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The Forum > General Discussion > This will be the last year for many

This will be the last year for many

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With excessive running costs and unworkable IR laws, I am afraid this year will be the last for many small businesses.

I was amazed to see most of the up market new restaurants closed at south bank yesterday. It's as a result of unworkable trading laws and wage constraints.

This industry has been hit hard with IR, 5 out of the last 9 days were public holidays.

I remember a bold statement, NO WORKER WILL BE WORSE OFF.

Well, I guess not having a shift, or job, is not considered to be worse off hey!

Most workers would have been happy with time and a half (Xmas day excluded), most customers would be happy to pay a surcharge, but hey, what would we know, we just run the joints.

It's amazing how much damage a bad government can cause in just four years.
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 2 January 2012 6:27:07 AM
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You get a bit down on us workers mate, ALP workers, wages.
Well Butch it will be the first too!
For bright young folk starting out to become millionaires.
For older ones sea changing and beginning to build a second fortune.
As I now look like being around for a while I feel ready to relaunch and get back to some job too.
Opportunity exist, always.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 4:34:10 AM
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Dream on belly!
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 6:00:32 AM
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tubbers you must forgive our mr bell
he still thinks alp=union/worker friendly
you at least know all govt..is there to serve industry
[giving their wealth..to the finance industry..and the govt grants machine]

noting fed and state govt are redoing
the sydney cricket grounds roof..for free
the black suits serving the whites sport elites
[via the money marketeeers]

this will be the last year
for many middle class and super anuants
[worker forced to give 13%..of their after tax wages
to the moneyed elite..and the rest to govt and the landlord]
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 8:19:07 AM
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Dear rehctub,

Not sure if I agree with your take on things.
There are many small businesses in our area
that are doing just fine - from hairdressers,
beauty salons, chemists, bicycle shops, butchers
fish shops, and so on. Many are extending their
branches, others are diversifying, but none are
packing it in. I guess it depends on the individual
circumstances in each case.
Posted by Lexi, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 9:52:00 AM
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Butch is a professional whynger, Workers are entitled to be safe at work, and earn a livable wage. There will always be businesses that doesn't work out. You can't make laws that suite everyone, some don't want laws at all. More and more are going on line, which will reorganize the way people do business. Some commodities are just not needed any more, and some are not suited for business.
Posted by 579, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 10:30:47 AM
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For god's sake 579, workers, employers, mums, dads, kids & terrorists are entitled to nothing. Sweet Fanny Adams is what everyone is "entitled" to. I might make an exception, & say they are entitled to oxygen, but after that it is all at cost

This is why so many lefties hate Howard. He, the miserable bastard, started talking about responsibilities, rather than entitlements, & that really worries them.

No one is "entitled to anything they don't at least try to earn for themselves.

You'd really be in trouble in the islands. In PNG for example, not only is there no welfare, everyone has to pay a head tax. Every man woman & kid in any bush village owes their head tax. I have no idea of the punishment if they don't pay. I've never heard of it happening, so it must be pretty dire.

If villagers want their kids educated, they have to first build a teachers house, & a school house. Then, & only then can they expect to be allocated a teacher.

I can only employ anyone if their labour, along with my capital & expertise can earn more per hour than I pay them. Much more in fact, as the present on costs are running at about 60% on top of wages paid.

You seemingly think it is OK for businesses to fail, as long as the workers get a living. Doesn't sound too equitable to me.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 12:36:35 PM
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Thank you, Hasbeen, for showing this "entitlement" thing its right place.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 1:27:48 PM
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We are all in for a big shake up in coming years.
With decreasing tax revenues and falling GDP governments will be
cutting back on those "entitlements".
Generally, governments/states/councils will be providing less & less.
Just look at what is happening in the USA. They are further down that
track than Europe or us.
Just on the BBC a couple of nights ago was an item about infrastructure
in the US. The interstate highways are falling apart and even bridges
are falling down and many are unsafe.
Truck drivers are complaining that the state of the highways is
damaging their trucks.
A friend recently came back from the US and complained of the
roughness of the highways, so it is not just politics.
Some towns and districts are disbanding their police forces.
California has been tottering on the verge of bankruptcy for a couple
of years.

Now is definitely not the time to be asking for more.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 1:45:24 PM
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Rechtub, have you considered, even once?
You may be wrong?
Even if Europe enters a bad depression.
Even if we are dragged in to it, even if our unemployment grows to ten percent.
Your picture of doom and gloom will never happen.
Is not happening now.
And want a laugh?
If Tony Abbott took over as PM tonight, and changed not a thing.
You would be prancing about.
Singing his praises!
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 4:27:37 PM
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Belly, it is not going to matter much who wins the next election.
Neither of them have a clue at what is going on.
I don't think the one politician who seems to understand the financial
system, Barnaby Joyce, is really aware of what lies behind it all.

They won't act until it hits them between the eyes.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 6:01:05 PM
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There's that livable wage thing again 579. Just what is a livable wage?

You just don't get it, do you! Wages, like all expenses, MUST come from profits.

My wife and I spent the day (Sunday) at south bank. Three out of four flash restaurants closed. Why! Double time and a half wages, that's why.

Retail is only time and a half on Sunday, double time, or a day in lue for Monday, public holiday. That's crazy, why do they get a break and restaurants don't.

Belly, you can hold your head in the sand as long as you like, you can even share Mr Swans denial if you wish.

We are plummeting, jobs will go, confidence will be slashed yet again.

Advisors are saying, don't buy, don't invest.

As for 579 and his joy for Internet shopping, that to will come at a huge cost.

Governments are only ever reactive, not pro active, and that's the problem.

It's not really their fault, after all, we choose our leaders from the ones that the corporate world turned down, and that's a worry.

I now cut timber for a living and can make more than any Polly in less than 40 hrs per week.

579, all workers should be great full for their bosses willingness to take risks, not have your attitude of, it's my given right.

Believe me, we, the risk takers are having second thoughts, and that's something you shoukd all be very, very, worried about, because without us, you will have nothing.

Be warned.
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 7:44:10 PM
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I agree with butch here. Things are tough for small business. I see many small shops change hands quickly. They open for a while and close up and are gone and if you look at their rents and overheads you will soon see why.

I have always said "If the boss can't make a quid, there is not much hope for the bloke he employs"

I wonder how many of us actually try to buy goods made in Aus. See tonight Heinz tomato sauce closing here and going to NZ and making sauce from chinese tomatoes. Just another 150 out of work. Who cares. Been happening for years now. We have little manufacturing business left in Aus. Poor fella, my country!
Posted by Banjo, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 8:42:10 PM
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Yes Banjo, my wife & I actually discussed this tonight, & agreed to take all Heinz products off our shopping list.

They join a growing list, including anything with a Coles, or Woolworth's label. Far too much of their stuff is imported, so rather than try to remember what, I buy nothing with their brands.

Yes it costs more at the local supermarket, but I'm not broke yet, & I like to support locally owned businesses.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 10:07:00 PM
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ah seems I have got it wrong, the sky is indeed falling.
And its going to be dreadful.
We are in for real trouble,apart from maybe Germany our economy is growing faster than the rest of the world, well Chinas doing ok.
And as people buy on the net, beggars are saving cash, our city's streets are dead.
But wait! I can help, I have the plans for small boats, costs not a lot you can have them cheap.
Lets all leave this sinking ship.
Become boat refugees before the rest of the roof falls.
Is that just low clouds? oh my gawd is it?
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 4:50:23 AM
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I am going to confess something here, as I am pretty much semi retired now.

I purchased my first shop in 89, paid $87K, turned over $8,000 per week and netted $2,000 per week. Huge wage in 89.

I have owned 5 shops in total over my 22 years.

Best one was in 94 to 97, turned over $30K per week, gross profit of 28%,netted a staggering $6,000 most weeks, more than the PM.

My last one, turned over $20K per week, gross profit of 50%, $10,000 per week, netted about $1600 per week.

The rest went in rent, wages and fees.

Everyone expects small business to fight for survival, but when it comes to jobs, they expect even the weakest workers to have job security.

Sorry, can't happen any more, especially when you continually seek out the best price, even if it is off the net, a practice you know full well costs local jobs.

This is why small business ha lost it's shine.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 10:46:36 AM
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Butch,
Your sums may be lost on many here, but I am curious.

Your last shop, you netted $1600/week, out of that you paid tax right?
How many hours/week did you put in for that. How many staff?

How much capital did you have tied up in the shop and what return on capital? Also what return on your capital if you had stuck it in the bank?
Posted by Banjo, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 11:12:00 AM
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*seek out the best price, even if it is off the net, a practice you know full well costs local jobs.*

Ah Rehctub, but the net also creates all sorts of new jobs. How
many people do you think now work in IT, designing and maintaining
websites for instance? Ask the couriers how much extra work they
have now. Australia Post is battling to cope with all the parcels.

Then think of all the new businesses now created online. Its huge.
Plenty of people make a good living just trading on ebay.

Then think of all the extra business created by people not being
ripped off so much anymore. If I can buy the same item for 50$,
which used to cost 100$, I still have 50$ left to spend on something
else. My standard of living goes up, the economy benefits.

Where I do agree with you is something you mentioned, ie this double
time and a half etc. Its ridiculous and will certainly cost
jobs. I've seen it already in many small businesses that might have
traded on Sundays of public holidays. Now they simply employ a family
member or close altogether. Workers lose, no matter what the good
intentions were of those who try and enforce these laws.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 11:28:39 AM
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Banyo, capital value as about $250,000, staff of 4, my hours about 60 per week.

The real problem now is running costs.

Ten years ago, one weeks turnover would pay a years rent, 20 years ago it was more like two years rent, today, it can be more like 15 to 20weeks turnover just to pay a years rent and runnig costs, wages excluded.

You see returns are now less than 10% in most cases. Now that's fine if you turn over billions like the big guys, but 8% of one million is chicken feed these das, and that's the real problem.

It is not uncommon for a restaurant to net less than 2% of turnover, and that's a joke, especially considering ones house is often on the line.

IR laws have crushed this industry.

How can no worker be no worse off if the no longer have a shift, or a job at all.

I say again, min wages are to high. My mate with a rest pays $41 per hour for dish washers just because its a Sunday.

Since the new laws, he has shut one, sold another, sacked 20+ staff and no longer pays pay roll tax.

And our former IR minister, now PM says how clever am I.

Governments should provide welfare, not employers.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 12:09:57 PM
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*Ten years ago, one weeks turnover would pay a years rent, 20 years ago it was more like two years rent, today, it can be more like 15 to 20weeks turnover just to pay a years rent and runnig costs, wages excluded.*

Well there is the rub, Rehctub. Alot of commercial rents today
are clearly ridiculous. Westfield did not become megarich for no
reason.

I read the other day that some Sydney commercial rents are amongst
the highest in the world. Consumers are slugged with all this.

Consumers now have other options, I'm not going to cry tears for
landlords.They will just have to meet the new reality or their shops
will stand empty.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 2:22:05 PM
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Yabby I agree.

I think there may be a change in the laws as well.

You at present, say a shop sits empty, then along comes a tenant, signs a lease and pays rent.

Four years into the lease and two new shopping outlets latter, the tenant goes broke.

The landlord then sues them and they may loose their home.

The part that is wrong is that the LL was not receiving rent when the shop was vacant. I think this law may change.

In my case my turnover dropped by 40% in four years but my rent increased by 5% each year.

LL are not interested in any of this as they simply want their rent.

I,m with you, they will learn THE HARD WAY.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 6:53:18 PM
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I'm not sure about the law changing Rehctub, its a commercial
deal so I doubt that the Govt will become involved.

Those shopping centre tenant agreements IMHO are all in favour
of the landlord and its tenant beware. The problem is that
lots of little people have dreams and think that they can somehow
make a go of it, only to learn the hard way.

They get their super payout and risk the lot, including the house
and before you know it, they are on a pension, venture failed.

But maybe the present crisis will wake people up, as a number of
large clothing chains etc have gone bust and more will follow.

Landlords know that empty shops are a bad sign for their centres,
so if enough shops stand empty, they will have to face reality.

Real estate speculation might not be as profitable as it used to
be, but I don't think that that is a bad thing in the big scheme
of things.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 7:11:08 PM
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Yabby & Rehcub,
I read an article recently about a situation that has developed in the US.
It was about shopping malls. The situation is a bit different here as
our shopping malls, centres if you like, are not generally outside of
towns, but usually well within suburbs.
The article was about Houston in Texas.
The shopping malls are deserted and some even abandoned.
They sit there surrounded in acres of empty car park asphalt.
Even in the area alongside major roads, according to the article many
of what they call strip malls are near empty.
I can't remember where I read the article.
It was written by someone who was visiting the city for a conference.
Westfield must be seeing some of this in the US so perhaps they should
use that experience to modify their behavior here.
I think the conclusion was that people are not driving out to the
large malls but shopping local.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 10:01:29 PM
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I tried to find the article but to no avail.
However believe it or not or only in America I found a dead mall site.

http://deadmalls.com/index.html

Cheers & Happy New Year
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 10:13:04 PM
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Commercial rent rates are ridiculous. I don't know how this situation can be improved. Where I live the larger shopping centres are dominated more by bigger chains than by small mum and dad businesses, often giving rent concessions to the big stores while the smaller concerns bear the greater burden.

I recently chatted with an American colleague who is gobsmacked by the cost of commercial space and the greed of some of these predatory landlords. Coming from an American citizen that is something. He does acknowledge a better lot here in Australia for minimum wage earners, of which in his home state make up the a large working poor.

There is no point in asking the poorest to shoulder the bulk of the burden through low wages, while many businesses continue to make exhorbitant profits.

While the factors affecting smaller businesses are unique, there are many small businesses doing well and adapting to changing market demands. It has always been this way, change is inevitable whether we like it or not.

I certainly agree that business role is not to act as charities in other areas of policy and that governments have placed more burdens on small business. Unfair dismissal - there is probably some room for making the process fairer and easier, given that small business cannot carry dead wood for as long. My fear is that to give too much on the employer side however will erode some of the fair conditions we have in this country for employees. WorkChoices proved that you give an inch and an employer will take a mile.

There has to be fair meeting point somewhere that recognises the importance of both employer and employee needs.

Consumers can choose not to shop at these mega plazas and go back to strip shops in local centres to support local small business which employs a large number of people. People power is what is needed to 'incentivise' fairer commercial arrangements.
Posted by pelican, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 10:26:57 PM
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Pelican, it was my understanding that the low skilled were the only ones effected by work choices.

When I was a kid starting out, no skills meant you had to work longer hours to make do. Then, along came family assistance, which also brought with it, dishonesty from workers and bosses alike.

One could then work their 38 hrs for a low wage and claim assistance for the balance.

I think one of governments motives behind increasing the minimum wage is the fact that it takes these workers wages beyond that welfare mark, and that's where the government has got it wrong.

It is their role to support low income earners, not businesses.

Let's face it, $23 per hour for holding a stop go sign is a bit rich. Try and get this wage in the likes of America.

Our system simply can't continue to afford the high wages and we either accept that, or perish.

BTW, this won't effect me, so I am not bias here.
Family assistance, whether you agree with it or not, should be governments problem, not employers.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 5 January 2012 5:51:24 AM
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the empty shops[and factories]..speak for themselves
[as does the loss of pensions]
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/293243/Pensions-in-crisis-as-funds-collapse

tubber's./quote..""I think one of governments motives..behind increasing the minimum wage..is the fact that it takes these workers wages..beyond that welfare mark,""

if workers need govt top-up..[welfare]
after working 4 days..[thats a business subsidy]
http://electronicintifada.net/blog/ali-abunimah/while-america-shuts-down-fire-houses-cuts-infant-nutrition-us-subsidizes-israel

better full dole and no work..than slave work subsidised by govt grant

""and that's where the government..has got it wrong.""

too right
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/jewish-groups-get-most-money-from-federal-security-grants/article_e3b8efb8-f2a9-53af-97bb-de25d66f0a6b.html#ixzz1iMfQXfMP

bailing out capitalists
bring worker over poverty levels

lol
we agree govt larges to big busines bonus..has gone too far
http://dailybail.com/home/how-to-forge-a-clients-signature-and-other-lessons-from-insi.html

""When I was a kid starting out,..no skills
meant you had to work longer hours..to make do.""

you fail to regonise..that cleaners have skilLs TOO
AS MUCH AS A BUTCHER..KNOWING HOW TO CUT MEAT..NOT HIS ARM
or insurance industries..knowing if its not clean..your broke!

""Then,along came family assistance,..which also brought with it, dishonesty...from workers and bosses alike.""'

bosses was the after-thought right"
so all govt asistance is dishonest?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4P2O8UjQeU
or just some of it..the crumbs..that go to the poor
if they beg..[and work for nuthing [less than welfare]
http://dailybail.com/home/60-minutes-on-medicare-fraud-a-60-billion-crime.html

YOUR utopia
http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=17169
""One could then work..their 38 hrs
for a low wage..and claim assistance..for the balance.""

lol two masters..when we only need one!

one [poor]..tax paying worker..[paying
non wage tax..[income tax]..working for the other..
running a busines.. via a tax free trust..to get rich

is corperate welfare
govt should give no money to business
indeed business earn income...[proffit made without value adding]

wages isnt income
you pay tax to get welfare[and work for free]
when the income earned by the boss...goes into the trust tax free

thats nuts

http://www.freep.com/article/20120103/NEWS01/120103049/1001/rss01
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 5 January 2012 8:00:33 AM
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WE AGREE!

""It is their role..to support
low income earners,..not businesses.!""..
http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=621626

""Our system""
http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2012/01/theres-war-on-free-speech-and-free.html

your capitalist..system...""simply can't continue to afford..the high wages..and we either accept that,..or perish.""

you quit
why cant we?
[cause you got extra cash
we just got the dole..you got the full proffit* from your meat shops
we get the dole...and now got free time...just like you

but you now gotta protect ya cash
cause its time to pay the piper

""BTW,..this won't effect me,..so I am not bias here.""
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/293243/Pensions-in-crisis-as-funds-collapse

""Family assistance,""

your all going to be on it soon
http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/1576/724/Keiser_Gold,_Silver_Markets_Shattered...Run_on_Comex:_No_Real_Inventory..._Trading_bullion_100_to_1.html

""whether you agree..with it or not"",
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

""should be governments problem,..not employers.""
http://www.theagitator.com/2011/12/23/the-new-professionalism-17/

yep big money is onto it
http://milwaukeestory.com/index.php/2012/01/02/romneys-top-contributer-goldman-sachs-ron-pauls-us-army-346/

http://www.votefraud.org/how_a_private_company_counts_our_votes.htm
http://www.thelandesreport.com/NewHampshirePrimary.htm

This is from 2008..where Black Box..voting found that Ron Paul had received 30 votes..in this township..but by the time it got to the tabulation center,..the "official" form showed zero!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=170_1200019114&comments=1

put them capitalists..on the dole
seize back..their govt gifts

[*]IDEA[*]

everyone
repay's...*all govt assistance
[bring back..*death-duties]
and tax..*trusts..[double]
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 5 January 2012 8:01:10 AM
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Bazz, I think the US has a similar problem to Aus, in terms of
overservicing by retail. So as consumers change behaviour, some
are going to stand empty somewhere.

According to all that I've heard on Bloomberg, Xmas sales were up
in the US. But it was companies like Amazon which boomed.
Internet commerce is more advanced in the US then here, with a
larger market share. IMHO the same will happen here.

New technology is changing things too. These days alot of people
carry smart phones for instance. There are now smartphone apps
which let the consumer go and browse at a bricks and mortar shop,
scan the barcode of the product with the camera in the phone, then
google the cheapest price in the US for that product and order direct
online. That is going to make retail incredibly competitive!

So just renting retail space and slapping on high margins, is not
going to be enough in the future, the way I see things
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 5 January 2012 9:52:26 AM
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Yabby, you say internet won't have much effect on jobs, well, let's do the sums.

Take an item, a CD will do.
in retail it goes from the manufacturer to the distributor, form there to the retailers warehouse, from there to the retail outlet, from there to the shelf, finall the checkout.

All these steps involve staff.

Internet.
From the manufacturer, to perhaps a distributor, then directly to the customer.

Do you honestly think there there no jobs lost along the way.

OUG, welfare is yet another way people get what they can't afford.

This government has simply shifted the burden of welfare from themselves to business.

This will be as bad a mistake as unfair dismissal was in the early 90's.

On the one hand workers expect the weak worker to be saved, yet they also expect weak businesses to fail.

That's were the imbalance occurs.

Survival of the fittest must work for both, either that, or both must be protected.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 5 January 2012 10:58:17 AM
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*Take an item, a CD will do.*

But Rectub, the Cd is outdated technology and you cannot
stop the world from changing. Today people go online
and buy individual songs if they want. So music has
become dramatically cheaper.

I've just been putting a whole lot of my old cds onto
the ipod. Some still have the old price tag, 30 bucks,
which I bought decades ago.

See it this way. If I'm not spending money on music,
I'm buying something else, which again creates employment.

Where Australia just falls down badly is in skills. The
Australian army cannot find people to run their equipment.
They need to bring them in from overseas or our very own
army and navy cannot function.

Surely it must occur to some people that flipping burgers
or being a checkout chick is not enough anymore, if you
want to make a reasonable living.

Qualified people have no problems finding work. We need
more of them and our youth of today has to understand
the value of skills. We should be making it easier for
them to obtain them. Look at the apprentice drop out
rate. Something is wrong with the system.

This is where we have a problem when the basic wage and
social benefits are too high. People say stuff further
education, I don't need it, to make a reasonable living.
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 5 January 2012 11:27:45 AM
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The same argument has been around since working for a living started. If you automate you downsize jobs. Isn't that why we have growth. So new jobs are created. Businesses are going by the wayside all the time, that is nothing new. Last year with a lack of consumer confidence, no doubt made things harder than normal. Internet shopping will take another toll, but you can-not stop progress. With cheaper goods, power is transferred back to the consumer. Retail margins are far to high, and this drives wages growth. $23 for a stop go sign, maybe that is the going rate or else no one will do it, and where does that get you.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 5 January 2012 11:31:57 AM
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It was an example yabby, but nice try.

579, that's part of the problem in this country, if you don't want to work, you don't really have to.

Yes, retail margins are to high, but only because expenses are to high.

In the 90's I did very well on a 28% margin. Today, 50% is not enough.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 5 January 2012 12:32:02 PM
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579 said;
If you automate you downsize jobs. Isn't that why we have growth.

No it is not, it is merely a symptom.
We have growth because we employ more energy in the process.
Energy, especially high density energy, enables work to be done that
amplifies the physical energy of one man.
One barrel of oil is the same as having 2000 slaves working for you for a year.
This is especially obvious in farming. One man on a tractor can plough
100 times the area that a man with a horse can plough.
This why our population increase from about 1 billion in early 1800s
has grown to 7 billion today and the curve tracks EXACTLY the increase
in the use of fossil fuels, coal, gas and oil.

We are facing a time of transition and how we manage it will decide
whether it will be uncomfortable or traumatic.
The financial problems in various countries are direct manifestations
of this transition now taking place.
Government is going to change over the years but the politicians do
not seem to understand that they will not have the resources to keep
expanding their expenditure.
When I was looking for info on the shopping malls I found that in the
UK many police stations are being closed because of money cutbacks.

We will have to make do with less buying "stuff" and be looking more
to the longevity of products.
The throw it away and buy another era has ended.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 5 January 2012 1:00:07 PM
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rehctub there is certainly a large disparity in wage 'value'. eg. holding up a STOP sign may not require much skill other than a bit of nouse and ability to communicate to the other end of the traffic line, but it must be a boring as bat poo job. Then you look at security guards earning the same or less per hour, or aged care and child care assistants also on an uncommonly low wage.

There are many areas where we would agree there is some gap between wage and 'value' however one might make those judgements.

When I was a wee lass, I did earn a low casual wage and managed to pay my share of the rent, food and other bills. But the big difference is the wage gaps were less overall, thus housing affordability and rents were still within reach of lower paid workers. Young people now pay HECS where once tertiary education was virtually free. There have been a lot of changes since the 70s in relation to cost of living even if you discount the fact that many people do not budget well, credit is too easy and some seem to want instant gratification with all the mod cons.

A married couple could afford to have one of them at home to raise kids if desired. Now that is out of reach for most.

The problem comes from the top down not the bottom up - higher wages at the middle and top end push prices up making it impossible to keep lower incomes steady. It is just a fact of life and it is unfair to paint the lower end of the labour market as greedy.
Posted by pelican, Thursday, 5 January 2012 2:37:56 PM
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*We have growth because we employ more energy in the process.*

Only to a point, Bazz. You forget that much of what we do takes
far less energy and we have increasing energy efficiency.

Yes we used to plough, cultivate etc. Now its all no till-deep till,
using a litre of roundup instead. We used to manufacture records,
cds, now its all electronic. How much energy does it take to
manufacture an Ipod, yet it can store what 400 cds used to store.

People used to drive gas guzzlers, not anymore. In fact last time
I checked, energy per person in the US has stayed the same, despite
economic growth per person.

Service industries generate alot of economic growth with far less
energy consumption alot of the time. For example the app "Angry
Birds". Its a fun game for smart phones, Ipads etc. Its generated
around 600 million$ of revenue, but to simply download it would
have used relatively tiny amounts of energy.

When energy becomes expensive, energy efficiency will make a huge
difference. We have yet to address the whole area of logistics to
reduce energy use. But that will only happen when energy is
expensive enough for it to matter
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 5 January 2012 3:13:59 PM
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Kodak! it is closing! 1600 jobs to go!
Gillard did it!
Well no, just thought I would jump in first Technology did.
Just as trucks killed the horse and dray.
Back hoes took the ditch diggers work.
Chain stores are taking the small business ones.
Next? some one will ignore the truth , price wars is a constant in such stores and warn of future price rises.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 5 January 2012 3:40:25 PM
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*A married couple could afford to have one of them at home to raise kids if desired. Now that is out of reach for most*

They still can, Pelican, but they have to drop their expectations.
Where I live, in the country, plenty still do. But they arn't
trying to buy a house in some leafy suburb, which is twice the
size of your average house of 25 years ago. How many houses
were air conditioned, 25 years ago? The list goes on.

People want things now and it is double income couples which
have driven up house prices in the cities, as they compete
with one another and with town planners who want them to live
high density rather then in houses, so limit land releases.
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 5 January 2012 8:16:00 PM
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Yabby is right on this one, people can still live on one wage if they go back to living how my parents did. No internet, no mobile phone, no aircon, no bar fridge, only one TV, only one car, no house insurance, no car insurance, only eat real food. Kids wore generic brand clothing, and built billy carts for fun which are banned now anyway so the kids will have to fly a kite, errr um they're banned to. Maybe they can catch frogs and tadpoles, um nup, banned as well. Make sky rockets, hmm banned also. build cubby houses in the back yard, hmm neighbours complained so banned by councils. Ride their pushies, damn, can't find those Rockbank helmets. Shoot their air rifles, whoa! "BIG" ban on those, hmm can't make sling shots anymore and keep the starlings and possums outta the peach tree. I guess they could smoke dope and play on their Imeds. Nope, mum has to go to work for that. I wounder why they're so unsociable?
Posted by RawMustard, Thursday, 5 January 2012 9:06:39 PM
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Belly, of cause JG didn't cause the demise of Kodak, that's technology at work. I would also suggest the boom in photo printing and sharing, combined with the spike in camera/phone sales, accessories and consumables has pretty much filled the gap.

What Julia Gillard did cause, and should be very ashamed of, is the tax free haven for off shore Internet sellers.

An 11% discount before a discount is very attractive.
u
Here we have our Aussie retailers and wholesalers, doing the right thing, collecting the GST and passing it on, only to be stabbed in the heart because taxing the off shore traders is just to hard.

If every local trader, as one, chose not to charge the GST on items under $1000' what do you think she would do then?

And why shouldn't they!
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 6 January 2012 6:14:30 AM
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