Dear Lexi and WmTrevor,

I question your optimism concerning the victory of reason. Please consider the power of irrationality. The test of faith is generally to accept what reason rejects. It is an atrocious act to murder one’s son yet Abraham passed the test of faith when he showed he was willing to do it. Apologists argue that Abraham didn’t actually murder Isaac, but later in the Bible Jephthah (Judges 11) murdered his daughter to keep a stupid vow.

I don’t know the motives of Theodosius when he made Catholic Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire in 380. However, it could be that he recognised that the exertion involved in accepting virgins having babies, dead people returning and other Christian nonsense would leave people too mentally exhausted to question arbitrary rule.

The test of faith in the irrational was explicitly expressed by Tertullian whose De Carne Christi defence of the tenets of orthodox Christianity against docetism reads in the original Latin:

Crucifixus est Dei Filius, non pudet, quia pudendum est;
et mortuus est Dei Filius, prorsus credibile est, quia ineptum est;
et sepultus resurrexit, certum est, quia impossibile.
— (De Carne Christi V, 4)

"The Son of God was crucified: there is no shame, because it is shameful.
And the Son of God died: it is wholly credible, because it is unsound.
And, buried, He rose again: it is certain, because impossible."

The Nazis were well aware of the power of the irrational.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/12/the-education-of-peter-drucker/4484/

from ‘The Education of Peter Drucker’

“Germany had entered the nightmare years. Millions had lost jobs in the Great Depression. Black-shirted Nazi thugs paraded in the streets. Unreason ruled. Peter witnessed a "wildly cheering rally" at which a Nazi logician displayed the "abracadabra of fascism" with this burst of irrationality: "We don't want lower bread prices, we don't want higher bread prices, we don't want unchanged bread prices—we want National Socialist bread prices!"”

I would love to live in a tolerant society inclusive for one and all, but I appreciate the power of the irrational to deny me that pleasure.

Dear David F.,

The antidote to what is fundamentally wrong is the
cultivation of what is fundamentally right.
And the fact that we may not succeed should not
stop us from continuing to try.

I have spent my life looking for such a world Lexi.
What human would not want it?
But even that question could be answered with these words,too many, too many care now and forever for them selves only.
I am aware my words convict me, in some eyes, no one can re live my childhood, both the very best people, and they very bigoted come from Church's/faiths.
We, I was born WASP are a minority religion, yes we are, Islam maybe Buddhist out number us.
And I do feel, absolutely, every creed I know of, in the end stands in the way of humanity being one.
Fear superstition many reasons exist for the straw of religions.
And a fine list of ways to live/not to live.
Given this task, writing a new religions Holly book.
For a new God, some known authors have already done it, we could craft a single God.
For all humanity.
But in the wrong hands, and that is what would take place, it too would inflict needless pain on them, the others, those, maybe the me,s
Those who look in wounder at evolution and ask how can any one not see it is the truth?

Dear Lexi,

The antidote to what is fundamentally wrong is what is fundamentally right. However, although I have many decided opinions I cannot be sure what is fundamentally right. I can only express what I think. Therefore I must allow those who I think are fundamentally wrong to express themselves. At one time I was sure there was a God. Now I am equally sure there are no supernatural beings of any kind.

I recently had a long argument with my son who thinks Marx is the most wonderful person in recent history. To me he was a brilliant bigot who inspired a vast murder machine. Usually we just have pleasant conversations, but when we touch that subject our passions explode. I am reasonably sure we will have a pleasant converstion next time we talk.

I wish I could have a pleasant conversation with runner, but I don't expect that I ever will.

Dear David F.,

I still have a lot to learn but I am slowly
learning that the art of reasoned, intelligent
argument is a skill that's not easily acquired.
However, I find that if I don't sound too
dogmatic and do concede a minor point - it helps
the other person to be more receptive. Of course
with emotive issues - it doesn't always work.
Still a minor admission, should not make one sound
weak, rather a little less obstinate.

Good luck with your son. Brave man to take you on. ;-)

As someone once said, david f, though probably not in Latin… Time heals all wounds but not necessarily before you bleed to death.

My limited optimism might just mean that 'eventually' is before the sun goes nova… Have you ever noticed that the "power of the irrational" you so-correctly exampled does not include the power of a sense of humour? Did Peter Drucker mention in the midst of all the Nazi discussion about bread prices, whether or not there was any bread?

I suspect, and Lexi and Belly may agree, that the hard part is having irrational people realise that the biggest threat to themselves are other irrational people and ideas.

Though I don't think it is an irrational idea to say that the glass is always full - even if half of it is air. Others may disagree, but it sounds good and there's no aftermath (touché with that one, by the way david).

For the Gilbertians amongst us, does this from Iolanthe relate to the original topic of the thread?

"Iolanthe: No matter! The Lord Chancellor has no power over you. Remember you are half a fairy. You can defy him - down to the waist.
Strephon: Yes, but from the waist downwards he can commit me to prison for years! Of what avail is it that my body is free, if my legs are working out seven years' penal servitude?
Iolanthe: True. But take heart - our Queen has promised you her special protection. I'll go to her and lay your peculiar case before her."