qanda, my agenda is to protect our way of life and, having been in business most of my working life, I can tell you that any cost to business going in, will be greatly increased going out, and that's my problem with this tax.

Why not simply tax the user and save all that mark up along the way.

After all, it is we who use the power that the emissions were generated in the process.

I can also tell you that small to medium business, our largest employers, are on their knees an, any further imposition may well spell the end for many. Then what!

What ever happened to user pays in this whole carbon debate.

Besides, business is already addressing polution without being taxed, so whybthe tax?

One of the most stupid facile arguments that Labor is putting forward is that they are only taxing the top 500 polluters.

As most of these polluters are in the energy supply business this tax is simply passed on to the tax payers. The reality is that the tax only has 500 points of collection and these companies are effectively subordinated into being tax collectors.

Another option would be to place a levy on energy, that way, the user of that energy pays the levy/tax and, apart from the costs associated with collecting and forwarding the tax, energy suppliers are not out of pocket.

This would force many to save energy and, the genuine needy could be subsidized.

Forcing companies to fund the tax is where the problem lies as it causes cash flow issues and, like any expense, a margin must be applied to get their money back.

It is simply another tax grab from a wasteful, cash strapped, incompitent government.

And it will hurt.

We told them the IR laws would hurt, they laughed. We told them copenhargen would be a waste of time and money, they laughed.

With a bit of luck they will have a trigger fo a DD election, couriousy of the malaysion scandal, I bet they are not game to go there.

You really are a naive little fellow, aren't you qanda?

I can't imagine how anyone could actually recommend we go & read lies.

We know those papers have been prepared by this government, to try to sell their great big tax. How you could expect any thinking person to waste their time on the type of drivel that we will find.

If they were even good liars, it might be entertaining looking at how they have twisted the facts. However it is not even good enough for that.

It is hard to know if they have given up trying to produce anything even vaguely convincing, knowing the bull they have to start with, or if they are merely going through the motions, so the useful idiots have something to wave about. What ever, you're welcome to it.

Happy waving.

It think that what is clear about this debate is that Abbott and equally other members of the Opposition front bench have managed to capture the attention of the australian voter with their brand of "panic button politics". No you cant do that because the wheels will fall off. No you cant do this because the sky will fall. No "you cant do that because everyone already knows that the earth is flat" , kind of stuff.

This seems to have rallied the climate skeptics, fringe right wingers, vested interests, closet racists, polluters etc all into a single gaggle of complainants. This media assisted campaign has been most successful in (as I say) capturing the attention of the voter, whilst focussing all the blame/negative attention on the Gov't. Particularly the PM.

The Gov't by it's own definition (being not just a PM), but a functioning Minority Govt, has managed to see a large part, (or more accurately) nearly all of it's agenda so far, pass through both houses of Parliament, culminating in the soon to be legislation Carbon Tax.

Abbott's solution is to threaten the Gov't , the business community, the general public etc with reversal of the decisions made by the both houses of Government. And threatened to reverse (clearly not just an arbitrary decision by a PM at all) but a set of decisions made by the Gov't.

Does the Opposition leader seek to rule in exile from the opposition benches ?!.

Claiming to be in front in the opinions polls and therefore logically should be in Gov't, is a furphy because every Gov't is entitled to run the its course or term and unless Abbott can find the numbers, no sausage. And one place he will ever have the the numbers is with the people who actually know him, his colleagues some of whom in his own party would shudder at the thought of an Abbott led Gov't.

Thinker2,

Juliar Gillard effectively provided the coalition with the ammunition it needs by promising solemnly not to impose a carbon tax and then doing so.

The facts that this is the largest carbon tax in the world, combined with modelling that is deliberately distorted (assuming that most other countries will have a carbon tax) indicates not that labor's figures with respect to damage to industry are optimistic at best, and that labor is not prepared to tell the voters the truth.

Australian voters are prepared to make sacrifices if the cause is worthwhile, and those asking are completely honest. The big lie combined with other small lies leaves Labor with no credibility, and the admission that the tax was introduced to secure the alliance with the greens, makes it clearly in the interest of Labor.