Although the media appears to be pre-occupied with gay marriage the sleeper issue at the Labor convention is pre-selection. If the party moves to adopt a USA style primary pre-selection process it could be a game breaker; not only will it reduce the influence of independents and minor parties but it will break the stranglehold that factions have on the political process. Overnight accountability will have switched from the powerbrokers back to the electors. Furthermore the Liberal Party will have little choice but to follow suit.
The weakness of the current system is that the majority of voters are alienated from the political system – both parties operate as closed clubs. Join either party and you will spend most of your time kicking your heels in the lobby whilst real decisions are taken place behind closed doors. Little wonder that voters are disillusioned.
The reason a shift to a USA style primary system will be a game breaker is not because that is a perfect system. That system too has become as corrupted as vested interests manipulate the process but it takes time for these vested interests to work out the best way to control the process. The advantage is that in the short term at least it will revitalise the political process in as much it will require prospective candidates to demonstrate that they are critically engaged with the issues that matter to the electorate.
Will the Labor Party have the courage to open up its pre-selection process? If it does then the odds are that it may well manage to defeat the Coalition in 2013 for their selected candidates will have already established their credibility with the electorate as a whole and not just with the party faithful. It could also spell the end of the Greens and the minor parties for their supporters would be tempted to use the preselection process as a Trojan Horse to put forward their candidates.

i listend to the juliar on abc
taklking about how they as young people
thought they had something to say...[mainly from the left]

but in time the shut up
and then go to the right

[ok she said the first bit
but forgets all she used to think
cause only the right gets into power
be it lib/lab/gree..or demonic autoc-rat

public serviants love these party meetings
cause they run the two party system

the backrom facelwess men
do they speak publicly?

hell labratter policy was get rid of the drug laws
so they got rid of hokers and gambling..[by legalising that]

oh who give a hoot
two partypatsies
the lot of em...serving the elite corperat adenda of the elite exploiting plundering anf looting the wealth of the common weal[ie the people and OUR estates]

tell me how much current party policy they put through
was it partyy policy the nbm..or the carbon tax and carbon trading..or the war on smokers

[partyy policy is the vener
to con you ladies]..the party wants you..
it dont need you....once the vote is counted

unless its to say how good my party is
lol

so sad thats some tranpherance of affection
lol to a name or a mind set based on an image..a delusion

in lue of real true love
and govt being there to serve you
not tax you into early graves and put police on ya
when you finaly dare complain

bah party loyalty is treason
ban parties..[and fat cat free lunches]
and bailing out capitalists...

and give up trying to pick
ya mates wind solar water/..scemes as winners]
and clean up the medicine subsidy..its corperate welfare

diabetus isnt sick
its lack of self control
mostly

BAYGON thanks informed thread and post.
Labor the party of true reform seems doomed to be praised for it only in retrospect.
I am well aware of intended changes and benefited from some already achieved.
I have voted in party elections twice online, and had my say on issues too.
I am full of hope, at the promised changes.
Trade unionist for life,I now take the view unions must not keep the 50% rule.
In a country that has less than 20% union members,this rule stunts the growth of both unions and the party.
MORE IMPORTANTLY it overlooks the needs of both.
Often the votes are made by robot members,folk who go to conference for the grog and to vote AS TOLD TO not even understanding, and in some cases those telling them, know not either.
ALP deserves its chance to turn around the missing members, stop branch stacking and start letting members not HQ pick those to stand.
I am full of hope and see the party reborn self interest not killed but contained.

Dear Baygon,

Thanks for this thread and your opening post.
It sounds exciting - the possibilities are great
and I hope that things do happen and positive
changes do occur to bring party politics into
the twenty first century - instead of them being
stuck in the antiquated past.

Lexi as you know I live for change and trust youth to give it.
But Labor is confronted as much for the fact it is and has been trying to live in the present as it is challenged with living in the past.
I think it has from 1972 struggled with that very problem.
Progressives knew/know change is a must.
Stagnation, however still is an issue.
I am isolated from my unionist past, because I acted as I lived took a bad boss on.
But it it not that but love of both movements, that has me challenging the old , and always wrong, hold the union movement thought it had on the child it gave birth to.
You will see claims from the left Labor betrayed its past, by moving to ground that made election victory's possible?
You too will see the Conservatives say Labor is a puppet of the unions, untrue but asks the question.
In refusing the mining tax, haveing to be dragged to support plain packaging while excepting big tobaccos bribes , are conservatives the puppets of big money.
Labor is well on the way to its new future ,it will continue to be flogged by its detractors but continue the journey.
When we, me you any one , is upset with a Labor policy or act consider this.
Every fight has a known out come before the first Punch is thrown.
And it is also known who will and who will not support it.
Only a silly party again and again, starts a fight it under stands it will not win.
Labor must not, ever be driven in to by leftist taunts, left mud, by a few leaving the many on dry ground laughing at us.

Dear Belly,

I can only hope that Labor's National Conference will
allow many voices to be heard and will take on board
some of the positive changes that are being suggested.
Labor needs to attract new members and supporters -
especially the young - and give them reasons as to why
they should join the party.

i caught an hour of the blather before falling asleep
inoted the empty seats...noted the 2 de vote that ensures the motion will fail

ol tony has allready flagged a party line
so allowing the conscience vote...is a loose

its as clever as howards vote for a replublic
the silly thing was how happy the wtrong penny is
the extracts of her speach didnt flag that it has to be a party line
[or it will be doomed to fail]

but heck it keeps the few delicate deligates onside
[the 208...and even gioves the 184 loosers a face saving place

one of the absurdities was hand counting the delcates
like counting sheep...over 12 minutes to count to 392
is this party so intent sending their delicates to sleep
with this stoneage method of counting

we can get the worm..on tv at elect-ion time..but not seemingly when time must not be wasted[unless the object is to waste time]

anyhow its mind numbing
and really to those knowing politicks
doing egsactly what its meant to be making sure dont happen

no change
cammeron 'expects change'...lol
well here is a change doug..[secret ballot]

yes/no..*numberd voting cards
public tally

even black ball
white ball

ohhhh hell
why bother

OUG I asure you mate, some place within your post you got some thing right.
Just because I fail to see it does not mean it is not there.
Please do not quote DOCTOR NO on Labor party issues, he is unable to consider even his own party's problems, unless he buys a mirror.
Lexi, yes no easy task, bringing the young on board.
Everyday, nearly, I get a report, all members who want it get it.
And just today replied, reminding yet again, the private property signs have to come down from ALP branches.
Good party leaders, introduce the young, train them but not to his/her thoughts, good leaders under stand MENTORING is far better than control, so too is trusting Delegating.
I do not claim we are there, or are sure to get there, but figure heads, entrenched in power by others, with no skill or real plan, must go.
And, with great pride this old fella will fight to remove them and see youth in charge always.

Dear Belly,

You're a rare man, my friend.

Is it better to have a process in a forum where views can be expressed and voted on publicly or a system where policy is determined behind closed doors on behalf of influential lobbyists and corporate sponsors?

Wobbles a fair question.
Haveing been to many conferences, and haveing been one of the rare few who knew anything about politics, strange but true.
In my delegation, change is a must.
But the doors have never been locked at such.
Public gallery's exist,for party members.
And 40 now 50%, is that not insanity? of the Branch delegates go to go.
But like the branches /unions/my delegation it was heads.
People who farmed power, the juice one calls it, of numbers, Branch/Union who controlled.
The NSW DEBACLE was fueled by this, Sussex Street! became a dirty word.
In life we must understand age, CAN stifle change or foster it, we must see and understand its effects on our leadership.
I think, that my concerns separate me from my past, but serve my party far better than being a yes man to a dill.
I am proud of the reforms, certain of the out comes,and see it every day.
ALP members can ,as I do, get involved online, and have a say on issues and change.
A warning.
We are doing far better than some think we are covered in deep layers of mud and one day, yes we will, power/media/and the NO COALITION will be seen for what it truly is far worse than the painting they apply to us.

Happy ALP squashed the blind attempt to ban live cattle exports.
If we could export those who put it up Labor would be better for it.
As a member of country Labor, road kill in the NSW election, I find it hard my party seems intent on knocking us down as we regain our feet.
ALP was born in the bush.
Found all else ok and happy the party is moving in the right direction.

This morning SMH a paper showing some balance, has yet another leak.
For me at least it proves the need, desperate need, for reform.
My party must not remain in the hands of factions.
It is critical of Rudd's style in government, partly a shared concern.
And it puts the blame for the Leaks against Gillard on Rudd.
Ignoring? this whole story , its leaking from within the right faction of the party, along with the deliberate snubbing of Rudd, is just as bad.
If my party is to be time and again white anted by those faction heads.
May I ask these few things?
The supposed Rudd leaks, was anything he leaked about Gillard not true?
Without them,no happiness from me here, would we have any different opinions of Gillard.
If the anti Rudd faction insists he should not return, are they going to put up another or?
Ride Julie Gillard and my party into the ground leaving ALP supporters to suffer.
Last, those heads, the power brokers who own the power of those behind them.
Are you proud of putting your interests before the party's.
And in what way is my proud trade union movement benefiting by you ripping the guts our of both it and Labor?

The United States does not have compulsory voting either in the primaries or the general elections. The percentage of voters voting is much smaller in the primaries than the general elections. In the primaries in some cases the most ideological focussed candidates have been selected. They often are unacceptable to the general electorate.

Since there is no national law determining the primary voting regulations it varies widely in different states. In some states anybody can vote to select the candidates for a party even if they don't belong to that party. In other states one has to belong to a party to vote in that party's primary. To belong to a party all one has to do is register as a member of the party. There are no dues.

In Iowa there is a caucus system. Voters from a party will get together in various groups. Each group will discuss and agree on the candidate they will support. The results from the separate caucuses are not merged.

In Connecticut where I lived there was a convention followed by a primary. I was a delegate to the convention since I was a Democratic town councilman. At the convention candidates are nominated. If a candidate got a majority then that candidate would appear on the primary ballot as the party endorsed candidate. Candidates with between 10% and 50% would appear on the ballot as non-endorsed candidates. Candidates with less than 10% could still get on the ballot through petition. I was going to make a speech endorsing a candidate. Before I made the speech several party functionaries told me that Healy, a party identity, did not want a primary fight so I was pressured not to make my speech. I made it anyhow, and my candidate did not get 10%. He wound up endorsing the candidate with a majority. It was a thoroughly disgusting process.

having been political for a long time
the whole process is as david put it
""a thoroughly disgusting process.''

but much is to blame to media
9 reported the nuke thing passed by two thirds
10 reported again in a clever way

abc then said the same numbers as the gay thing
too much of a co-incidence

i noted the gallery appeard full when camerion spoke
but gradulally got more empty after that..as each speaker spoke

but all gouing to a party is for
is to sit and listen..then vote by absurdly antiquated method[designed to put on a show]..in lue of networking or talking..or actually exchanging info p-olicy[to wit the reason for meting]

but they aqre all the same
i have watched the same farce at many meetings..[to rally lol..the faithfull][..to bolster the esteam of the 'workers';at voting day or capital raising events

regardless unanswerd was the questions

was nbn partyy 'policy'
was the war on smokers..party policy'
was pink batts party policy,...no carbon tax/tyrading a party policy

in short i expect not
to wit its all show and mirrors
entertaintment for the party fatefull

to let the backroom backdoor men
run their perty party members...adendas
to serving the elite..who own all parties/media/public service

[plus so much more]..education finance
religeon war...others lands
others food others minerals
others water

bah the party system is rotted
from the knees up..stands on feet
of complicite malable..decieving..illinformed feet of clay

have a nice day eh

Those two posts while interesting are remote from the threads subject.
I do dislike our preferential system.
It rewards failure EB Wilkie running and winning on preferences of party's unlike him in every way.
Worth noting, shaking my head in my opinion, England is considering going to our system.
One vote one value is my wish.
My last post has now become the subject in our national papers.
I have dug my trench, will not retreat, I stand against the faction I am part of.
The gutless leak that Rudd leaked, is infamous, and the equal AT LEAST of his perceived crime.
It comes via what I hoped was dead in my party, the Sussex Street, thoughts we matter more than the party.
My party can rant and rave it can shore up Gillard till the numbers stack a wanted way.
But it can not constantly divert attention like this.
Rest assured power brokers, your on going actions are heart breaking and betray the ALP.
Gillard is unloved, she leads an unloved Abbott.
These two are less likely to survive than the Greek economy.
Grab two Commonwealth car drivers, do not bother picking, put one in the job of each above and watch the polls.
Wait for Julia to bounce and its NSW again.

Malcolm is asking Toni for a vote on same sex tango. Toni is in the wrong religion for such activities.

Turnbull however has some understanding of numbers and politics Abbott only says NO.
If the Mad Monk insists on his Church's path he wedges his party.

On subject the squabble Gillards supporters bought on, deliberately ignoring the man who said sorry, and who won for Labor in dark times.
Was is and always will be at least,more in my view, the equal of Rudd's supposed leaks.
Remember those leaks, the Gillard road train is most upset because they are true.

It seems we wait poorly lead till the numbers stack up for other than Rudd.
Even if it is on the apposition benches.

here is an idea
let all votes be conscience votes
let all votes be by secret ballot

let everyone habve their say
online and in real time

uncensored!

alp should be the same online as the lib/green etc
one open forum..like we got here
where ALL PARTIES GET ONLINE

to let us chose by informed concent
in the same place..[much like here
but a little less partyzen]..

ie not be bombarded with party propganda[spin]
kept in..a one party..one way..my way or the highway

give us facts
not hold selective reports
till the best moment
to leak a bit

set us fre
not put us into a box

not herd us into the slaughter yard
with spin..and backdoor backroom officials..running a global scam

Baygon,

The coalition already has pre-selection for its candidates, so the labor party, far from leading change, has a long way to catch up.

As far as same sex marriage is concerned, firstly, both Juliar and Tony promised that there would be no change to the marriage act. While Juliar regularly breaks election promises, Tony prefers not to. Secondly, any proposed changes to the act would require more than just changing the definition in the act "between a man and a woman". And Labor is not past trying to slide in a raft of other changes under the cover of gay marriage.

If I were a betting man I would guess that after consideration, TA would recommend a conscience vote be allowed for the coalition, but only once the electorate has voted for a mandate at the next election.

Let's face the fact; ALP is never going to reform in the near future. It needs far too much courage, and foresight than what the present Gillard-Swan-Shorten, et al can muster. There is too much of vested interest for the reigning Gillard. She is in denial about the future of the ALP. Meanwhile, the rest of us know that Labour will certainly lose the nest election!! Labour must be utterly trounced and from its demise will rise a new Labour; a Labour Party that is more in line with what Rudd recently proposed and what Blaire (UK) did to modernise (New) British Labour Party. The current APL is in denial simply because the members are feuding as to who will lead, who gets what cabinet posts, etc. Let's hope that Shorten gets a cabinet post and then all of Australia will puke in disgust and walk away from Labour in countless droves. Liberals under Abbott (Mr No) is not a better alternative, either. This only means good news for the Greens & independents. However, A Turnbull lead Coalition will be an unbeatable force for the ALP, Greens and Independents. But sadly, the Liberals are in the same boat as the ALP; feuding members. Who cares about the greater good of the Nation!