Check out Tallbloke. A whole new batch of EAU emails, even more damming than the first lot have landed, & are coming to a blog near you soon.

Global warming is really dead, & so must be Julia. Even those independents can't ignore this lot.

I often show well, disrespect, for posts such as this.
See I doubt hasbeen or any of us, can claim the scientific back ground to know all about this.
I suspect truly, we are pawns, used by both sides, in a slanging match.
That with deliberate intent, some, on both sides spread lies, in the name of self interest.
But look beyond the posts cover page.
See please the blame, for a world wide fight.
Is placed on Gillard.
For?
Taxing the polluters, to reach exactly the same target, 5% Tony Abbott has set.
And he has a 70 BILLION DOLLAR black hole, of unfunded promises.
I however am quite content, assured, confident, within this next ten years history, events yet to come, and Tony Abbott/ his successor, will prove me right.
Coalition will not remove the Carbon tax, it never intended to.
It will not remove the mining tax ,it can not afford to.
It will remove Mr Abbott, he knows this.
He like the lost Lady Gillard understands a basic, Australia tells them daily they are not leadership material.

Well done Hasbeen. You have just got a plug from GrahamY on Ambit Gambit, in the fourth-last paragraph of his post there. See: http://www.ambitgambit.com/2011/11/23/has-wikileaks-paved-the-way-for-climategate-2-0/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter . GrahamY said:

"I first found out about this new controversy,
which is only a few hours old, courtesy of this
post to our forum referencing information on a
blog called TallBloke, which led me on to Business Insider,
and hence to the climate blogs BI references."

The words 'this post' are a text link in GrahamY's Ambit Gambit post to the opening post in this thread.

Very telling what Graham has to say about the Google search algorithm favouring the MSM over the blogger that actually broke the story!

a link might help hazer

mr bell..that 70 billion...is bassed on
what juliar is raising...that tony needs to replace

if not tax paid by you
[one of the only 500 who will pay]
well then there is still income tax due

but wait..lets ditch the nbn..[there is 60 billion we dont need to spend]..so we get down to 10 billion

heck lets ditch the 'lol''polution tax'
saving one trillion by 2020

and keep the tax cuts..and bracket adjustments
and that tax on miners too

notice how juliar first taxed then spent
so by election time we forget..

bah the sheeple deserve the scum
that leads them to eternal debt..as homeless/landless jobless peons

over taxed
even ripped off with fewer public holydays
and tripple power prices..meterd water...[recycled water]
drink sewrage..eat msg..

breath ammonia gas..emmited legally by orica

thats polution mate
not breathing

Trouble is Belly "it" needs to be re-named .
I am sitting in my office it's 2 months past Spring and I am cold.
My Tomato plants are only one third the height they should be , it's been too cold.
So when does it get HOT or is it just Light your bleating about.
All the predictions of your Brethren haven't happened , remember Penny's Tipping Points ? and Rudd's now three years past !
It's a pity Predictions aren't tangibles we could hide them with the Hockey Stick.
You and your Brethren need to do a re'predict but for Gods sake please don't make it so expensive and worthless.

well spotted hassa
well done grayman

well linked together forrest

i visited graymans blog

clicked on the tall man link

but aborted it rather quickly..
as it was chewing up my limited downloads

anyhow..here is tallmans link

http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/breaking-news-foia-2011-has-arrived/#more-3471

Breaking news: FOIA 2011 has arrived !
Posted: November 22, 2011 by tallbloke

214..Our old friend ‘Foia’ dropped an interesting comment
on the Ian Wilson thread at 9.28am GMT today.

then a dowload..
''Downloading now, check it out at your own peril,
I don’t know what’s in it yet:''

me either i aborted

then...""UPDATE 10.34am GMT

OK, it’s genuine, and as far as I can tell, virus free. McAfee, Malwarebytes’, Avast, Superantispyware and Ad-aware all say it’s clean. (Thanks Niklas)

By the way, please redact any addresses,
phone numbers etc before posting any juicy bits here.

Wattsup has a thread running
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/22/climategate-2-0/

Climate audit
http://climateaudit.org/2011/11/22/new-climategate-emails

Air vent
http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/climategate-2-0/

Message to ‘FOIA’

Thank you, whoever you are,

freedom of information is a principle worth upholding.

Here’s the README contents:.....'''

ok my download limits said leave
so thats as far as i got

i recall one guy saying its encrypted
[so why chew up my limited downloads..AUTO downloading it]

anyhow
well dun all

This is a twitpic of the first page of a Google search result using the search terms 'TallBloke+Climategate 2.0' http://twitpic.com/7i1afx

The twitpic can be made to display full screen by hovering the mouse over the top of the picture then clicking the 'full screen' option that displays.

Time of search is shown top right of screen.

Ambit Gambit now second result, but Business Insider still top result.

Well I've read enough now to know, with absolutely no doubt, that many of the warmist "scientists" knew damn well that much that was being promoted as 95% sure, was totally wrong.

They also knew that they had virtually nothing that proved, or even confidently supported the AGW theory.

That they knew this, & continued to help governments waste billions of our money shows just what they are. I doubt there is a single skerrick of honesty among the lot of them.

I do think that a few of them did believe their cause, but were so dishonest that they would use any means to get control of the agenda, & outcome.

Anyone who believes that Rudd, Gillard, Turnbull & the rest of them have not been given "behind closed doors" briefings on the real state of climate science, & any doubtful possibility of a global warming catastrophe, or even problem, is a bloody idiot.

That we have some very nice people who post on here, who have been taken in by these barefaced liars, both in climate science & politics is obvious, & perhaps defines how nice they are.

I can only hope that they put the effort into reading this explosive stuff, see how they have been deceived, & come to a logical conclusion.

Now is the time for all those in the science community, who know damn well the whole thing is concoction, to screw their little courage into a ball, & come out & say so. If they don't they deserve to be forever damned, & "science" to be treated as a bureaucratic con, peopled by worthless nonentities.

Hasbeen

If the people of Australia are stupid enough to re elect this incompetent and deceitful mob we deserve everything we get. They never have been interested in truth so why should they start now. They endorse union money being spent on prostitutes and sit by watching boat people drown through their pig headedness. Pointless appealing to morality or truth with this mob. They have run up debt at the rate of knots and are now going to blame Abbott for not fulfilling another promise of getting the budget in surplus. Mr Abbott should not of jumped on the political bandwagon when it comes to the gw fairytale. He has also displayed dishonesty.

Well come to our new poster.
A few points of interest for you.
No well informed poster would blame Gillard the lost for a world theory on climate change.
Interesting you think the tax is impeding the growth of your tomatoes.
Mine are quite advanced want a few?
Yes most unlike summer, wounder if it will be like summer when summer gets here.
OUG mate,attention please.
It is the shadow finance minister, not Labor, who says yes they have to FIND 70 BILLION dollars in cuts.
To FUND THEIR SPENDING.
I now enter in my funny stuff book, the under standing tomatoes grow slower under a carbon tax along side curtains fade in daylight saving, cows milk less, and the Sun is to hot at bed time.
PS
My sarcasm, not closely based on truth, is some thing I stole from the temporary leader of the opposition Tony the phony Abbott.
A tip.
Watch Tony closely, you can, always, tell if he is about to lie, his lips begin to move.

So much depends upon the asking of the right question, doesn't it?

`

Here's what I think might be one such, from the TallBloke website:

"[2007] What if climate change appears to be
just mainly a multidecadal natural fluctuation?
They’ll kill us probably [...]
<2267> Wilson:"

The reason I seemingly cherrypick this Climategate 2.0 email is that it called to mind a multidecadal fluctuation in relation to rainfall in SE Queensland revealed in this post ( http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5616#75114 ) to the comments thread to OLO article author Peter Ravenscroft's 'What's a bone-dry city worth?' http://onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=5616 , in March 2007. The actual source was an article by Peter Ravenscroft to the Brisbane Institute dated 16 February 2006, to which I provided this link:
http://www.brisinst.org.au/resources/brisbane_institute_water_crisis.html

It appears this link has become subject to link rot. The Brisbane Institute may have taken the article down. It would not surprise me if the Institute was politically pressured to do so, as the linked article may have constituted damning evidence as to the unwisdom of the cancellation of the Wolfdene Dam project in 1990 and the attempt to make the Wivenhoe flood-mitigation dam double as a storage dam, witness the January 2011 Brisbane flood.

Peter Ravenscroft's BI article contained an illustration, 'The Underlying Pattern', a graph of Brisbane rainfall 1840-2004. Government, both Federal and State, or at least the senior water supply engineers they sacked in 1990, would almost certainly have known of this multidecadal fluctuation.

Just wondering whether GrahamY can use his influence with a major sponsor of OLO to have Ravenscroft's BI article reposted, or have Peter Ravenscroft republish it on OLO ?

`

Climate change in the service of politics.

`

Brought to you by an old has-been and the bleeding edge vehicle of the blogosphere, LSS Palindromic Enterprise*, as a possible concrete example of what the TallBloke site has revealed in generality to the public at large.

`

*http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4829#128779 explains. See, I have used the Author Index!

Belly it was you who introduced Australian politics to this thread. Garum Masala's not blamed the poor tomato growth on the tax, just highlighted the view that the weather has not exactly fulfilled the predictions.

I think that you protest just a little too much.

Some are clearly using the threat of AGW to push other agenda's and are prepared to lie, intimidate and exaggerate to support those agenda's which include the wealth/poverty redistribution which makes up the backbone of that new tax that's not a tax.

Some of the deniers are just as willing to lie and intimidate to deny any possibility that mankind could be influencing the climate.

What is clear is that a lot of money is being channelled into activities which on the face of it have little likely hood of making any real difference to CO2 emissions and that there has been enough spin and lies exposed from the highest levels of "The science is settled" camp that we should be asking some hard questions and ensuring that the things we do are actually likely to mitigate the risk rather than serve the interests of those mostly interested changing the lifestyles of others.

R0ber

sure belly
i know it was opposition figures
the cost of unwinding labouite taxes

but your mates have cleverly spun-it arround
the 70 billion is only IF..libs unwind the tax
and much de[pends on just what they cut...and what other savings..[or tax grabs..they decide to instal]

i dont trust neither party ol mate
juliar is spending..and raising taxes
to cancel the tax..well lets hear the cost

but its labratters partly..who forced that..with this insane tax
plus the nbn..plus the water buyback..and so much more 'other stuff..like that 12 billion green fund

i would simply make all fund applicants..pay it back
ie loan them money..not gift it for free to mates

but mate
think

why all them lies?
plus so many more to come

plus the predictions/modeling being in time proved wrong
im for making the liars pay..and charged with colluduing to defraud

The warmist fools are Amazingly quiet in this thread. What, no intimidation, no far out claims no APOLOGIES?

This is a beauty that shows the kind of people we're dealing with.
http://podcasts.mrn.com.au.s3.amazonaws.com/rayhadley/20111123-rh1-flannery.mp3

Yes a litany of lies and deception.The Greens are treacherous liars who want to use Carbon taxes to finance Bob Brown's " Global Governance".

We cannot trust either of the major parties or the Greens.It is the lesser of 3 evils that we vote on.

We need a new party based on Liberty,reducing the size of Govt and elimination of the counterfeiting or our money by private banks.

If it's such a blatant hoax, why is Abbott prepared to hand bags of taxpayers money to bribe polluters in order to reduce the production of "a weightless gas" by millions of tons?

Who is really conning who?

Wobbles by inference far more than a lost few consider the whole thing a hoax.
And base it on science being the product of lies!
Some of the ramblings are quite remote from reality.
Some try very hard to prove what no side can, yet.
I do not doubt, some true gooses sent these e mails.
I have no doubt, please do not kick the reporter!, an existing dislike for greens and some conservationists.
Is blinding some to some science truths and a deliberate, yes planned miss information campaign is finding support from some who are unaware of the entrapment they willingly walk in to.
I feel you waste your time, we are out numbered here.
But the climate change man made in part is real.
Ten years from now both sides will agree, it will be policy of both.
And Australia will have been pated on the back for its brave actions.
We you and I will gain no ground here, if science is jeered at we should not expect to.

its the qualuity of fraud science..that is the real truth
at the link i refute basic science beliefs
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12844&page=0

everyday belief..taught to us as children

but belief..that none of you can explain
just like many are at a loss to explain the lol[science of global warning]..funny enough the same topic..as this one

and thats how we got seemingly off topic[there]
its like wtf has god to do with cli-mate..[its the peer revieuw...ULTI-mate control by an elect..that validates insane theories[like agw]

if its got peers..its become systematicly perverted
look at enron..or bernie madeoff with all that cash

or that even tony has 'faith'..in the science
[did you note the peer presure there..!]

so he comes up with multi billion gifts
to the same scamers..that reap the harvest of wind

double meanings intended
its called spin.,...

peer revieuw spin..has ensured peers comfort..by maniplulating omnipotant forces..[only they can save us from]..like carbon..or weather..or demons..or a 'venge=full god'..or natural selectors

what to do when you got a liar running things
issue euro bonds?

bailout ever more too big to fail's..
who went broke..on the latest global warming scam?

subsidies and a special buy back price..[for those able to afford bying in on the SCEME]..and doubled electicioty water..transport charges..for the peons...[they can pay off..on 25% intrest rated credit cards]

all bvecause babnkers make the money
but fail to make the ursury that accumulates[compounds]..on it

meaning for you to pay your ursury[determined by peers]
others need to default..[big time]...next our elite PEERS..will hyper inflate you back into poverty

hyperinflation means the same as quantive easing
basiclly it inflates cost and deflates..the value

but heck you love lies
thats how come priests rape kiddies
and peers got rich by making you thing c02 is poisen

its the same topic
same cause
same cure

Where have all the non believers gone, it doesn't take much does it. Re -runs of old emials still blowing around in the north wind.

Pull ya head out of the sand and get with it. Carbon is causing a great deal of happenings around the globe. Polar bears have virtually no home left, and all you say is it's all crap.

Where's Has--been suspiciously quiet. It's about time for another rant.

A solar farm set to develop with some 10,000 panels + parabolic mirrors. A private investment, which will flow into the grid.

The russians have been drilling down into antarctic ice, 5 km's down and still going, solid ice. Ice from antarctic is breaking away in huge chunks several km's across, never before has such large cracks appeared in the ice, which is forced toward the ocean. The ice shelf is being undercut by rising sea temperature, allowing huge ice melts.

Extreme weather event has hit Margaret River WA now being declared a state of emergency. After last year and early this years drought. Floods in the upper reaches of NSW, makes you wonder, what is going on. A rash of earth quakes, very frequent, and big. Who is going to cop the next one.

579 keeps the spin going

'Extreme weather event has hit Margaret River WA' Yes a hot day nearing summer after a winter of plentiful rainfall that Mr Álarmist' told us not to expect anymore.

Plentiful rain that's right, NSW has floods and more coming in a few days. another 2 inches or so. What has climate change got to do with one scenario. We are in for all sorts of god made extremes. What is your version of the impending apocalypse due late next year.

579

What is your version of the impending apocalypse due late next year.

Is that when Israel will be attacked by her enemies? Do you know something others don't?

It's hard to get straight answers these days, i think i will look it up on Utube, and get an unbiased opinion. New Gunea got the shakes today.
Solar heating is a good project for the next winter. Solar heated water with a parabolic mirror and pipe it into a tank during the day. Then run the hot water through piping to make a heat radiator backed with a 12v fan, run from my battery bank. This will save around $ 300 in gas / annum.

The russians have found a gigantic oil field in Siberia, they say possibly bigger than arabia. Should leave it where it is and go in another direction. Massive gold reserves also, no good leaving that there. Use the gold to fund a few wind turbines and solar power and get rid of those nuke power stations. Germany is getting out of nuke power, and building some temporary gas fired generators, they say they will still meet their quota in time.

numbers not name quote..""A solar farm set to develop with some 10,000 panels + parabolic mirrors. A private investment, which will flow into the grid.""

how about some detail sport

is that the northern territory one
where govt is going halvsies

or have they got one of them youbuet feedin tarrif deals till 2030
[you know where they pay you double the going rate..where people have been caught putting cheap coal powerd lights on solar cells to get the extra feedin rate]

are they putting inj the grid infastructure
seems govt usually picks up that cost as well

anyhow your talking about sometrhing
but lack clear detail

but detail dont matter
if your side wins right?

so many secret deals
so much influence bying

lol
private fiance..what a joke

cghina and gernany subsidise solar and wind production
then the capitalist takes his govt contract to the bank
then cleans up when he sells shares

that go into our super
and by the time we collect its value is gone
solar wont last as long as it takes to retire
whats the expected life of solar cells

how about things like wind needing power in[when the wind dies
just to keep it cool

[how about your furnis..
what power inputs needed when the sun goes down]
how much serviceing is needed..or refurbishment costs

you got passion
but you been decieved

You have been left in the dark mate, Solar panels have been operating for 45 years and still producing power.
Wind turbines use power for air conditioning of the electrical components, when there aint no wind ,it gets power from a battery.
2 gigantic solar farms in vic, not only a power station a tourist attraction. There is no govt; money involved, except feed in tarrif.
The installer is also the retailer.
You get subsidized for home solar, and hot water solar, but when you get solar hot water, make it a big one and use the hot water for winter heating.

There is a process for extracting co2 from flue gasses, namely coal fired power station gas, C2 H4 OHNH2 + H2O + CO2 < > C2 H4 OHNH3 + HCO3. The end product is then ready for storage. Hope this is helpful.

mate your giving opinion
not fact that we can confirm or refute

you admit the feedin tarrif
and over simplify extracting the c02
[who have collected much cash..and havnt done it

that aircon con...mate the cost of batteries
puchas/service..makes that suggestion insane

name names ol mate
your wheels are spinning as bad as your opinions

those who know too much
are getting in on the scam

and its a scam mate
unmless you collect AND USE ...ONLY your own power
ALL OF YOU STILL HOOK INTO COAL power..when the sun dont shine

put that into that dark place
you keep your mind in

get off the system
go exclusivly solar..*

or your in it..
for the buy back
tarrif slush fund

getting double for the day input
and discount at night..*off the grid

stand on principle
if its feasable financially

*[and you say it is]
stop govt picking winners..and let 'the market decide'

no more gifts
to scamers and decievers

no more wasted govt funded adverts
we are not decieved

so save your paid adverts

The batteries for home use cost no more than a car battery, Deep cycle marine batteries $ 150 ea. and 10 year service. I am 90% solar, a couple more batteries and 100% +. Solar panels are half price now, For $600 ea you can get a 200 watt panel. Mad not to. Solar heating and solar cooling, why not. Power companies have opened large can of worms now, so may as well take advantage of it.

The climate skeptics, are not only skeptical, but they deny any change as important. NASA is full of science and they have the equipment and finance to make scientific revelations.
Sea level is rising at 3.27mm / yr
co2 concentrations highest in 650,000 yrs
co2 = 391 parts / million
.9c rise in sea water temp since 1880.
global temp 2,000 --2,009 warmest on record.
Greenland ice loss doubled between 1966 -- 2005 100 billion tons / yr
Arctic ice decrease 11.5 % / decade. All items are measurable.
Sea water is brine, which allows colder freezing temperatures
The sea water surrounding the arctic, or beneath the arctic is fluid and with an increase of .9 c that is enough for increased ice melt, and this increase in temp is increasing the momentum of ice melt.
Carbon particles in the atmosphere are effecting weather patterns, along with a higher sea temperature. Nature has been compromised,
European countries are bankrupt, and can not expect much momentum from them for the time.

It is incredible that when the opportunity suites the structure of conversation goes from Carbon to Co2. Carbon is caused from fossil fuels, it's black and a carsonagenic, which is visible and measurable. Co2 is invisible and sustains life in measured doses. Carbon is blamed for the rise in sea temps; Co2 is at it's highest level for 650,000 yrs.
Nasa measured this by drilling deep into ice shelf and measuring the carbon age and quantity. Carbon is a corse of potassium in broken down form. Co2 has a use as a refrigerant and dry ice. Both components have a use, but not in the wild.

Coal and oil, get rid of them. Gas is a better option than coal. When its gone all the better. Carbon soot is destroying the world slowly., Being a carsnogine, on its own is enough to get rid of it. They tell you not to eat burnt toast, what about breathing the stuff. Could be why there is so much cancer in the world. Get rid of it.

Toni is non committal again, gay union been bandied around, must be terrible having to do what some fictitious god says. Julia is all cheers and applauds today, must be an election in a couple of years or so.
Hope there is no hung parliament again, makes the going tough.
The greens will feature again, independents want hunting down.
Toni won't be there, he has got too many pledges in blood. Lets put a republic referendum up, do we or do we not want a republic. Yes or no.

Climategate has landed. died a slow death didn't it. still waiting for something to come up on the news. Ocean acidification Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, the acidity of surface ocean waters has increased by about 30% This increase is the result of human emitting more co2 into the atmosphere and hence more being absorbed into the oceans. The amount of co2 absorbed by the upper layer of the oceans is increasing by about 2 billion tons per year. NASA

Back-burns out of control in the West, savaging homes. Is the situation now that we can not have controlled burns any more. If controlled fires get out of hand, maybe camping in the bush needs to be banned. The situation is just too dangerous. Two teen agers 13 and 15 charged with lighting a fire that destroyed 60 homes and killed one person, have been deemed unfit to be blamed for the fires by the DPP. Apart from blaming each other for lighting the fire, they have IQ's in the low range. I say if they are that stupid they should not be let loose in society. If their whereabouts were known they would be lynched.

A popular word about climate change is ALARMIST, I don't know what there is to be alarmed about. The worst part we have to be alarmed about at the moment is the changing pattern of weather. More severe storms, floods, fires, cyclones, wind, and what ever else nature can muster. That is the alarm now. As time progresses like a few years, because the co2 is getting more dense, the climate will behave accordingly. NASA blames the co2 levels for heating sea water by .9c which is causing the oceans to give up its carbon stores adding to the co2 levels in the atmosphere. The co2 levels have increased rapidly in the past decade.

Key indicators of climate change. Carbon dioxide concentration, Global surface temperature, Arctic sea ice, Land ice, Sea level. All indicators are shifting most noticeable in the last decade. Accelerated sea level rise will displace some 200 million people by 2025. NASA

Labor is to allow a vote on gay union, you won't get Toni to vote on that, it's out of his religious allowance. How would AU stack up with a PM that is restricted to religious boundaries. SM is the shadow of Toni,dead set curtain about Nauru working with-out alteration to law, shows the depth of pig headedness in the liberal camp. US marines in the top end, will not make AU a target, Pine Gap has been there for years, and no one worries about that, and Exmouth. They will keep the local girls in employment. Black or white their not fussy.

note re meet the press/reported

the eu cost of carbon now is $6 a ton
and we got shafted with 23..PLUS indexed at inflation every year

can we buy it to pay our bills
or will our power/bills charge us $23...[or the market rate...[$6]

IS that the price of carbon or the price of RECS. You have to bye recs to be able to put carbon into the atmosphere. If the price of recs is $6 that means you will have to bye 4 RECS to be able to emitt 1 ton of carbon. RECS are a form of share and just as volatile. New RECS can only be made when someone puts solar on their roof, or a company sets up a renewable energy farm. And if they want to sell their RECS they get market price. When my solar was done in 2008 i got $ 800 for my RECS which i sold to the installer. The installer can hold or sell.

579 i have no idea
im presuming if meet the press knows of these recs thingies
they would have called them rex..nor carbon prices

anyhow been thinking..about getting in on the solar scam
and just wondering about any extra power i input

is that paid out as cash or cheque..
or just accumulatibng 'credit'
on the power account

see origen has a deal pay 150
then some monthly repayment

so im wondering if its all on the one account
that balances debt v credit...

cause im flat out using 60 bucks..worth of power
if i add in...at the input rate..from solar

any extra power
beyond that i used
gets credit at =/-40 cents a killo what? right?

is that as credit...or cash/cheque
can it [if any]..be offset against the origen bill...

[or is it via two sepperate accounts..one with useless credit on it
and the other holding me to repay with new money..plus a deposit to seal the deal]

in short its a scam
but can i get cash or only credit
for the extra solar

i know people are advertising
the special rate stays till 2012..[to get in now to clean up on the scam]

then that other issue you raised re the rex
did you get any value for the rex

or did the installers scoop that off the top
after getting the free govt cash..[from all levels of govt]

see the issue is just frought with fraud and trickery
i naturally expoect that those who lie down with the dogs will have fleas

plus i bought every type of solar light [garden]
none has ever lasted longer than a year

thus i dont trust these 'deals'
i regard bribery as criminal

and as for govt [picking winners
or paying capitalists...special input tarrifs..
well thats some neat scam...

the poor subsidising the rich..
via inflated power prices
too clever by half

then there is stuff like this

quote....""The terrible secret: the sun's been cooling since 1979
Now it's poised to cool much faster as it approaches the Maunder Minimum.

According to NASA, the sun will cool dramatically starting after 2013. Then for the next 30 to 50 years it will wallow in the Maunder Minimum as the northern latitudes grow colder.[/color]

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1452/028/NL/Shocked_Scientists_Ask:_Is_The_Sun_Is_Dying.html?currentSplittedPage=0

[b]Then the absolute flip side-[/b]

U.N. discusses plans to reflect the sun to cool the Earth

A group of scientists, philosophers and legal scholars are looking into radical geoengineering plans to artificially cool the Earth in a bid to reverse global warming.

Within a few years, global temperatures
could return to levels of 250 years ago, before the industrial revolution began dumping carbon dioxide into the air, trapping heat and causing temperatures to rise

http://www.prisonplanet.com/u-n-discusses-plans-to-reflect-the-sun-to-cool-the-earth.html

It is best to get a quote before you sign up for solar. If your meter box is old or not big enough and you do not have a smart meter it could cost extra. There is a bit of extra gear put in your meter box. If you do not have a smart meter you do not get the credit The old meters go backwards when you are putting power into the grid, and they do not know how much you have put out. The smart meters keep a record of electricity imported, and electricity exported, and off peak power used. Smart meters will eventually be remotely read and adjusted from an office some-where. They can be remotely disconnected and connected.
The RECS are calculated with how much solar you bye, and the value of the recs do come off the installation cost. Each REC has a $ value. If the installer does not want the recs, you can keep them until they are worth $1000 each, or sell them at the market price now.
Your power credit, can be paid in cash + GST or Deducted from your bill + GST. This depends on your supplier. When you are on solar you sign a Co Generators certificate, so they know that you are on solar and somebody doesn't get hurt when they think they have turned the power off.
We had 5 months touring this year, and come home to a wallop of power in credit waiting to be used.

Our unemployment figures are within reason, when there is an upturn the first thing missing will be skilled trades, Where are the eligible people to fit the bill. They at uni doing something that will not do a thing for them. The top prize is an arts degree. By this time all that is left for them is a role in public service. We will again be importing tradespersons to fill the gaps. There is a growing amount of middle class snobs around us, that must use private schools and then uni of course. While this lot accept middle class public funds, and practice their snobbery, we run short of honest workers.

you lost me when you went over to smart meters
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=12061

that is the only way
to get cash back right?

ie sell your soul...pay a vairiable rate
that can be set remotly

specificly by your own usage preferances
so one moment its charging 7 cents
the next its charging whatever the heck rate it choses

knew there would be a catch

plus i note the patent
of spray on solar cells

http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=12079

the next genweration of solar
will be one twenteth the current cost

so why has govt wasted it all on the old
for the same cost tomorrow..it could convert the world to solar
not just few big users wanting a greatr imput tarrif cash cow for 20 years

to the cost of us mugs
paying ever increasing rates
[plus the elites feedin [cash back..rates]

is it classed as income?
or subject to capital gains?

its taxed ?
at what rate?

Smart meters going all around the world, i haven't heard of any trouble. One day there will not be any more meter readers, so then you will probably be charged to read your meter. I was told a smart meter was going to cost $300, there was no charge for my smart meter. It is the only way you can get credit for exported power. Smart meters will be read in half hour blocks, and rounded up or down to get the readings.
Why they change your meter remotely is not all areas have peak power at the same time. So they have to make the costs as cheaply as possible for the consumer. Off peak power is 10 cents / kwh here. Old clock meters can be worn and not show the right charges, so a new meter is a good idea. The smart meters are digital. The installers can quote on all modifications if needed to your meter boxes. Then it is inspected by the power supplier. Do not believe rumors.

The temperature prediction for christmas day here is 46c. Hope we get a bit of sunshine with that. The ozone hole is at an all time big, and right over Au. People get around without hats because it is not fashionable, should get over that and put a hat on ya noggen. Even poms wear hats at 18c .

The dorset end of England is having dry and humid weather. Screaming for rain they is. Now that has got to be something novel. Probably climate change affecting the weather. Train fares and plane fares have risen dramatically. They have types of fish in the coastal area never before seen, didn't hear about any sharks or crocs.

Severe storm in the west, all natural i suppose. Power down air port closed. Got bigger as the day went on.

Solar batteries for houses on the grid, are maintenance free and 10 yr life. You permanently connect the batteries to solar and electric charger. The old batteries for off grid were 2 volt batteries and needed regular maintenance mainly for water top up. The water boiled off because of irregular charging, and too quickly charged.

The speed of light was said to be the ultimate. Perpetual motion will be the next to fall. You can-not get out more than you put in, You can actually. Self powered motors, friction generators,
All of this alt energy, has been the ideal hobby for the individual household. Solar powered heater, by running hot water through coils, backed by a fan. This has opened a whole new tin of spaghetti.

The more you take notice of the supposed highly educated fraternity, the worse light they shed. They come out of university , the highest education in the land , and yet have got no idea of general knowledge.
It is like blaming scientists for not being able to give a straight answer on climate change. NASA has all the measuring instruments, and global surveillance machines., and can only gives probabilities of the circumstances if left unchecked. It is best to er on the side of caution, as the alternative can become non reversible.

There is stand by power savers being handed out. You can have 4 max; and all it costs is to sign the carbon RECS for them.[ in vic]

Climate discussion going around in circles. C02 verse Carbon. Oil and coal. Is Carbon a carsnogene, it is on toast. I have never seen so much time wasted on the same subject. NASA says the climate certainly is changing, but they cannot say for how long. No one can. C02 in the atmosphere has never been so high. The sea is releasing co2 with the warming of one degree celsius. The cycle may not be able to be stopped.

There is confusion about c02 and carbon, some are stating c02 as the only ingredient in the climate change debate. We breath out we expel c02 You can not burn fossil fuel without creating co2 and carbon. The tax is for carbon emmittions, the co2 gets off, no charge. That is why i ask is carbon a cancer causing agent. The cases of cancer have continued to rise, along with pollution