the same parties as usual, and with a noticeable lack of uniformed thugs on the streets, targetting political dissenters.

How does that fit with your "Obama is the new Hitler" theory?

My money is on Obama to see through the next term. Hitler or not he has a level head. And that is not a conspiracy, it,s calculated judgment.

Dear Pericles,

“with a noticeable lack of uniformed thugs on the streets, targetting political dissenters.”

Sorry my friend but I'm unable to let that one go.

What on earth do you think 400 arrests in Oakland was about?
http://news.yahoo.com/oakland-cleans-400-arrested-protests-024749055.html

And what isn't thuggish about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7lDSeMALdw

Just for tearing down a police eviction poster.

I agree it ain't Syria but neither should it be dismissed.

Fair point csteele.

>>What on earth do you think 400 arrests in Oakland was about?...I agree it ain't Syria but neither should it be dismissed.<<

But it's hardly Kristallnacht either, is it.

Dear Pericles,

Granted.

But then Reductio ad Hitlerum before this thread's sun was over the yard arm was a little rich.

Not blaming you of course,

Yet many leaders of countries by their nature are fascinating and I find Ali Khamenei to be one of those. His power in Iran is almost total yet by all accounts he is a rather humble and simple living person.

It begs the question as to whether countries are better served by the election of powerful business men such as Berlusconi, or Shinawatra, or even potentially Romney who are served up in countries with tainted, hyper-democracies or instead the likes of Khamenei whose austere lifestyle is part of his currency and whose longevity in power, particularly without having to face elections has given a formidable skill set.

For a man who was repeatedly imprisoned and tortured by the Shah, (who was installed by the US after their overthrow of the democratically elected President), one can understand the reticence he has in dealing with the West, particularly America.

But he appears to be far more measured than most, especially compared to the rhetoric coming out of the Republican primaries.

I have yet to see an uncalculated move from him over the nuclear issue and I don't expect one any time soon. The stakes are high enough though to have us all rightly nervous but it is fascinating to watch him at work.

Wouldn't want to live under his rule for a second though.

Good insight, csteele.

>>But [Ali Khamenei] appears to be far more measured than most, especially compared to the rhetoric coming out of the Republican primaries<<

My concern is that the current escalation of US efforts to demonize Ahmadinejad, will actively encourage a form of defensive rapprochement between him and Ali Khamenei. That would in effect unite the Iranian people even further against the Great Satan.

My observation is that - possibly because of the upcoming election - there is more gut-level hysteria coming out of the US than measured international political assessment. This only serves to diminish their power at the negotiating table, which, to be frank, was not particularly great to begin with. There are just so many times that you can use "do as we say, or we'll send in the troops" as the baseline of your negotiating stack.

But, back in Iran, there is an interesting battle under way between the essentially modern - and secular - jingoism of Ahmadinejad, and the deeply traditional clerical figurehead. It's been "on" for a while, and is in itself fascinating to observe.

From a safe distance, of course.

Dear Pericles,

You wrote;

“But, back in Iran, there is an interesting battle under way between the essentially modern - and secular - jingoism of Ahmadinejad, and the deeply traditional clerical figurehead. It's been "on" for a while, and is in itself fascinating to observe.”

And I agree at first reading that would appear to be the dynamic but I sense a more nuanced relationship. For instance Ahmadinejad's quite disturbing rantings foretelling of a Shiite Messiah certainly dents any secular credentials.

If Khamenei did have a deficit in the eyes of many Iranians it would actually be his religious credentials. More a child of the revolution than from a deeply clerical background he is not looked towards for spiritual guidance any where like his predecessor was. In fact there was a fair degree of dissent, including from other Ayatollahs, around him being appointed a marja. Further he refused refused the offer of marja'iyat for Iran instead taking the lesser role for Shias outside of Iran.

Don't get me wrong, in our eyes he presents as deeply conservative and religious but in reality he is a far more toned down version than Khomeini.

When Ahmadinejad called for wiping Zionism off the map Khamenei responded with a measured “"the Islamic Republic has never threatened and will never threaten any country."

It is easy to see Ahmadinejad as a George Bush Jnr, confrontationalist and born-again, while Khamenei is probably closer to the Queen, head of the religious order and holding the ultimate power of dismissal.

He has total control over foreign policy but finds it useful to engage Ahmadinejad to prod the West many of whom can't look past Ahmadinejad to really see who pulls the strings.

So far he is holding his nerve.

A pretty neat analysis csteele, particularly the Ahmadinejad/Bush scenario.

However, I think you might be overstating the significance of Ahmadinejad's messianic raves.

>>For instance Ahmadinejad's quite disturbing rantings foretelling of a Shiite Messiah certainly dents any secular credentials.<<

In my view his purpose is entirely political, as opposed to religious. Give that the vast majority of Iranians are Ithnashari Shiite, who hold the return of the Hidden Imam as the central tenet of their version of the faith, in my view he is doing no more than tapping into that wellspring of hope/fear.

I could be wrong, but that's the way I read it. In a recent essay on the topic in the New York Review of Books, Malise Ruthven observed "For Ahmadinejad, populist expectations surrounding [the Hidden Imam's] imminent return (an attitude described as 'deviant' by conservative clerics) serves to boost his presidential ambitions."

Watch this space.

Dear Pericles,

You wrote;

“However, I think you might be overstating the significance of Ahmadinejad's messianic raves.”

You could well be right, indeed I remember quite vocal questions about the truthfulness of Bush's apparent conversion to the born-again brand of the Christian faith, and I'm not sure I would want to put my house on its validity.

But while both men certainly have an eye trained on their backers and the general voters I'm not prepared to dismiss either of them buying into the Messianic trip.

I'm also sure that Bush's closeness to the 'Raturists' would have been deemed troubling if not 'deviant' by 'conservative clerics', who in the American setting would include the mainstream, traditional churches.

While they certainly believe in a 'rapture' style event it is always of the Post-Tribulation variety and so dismiss the pre and mid tribulation raptures as unscriptural. Not so Bush's most strident supporter base.

Ultimately we need to decide who is the more dangerous beast, the man with deeply held religious beliefs or the one who would do anything, say anything, or become anything to gain power. I tend to think the latter though open to your assessment.

What tickles this old secularist is the knowledge that Ahmadinejad's messiah will be arm and arm with Christ when they return together, this is according to Ahmadinejad own beliefs.

Within the current Iranian leadership and particularly compared to Ahmadinejad's religious and confrontational rhetoric I'm happy viewing Khamenei as the 'pragmatic moderate'. Probably his most important relationship though is the one he holds with the Islamic Revolutionary Guards. He was appointed supervisor in the eighties and they have protected him against both the clerics and the reformers. While that relationship holds and remains mutually beneficial he will prevail.

I should add I am a far more comfortable with a nuclear capable Iran under his leadership than I was with either Pakistan or North Korea. But when he goes things may well get a lot more troubling.

Oh hell, here we go again.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE8101UK20120201?irpc=932

It didn't take long for the sanctions to impact food imports.

Bend over and take it Kahmenei or watch your people starve.

Are we going to stand back and watch this ratchet up until another US Secretary of State gets to say the deaths of half a million Iranian children was 'worth it'?

Damn this can be a pretty depressing world some times.