I'll kick it off, just from memory, and there have been that many that some will be missed.

Home insulation acheme
BER schools project (builders early retirement)
grocery watch
petrol watch
cash for clunkers
green loans scheme
Live cattle exports
Desalination plants, at least 3 (billions spent, now not needed)
60c kw for home solar power, NSW

These are the ones that spring to mind

Banjo

Things that spring to mind are:

1. Rudd’s big increase to immigration as soon as he won power, which was done with no hint in the election campaign and no public consultation, on top of Howard’s already record high intake, at a time when we desperately needed to start transitioning from a rapid-continuous-growth paradigm to a sustainability-oriented paradigm with a stable population.

2. Rudd’s enormous economic stimulus expenditure, which drained the formerly very healthy coffers. Far far too much money was pilfered away.

3. Rudd’s extraordinary watering down of border-protection laws, with the blitheringly obvious outcome of recommencing onshore asylum seeking and all the conflict, deaths, misery and expense that goes with.

4. Rudd’s absurd big Australia rhetoric.

5. Gillard’s lack of action following her comments that she is not in favour of a big Australia. She had the perfect opportunity to announce progressive reductions to immigration as part of the carbon tax strategy, as it is absurd to have incentives to reduce carbon emissions in this country while at the same time facilitating an ongoing rapid increase in the number of carbon polluters.

6. Gillard’s lack of action to stop the boats, especially given that Howard’s method worked and would be easy reimplement, except that it was a Liberal policy and therefore Labor couldn’t possibly do it!

7. Gillard's unbelievable suspension of live cattle exports to Indonesia, with the enormous upheaval for Australian graziers and associated workers caught up in it.

Thanks Ludwig, I'll add them

LABORS RECENT STUFF UPS.

Grossly increased Immigration
Invitation for 'illegal' boat entries
Did away with Nauru and TPVs
Home insulation acheme
BER schools project (builders early retirement)
grocery watch
petrol watch
Cash givaway ($900 I think)
cash for clunkers
green loans scheme
Live cattle exports
Desalination plants, at least 3 (billions spent, now not needed)
60c kw for home solar power, NSW

What else has been missed, something about solsr hot water services?

See in todays media, the operators of the Sydney desal plant want $600,000 A DAY! to keep it in mothballs. Unbelievable.

Not to mention winning an election, I mean who do these people think they are?

Dear Banjo,

Here's another list that may be of interest:

1) Abolished WorkChoices
2) Increased hospital funding by 50%
3) Increased the age pension by more than $100 for singles
and $76 for couples
4) When we were all threatened by the Global Financial Crisis
Labor did what they had to do and Australia came through
stronger than most countries
5) They're strengthening the economy and getting the budget
back to surplus by 2013 - 3 years earlier than expected
6) They developed a single national school curriculum with a
focus on the basics
7)They investing in new cancer research and treatment centres
8) Funding over 1,000 new nurse training pplaces every year
and now we'll have an additional 1,300 GP's qualified or in
training by 2013
9) Currently delivering Trade TRaining Centers for 732 schools
and over the next 3 years wll have another 520 schools have
access to one
10) DEspite setbacks they're tackling climate change with record\
investment in renewables like solar.
11) They have cut taxes in the last 3 budgets
12) Record investment in infrastructure like highways, rail,
and ports
13) They're building a National Broadband Network
14) They're creating 130,000 new education and training places,
and 50,000 university places

There's more, but this will do for now. I wouldn't want to embarrass
you.

cont'd ...

Dear Banjo,

I forgot to add that with every attempt to achieve something positive
some hiccups do occur but eventually the end result is beneficial to the community. On the other hand every time the Liberals are in
government major spending cuts are introduced creating major disruption to services, health and education, and infrastructure that takes years for a new government to fix at great expense to the nation.

If you're so knowledgeable, list the major achievements AND stuff-ups of the Liberal Party and let's compare. It's only fair that equal
value is given to both parties - other wise your thread only depicts the negativity of one side of the argument.

Some more possibilities of stuff ups or outright failures
Copenhagen- failed
Copenhagen special friend - failed
Set top boxes
$250million tax cut for TV networks. (and again perhaps?)
Super clinics
New National Health whatever thingy
Plan to guarantee public hospital elective surgery patients private hospital treatment, gone .
National curriculum looking shaky
Just cut 2 national school science education programs
Failed broadband tender, cost 30 million at least and NBN thought bubble as a result.
Quadrilateral Initiative, advised India Japan cancelled via newspapers. Offended India Japan and China anyway.

This one is a good one. Conroy honours us with a now longstanding place with Reporters Without Borders, Internet Countries under Surveillance list.
Great company, 16 of us, includes the likes of Belarus Saudi Venezuela. France just been added. France quite busy, same lame aims as Conroy, plus ran a conference on the internet, the E20, a conference where governments talked of plans to control content of internet. And our chattering classes it seems want to inquire us down the same censored controlled press path .

If Bob Brown and it seems Julia have their way, we can probably make it onto the press freedom watch list as well.

My, this is turning out to be a thread of negative "lists."
OK here's my further contribution:

14) Floating of the Australian dollar
16) Introduction of National Superannuation -
both of which formed the basis of the strength of
Australia's economy today. So will pricing pollution.
17) Introduction of a universal health care system for
all Australians - Medibank by Gough Whitlam, 1 July 1975.

The Fraser Government is the only government in the world
to have dismantled an existing universal health care system.
Medibank closed in 1981.

18) On 1 Feb 1984 - Medicare was established by the Hawke
Government.

More to come folks.

Blimey
You might have to expand on some of your list, but I do recall the Super Medical Clinics and will add to my list, as with the promise to build much needed aboriginal housing in NT

Still seem to recall something about hotwater services, was on TV one night about truckloads being delivered.

LABORS RECENT STUFF UPS.

Grossly increased Immigration
Invitation for 'illegal' boat entries
Did away with Nauru and TPVs
Home insulation acheme
BER schools project (builders early retirement)
grocery watch
petrol watch
Cash givaway ($900 I think)
cash for clunkers
green loans scheme
Live cattle exports
Desalination plants, at least 3 (billions spent, now not needed)
60c kw for home solar power, NSW
Super Medical Clinics
Failure to build promised aboriginal housing in NT

Lexi,
I am no fan of either major party and all the above major blunders and mismanagement occurred in the last few years. Never has there been such an incompedent lot grace the halls of power. The above resulted in billions being wasted and misspent, plus houses being burnt and workers deaths. Oh and some 200 deaths of illegals.

Honestly, they could not run a chook raffle!

How far back do you want to go? We could rake up Cairns and Junie or the Kimlani affair if you wish. 'No child shall live in povety'

I intend to print my list and pin it up handy for the next election, so I do not forget.

Dear Banjo,

We all could go back and finger-point. What would that achieve?
Lists are all very well - but how about listing both positives
as well as the negatives. Or are you only interested in the
negatives of one particular party for this thread? Are you perhaps
interested in taking over Shadow Minister's job on this Forum?

Lexi,
Party politics seems important to you, it is not to me and frankly I do not care which party is in power, what is important is that they do the job reasonably well.

As for Abbott, well I think little of him but give him some points for stopping us having an ETS, that Turnbull was prepared to endorse. To my mind Abbott lacks any charisma and oratory ability and if the Libs had a better leader we would not now have the lot in power now.

Now I decided to list ALL the government stuff ups because they are many and there is danger that i may forget some. I do intend to give them widespread publicity before the next election, as they should pay for their stupidity and incompedence.

You ask about the positives of the present incumbents, well off the top of my head, none immediatly comes to mind. It seems everthing they have done has been ruined by incompedence. Billions have simply been wasted.

If you can think of any major accomplishment they have achieved then by all means make a list.

With things like the NBN, Carbon Tax and its associated green schemes yet to come, there is plenty of scope for many more stuff ups.

Dear Banjo,

You're not interested in "Party politics?" Really? So all you can see
is Liberal achievements and Labor's stuff-ups? Cute!
I'll leave you to it.

There have been some monumental stuff ups by Labor, mostly due to Rudd's pushy insistence to get programs running before ensuring proper oversight and accountability and his own declaration that jobs were more important than safety.

It was open slather on BER and Home Insulation for many dodgy dealers. Part of the problem was with decision making processes too centralised instead of allowing individual schools to make choices on need and no oversight on batt insulation.

However many schools did receive long awaited improvements and buildings, many still using outdated and inadequate portables which had many health and safety issues.

Many of the halls were of course not needed and even in the context of 'stimulus' there was a lot of waste. Surely if you are going to stimulate at least ensure the money goes to good use.

The alternative however is an opposition when in government that does not spend money on infrastructure and lets hospital services run down. It is also an opposition that one minute believes in AGW then the next does not, one day it proposes a Carbon Tax as an option, then when the ALP/Greens propose it, suddenly it is the most evil tax known to man.

I am also disappointed in Labor but what does the Liberal/Coalition stand for? Will we ever know, or will it be more continual mindless attacks on the government at sandpit level that is doing nothing but whipping up hysteria.

Lexi,
I do not think that is fair comment at all, as I have never said or indicated anything like that.

I am critical of Abbott, see last post, and I saw Fraser as a complete failure. I am also critical of the 'children overboard' issue,as there was no need for it. The kids ended up in the water next day anyway after the illegals sank the boat. The maritine dispute was grossly mishandled and Fraser is now just a silly old man who should keep his opinions to himself.

Whatever, you cannot dispute that this current labor government has made some gigantic blunders and failures and i intend to highlight them. They deserve to be embarrased.

Be interesting to see a list of this governments major achievements.

Lexi,
All these great positives you listed are then in actual fact the reason why working Australians are now so unhappy.
If you had any idea of having to produce something of value in order to get paid I'm sure you wouldn't make such statements.

pelican

Spot on and we need to get Rudd out of the trade Ministers job asap

There will be nothing left for Aussies. He has like a child playing Santa tossed money wherever he goes. His office doesn't even bother to answer emails and half the time there is just an answering machine.

The PM also needs to watch her back with her own office staff.

Dear Banjo,

I have no interest in any further discussion with you
or individual. What's the point - you're minds are already made
up and I see no reason to waste either my time or yours.
Enjoy this discussion - you're obviously only interested in
opinions of those who have the wisdom to agree with you.
As I stated previously - I'll leave you gentlemen to it.

Now Lexi if you keep regurgitating the Labor spin some may call you a liar, Juliar, Lexiliar, we could start a trend.

It is a lie to say that the economic stimulus saved the Australian economy. It is spin to suggest that this Labor party are capable economic managers at any level. The latest news to greet the public this very morning is that admin costs will gobble up 20% of the "set top" box program , what a disappointing surprise, I had bet on a 30% rort this time, but the program has hardly started, plenty of time for further failure by this adolescent caucus and incompetent public service.

I am pretty well sure that you do not have a clue as to why the subprime issue came about, so I will teach you Lexi.
In 1977 the Left lobby convinced the Carter administration to enact the “Community Reinvestment Act (CRA)”, which compels banks to make loans to low-income borrowers and disengage from basing their decision on purely economic criteria.

In the first 20 years of the scheme $100 Billion was loaned out. But in the past 15 years various Left neighborhood organizations, as they like to call themselves, such as "ACORN" (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) came about. These organizations have facilitated over $1 Trillion in CRA loans, although no one seems to know the magnitude as the government’s guestimate is closer to $2 Trillion.
Lexi, there were many like Bruce Marks who became quite notorious for pressuring banks to earmark literally billions of dollars to his organization, the "Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America." . He had "won" loans totaling $3.8 billion from Bank of America, First Union Corporation, and the Fleet Financial Group for low income borrowers, and that is just one of the "community group" that WERE operating in Boston. You can bet when mortgage foreclosures reached their historical high in 2009 that the social conscienced likes of Bruce Marx was not out on the street.

TBC

So Lexi the reason behind subprime are twofold, firstly the Lefts push for legislation in 1977 forcing the banks to lend to borrowers that had no chance of servicing that debt ongoing, and once again the Lefts social conscience manifested and organized some 20 years on through “Community Groups” who went out and marketed the “product” to the poor they represent. You can bet when mortgage foreclosures reached their historical high in 2009 that the Lefty likes of Bruce Marx was not out on the street.

Lexi the fact is the major Australian banks were never in trouble and continued to make profits and pay dividends at around their normal levels. Less than 2% of the Australian mortgage market was subprime; we called them “Low Docs” home loans here and because we did not get a spike in our unemployed there were no huge default in our subprime segment. The only commitment by the Australian government was to guarantee the savings, and I might add that had our banks failed the government was on the best deal in 30 years because 30 years ago our national household savings was 6% of GDP; luckily we are just above 1% now, so a relatively cheap guarantees to execute should they have been needed. Our 2006 and 2007 GDP were unchanged except for a slight growth to the exports to China which manifested itself in the 2008 numbers. We have no manufactured exports so we had no slump there, our minerals, agricultural and meat exports did not change, as I said mining grew, but credit got real tight, and it still is, but that is it.

Lexi you really do not know what you are talking about, what amazes me is that so many Australians have morphed into imbeciles as exampled by the moronic regurgitation of Labor lies to the ears of imbeciles who automatically regurgitate it again simply because they will not do their own research. If you can read and you are smart enough to wash yourself every day you can find factual truth, not someone else’s spin.

Dear SOG,

So I've gone from being your "Baltic Jewel," to Lexiliar?
Sorry, but that's funny.
You actually lost me at "regurgitating." That's not writing
by the way - that's just typing. And it saddens me that you
accuse me of all sorts of things (I've seen the film "Inside
Job," by the way - have you?). And as a librarian - I do
my research. It may not agree with yours - but you need to access
more than the limited number you're looking at obviously.
Anyway - be happy. I have no wish or inclination to argue with you.
When you're right, you're right! And, I know I am! So a great big
raspberry to you.

Dear Lexi

How are you? I read most of your other thread. Well done its a interesting read that for sure.
Take care Lexi.

sonofgloin,

A question pls.

Despite all of that- the past are you suggesting Tony Abbott has the skills Peter Costello and Howard had.? Even when they were in power the inhouse joke was- Oh Tonys ok at = this and that but bloody hopeless with anything to do with budget. Also remembering this- they sold us out and left us with no industry.
Of course for me the morals of a country go past the almighty $
but thats as good a place to start as any given it is what most people care about. So I ask you the same I did of Shadow Minister leaving Tony & Julie out of it- Your policys pls from 1 to ten.
You are free to read mine on the other thread.
We can then compare who has the best policys and take it from there.

At least it will make life a bit more interesting rather than us all sniping at each other and it might even be fun.
Come on everybody 3 policys each at least pls pls.

cheers all

Kerryanne,
Policies or no policies, I'm looking at how our daily lives are going. Let's start wit PC, no discipline, 360 degree incompetence in the Public Service, an utterly incompetent Education system, Law is non-existent, Insurance companies can do as they please, Australia is being muslimised due to policies, Australia is going broke due to policies etc etc. The point is that despite all these great policies everything is going downhill. Can you mention any policies which could counter my list ? Can you, without academic speculation state anything at all that is presently positive in Australia ?

Individual:"If you had any idea of having to produce something of value in order to get paid I'm sure you wouldn't make such statements."

And that's it in a nutshell, isn't it? People who make their living on the public purse inevitably want politicians who will give them more for doing the same thing. It's someone else's job to bring the money in in the first place. Howard bought them off for years and kept himself in power, even if they eventually turned on him because Rudd was offering a shiny new bunch of handouts.

It remains to be seen how long Brown and his bunch of shiny-bums can keep the gravy-train going before the money runs out. I give it about 12 months.

More for the list:
1) “CHARTERED flights to move asylum seekers out of the overcrowded Christmas Island detention centre and on to the mainland have cost taxpayers more than $3 million over three months”
2) “Contrary to initial indications by the Immigration Minister, Chris Bowen, a source confirmed that the asylum seekers who had arrived after the deal was first announced would not be sent to Malaysia.”

http://www.smh.com.au/national/asylum-flights-cost-a-million-every-month-20110716-1hj0d.html

SPQR,
I noted that article this morning. If my memory serves me right, the government originally promised to 'stop the boats' and that there would not be detention centres opened on the mainland. That is the reason for the costly flights.

Somebody must recall the scheme about the Hot water units, I can't, but they were going to motels, caravan parks and sports clubs.

LABORS RECENT STUFF UPS.

Grossly increased Immigration
Invitation for 'illegal' boat entries
Did away with Nauru and TPVs (failure to stop the boats)(200 die)
Detention centres opened on mainland. (promised not to do so)
Home insulation acheme (homes burnt and workers died)
BER schools project (builders early retirement)
grocery watch
petrol watch
Cash givaway ($900 I think)
cash for clunkers
green loans scheme
Live cattle exports
Desalination plants, at least 3 (billions spent, now not needed)
60c kw for home solar power, NSW
Super Medical Clinics
Failure to build promised aboriginal housing in NT

To comrade Lexi my aspiring Baltic Bolshevik, from your Millers Point Menshevik:

Inside Job certainly shows that industry regulation is akin to giving pedophiles the keys to the orphanage, but what that has to do with my response to you in regard to Australia's exposure to the GFC I am unsure.

You said the GFC effected Australia to the extent that a bailout from our Commonwealth government kept us from going under, I said that statement was an ongoing lie spread by Labor to take the citizens eye from the waste and rorts that had seen every single stimulus project underperform dramatically in terms of value for money and the number of projects that after completion were not deemed to be fit for purpose with remedial work required.

I qualified why Australia was not greatly affected by the GFC.
You responded with this:
"Anyway - be happy. I have no wish or inclination to argue with you.
When you're right, you're right! And, I know I am! So a great big
raspberry to you".

Hopefully this forum is about learning as well as espousing and I thought that there was a good chance that you would comprehend what I had proffered and understood that in the terms of initial impact and ongoing ramifications that Australia was not impacted by the GFC. But your response just justifies the regurgitating the rhetoric of others that I suggested you are prone to.

Our core beliefs are not a million miles apart, but those such as yourself and Belly who adopt a “my party right or wrong” and lie to defend a point do all socialistic souls a disservice. As a well read Librarian I expect you understand the reason for the old Soviet terms Bolshevik and Menshevik, just in case I will explain in simple terms. It is important in understanding why the Labor party no longer listens to its branches uninformed souls such as yourself say things beyond simple credibility.
TBC

If you are going to play socialist you have to know something about it, I hope this helps:
“The difference between the philosophies of the two emerging Socialist factions: Lenin argued for a small party of professional revolutionaries with a large fringe of non-party sympathizers and supporters, whereas Martov believed it was better to have a large party of activists with broad representation”. Both factions carried the philosophy of Marx, but one wanted to run it exclusively via their little corium and the other wanted the people more broadly represented". The Bolsheviks won and the Russians got a totalitarian socialist state.

Rudd and Gillard are Fabians and their organization is the Western intellectual dregs of the Bolshevik mentality. Before the Labor party was hijacked by university educated socialists there was no Fabian agenda, the leaders of that Labor party had their eye on Australia, not a post in the UN . Within months of the Rudd government taking office there was discontent from the back benchers and all the ministers that were removed from policy making because only the gang of four had input. In fact that is one of the critically leaked snippets they used to discredit Rudd and hail the ex gang of four, but now more democratic Gillard to the post, who now now heads a gang of two I might add.
Lexi whatever you are, socialist, communist, do gooder, understand who it is you serve rather than regurgitating the party rhetoric without qualification. If your just here for a chat, that’s fine, but do not tell me I am devoid of a reality without qualifying why.

>>I remember when librarians were bookish little women, nobody looked at them and they never looked up from their books<< Seinfeld…library cop.lol

Dear SOG,

My parents were Displaced Persons who came to Australia as refugees after World War II. For your information, they lost not only family, and friends but also their country as a result of the Soviet occupation.
We had family members who died in Soviet Gulags, others were tortured mutilated, and put to death by the Red Army and the Soviet Secret Police. . Therefore your name calling and labelling me simply because I don't agree with your point of view I find offensive beyond belief and I therefore refuse to have any further discussions with a person of your calibre. You may not be a heavy-handed creep, but you certainly behave like one on this forum.

Kerryanne:
>> sonofgloin, A question pls.
Despite all of that- the past are you suggesting Tony Abbott has the skills Peter Costello and Howard had.? Even when they were in power the inhouse joke was- Oh Tonys ok at = this and that but bloody hopeless with anything to do with budget. Also remembering this- they sold us out and left us with no industry.<<

Kerryanne, it is fruitless setting up a cheap manufacturing plant in Asia if the country you import to have a tariff that ensures the market price will reflect the price of locally produced products. How you overcome that is by a global free trade agreement. The first comprehensive one was the Lima Agreement signed by Australia in 1973 and passed into Australian law unanimously by both the residing Liberals and the Labor opposition in 1973. From this point on we actively worked to close down our self sufficiency by dropping nearly all trade protection, it took thirty years, but we make bugger all now, as planned.. The motive as delivered via the UN Development Organization, the IMF and the World Bank was to be the sharing of global wealth, it did not happen, subsistence farmers were now subsistence factory fodder, the west got poorer, the east got smoggier, and more wealth has moved to the 10% that hold 80% of the globes wealth.

You see Kerryanne the problem is that both sides of politics have signed our rights to be a sovereign nation away, neither side serves the people they serve those who own the global economy. I have no party allegiance, none of them represent my aspirations for a self sufficient free Australia where all expressions of speech are tolerated and a first past the post electoral system is in place.

Right now Gillard’s Labor party is my target, Abbott is ineffective, and his role is just to be there, Turnbull would fiddle while we burned, so I have no positive things to say about the liberals

Lexi my forebears came to this country with shackles on their legs for their political and religious beliefs, they did not have the Red Cross to help them through the journey, and when they got here there was nothing.....what has that statement or yours got to do with you qualifying the impact of the GFC on Australia, nothing. As I said I am happy to chat if you have no facts.

SOG,

That ship has sailed. Kindly go back and re-read your posts
to me and the names that you called me and what you said to me.
I merely attempted to
explain to you why I found it offensive. Anyway, I have
no further wish to ever interact with you again. Ever.
I would appreciate your directing your future comments to
someone else. I have no further interest in anything you may wish
to say.

Of course you do not want to further answer my posts Lexi, simply put the reason is because you are not capable of qualifying what you espouse, so you play the pathetic "I'm offended" card. Shattered you did I? I'm glad your parents were made of stronger stuff.

Dear SOG,

Nah. I'm over it.
And besides, I can't stay mad at you.
You'fe far too knowledgeable. ;-)

Son of a

Leave her alone she much too nice- a sorry i didnt mean to bring back bad memories might have been nicer- dont you think.

Lexi
I left those hugs back on the other thread for you but now seems like a really good time. Oh and there is a Friday night lets get the boys bash happening if your up for it with a few bundies too.:)

Ludwig

I agree with you on Rudd the boats, immigration, camping, fishing & many of your comments - but not this one -

*7. Gillard's unbelievable suspension of live cattle exports to Indonesia, with the enormous upheaval for Australian graziers and associated workers caught up in it.*

Ludwig,

The liberals suspended live exports on several occassions and for much longer.

Julia Gillard stopped it for 4 weeks to save the industry while they worked on getting some"" but not enough animal welfare standards
in place. She knew if they didnt do something the trade would be lost forever because the public demand was huge.
Who could blame the public after seeing footage on 4 corners.

Also Ludwig AU was informed in March 2010 by the Minister of trade for Indonesia they intend to stop importing live by 2014.

So we need to prepare for that. There is another market to replace it which involves many more thousand jobs being created than we would lose.

Apart from that how can you criticize anybody from insisting some type of humane treatment is put in place for Australian Animals.

The graziers have know for years half these cattle are flocked to death with chains and they do not care. Just like they have not cared for years as real farmers and plant owners have committed suicide because of how this trade has effected their business.

I dont agree with the PM on this issue either however nobody other than YOU has argued something had to be done.

Shame on you.

"THE empress has strutted forth in her new clothes, and the people have hissed and booed. Not only do the people think Julia Gillard's new green packaging is threadbare, it turns out they like the empress even less than the clothing."

I guess the carbon tax is about to be added to the list of Labor stuff ups and back flips, and Juliar to the scrap heap of history.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/its-the-deal-she-cant-seal-20110717-1hkaj.html

I predict that the closure of Victoria's Hazelwood power station will be another stuff up.

Hazelwood supplies 25% of Victorias power, so what happens in summer when there is peak load.

I am suggesting to my relos there that they now buy a generator, at least good enough to run the fridge and freezer.

This is what happens when ideology is put before practicality.

9) Currently delivering Trade TRaining Centers for 732 schools
and over the next 3 years wll have another 520 schools have
access to one

duplicating TAFE .. of course ... and wasting money .. yet again

pelican

Spot on and we need to get Rudd out of the trade Ministers job asap

well .. good news ! Rudd is NOT our Trade Minister .. he's Foreign Affairs

how about this positive disneyland utopic list
1. Make all educational and medical expenses tax deductable [ like in the 60's ]
2.Tax people on how FAST they earn money, not on what they make
3.Solve the boat people problem like other countries ie: Boat dock to bus to airport to OUT! in 30 minutes before the bleeding hearts even know they are here.
4. Cease ALL funding to private schools
5.Make it an offence to hold religeous ideology instruction in public schools
Have another list somewhere, I get back to you all later

Sonofgloin
You are wrong when you state the banks were in no trouble during the GFC and it is deplorable the state of mainstream journalism not to have picked it up. The NAB and Westpac borrowed close to $20 billion from the American Fed to resolve their liquidity problems but have not informed the public, customers, actual or potential shareholders or the government (tho I believe the latter knew and are just as complicit). Think of the ramifications of this. Major - but nothing done! I don't have the link but google the Fed and I am sure you will find the info. Otherwise like what you write.

Pepper
No 2 is non sensical - think of the logistics. Also I have good weeks then bad weeks so how am I to plan for future growth, employment etc.

No 4 - bad, bad, bad!! I had the opportunity to send my children to either public or private. It cost me heaps more to send them to a private school but the outcome we all believe is far better than the alternative. I can see where you are coming from but if you do that then all of a sudden there will be an increase in total fees which will the cause an exodus of huge proportions back to the public system. It will not cope. Believe me there are good reasons to keep the private system going and is NOT the boogeyman you may want to believe it is.

SM,

The only weapon against bad ideas -
is better ideas.
Unfortunately the Opposition doesn't
seem to have any. Therefore I wouldn't
write the PM off just yet. Voters will
soon realize that this is Tony Abbott's
last grasp for power but that he's got nothing
to offer but slogans and vacuous performances.

<< Shame on you >>

Shame on who, Kerryanne?

You seem to be addressing me in your whole post. But you lost me at the end there.

Ludwig

That was my point indeed.Nobody in their right mind would complain about taking 4 weeks to put at least some guidelines in place after what we saw on 4 corners & like i said the libs have stopped it twice for much longer periods. It is beyond any reasonable person to support such cruelty. It is beyond comprehension that you would not give 4 weeks to try to stop them being flogged to death by chains and worse.

If you thought you would show alp up for that would you like to know how long for ad how many times-countries the libs banned it.

Mind you it should be banned full stop.

So pls whatever you do dont message me because in all honesty after that comment i would give you anymore my time.

KA,

"Nobody in their right mind would complain about taking 4 weeks to put at least some guidelines in place" BEFORE doing something rash like stopping the entire process.

I have heard that some of the footage on 4 corners was not recent and was added for effect.

This stoppage was done based on the media / focus groups, and not a reasoned response. This is why the ALP name is mud.

Hi Lexi,
Responding to your post on Friday 15th, well said, I couldn't have put it better....as for the poster who "doesn't give a damn about party politics", if he doesn't care, why is he insulting the people who do give a damn?
Keep posting lexi, the others are just posting verbal diarrhoea.
I am not a dyed in the wool Party Follower, I just vote for the party which is good for my circumstances,
Cheers,
NSB

Unfortunately it is Labor in power in Parliament, and looking at the results of the other party which has been in power over the last forty years, I would like to see the lot of parties banned and a good one that has the wellfare of Australia at heart. The reciprocal imports of clothing, groceries, tools etc, from our excessive mining exports have, up to date, destroyed our own manufacturing industries and only providing foodstuffs that we have to eye with suspicion, and live in hope that our future politicians will have enough intelligence, integrity and allegiance to our own country - which happens to be Australia.
Mervyn Jacobi
13 Marlborough St
Sherwood. 4075
0733793418

Banjo,
If you don't care about Party Politics, why do you become passionate about their perceived stuff-ups?
NSB

Dear NSB,

Thank You. My family's voted Liberal all of their lives.
I did as well - until I came back from having lived overseas
and saw what was happening under Howard. Also, living in
Victoria the Kennett years were a disaster. I now vote for
policies - that I consider are the best for me and my family.
And as a result I've been called all sorts of names by a few.
As Morganzola said in one of his posts - he's got an "ignore list,"
I think that's probably a good strategy for the future. Saves a
lot of pointless arguments.

Well Kerryanne, out of all the respondents I’ve exchanged comments with on this forum you come out on the bottom lady.

You’ve gone out of your way to engender a bad relationship with a fellow poster with whom you should have no problem…. not at least until you have confirmed the nature of the apparent disagreement.

For goodness sake, you say that you agree with me on everything I mentioned earlier except for one thing. And you’ve got that one thing wrong!

This puts you at the opposite end of the spectrum to Lexi.

So you are apparently accusing me of having no regard for animal welfare. What a stupid conclusion to jump to.

Of COURSE strong action needed to be taken to address the issues initiated on 4 Corners. But to just close down the industry completely, with out any warning and for an unknown period, had to be one of the stupidest political moves I’ve ever seen.

How the hell could you possibly think that was appropriate?

We are lucky that Indonesia didn’t keep it that way and source all their imported cattle from elsewhere. And we’re lucky they didn’t take punitive action over other imports and bilateral arrangements. It was a very risky thing for Gillard to do.

You rabble on about the hiatus only being four weeks. Well obviously no one knew that it would only be that long until it happened! It was originally a six month suspension, wasn’t it? And four weeks was well and truly long enough to cause a lot of graziers and other people in the industry a lot of stress. Shame on you for apparently thinking that this was acceptable.

As for live exports, I wish they’d never started and I’d prefer to see them phased out. But if we can make sure that the proper humane processing procedures are in place, with confidence that they’ll be adhered to, then I’m not too worried about the trade continuing.

Noisy,
Where are those insults you claim I have made to others?

The reason I decided to list the Stuff-ups is because they have been so obvious and so many. I am concerned some may be forgotten by the time the next election comes around. It is obvious that this is the most incompedent government we have had in my living memory and I fully intend to do what I can to bring it to the publics attention.

Lexi mentioned bad ideas. At least she conceeded that much. Not only were they stupid ideas but they were completely mismanaged as well, making the cost, to us, excessive.

I have another to add to the list. Hospitals takeover and funding. This was bandied around for ages and never came to fruition. Has to be marked down as another failure. So the list grows.

LABORS RECENT STUFF UPS.

Grossly increased Immigration
Invitation for 'illegal' boat entries
Did away with Nauru and TPVs (failure to stop the boats)(200 die)
Detention centres opened on mainland. (promised not to do so)
Home insulation acheme (homes burnt and workers died)
BER schools project (builders early retirement)
grocery watch
petrol watch
Cash givaway ($900 I think)
cash for clunkers
green loans scheme
Live cattle exports
Desalination plants, at least 3 (billions spent, now not needed)
60c kw for home solar power, NSW
Super Medical Clinics
Failure to build promised aboriginal housing in NT
Hospitals takeover and funding

Banjo,
It annoys me that because one party doesn't satisfy everybody in Oz, it doesn't mean that they are bad, both the Major Parties have stuffed up big time, in one way or another, whilst most people disagree with policies (both real and imagined), they see a policy which will suit their ethos and therefore vote for a Party. I do not agree with a lot of what Labor has to offer, but they offer something for me, at least they are trying to introduce some policy and remember that with the Carbon Tax, rightfully or wrongly they are thus far sailing in uncharted waters.....there should have been a bipartisan approach to this vital climate change subject, except Tony Abbott seems to think that rabble rousing and "bringing the Government down" is all he has to do,....he (Mr.A), has totally lost credibility, so until he can make some positive moves regarding any policy, if ever, I reserve the right to be a Labor supporter, despite the overdose of Labor Bashers on this forum, I know that I have had my say, but the continuum of Labor hate is very tedious.
Have a good one!
NSB

Hi Banjo,
Why don't you re-read the list at the bottom of your last post.....I acknowledge your right to opinion, but you probably don't like others pulling your political persuasions to bits either.
Have a good one Banjo
NSB

themonk:>> Sonofgloin
You are wrong when you state the banks were in no trouble during the GFC.The NAB and Westpac borrowed close to $20 billion from the American Fed to resolve their liquidity problems but have not informed the public,<<

Themonk, well I am pleased that most of what I write gets your seal of approval, but if I may address the above statement.

If your criteria for "trouble" re the impact of the GFC on Australia is the banks having to compete with broke Northern Hemisphere govts for "credit" from the Rothchilds and associates then yes we had trouble. What that means in practical terms is that our banks are borrowing at 3% and charging us 7%. Pre the GFC our banks were borrowing at around 1-5% from the European money lenders. When you talk about the American Fed you are talking about the Rothchilds and associates European banking cartel. There is no American Federal Reserve as such, the Fed is a consortium of the previously mentioned European banks.

If your criteria for “trouble” is an immediate spike in unemployment, a historically high residential and commercial foreclosure rate and the dual plagues of the redemption of loans on call and a tightening of credit within a matter of weeks then Australian banks did not have “trouble” they had market fluctuation.

Further to that Australian banks borrow largely from our savings accounts - the money we've stashed away, some $1200 Billion at the time of the GFC as that is the amount to which our government guaranteed personal savings accounts. I don’t know what $20 Billion you are talking about, but Australia's big banks will need to borrow more than $130 billion from local and overseas markets in the next year to help fund their lending books, predominantly for housing.

Just as a side bar, we are borrowing 100 Billion to fund our financial system next year, and Gillard wants to spend $40 Billion + on holes and cables....imbecile in action, reality has fled from her left and right hemispheres, does she know what a BILLION is?

Dear NSB,

Few people will deny that the planet has a finite amount of resources or that it can tolerate only a limited amount of
pollution. If world population continues to grow rapidly, if industrialisation spreads around the world, and if population and resource depletion continue at an increasing rate - and all these things are happening - where is human society headed?
Sad that some people don't seem to care about the future. Only what's in it for me.

Hi Lexi,
Well said...I don't know how old some of these members are, but they seem to reflect some of the younger ones today who appear to be only interested in themselves or adopt the philosophy that tends to 'let other people sort it out'.....pity.
I like your intelligent posts, well done Lexi.
NSB

NSB:>> It annoys me that because one party doesn't satisfy everybody in Oz, it doesn't mean that they are bad, both the Major Parties have stuffed up big time, in one way or another,<<

Noisy at this point we must inject relativity into the discussion; let’s consider landmark Australian government achievements:

Record national debt accrued by a government since Federation...LABOR
Record time to accumulate national debt by a government...LABOR
Record extension of government debt ceiling legislation...LABOR
Record failed national projects (in implementation or design)...LABOR
Record abandoned projects (after implementation)...LABOR
Record public service numbers...LABOR
Record spent on consultants (spin docs)...LABOR
Record spent on media releases...LABOR
Record "cost of government in a single term" since Federation...LABOR
Record national "cost of living" rises under a government...LABOR

I dunno , there seems to be a clear winner there to me. The AUSTRALIAN Labor Party is gone, the ethos of the souls who fought for equality and fair and equitable government support by way of pensions and social stipends is gone, it all went when more lawyers than boilermakers filled the benches.

NSB>> whilst most people disagree with policies (both real and imagined), they see a policy which will suit their ethos<<

If we are talking Gillard and her band of faithful failures could someone keep us informed of what Bob says her ethos is for today?

Dear NSB,

Thanks for your kind words. As I stated in my earlier post - the
politicians of both the Coalition and the ALP have performed well -
that is at what they've set out to do. Both need to hold the centre, for without middle Australia, each is done for. The Coalition wants the growing inequality of income, wealth and power distribution to keep going. The ALP wants to tone it down a bit. Many voters ask -
why do we have two parties? Because as someone pointed out - because a stick has two ends: a proverbial sh@tty one, and a sweet one. Each party tries to hand the other's constituency the end it prefers they have. The oalition does that best, I grant you. And as we can see this is Mr Abbott's own last grasp for power. He has nothing to offer but slogans and vacuous performances.

Noisy,
If I belonged to a party that had made so many costly failures and stuff ups as the present mob in Canberra, I would resign out of shame. We are talking billions and billions of taxpayers dollars simply wasted with no or little benefit.

I am not just dissatisified, I am very angry at the waste when I think of all the benefits of infrastructure, and so on, that could have been achieved with the funds.

This mob in power do not deserve your, or my, support because of their foolishness.

They have gone from a bank surplus to an incredible ammount of debt, which will have to be repaid, with interest. They have spent like drunken sailors and we are left with the debt. They should not get another go at our wallets and purses.

The sooner they are gone the better for everyone in Aus.

Ludwig,

Firstly on a personal basis your nothing to me. To complain as you did the trade was stopped for 4 weeks to try to stop animals being flocked to death with chains is beyond comprehension.
How could anybody complain about that. I cannot in here express my utter contempt strongly enough for your comment. There is no excuse and of course it was done straight away.
What did you prefer Ludwig we allowed thousands more to be stabbed 33 times and flocked with chains – SCUM is what people are who support that .

Without warning- Your kidding Ludwig. There has been warnings 60 minutes inquiry after inquiry and bans by Liberal government for years. Just how much more warnings do you want.? How many more millions of the public tax payers $ do you want spent on this dead end economy trade. Do you know how much each tax payer pays to top this evil trade up- Do you.?

*How the hell could you possibly think that was appropriate?*

How in the hell could it NOT be the appropriate action.

*We are lucky that Indonesia didn’t keep it that way and source all their imported cattle from elsewhere* > smile<
Allow me to inform you about that er, luck. Indonesia is a very corrupt country. Its just their way. Of course no surprises there – we all know that.
However the $ paid by way of bribes openly are another matter when it involves other countries and organizations
The bribes are made all the time- quiet openly and AQIS are fully aware of it. Just because they are too gutless to do something- doesn’t mean the rest of us are.

TBC

The government need to be also careful with their lies that there are no inquires/ meetings regarding ritual slaughter in Australia- while at the same time”” Holding rushed hushed meeting in South Australia on Monday & meetings last week in WA to support ritual slaughter in Australia.

This is despicable behavior from this ALP Government and we won’t tolerate it. No doubt they think”” if they support ritual slaughter in Australia there will be no grounds to support banning the live trade-. Of Course if Abbott being the good churchy had any common decency he would speak up ....

They ALL need to watch they don’t walk into a royal commission. We don’t want AU turned into a 3rd world country . The Attorney general said No Sharia Law in AU. That’s not true. They approved it for ritual slaughter. No wonder why Muslims get mixed messages.

*But if we can make sure that the proper humane*

Dear God man use your brains’! Did you read that on a government web site? Or maybe picked it up on a google search put out by MLA or the industry.

Are you that gullible- here is news-

Indonesia Refuse to stun first then cut the throats. I will say it again in another way that perhaps you might understand Indonesia is a long way from Australia.

That don’t give a continental about what Australia say.

There are thousands of Australian cattle in feed lots in Indonesia & if you think the Indonesians have stopped locals and their everyday buyers buying your dreaming.

Likewise if you think good old Indonesia are saying no oh no mister you no buy those cows they are Australian and we promised the Government we would supply you anymore

If you really believe that your insane.Oh deary me- did the Government promise you that wouldnt happen.

Gee did Joe and Julie Lie?
Nah Tony just forced them to resume.

Either way Indonesia will do what Indonesia does.

Hi Banjo,
Are you really trying to tell me that the Howard Government didn't waste money, why did they sell of government agencies such as Telstra et al? after all it was funded by tax payers....did we as tax payers get any of the spoils? No, my friend, it was put into the coffers of the Government to fund their superannuation, lets not call the Labor party wasteful, my friend, I am afraid that all, or at least most, of the Pollies, from any persuasion are as wasteful as the rest.
I would like to see a lot more accountability from both sides my friend.
Have a good night
NSB PS., The W.A. News Channel ran a series of Government 'SHAME', it included a huge dumpster bin full of expensive wheel chairs....why were they in it? I hear you ask?....Answer....Because they needed the tyres pumping up.....at least they could have sent them over to the underdeveloped countries, or at least the struggling families who might need one in Australia.....at the end of the day my friend, they are all tarred with the same brush.

Posted by Shadow Minister

**I have heard that some of the footage on 4 corners was not recent and was added for effect.

This stoppage was done based on the media / focus groups, and not a reasoned response. **

Well SM thats a bit of a childish lame comment with nothing to back it up.

How do I know your not just making it up.

Where may I ask did you heard this?

Of course if you dont want to reply we will just take it thats its a lie.

Not the first, not the last, but the only one that will be remembered for all time.

Forming government with the Greens.

That is going to cost the ALP more than most people can even imagine in the medium- to long-term. The rest is detail, we've had bad governance before and we'll get it again, that's no big deal in the larger scheme of things. In fact, right now Abbott could state that he was aware the entire "Children Overboard" fiasco was a fake from the start and he'd thrive on his "honesty"...

The ALP has to realise that running after the green vote is a lost cause, it destroyed Latham, it is in the process of destroying Gillard and it will continue to destroy anyone who does it. Those votes are lost and not worth pursuing - because even if you do as the Greens want, their voters will still vote Green (thus you alienate ALP Voters chasing approval from people who won't vote for you anyway, regardless of what you do).

It'd be like the ALP running after small business, expecting them to support the ALP at the ballot box, oh, that's right...

sonofgloin,

I read your post on the 17th I think it was. At least one person in here understands re real problems of this country and why both sides have been just as destructive as the other.
Yes they signed our country away without even asking us.
what do we do now. Well there is a group formed wanting to attack this and take it to the high court. Its our only hope. Let me know if your interested to hear more. Sorry I didnt read it before & i hope you understand I felt a bit sorry for the other poster.
I would like to hear more of your comments if your still posting.
Its very hard to find others who really understand what Australia needs. I agree it wont matte who wins unless we fix this.

Trouble is we are running out of time & everybody is asleep complaining about little issues instead of looking at the much bigger threat.

cheers

KA,

I heard it on the radio in an interview. That is why I said I heard it. I have also never heard any claims to the contrary. Perhaps you could provide them.

As you have never provided back up for your claims, this is a bit rich, am I to assume that you are lying about all of them?

As far as crippling an entire industry in a week without any further investigation, that is a move of idiocy that only the ALP could pull off. That it was the result of the media is self evident, and their continued use of focus groups is hardly a secret.

Kerryanne we as humans make a judgment on the actions and motives of other humans based on our life experience. We sitting in the mass of the greater unwashed do not have the inclination or power to control all those around us, so we busy ourselves with bringing whatever control we can on an interpersonal level to those we do interact with.

When can be assured that organizations including our own governments are acting for a miniscule minority rather than representing the needs and wants of the majority , we think, this could not be so, we elected the government, they are Aussies as we are, they have families, they live here as well and want the best for our young....it is not so.

When in power a different dynamic kicks in, our crappy little government is part of the global picture and a global picture needs direction from parties disinterested in the outcomes of a nation, they are statesmen and women of the globe now, not Aussies. That is the issue, who does our government serve, not us. As you said both sides of politics have abandoned Australia’s future.

Noisy,
I am not here to defend the Libs from critisism. When they make blunders they have to wear them as well. You are welcome to make a list of Lib stuff ups if you so desire. You could start with the 'Baby Bonus', and I would agree.

Right now Labor is in power and has made a complete hash of governing as my list plainly shows. No one has questioned what I have listed as major stuff ups.

The only additional stuff up I can now list is the Timor detention centre, which never even got to first base.

So with that addition I will say the list is complete, at this point, and save it and print it in readiness for the next election.

LABORS RECENT STUFF UPS.

Grossly increased Immigration
Invitation for 'illegal' boat entries
Did away with Nauru and TPVs (failure to stop the boats)(200 die)
Detention centres opened on mainland. (promised not to do so)
Home insulation acheme (homes burnt and workers died)
BER schools project (builders early retirement)
grocery watch
petrol watch
Cash givaway ($900 I think)
cash for clunkers
green loans scheme
Live cattle exports
Desalination plants, at least 3 (billions spent, now not needed)
60c kw for home solar power, NSW
Super Medical Clinics
Failure to build promised aboriginal housing in NT
Hospitals takeover and funding
Timor detention centre

Hi Banjo,
Yes I agree with you about many things, both with Labor & Liberal Parties, would that we could do away with Party politics and have our elected representatives free from Party arm bending, and represent the various economies and electorates according to those/their needs, ah me,
I have always had 'pie in the sky' aspirations about local politicians, in the hope that they could well represent we folks in the country better than they can/do.
I am not totally one-eyed re Labor Party politics, the same applies to the coalition. I was appalled when Costello, in the Howard Government stood up for the 'great announcement' that he was giving Pensioners an increase......yeah... five dollars... that amount barely would have paid for a loaf of bread and half a litre of milk, mostly the City centrics have no idea what it is like living in W.A. Country areas, everything is so much dearer than the city, we are 700 plus kms from Perth, why do we live in the country? because the government of the day encouraged people to move to the bush.....yeah.... just to be forgotten....Frankly I don't trust most politicians, and most haven't a clue what Country folk sometimes have to endure. But we live in a beautiful place on the Eastern Southern Coast of W.A., so I shouldn't complain.
Cheers my friend,
NSB

Dear NSB,

You're a kindred spirit that's for sure!

I've just re-discovered this, you may enjoy it:
It's by Dennis Pryor from his satirical booklet
called "Political Pryorities: How to Get on
Top of Australian Politics."

"Dedicated to Canberra
Where bureaucrats parasitical
And parties political
And Ministers hypocritical
Steal the money of the nation
Through what they call taxation."

Dear Noisy,

While walking down the street a Member of Parliament is hit by a truck and dies. His soul arrives at the Pearly Gates and is met by St Peter. "Welcome, you will spend one day in Hell and one day in Heaven. Then you can choose where to spend the rest of eternity."

"I've made up my mind. I want to be in Heaven," says the MP.

"I'm sorry, but we have our rules."

St Peter escorts the MP to the elevator, down to Hell. The doors open and the MP finds himself in the middle of a golf course. There's a Clubhouse and standing in front are many of his politicians. They welcome him and remember the good times. They play a game of golf and dine on lobster, caviar and champagne. Time passes quickly.

The elevator goes up and the door re-opens - where St Peter is waiting for him.
"Now it's time to visit Heaven."
24 hours pass with the MP joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud playing the harp and singing. Again, before he realises it 24 hours go by and St Peter returns.
"Well, you've spent a day in Hell and another in Heaven. Now choose your eternity."

"Well, I would never have said it before, Heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in Hell." St Peter escorts the MP to the elevator which goes down to Hell.

The doors of the elevator open and the MP finds himself in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage. His friends dressed in rags, are picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above.

"I don't understand," stammers the MP. "Yesterday I was here - we ate lobster and caviar and drank champagne and had a great time. Now there's just a waste land full of garbage and my friends look miserable."
"What happened?"

The devil looks at the MP, smiles and says, "Yesterday we were
campaigning."

"Today you voted!"

Hi Lexi,
I am still virtually rofl, well said, I like that one..very much.
Will get my husband to read it.
I reckon that politicians should restore the dignity that both sides of
the house practiced.(used to practice) I do not like the level to which our so-called
Leaders have sunk to. I might just to abstain from voting one day.
Don't forget to keep posting.
Cheers for now,
NSB

Dear Noisy,

Delighted that you liked it.
I think most of us are sick and tired of the way
our politics has reached an all time low. Where
are the statesman-like qualities of the past - and
the clever and witty remarks that used to feature
among politicians of previous eras. Where are the
Winston Churchills of today? We seem to be stuck
with George Bush types.

Hi Lexi,
Yes, the dignity of old, has turned into a Rabble Rousing Bush type administration. At one time I could go to my Representative with problems and talk them over, now you don't even see them. I think they become Parliament Struck, and now the only seeming requirement is Ego, and a big one at that.
Pity though, I used to enjoy watching question time, but it is just like watching a Kindergarten at play, only with grownups pretending to be politicians....how sad. A lot of them have degrees in Politics, but that doesn't make them good politicians, a point which is demonstrated each time I watch them in action.
Cheers Lexi,
NSB

I have been looking at the posts on this thread from the beginning, and then I thought, why are we so passionate about the stuff-ups....? from both parties, because at the end of the day, we cannot change that which is. We can only remove them or keep them once every three years or so?, what a lot of fuss about nothing..
Cheers,
NSB

Dear Noisy,

I think you may have stumbled onto something here.
Perhaps it just goes to show how easily we're all
influenced (and manipulated?) by the media and
the pollies - who after all want us to vote for
them at the next election. Silly us. We should
be more demanding and call them to account.

a lot of fuss about nothing..
NSB,
I'm inclined to view the incompetent pollies & administrators as a direct reflection of the voters. Sit back & contemplate the mentality in this country then ponder of what I'm saying.
btw. it's not really fuss about nothing because the fuss comes mainly from people who are opposed to those who are concerned about the lack of integrity & that is a real worry.