Quite so, Noisy Scrub bird;
This SHOULD be an extremely simple issue for most people;
Sadly it seems many people only have the capacity to pick a 'side' that argues for the most generalized "let them all in" or "shut them all out" angles;
It only gets worse when either side presents completely baloney arguments and stances they probably don't even believe themselves;
Some noteworthy ones are the "we only want to stop people smugglers from putting people in danger!" by the anti crowd, and the various weak attempts by the 'pro' crowd to link hostility to our more recent refugee intakes to Middle Americans against Mexicans, Nazi Germany against Jews or even the White Australia policy- when the differences are quite clear.

To be honest I'd rather make a clear point and expect to stand up for it rather than sugar-coat a stance I have.
When people start to fudge their supposed reasons to something more politically-correct or marketable, the entire debate takes a pointless turn and never gets resolved.

Dear King Huzza,
Well said my friend, quite frankly I am sick of the goal post shifting
indulged in by some Politions. I reckon that a Government who would be capable of enacting unpopular policies, such as illegal/legal boat people, carbon tax etc, just because it is the right thing to do, would have my vote any day. Whilst I was not impressed with Julia Gillards' delivery on carbon tax, she at least is doing something which should have been done a decade ago, I fail to comprehend the Oppositions leaders' stance especially knowing that he thought and vocalised that climate change is crap, he might enjoy the popularity of the wealthy voters, but he doesn't cut it with me., his put-down of Climate Change is to protect the wealthy voters and big business. Ah Well!, I guess I will sit back and see how many people sling pooh at me today.
Keep posting my friend, I look forward to reading them.
Noisy

Dear Shaggy Dog,
What a good 'levelling' post, you said it all in an even handed, measured way, both calming and insightful, in my view I think you have summed up the whole issue of boat people. Well done, my friend.
Noisy Scrub Bird.

Rstuart

Well said.

The action taken on boat refugees has remained as "the end justifies the means" for both sides of politics for decades now.

Only those retired from the political system appear to have developed a moral compass, shame their views and the demonstrations by many concerned Australians have been and continue to be blatantly ignored.

"Refugees

Australia has historically welcomed a large number of refugees. Currently they make up a fairly small percentage of immigration to Australia. The number of boat people coming to Australia is small, even compared with the number of refuges allowed in.

The boat people do not affect Australia’s population at all. This is because they are included in the rather meagre number of refugees allowed in. So, if a thousand boat people are given permission to stay, a thousand other refugees will have to wait. Our population, and our population growth are not affected by the boat people"

http://ergpower.info/Refugees.php

And a few facts:
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/SearchResults.asp
www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/sp/AsylumFacts.pdf

Rstuart, you wrote:

<< To Howards eternal credit, at a deeper level he was a very honest politician. I admire that in him >>

And then you wrote in a subsequent post:

<< Howard lied, dogged and deceived on all sorts of things. >>

I’m having trouble understanding that.

You seem to think that the onshore asylum seeking issue was not a major policy area and that Howard was only honest regarding bigger things. I’d say that it certainly is a major political subject and it continues to make no sense to me as to why you think he would be basically honest regarding big issues, except for the asylum seeker issue.

<< I imagine you then going on to claim if Howard hadn't been elected nothing would have happened on the refugee front. >>

In all probability nothing would have happened until the issue had escalated considerably, and then actions would not have been as decisive as his, resulting in something similar to the mess are now experiencing, but on a considerably larger scale.

But ultimately, similar policies would have to have been implemented, be it Liberal or Labor in power. And by that time they could well have been considerably harsher.

<< Howard's Labor predecessors, Hawk/Keating were pretty harsh on the refugee front. Notice that now the boats hit the same level they did on the eve of the 2001 elections, Labor is now looking at solutions very similar to the ones Howard used. So my guess is the things you wanted done would have been done regardless of the who won the election. >>

YES!

What alternatives were there??

As I keep saying, a no-detention policy, along with the rest of NSB's and Sarah Hanson-Young’s wishes of how to treat asylum seekers, would have resulted in an opening of the proverbial floodgates.

A ‘turn-the-boats-around policy would have been unacceptable.

A middle-ground Howard-style policy, which Labor is now looking at through necessity, was/is the ONLY real option!

Come on, it really is time that you and NSB stopped condemning Howard for his part in all of this.

What gets me is there are some people in Aus that are so ill informed, naive and gullible that they feel compassion for the illegals that arrive here by boat.

Simple facts are that the illegals are shonks that get to our shores by fraud, cheating, bribery and deceit. Then further blatantly lie to our officials here. They elbow others out of the way, that may have been waiting years to get a place.

Not one of the 4-5 pro-illegals posters here can give any reason why the illegals should be given advantage over those that have not the funds to buy their way here. I am refering to the poor wretches that are stuck in, say, Burma, Malaysia or Africa.

The pro-illegal advocates try falsely to take the high moral ground but the ethical ones are those who have empathy for genuine refugees. The refugees who do not gate crash our borders.

In all fairness the illegal arrivals have to be stopped,if for no other reason but to give the others a fair go