man is not meant to be alone
so the church has charity...to ensure no one needs be

but its not the docter to say..go
nor the church..[any sinnergog]..to say go away

all the things steven listed..arnt re god
but messengers..[and their mess-age quick fix]
ignore the show steven...watch the showman..[god]

see how even the most beast..yet loves their own
we are men..so we can love all that good created

post limitations..divide the mess-age

contuinued from
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=13036&page=0

""individual mourning,..when one of his skin cells dies.""

yes egsactly
god KNOWS energy cant be created,,NOR destroyed
he sustains every lifes energy[that we do to the least..we do to him

""the sloppy use of language..has always annoyed me"""

egsactly...what does survival of the fittest
have to do with the one surving all living.

no death honours the good of life[god]/

""Surely the question..should be whether or not
consciousness and sense of identity survive?""

they do...in total
not a skin cell is left from the story that is you
or i or any...[even the least most hated despised...its all needed to bring us to the atonement..[at one meant][that is most surely all good can be..and only one god is]

""Jung's 'collective unconscious'.""

together we are so great
be one with one and other

""but hardly of much use to me..as an individual.""

man is not designed..to spend eternity alone
[i know im still giving it a go]

only one..is truelly alone
[without equal[peer]
[him]..all good
god

i loved..Heinlein's 'Stranger in a Strange Land),

i grok

""Again, evidence is distinctly lacking.
No doubt, one day I'll be dying to find out.""

we all do
and the minute we know its all true
some just say lord...thankyou

i know your love grace and mercy
now how can i help..[do as you saw jesus do?]
not as the ursurping church orders..[guilts]...us to do

4 me..its about god
good..to copy the good i do see
even in those decieved and decieving

love good by trying to love neighbour..
not his wife/child/dog..nor asssssssets

Dear csteele,

It does work!

When I was diagnosed with bowel cancer - and during my stays
in hospital - I prayed like there was not tomorrow. And for
me I thought there wasn't. Now I'm not a good Catholic, I
admit that. I'm too critical of the church, and the ruthless
powerful men that run it - especially Cardinal Pell whose
the antithesis to what Christ stands for (in my opinion).
And I believe in live and let live. But I found that prayers
helped in my time of need.

Dear Lexi,

Of course it does. The power of the mind is a marvellous thing. Scientists and the medical profession spend literally billions of dollars each year combating the placebo effect when trialling the efficacy of new drugs.

“The response to placebo in these trials was exceptionally large, duplicating more than 80% of the improvement observed in the drug groups. In contrast, the effect of placebo on pain is estimated to be about 50% of the response to pain medication”
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045

I have read somewhere that the only condition that does not respond to the power of prayer was of the heart. They surmised there was some stress to the patient involved knowing others were praying for them.

If the placebo can mimic drug effectiveness in treating some conditions imagine how much more important it would have been before these medicines were available. Perhaps this is why there is such a strong propensity in our species for God creation.

It would be interesting to do a study of unbelievers within Christian families to see if the gains are 'environmental' i.e. caring folk, or spiritual. My guess is it is a combination of both.

Lexi and csteele

While you have both found this sense of community through your faith, I believe that wherever people group together good can come whether it is an environmental group, a hobby club or the local P&C. I am sure religious adherence does provide contentment and meaning to many of different faiths.

I have been lucky enough to witness many examples of the human spirit. It was evident, for example, at my children's secular public school when many lost their homes and possessions during the bushfires and where people rallied around when a family was dealing with cancer or other tragedy.

Whatever the 'force' or source that creates this natural human element of compassion is not as important as the existence of the very real and human capacity to care for others. Without it religion is just an empty receptacle.

As a non-believer it is difficult to explain to those who believe this good can only come from a belief in a creator, but I believe goodness is naturally present, it is only life experiences (maybe genetic leanings) that alter that basic premise. It is a waste of spirit to convince people of something of which they cannot see (both theist and non-theist). The important thing is that this natural human spirit is present however it is sourced.

My view is that religion facilitates this natural urge or human spirit mostly for the better. Like any institution it can be thwarted and evil done in it's name but that is the fault of individuals. That is true of any dogma or group religious or otherwise.

What has to be kept in perspective is that dogma does not get in the way of the goals however one defines them (compassion, tolerance, acceptance, love etc).

I would recommend religion even though I regularly change my mind about my belief in God. My husband is a constant believer and thinks I am going through the religious desert at present.
Whenever I question my belief in God, I frequently think about all He has provided for us. I then think about how there is so much pain and suffering in the World and know that if there is a caring God how can he/she allow it.I'm told that I can't possibly understand all this from God's perspective and if little children starve to death,for example,they are going to heaven anyway so don't be too distraught.I'm also writing from the perspective of one who is fairly economically comfortable and healthy.
Saying all that, religion is a comfort.I am a Catholic and despite it's bad press lately (I think that about 3% of priests and nuns have been molesters)I turn to my religion constantly and go to church regularly. There I hear words of inspiration, where love is the focus and friendship is prominent. I,personally, am a better person because of my religion I'm almost sure of that. I reflect on my life in the light of Jesus' good example. I think I am definitely more tolerant,hopefully more forgiving and my social concience is sharper-for me anyway.

i so often find the materialistic vieuw..a hinderance..
to getting how an eternal immortal thinks..

see spirits must voice
[activate]..a desire..to incarnate materially
they are shown..the roles available...and have full concent[for that lifes events to unfold as it will][see each and everything...is important to reveal the full story of gods glory]

thus in the sick/starving we see
the strong spirits..willing to endure the suffering...
so us lesser stong spirits may seek to heal the ill..to the greater good

[allowing greater honour..to those seeking to end the suffering]..

without the 'victim'...there can be no hero..
we forget that this material illusion seems so real..
to us..egsisting..in this materialistic learning oppertuinity

its not so much what we think
but what we chose to do..or resisted doing

to know god..is as simple
as trying to do good for other..[selflessly]
that we do for the least..we do for the greater good..[god]

sometimes we will
entertain angles unaware
more often than we might think

[and not just angels..fallen angels
know how to speak with that still quiet inner voice..of conscience/un con-see ance too]

often its not what we did [anything]
by why...what we expected in return

good for gods sake
and his creation