Lexi

I don't even know where to begin here. I am not judging Mexicans
in particular, but the impact of religion on all of us.

One thing most religions have in common is the elevation of humans above the rest of the world. Not so long ago we believed the earth was the centre of the universe.

Placing a real or imagined creator above maintaining its creation (our world) has led us to where we are today - in danger of destroying it. This is what religion has embedded in many of us, to our loss. There is greater majesty in a tree, than anything we have built. For example, look at the death of the eco-system that was Easter Island when its people took to placing worship above all else.

The forest is my cathedral, yet because I am an atheist, religious people declare me to be materialistic in a selfish sense. I find this to be hypocritical. I understand that many people find solace in their religious worship and I would have no problem with this except for the havoc its causes both people who do not share a particular religion and on the environment in general.

Dear Ammonite,

So let me get this straight. You're blaming the destruction of the environment on religion? Interesting theory.

Lexi

No, not entirely. But I don't see how placing humans above nature has helped. Clearly greed and exploitation has played a part.

I can't believe you are treating my opinions in such a simplistic manner. I do not see everything in terms of black and white, but I do see where SOME religions have been complicit in SOME of the worst excesses of human behaviour.

George W's belief in a war on terror in the name of the Christian god springs to mind, preceded as it was by the destruction of the twin towers due to another religion.

Dear Lexi,

Yours is a path of love. I suspect that Ammonite is writing from a place of fear: s/he is genuinely afraid of what might happen to our environment if we fail to invest enough of our energy into making it sustainable.

Indeed, sooner or later there will come a time when no amount of human effort will be sufficient to save our environment, till then it's an uphill battle.

Ammonite is correct in observing that "Our relationship with the material world has been disrupted by religion", but that's how it should be, for our current relationship with the material world is based on attachment, and ultimately no one can serve two masters.

An allegory to the human condition can be found in the story of Indra as pig. The easiest version (though abridged) I could find online is in http://askbaba.helloyou.ch/saibabagita/saigita157.html and a funny play on it is in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzU7mtasg4A .

Dear Ammonite,

Just saw your reply:

Obviously you do not belong to any organized religion or share their beliefs, and I fully understand why. That does not make you any less spiritual, more materialistic or more selfish than those who do.

God bless you both.

Oh good grief!
When gurus start to wax lyrical with their pious platitudes like this, it's time to take to my heels!
Thanks Poirot and Ammonite for your excellent contributions.
Catch you somewhere else!

Dear Ammonite,

I understand what you're saying.

As I've written in the past, so many times. I used to think that I wasn't religious, and perhaps I wasn't. I didn't like what organized religion had done to the world. I still don't. However, I've come to see that true religion is internal not external. The spirit within us cannot be blamed for the blasphemies carried out in its name. Organized religions have become in many cases as calcified as other institutions that form the structure of our modern world. Experience of the spirit breaks through illusions of our guilt and separateness. It is radically committed to the natural goodness and inherent oneness that lies at the center of who we really are.

In the last twenty years, I have been sincerely working on myself, however inconsistently. I'm not so much trying to make a place for myself in the world; I'm trying to make a place in myself for the world. I'm not striving to do something new, to replace external structures that no longer work. Rather I'm striving to be something new, to replace internal energies that were not working.