@Lugwig: The important thing was that a decisive political action was taken, at great risk, which proved to be the right action when considered along with the whole subsequent approach to the issue.

Sorry, I missed this bit. No action was taken before the election that had any influence whatsoever on whether the boats arrived. You acknowledge this.

You say he "took decisive political action". Since he didn't do anything that altered the refugee outcome, it could only have been decisive in the effect it had on on the electoral outcome. In other words when it comes to the boats arriving saying nothing would have had a similar non-effect, and perhaps just announcing the policies he did in implement later would have had a bigger effect. But instead he instructed his military to not keep him informed, knowingly broke the law of the high seas, got into a diplomatic row with another country, told the voters things he knew were probably not true, and daemonised a group of refugees.

Now you are probably thinking if he had not have pulled this stunt he made not have been re-elected. It's doubtful. It was right after September 11, and the Ansett failure. But lets say you are right. I imagine you then going on to claim if Howard hadn't been elected nothing would have happened on the refugee front. Since you evidently wanted decisive action on boat arrivals you think the ends justifies the means.

I don't think it would have worked out like that. Howard's Labor predecessors, Hawk/Keating were pretty harsh on the refugee front. Notice that now the boats hit the same level they did on the eve of the 2001 elections, Labor is now looking at solutions very similar to the ones Howard used. So my guess is the things you wanted done would have been done regardless of the who won the election. After all Hansen had freshly ploughed the row. It was there for either side to sow and reap the benefits, and the rising boat numbers would have made it difficult to do otherwise.

Hello Ludwig,
What ever comment I would make is irrelevant now, as the Mighty John Howard is no longer at the helm, so to speak.
Perhaps I should have commented on those refugees who are not genuine, I am more interested in the welfare of the genuine ones.
But I have to admire the pluck of those who are not genuine, it shows the level of desperation, and I would like to think that i would never be in that situation that they find themselves in, don't be too hard on me my friend, because let's face it, even the high flying politicians don't really know what to do with the folk who are claiming political asylum, they still have to be processed, and if they fail the test, they get sent back. What else can I say.
Cheers NSB

Hi King Hazzu,
Thankyou for your precise and accurate post. I totally agree, let us process them all so that we don't send the wrong ones back. Politics really should be left out of this, although I realise that it would be impossible. It really is a subject of humanity, I am appalled at a lot of these posters who seem to regard any refugees with contempt, God forbid that they ever find themselves in the refugees' shoes.
Well said,
Noisy Scrub Bird

Politics really should be left out of this, although I realise that it would be impossible.
Noisy,
therefore the above is a pointless statement.
You say don't send the wrong ones back. That is precisely the crux of the dilemma. How do you propose we go about finding out who is & who is not a genuine refugee when you have the oppressors travelling on the boats with the victims ?

Noisy, who on this thread is regarding refugees with contempt?

NSB,

I believe the world refugee problem is beyond the scope of any country to resolve in a proper manner.

It only requires a major disturbance in a particular part of the world and the problem assumes a different nature dependent on the demographic the refugees real or imagined happen to be migrating from.

Our government past and present has never had any coherent system or solution just making do as circumstances were or are dictated by domestic politics.

The refugees no matter what their ethnic background or whether they were true refugees or not have been buffeted by the vagaries of the Australian political scene for quite some time.

Join the queue! By the time a refugee had advanced a few paces down this supposed queue the goalposts have shifted yet again in Australia.

Consistent we are not, for a variety of reasons, most hard to reconcile and understand from the refugees viewpoint.

Howards claim to fame was that for a short period of time he was seen to be very decisive but sadly not necessarily right His decision did appear to make the electorate happy and that is what it was all about. Ethics and humanity were not part of his decision.

The situation is on going with no resolution in sight. To find the balance between votes and ethics is always a difficult task.

Shaggy Dog