I agree with your point Paul1405 that attitude change to addiction must occur before progress can be made. On the social side the down side of addiction is strengthened even supported by prohibitions.

On the health side, the failure of the society to quality control the recreational drug supply is an abrogation of responsibility in itself.

Many an empire has been built (including the Sicilian Mafia) on the fear alone of failing to understand the why's and wherefores of why people choose to use recreational drugs.

Allowing some additive drugs and not others lacks rationale, and reeks of hypocrisy.

At the end of any bar in Australia you will find the most vehement of anti-drug campaigners, inebriating themselves with a drug that changes personality as you consume it, and destroys brain cells rendering them even more vehement in their beliefs and convictions as time passes.

The inebriant's are a special category in the book of toxicity (the British Pharmacopeia), in that they change the personality of the user "real time" as they use it. The person is effectively out of control. Hence road deaths and violence in the home and on the street.

Alcohol and barbiturates are 2 of a very few inebriating substances found in the book. This group of substances cause great angst among us because of our experience of the effects of inebriation (being out of control) upon our own lives.

Ironically tobacco is about 10 times as additive as heroin, (also more toxic, it's in the book), and I agree there is no apparent reason for using it whatsoever, other than the addiction.

A person using heroin is usually slumped in a corner somewhere having a self contained experience. That hardly has any effect upon others until the need to get money to service the addiction eventuates, largely perpetuated by the prohibition, attracting criminals whom would otherwise be robbing banks, but have exchange this for the easy life of supplying prohibitive addictive substances.

It's all very expensive and pointless to boot, where a little understanding the problem better and a lot less fear, might help.

thinker 2. The social problems that alcohol cause are well known to all of us, but still alcohol is socially acceptable. What causes a person to become an alcoholic? That's the $64 question. I don't think anyone sets out to become addicted to anything, often the addicted wont admit they have a problem. In many cases drugs act as a release, mask personal problems for a short time. gives enjoyment that otherwise one would not have. The drug then becomes the overriding consideration no longer delivering the 'buzz' as required putting a person on a down-would spiral. Not to mention the physical effects of over use.
Alcohol addiction is always going to be a huge problem in our society so long as it is so socially acceptable. It's interesting to note how the acceptability of smoking tobacco has changed in our society in the last 40 years, no longer acceptable as it once was. this is mainly due to the knowledge non smokers have gained about the affects of passive smoking and their reaction.

paul/quote..""often..the addicted..wont admit..*they have a problem.""

often..they will deney..*they are addicted

but all addiction..is love
those getting in-between..the addict..
and that they chose to 'love'
best beware...

[before attacking..loners..people should declare
openly...in a place of addiction...their own love
[addictions]to/of laws..for others addicts/addictions,.,

[but never thyne own loves..[addicktions..]

""In many cases..drugs act as a release,""

but drugs cure things..lol[simptons

[one glass a day...makes me heart healthy
[cause..i love it soo...but i love it soo much..

i take too much
but only cause i know..the love it
as it makes me feel now,..will soon..go away

so i get..my next hit..in the next day

lets be honest...the re-lease..isnt with/in..
so we try to find it..in others..[with/out]

release..""mask personal problems..for a short time.""

just as any drug..'relieves..symptoms'
not initiate a cure...

[caffeene,causes heart*palpitations..cannabis expands the arteries

""gives enjoyment
that otherwise..one would not have.
The drug then becomes..the overriding consideration""

for those..who only got drugs
or licence to deal drugs legally[lawfully]

a licence is permission
to do that otherwise unlawful[for you to do]
licening is about powwer..

as much as banning
others things..is about power

power/dissempower...""no longer delivering the 'buzz'
as required..putting a person on a down-would spiral.""

till they pass their next law
subsidise their next drug
vilify the other drug user

'"Not to mention the physical effects..of over use.""

too much of anything can kill
drink 7 litres of water..[and die]
eat enough suger salt...flour..you die

we are chemical factories
but the big key...to most things..of life
is ozmosis..[where there is too much..to goes
to where there isnt enough]..be it good or bad stuff

smoking..""longer acceptable..
this is mainly due to the knowledge...[lie]..non smokers have gained about the affects of passive smoking and their reaction.""

mate
the rate..of smokers and non smokers cancer ratyes are proportuinatly ..the same

ie passsive smoking ...isnt the cause
nor is impassive smoking...

[its micro particulate...
from diesal/woodsmoke]..asbestros..
and bad gene repair mechanisms...

[3 in 4 people
can't..*get ANY cancer]
thats a simple fact..[as is]

thats not as..
the..control other's..addition addicts...like to realise...

help them
control THEIR own
addictions to power

I disagree Paul with your synopsis, because you infer that people whom choose to indulge in substance use are doing so because they are fundamentally flawed or have a problem to begin with in the first place.

This is not the reason why people indulge out of choice at all. People do so often for just entertainment or amusement purposes.Even for intellectual stimulus. Something you will not find between the four walls of church on Sunday..

You also ignore the 2 points I made regarding crime and health. Your view that abstinence solves all problems is fundamentally flawed in itself because that is never going to happen, except in some hellish wowzer world that you would have everyone accept at your behest.

Religious faith is a type of drug, as is poker machine addiction as the proponents of these witch crafts, stimulate their devotees with wild promises of every lasting life or jackpots with bells lights and buzzers.

It is the irrational fear of the corrupting the human mind that drives your view and nothing more. It is paranoia driven by ignorance and the desire to have everyone live as you do.

Paul1405 it's people like you who cause the problem in the first place, and influence Govt's to deliver such thoughtless policy as prohibitions.

thinker 2 You misinterpret what I say.
you say "except in some hellish wowzer world that you (paul1405) would have everyone accept at your behest." "The other side benefit of legalising supervised use of substances is obvious; the elimination of substance related crime over night, and the related health issues and mortality rates, and cost of enforcement associated with the prohibition philosophy." I said "there is no evidence that prohibition is the answer, in fact the evidence shows just the opposite. Strong punitive action, particularly against the addicted, does not solve the problem" then you went on to say "Paul1405 it's people like you who cause the problem in the first place, and influence Govt's to deliver such thoughtless policy as prohibitions." Are you telling me that I was the cause of my Fathers addiction to alcohol? Interesting. Prohibition read what I said.
You said "marketing chemicals driven by profits often without adequate testing, that are possibly more harmful, theoretical, and without question more toxic, than anything beneficial that may derived from cannabis." I agree cannabis can be beneficial to the terminally ill and those suffering great pain. I have a drink so I'm not a wowzer as you put it.

Apologies Paul, I appears I have misinterpreted your previous post.

It is however staggering to me that people out of control through the effects of alcohol is socially acceptable.Judges even accept this as an anticedence in criminal cases using this excuse to mitigate sentences.

Toxicity goes hand in hand with tolerance. The more toxic the drug is the more tolerant of it the body becomes of it with use. In the case of cannabis Paul that is not the case. There is in fact little or no acquired tolerance whatsoever because there is little or no toxicity. A point always concealed in studies done by researchers pushing barrows for public money.

As the original scientific fraudster Anslinger did back in the 1920,s about cannabis, firstly you generate hysteria by media, then you collect public funding for the purpose of solving a malady that never actually existed in the first place.

It is amazing to me that we allow additives to food that we feed our children that are made in a laboratory and are at the top of end of the toxicity scale and conspire with business to prevent people from discovering this by appropriate labeling, whilst at the same time allowing the police media etc to generate hysteria relating to illicit recreational drug use on TV.

Have noticed how many people are being born these days with ADHD or Asperger Syndrome or other forms of abnormal birth, I believe directly associated with the additives in food.

Perhaps we could spend some of the money we spend on oppression on research into the effects of food additives upon the unborn human organism instead, getting our minds right and our resources appropriately utilised.