I see political leadership as a trek through dense bush over mountains, across rivers.

There are many pitfalls, false paths and "wild tribes" in the way.

When trekking through the bush be prepared to lead a group through an adventure to safety. Come prepared with maps and equipment for all eventualities. Some may go astray but with sensible leadership they will prevail in the end.

So too with political leadership when there is no positive direction and many are lost. We know how much it costs for search and rescue.

Moses took 40 years to lead his people we don't have that long.

So who are our best leaders, why don't they lead?

Have you seen the film, "Being There" with Peter Sellers? A satire on the influence of a simple-minded gardener on the leaders of the day?

How do I see our political leaders?
Brown - would invite his team to stand knee-deep in the stream and
admire the breeze and the trees.

Abbott - would climb up trees, run up mountains, swim up rivers and
end up where he started with his team waiting for him to lead.

Gillard - would gather her group, set out on a very long trek, occasionally use a compass to get back on trek and sooner or later reach some destination.

How do you see our leaders?

An interesting thread, and if we are going to be honest complex.
I see them both as the wrong leaders.
No surprise,most people do.
But the blame may lay at the feet of our Medea.
I have lived in such days before, 1972 till 1975.
In truth Labor then and now took it for granted voters knew about the good as well as the bad.
They do not, voters are not going to forgive Gillard, she may or may not have lied, she however did not tell us what drove her.
Abbott? true a question ,won leadership as a climate change Deny, backed by the most under informed power brokers in his party.
Hockey Turnbull, a few could do the job so much better.
I true, think Medea self interest, assisted by Labors instant Coffee policy development, are hiding enough about our Tony to remove him over night.
First party to unload its head jumps ten points!
True, weird strange but true.
As my honest opinions will see me buried here is the rest
Ten years from now this government , and me, will be proud of
Getting climate change tax in place [it still will be]
Saying sorry.
NBN Education including but not only infrastructure
Biggest pension rises in our history, reforms [both party's] to unemployment payments ending work choices,
And the stopping, walking on glass, boats by success of Malaya's plan.
Should be noted shadow Minister, not our one real fella , is on record he is, wanting to do this deal with IRAN!
And he and Abbott fear this policy BECAUSE IT WILL WORK and be seen as a brilliant idea.
TWO unloved leaders both party's frozen by fear great for the country? not!

Belly I can't agree with you more.

From what I heard recently the Liberal party cut-backs on government spending may increase unemployment from 5% to ten%. That looks like a
winning call.

If I were a pollie I would pollie in the morning I would pollie in the evening I would pollie all through the night and get nothing done.
But if I had a hammer I would build a solid house.

Empty words have no meaning. We need a solid foundation, a positive direction by all concerned.

There was an old film in the 1950s "The Hill" with Sean Connery. Soldiers were being punished to build a hill of dirt while others were being punished to remove it from the other side. Is that the future of our political system?

The only leader that stood up for the people was labor Jack Lang during the Great Depression.Labor today have sold us out.They will cease to exist as a party if they continue in this vein.

Yes saw the movie Aqueous.
A hard days night ahead for us all.
Labor while excelling in p%^ssing off its own voters ,has done much.
And will do more.
I am angry, forever and ever, at power brokers,even ones I admire, continuing to think they know better.
EGO is a filthy word,along with Solidarity, a term for tell lies,it hamstrings my party.
We can/will get both mining and carbon tax up, fix boat people, [understanding it is what most want] and get a new or even recycled leader.
But EGO, intent to say no she must not go it bruises my EGO delays us Julia is not Satan,she however can not fully come back from here .
She will after further falls get some back on Tiny Tony,but as much possible by him falling as her tactics.
Sad for this country.

"First party to unload its head jumps ten points!"

Apart from the polling making that pretty much a non-option for the Lib's at the moment it's always a difficult call for the opposition when the government has the option of calling an early election. If they got the momentum to dump Abbott, the chances of Julia having a change of heart about the need to go to the poll's over the carbon tax would increase dramatically.

The business of the PM setting the date for elections is a scam. We should have fixed terms with a safety mechanism based on broad cross party agreement that an early poll is waranted.

R0bert

Aquarius, to use your analogy, if Gillard was leading a group the only destination you would get to is a very dark place all the better for her hoods to rip you off completely.

In fact she may not need any hoods, as we already know, she's pretty good with the knife herself, particularly in the back.

Brown would only lead you into the stream the better to make it difficult for you to do anything you may want to, without his permission.

Abbott may make you ride a bike up a hill, or run a mile, either of which may hurt a bit, but he'd have a beer waiting for you when you finished.

Thanks for helping us put these people in perspective.

Unfortunately the main political parties are do not listen to the people of Australia who they claim to represent.
It is my firm belief that all the major political parties and their leaders are more concerned with fighting each others policies whether good or bad.

With regards to the controversual CARBON TAX most Australian people have views and concerns on whether it will or will not be good and the impact it will have if it gets enacted.

As the CARBON TAX will have a large impact on all the people and businesses in Australia, then I firmly believe a REFERENDUM by the people should be held. Holding a REFERENDUM of the people will either endorse or decline a CARBON TAX or E.T.S.

No one I have spoken to knows what the financial costs will be to all of us the people but most beleive what ever the costs will be passed on to us the people. To name some but not just limited to below;

The cost of food will increase, we all have to eat.
The cost of our oops sorry the foreign owned utility companies will increase their prices and past them onto us,
The cost of fuel will increase and will be passed onto us.

How many of the businesses in Australia which provide us with employment will relocate off shore to countries where it is cheaper to manufacture and wages are a less?

We the people of Australia elect the governments to serve us, this means we the people of Australia are their employer and they are our servants.

Our Constitution of Australia 1900 enacted by Federal Parliament in 1901 is still our Supreme legal document to this very day. For many decades our governments have unlawfully ignored and hidden it from us the people.

Leadership does help a lot but it's the masses who need to wake up.
It's like a rowing competition, no matter how good a coxwain if the rowers don't perform the the race is lost.

we are allowed a choice
we are not allowed a voice

jesus said whoever would lead you
must serve you...[and there lies the root exposed]
they serve over you...lord it over others...serve others like themselves

look at ana blight...with clive pal;mers
[who took her to court...got her on his side..*by threat]
now is reaping and pilaging his way to being aussies richest blob/slob

there are no good leaders
demonic autrocracy has built its walls well
we will not have a leader change..till seconds before
they run to election...before the opposition can reveal their feet of clay..

we expect too much from small people
we have rules to control their excess abbuses
but any fool knows that rules are only able to be enforced by a watchdog...[and that bit on the rules we dont got]

in qld they actually did away completly
with the upper house..[who voted their whiole role out of govt]

NO WHERE IN THE SO-CALLED constitution
is this kind of theft from the people..allowed
yet the courts still act like..they got legitimate powers
enforce rules that call a plant a drug...that call wages income

when income-tax..isnt wages tax..
and cannabis is a plant...

but such is the dumness of the runmcorpse..
they police petty crime..ignoring the crime of their masters

and the people...too dumb or lazey to read the rules
or find out what words really mean..get the govt they de-serve

[soon they are to be the next abused..
and they will get the adverse debt..made payable on their bill...while lamenting govt selling off the family silver to her mates]

just like peter beatup before her
and joe bejerkley petershun before him

its comforting that they dig their own pit/fall
partey loyalty is treason upon proper governance
but give monkies gold they give it away for mere peanuts

yes we got..the very poor leaders
we have earned*

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/business-leaders-back-julia-gillard-on-carbon-price-policy/story-fn961iy1-1226084700680
Love to invite the Nay Sayers to get on board.
Read the link, form their own opinions not be lead by Tony Abbott and his branch of the American Tea Party.
Soon, Very soon so very many who say no carbon tax will claim they always wanted one.
And so very soon 2 years is soon, after Conservatives doubt it as a wise and needed measure the ground will be covered in fallen Henny Penny's still and forever waiting for the sky to fall.

Belly,
I for one am not against a tax which reduces pollution. I never have nor will I be against that. What I am against is the carbon tax proposed by the knee jerker Association. Can anyone tell me how a carbon tax in Australia will affect the climate & by when will that effect be measurable ?
How much will the motor racing industry have to pay ? How much will the private jet mob have to pay ? Will non-essential industry be curbed & if so, by how much ? Will the up & coming manufacturing countries discipline themselves & cut back on pollution ?
If we really are so silly as to believe our little mob can make a difference then surely we'd be silly enough to stop all non-essential industry as well like stop free travel for pensioners or pensioner concessions etc. Will Bathurst 1000 & the Grand Prix & Philip Island etc be things of the past or can they continue polluting because they can afford to pay the carbon tax ?

Aquarius,

It seems that you made some basic assumptions which do not apply in reality:

"When trekking through the bush be prepared to lead a group through an adventure to safety".

Who ever said that there is a group here?
Who ever said that they want to be led?
Who ever said that they are looking for adventure? or for safety?
Who ever said that they all want to arrive at the same place?
and who ever said that they are looking for you to provide it?

We are individuals, living our lives. We have our own goals and we did not subscribe to be anyone's sheep. I understand that some baddies are out to use and rob us - that's just part of nature, but other than in kids' movies, is the lion truly the KING of the jungle? is he indeed the leader of the animals?

Dear Aquarius,

I like your comparison of the politicians with survival in the bush.
I don't really know that much about Brown - he seems a bit of a dreamer to me - so perhaps you're spot on with him. Gillard, yes I also agree - she needs a compass, but she shouldn't wait too long - actions may just save her yet. Abbott also needs to stop tearing around all over the place. At present, I think I'd prefer to find my own way out of the bush rather than let anyone of them do it for me.
They all need to lift their game and quickly. Otherwise we'll all be wandering around in circles.

Lexi first, Bob Brown won his spurs with a win on saving the Franklin River, he had help, an ALP government Bob Hawk.
He has progressively got more radical, how ever[dislike him and his team] he is beginning to learn to except he must bargain, an improvement.
Individual, well are you going to read and consider what I say in answer to your question? it has been answered many times before.
Gillards Carbon tax /ETS has these aims.
To cut our share, we are high on the list of polluters.
So as to, get other country's involved.
Insure we are not left behind, we nearly are now.
To stop Australian industry's being fined as Quantas was for not having an ETS.
Be in front with new power fuels and energy by making those things cheaper by increasing bad fuel costs.
Great leaps and profits are going to be made in this area.
You ask questions/put phantom costs, on things the government is still negotiating, they will tell us soon.
This tax ETS is about to be achieved! it is! and the lost children on Abbott's team refused to be part of it.
Out standing,, remember that after the dust has settled and only a very few have the courage to say gee its ok I was wrong.
Now, mate, go back read it again, then?
Come back and verbally flog me again!
KNOWING Gillard is about to deliver this great achievement makes me happy to be your target.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/blogs/rocco-bloggo/tony-behave-yourself-20110630-1gs3b.html
If for no other reason than to rebut my claims about the bloke the link is worth a look.

Belly I folllowed the link and watched the attached video. Is there a joke in that somewhere?

There was nothing in the video of serious content, just an animation of mostly Rudd with a tiny bit of Abbott at the end.

At best you could take it as a comment on Abbott's behaviour in highlighting Rudd's failings helped to give us Julia but the votors had a say in that as well.

R0bert

Belly just had a look at a couple of the other video's from your linked page.

Loved the Chaser songs about Peter Garrett and the moving rendition of Stairway to Kevin.

Much more fun.

R0bert

We've got a whole bunch of political issues at the moment that are doing the rounds in the media. From NBN, carbon tax, Refugees, cattle slaughter, who would be the best PM, which party should we vote for, who has the best policies - and so on. Will we have an early election,
will we have new leadership of both the two major parties? All are interesting questions and eventually the answers will appear. However I'm wondering who will be the first politician and or party that will
do what New York has done - and that is legalise same-sex marriage in Australia?

Instead of having a plebiscite on the carbon tax - why not a Referendum on same-sex marriage. Let the people decide. After all isn't it time that a secular country like Australia not stick with legilsation that is antiquated and does not represent all of its citizens. Why should a religious few continue to dictate to the majority? Our laws should be about "inclusion," not "exclusion." Especially concerning commitments and life-choices between consenting adults.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/times-up-for-teardown-tony-20110624-1gjiv.html
Try this RObert, the cartoon was drawn in reference to this story linked to the same page.
good one both sides seemed fairly treated too.

Hi Lexi, well put. I am hetrosexual but do have gay family and some freinds. The only difference between straight people and gay people are their sexual partner preferences. I beleive Gay people have as much right to choose how they live as we straight people.
They earn a living, pay tax, vote etcetera as do us straight people so they are entitled to live their lives as they wish and have equal opportunities.
We all exist by the theory harm no one and love each other as ourselves. My understanding is, that means freedom to choose what we do in life and unless we harm someone then we commit NO offence.

Dear Lexi,

"Why should a religious few continue to dictate to the majority? Our laws should be about "inclusion," not "exclusion." Especially concerning commitments and life-choices between consenting adults."

It is indeed wrong for anyone to dictate anything to others, regardless of numbers and who has a majority. I do also need to point out that just because certain people belong to religious orders it does not follow that they are in fact religious or that others who do not belong to religious orders are irreligious.

As for "Our laws", legislators have no mandate to either include or exclude anyone. They should stick only to their minimal tasks of protecting society from violence and fraud.

Now if you truly want to separate the church and state (which I support), then every reference to the word "marriage" should be removed from all legislation, not just "same-sex marriage". Commitments and life choices of consenting adults (that includes consenting adult choices of people who are not yet legally-adult) are their private affair and the government should stay right out of the picture!

Belly that was an interesting article. It will be interesting to see if Abbott does switch tactics as an election draw's nearer and if so how well he does.

R0bert

Interesting thread.

May I suggest that my favourite MP, Joe Hockey, would find the shortest route to the treetop boardwalk cafe and sit back with his mates with a drink while cracking jokes about the others' futile journeys. When I say he's my 'favourite' MP, that's because I think he makes a great shadow treasurer. More affable than Wayne Swan, but perfectly suited to the shadow cabinet.

I think the trouble with this whole hiking trek is that the hikers themselves don't know where they want to go. Some have a destination in mind, others have a different destination; the vast majority, though (and I qualify that this is just my opinion), either have no destination in mind or have a destination but not the conviction to follow it. Perhaps it's because we have so little faith in our leaders that we don't believe they'll ever get us there. I think that lack of faith is well-founded.

As Belly says, the media has a lot to do with this (interesting [and very apt] misspelling, Belly: Medea was the wife of Jason in Greek mythology, and eventually brought about his downfall). To weave it back into our hiking trip, the media is the collection of inaccurate guidebooks carried by the trekkers. The leader has one, which makes him (or her) take a lot of wrong paths. Each of the hikers carries another, which make clear that the leader has taken the wrong path while presenting a range of other (wrong) paths to the hikers. The result is misguided dissent - the hikers don't trust the leaders, but they don't have the right answers themselves.

Interesting times.

Otokonoko. Brilliant. I really enjoyed your take on hiking and leadership. That is so true. I wish the pollies would read it.
But then they may not understand, they don't have the broader
view of life and that's why they constantly get lost.
Replacing their guide books won't achieve much because the media won't change. They will always present the failures and not give a positive direction because that's what sells.

Leadership will return, in my view, when the journalists' stop putting their own spin on politics, and when Julia Gillard stops having knee-jerk reactions to certain groups. ( I refer here to the dreadful slaying of cattle in the overseas abbattoirs ), sure it is acceptable to have groups who are passionate about what we recently witnessed, but in her hurry to get her Ag.Minister to act, both Gillard and Ludwig fired from the hip in order to achieve a satisfactory and rapid result, thus the graziers in the mentioned places suffered a terrible financial loss, not to mention the truck drivers and the shipping lines. Surely it would have been better to think things through for 24 - 48hours and come to a better solution.,
But, I digress, I reckon we should get the media out of the political arena, the pollies should give a short once a week 'sound bite' session for about 30mins, and definitely pull the media up for not reporting the truth;, sometimes the media lie by ommission, which is often worse than bending the truth.
But we do need a leader with strength and vision,sadly such qualities are missing on both sides of the parliament. But my money (on the long term is on the Gillard Government).

Two things, country bumpkin that I was ,I started life hating gays.
Sorry but being honest, changed after finding out work mate was one then a few I knew.
I think we, all of us, are hypocrites.
We use church as a reason to get involved in this, none of our business let them wed, Gillard is acting here in fear only.
My great fear is politics, my party, every ones party is not looking for statesmen and women any more.
And that media, [thanks] is not reporting but manufacturing news.
What are the qualifications for news folk to ask questions full of funnel web spiders?

Lexi, mate, what some homosexuals do with their tongues, & other bits to whom, where, under what circumstances, & covered by what law, is about as important to the scheme of things as what some ants may be doing down in my bottom paddock. There are many much more important things to keep us busy.

RObert I think that article was one from a despairing Labor supporter, hoping some muck, if enough is thrown, will stick to Abbott. To me he is looking better every day. I expect to see him grow into quite a leader, even with his budgies, much hated by the feminists.

I watched Labor spend about 6 years hammering away at the "Honest John" nickname, as it made life difficult for a bunch of liars to compete. That they try to use as a put down, the athletic ability, of about the only Canberra polly, who could walk from one end of parliament house to the other, says so much about them.

The current lot can't even do it themselves, that they have to bring in the troops in the press to do it for them makes it even worse.

A few minutes ago I heard a scientist say on the radio that cattle belching produces a lot of greenhouse gas. Now, with Julia's mob holding back all those belching cows from exporting to Indonesia will the Gillard Government tell us to how much emission tax this will amount to ?

Dear Hasbeen,

It's not only gays who use their various orifices and appendages in "imaginative" ways - not everyone is a "traditionalist," so to speak.
And how people have sex - is frankly none of our business. Enjoy your sex life and let them enjoy theirs - as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

As for Mr Abbott and his budgie smugglers. He's welcomed to them and lycra. If that's all you've got - by all means flaunt it. Fitness is something to be admired. However, we need more than just fitness in our PM. We need policies that make sense and so far Mr Abott lacks a lot in that department. So for now we're happy for him to get on his bike and ride - and keep on riding until he can come up with better ideas than what he's been offering to date - which is so yesterday. And of course there's also other qualities that are necessary - things like - initiative, genuine leadership (not just forcing the same mantra and party line that everyone party-member must wear). Things like - negotiating ability (begging, bribery, and intimadation doesn't count), willingness to take risks (inaction doesn't count either), and did I mention - persuasivenss - these areas need lots of improvement for Mr Abbott - perhaps you could persuade him to get off that bike, give up his budgie smugglers - and get on with the serious job of showing people he can actually achieve positive for this country - by following the example of past Liberal leaders (Howard excluded).

WE don't have to make a joke of Mr Abbott, as well-known cartoonists have mentioned, "We couldn't make this stuff up!" He's doing a great job all by himself.

Individual I fear for you!
If they tax your out puts my Friend it will be a large bill.

Belly,
Just pray they don't dream up a tax for atrocious spelling. btw. don't you have anything to remark on re the cattle fiasco created by your alternative gender mob mates ?

Aquarius,

The Australian Graduate School of Management, Sydney University, offers “Leadership and Decision Making”

It starts with “to be a leader, you must have followers”.

To get people to follow, you need to clearly articulate where it is you are going, how you will get there, what you need from your followers, how they will benefit, what price they will have to pay, shared goals and objectives and a time frame. From the leader there is a need for clarity, consistency, conviction, determination, skills to get you there and credibility.

Leadership- are we losing it? In the political industry I think we are losing it. But we can always blame the “followers”

Lexi at present the leading being done in Canberra is all by Brown.

He has a ring in little Julia's nose, & she is obediently following Brown where ever he leads.

Hell, I'm sure she looked across at him & waged her tail looking for approval the other day, after some more damn fool rubbish she spouted.

Hasbeen

Brown leading Gillard by nose?

NOT:

Gay marriage; Gillard claims she does not support gay marriage

Malayasian refugee swap; Talks still going ahead, in spite of appalling treatment of refugees

Processing Boat people in Australia; Not a whisper from Gillard government even though this is cheapest most effective solution.

Increase taxes on mining super profits; Not a peep out of Gillard.

Brown leading Gillard by the nose?

Is that what's called "Brown-nosing?"

Let's talk about "brown-nosing." - If you want to talk about serious "Brown-nosing," you only have to look at which political leader "brown-noses," the tobacco companies, the mining industry, the Corporate elite, the
polluters, and all the 3% of the top earners in this country to whom tax cuts and subsidies are granted hand over fist - while the rest of us fear for all the cut-backs that will inevitably take place
(because this guy's determined to cut back on what he calls "non-essential spending), employment will increase and essential services
will be greatly reduced.

OK answers to some questions, Individual, I can not spell, you heard the story.
Eldest of a very big family I worked first school second.
Like a whole generation was working, and hard full time by 13, you however, just informing you, not taunting, have trouble thinking.
Aquarius, sorry greens are my enemy's forever, Brown is what us bushys call a case, he is learning to deal, and about time.
Bob Carr, on Radio National, today, said Labor can not fix the boat people problem.
He admitted 70% of us want them stopped.
Now Howard won an election understanding that.
I first thought my dysfunctional leader[forever the wrong person to lead]was wrong.
SHE IS NOT! Malaysian solution is going to work, it will stop the boats, be approved by the UN it will open Malaysia to UN refugee groups.
And many more refugees will be rescued from years in camps, sidelined by unfocused and uncaring bleeding hearts who want to reduce majority's right to be heard.
Hasbeen, rubbish!
You do your self a miss service in a post above, you in answer to RObert said the editorial in Australia's best newspaper.
The Sydney Morning Herald, by its political editor was ALP propaganda.
Showing you looked at about one line then went away.
It is the best bit of political journalism I have read this year.
Balanced and quite honest, it if you bothered to read it took to both sides equally and honestly.