I am suggesting WA be halved above the Geraldton town, and the top half of the state become a territory, controlled by federal govt;
WA is far to large an area to be controlled by a small population base.
Infrastructure is lacking badly in the north of that state, thousands of km's without communication, water, or services of any kind. Iron ore is far to valuable to be controlled by a southern city that cannot control itself.
Costs are out of control in the north of the state, with everyday food items. Frozen bread $5.50 / loaf. Diesel $2.12 / lt Milk $2.00 / lt
This part of the state would be better serviced by being a territory, controlled by Canberra.

Better if WA secedes from the East. Canberra is totally out
of touch with WA and their record is hardly one of knowing what
they are doing. If WA could actually keep the GST which is
collected here, rather then just be a cash cow for the East,
all would be well.

I'd even advocate NSW splitting into a few states (Sydney, Woolongong, Blue Mtns, Central Coast, Inland NSW, South Coast- far too many different areas for a singular mob of politicians (with loyalties to only one of these areas) to govern effectively.

How Western Australia could manage without it is anyone's guess.

the so-called two/speed ecomony..is more like a mountain bike
[with 12 speeds]..especially when it comes to state debt

think qld OWES...65 billion today
by 2015 it will be 85 billion

all the states are too big
[even a few cities]...thing is
these big entities are white elephants
ALL OF THEM ..must be scaled down...not just a bit

the current validation documents..[constitutions]
are invalid...governance is a joke
[qld upper house voted itself out of egsistance]..

thats not only UN-constitutional...its criminal

we got to schools to vote
so lets..*re organise arround school districts
all govt and govt services CENTER arround schools
run locally...acting collectivly..

[each underwriting a federal fun-ding agency..
with a share of their income...that insures each citisen
that pays tax...for all their disaster fixes]

school/authority..can act premptivly
if say a home or a car..is in need of repair
the repair is done..and the debt incured in fixing it
is paid off/...in lue of the current statist/revenue raising..

that sees you getting two thousand in fines..
[for forgetting..[or being unable to scrape up
the rapidly inflating costs..of rego insurance etc]
AND THEN having the exta costs..ON TOP OF FINES..or paying the rego

much better if caught
that the cop...sends a bill..[in lue of a fine]
for the cost of repair...or other

think of a car unroadworthy
if its a tyre...a contracter replaces the tyre
and you owe this debt..[a real debt..not a entrapment fine/threat]

if the car is too expensive to repair
THE COP..can order you another car...

that gets paid for WITH THE TICKET..
[that is then a loan..that gets repaid..iNTREST free]

we got too many faulse gods
many big fish in too small/a ponds..

so no more big fish..
that..we cant cut off at their knees[locally]
if they get too greedy
for their own good

but especially to our worse

I am with Yabby on this one. WA is by far the most financially successful state and should be allowed to secede from the other states and territories.

a597 thinks WA lacks in infrastructure in our North, and thus should come under Canberra's umbrella.
What about the Northern Territory a597? How's the infrastructure there?
I have lived there as well as in WA and I would hate to see WA run by the same inept crowd that runs the Territory!

I would hate to see Canberra anywhere near WA, north or south!

Yabby before a bloke called Alan, and another called Lang WA rode on the easts back.
Now few easterners know, it rides a horse out of Bigotry by a mare called Inferiority complex.
That strong young colt is named XENOPHOBIA.
I care not want you do, think if you leave you should not keep the word Australia in your name.
Lets call it SELF INTEREST LAND.
I have loved every place I even saw in this great country you live in a wonderful place.
But like Queensland it has always been that some want to cut the state in to two parts.
If some Australian pride exists in the land of self interest this wise man from the east[ a deliberate slur thrown at any one from Eastern Australia]
Then yes let Western Australians split or not split but the truth is you can not prosper by insulting this country, in this matter you should be ashamed of your self.

Belly, WA has some great horses, like one called CAN DO, another
called MAKE IT HAPPEN. The Eastern States nags on the track
are RIP OFF, MILKING COW and CANBERRA, who frankly should all
have been sent to the knackery some time ago. Now you enter
a new nag called LUDWIG, which is seemingly doing little but
dig holes in the track.

If you blokes have nothing but such useless nags holding up the
race, best we build our own race course.

Hmmmm,

Matching wits with a cicilian when death is on the line

*or*

Starting a land-war in Australasia?

Anybody up for dread pirate Rogers?

Rusty

Yabby, the GST issue I can understand is a hot one. I am certainly in favour of how the GST is distributed being revisited. That said in the past the West has gained more from the Federal purse than it has contributed. Its a little rich now to turn around and not want to support the other states the same way as it was once supported. If China collapses there might yet be a change in your situation (crystal ball anyone?). I get the point because NSW is also a net loser in the GST stakes and has been right from the start. However the allocation pie is a complex one, and one that is independtly advised on. Perhaps WA needs to ensure that some of the representatives on the independent review board are from WA.

As for the northern section being governed by Canberra, I would strongly advise against such foolish suggestions. They cant even run their own little territory in the south east. Dont go there!

The price of fuel, milk, bread etc is generally relative to two things - demand (how many people want a product and what alternatives they have), and supply (including cost of getting the goods there). Given that I am paying $1.60 for fuel in NSW I dont think paying $2.12 in a remote area is unreasonable. Likewise I pay >$4 for a loaf of bread - the markup is not that significant. You also get tax breaks for living in a remote area, whereas I dont (if you need more help here I can recommend a good accountant lol).

Country Gal, you really have to live over here to see how WA
is treated as a second class citizen, for a number of reasons.

Firstly, simply the tyranny of distance. Secondly the unique
economy here. WA has always been an export focussed state, because
we have a small population. With 10% of the population we produce
half the exports. But that means we have to compete in the real
world. For decades WA had to rely on global markets, but had
to buy overpriced and highly protected inputs from the East at
huge expense. So far more money ever went your way, then came
back here.

The State covers a third of the country, so delivering services
is hugely expensive. Now alot of extra infrastructure needs building
because of new mining projects. That needs funding. We then see
how Canberra pees money up against walls and we keep sending over
more money for them to do so. Frankly we'd cope very well without
Canberra.

There was a report in the paper about a week ago, of Twiggy Forrest
challenging Swan about mining taxes. Swan seemingly replied that if
he didn't like it, WA should secede. IMHO WA should take him up on
that and shake them up a bit, for frankly we could do quite easily
without Canberra but I doubt how well they'd do with half their
export income lost.

WA deserves a better deal, but you need to live here to realise
just how much the State is shafted by Eastern politicians.
I can tell you, right now there is some bad blood over here about
the Indonesia fiasco. WA is of course most affected, along with
the NT

I thought/think the idea of Canberra running the top end stupid.
Think we should give the NT statehood while continuing to prop it up.
Like me or loath me but I find a bloke I share most values with shameful here yabby.
LOOK know, it is true, WA for a century has called us, the rest of this country, wise men from the East, with intent and scorn.
Half a century ago, a bit more, an old battered car,just having broken records driving from east to west coasts.
It tyers filled with grass after no more repairs could be made received that welcome, and the term lier's screamed at them.
It is true! startling but true! we are disliked by many maybe most.
And it sickens me.
Only WA can say what they want,current leadership says he wants to be closer to China than Canberra.
If they want to go , then defend them selves, find a name other than Australia put up boarder crossing but leave us as one country without need to insult each other.
In Wallervile QLD 45 years ago I met this syndrome, was told every NSW traveler was a lier and a thief on the run.
That gentleman was dressed in bib and brace overalls and had last washed them some years before.

Yabby, I have cousins that I grew up with on the farm that moved West (and farm) probably 15-20 years ago. My sister and brother-in-law also live in WA (working in mining). I visit when I can. I do have some idea of the distances and infrastructure requirements. I am off a farm, so I get your point about export markets.

However Canberra is a distinct waste of time and money for all of us, WA is not the only one to suffer from being milked then ignored. Much better that all regions apart from the coastal fringe sack Canberra methinks!

There is an issue in the cities in the east that shows a lack of understanding about the west. Had a chat with a shopowner and her assistant whilst I was dropping my sister back to the airport and just about had to pick my jaw up off the floor. The shopowner ws busy telling us that someone in her family had moved to WA and hated how isolated it was. She oculdnt remember the name of the little place they lived - thought it might have been Fremantle!! (and sadly the other things that she ws able to tell me confirmed that she got the name right). Maybe it is just us country folk that bother having a look at the map!

I lived in WA for a couple of years in the 1970s, and even then was somewhat bemused at Lang Hancock's "Westralian Secession Movement" and the constant bagging of the "E.S." (Eastern States) in what passed for their daily newspaper. I doubt that WA would be viable as an independent state, but I can see no real reason why they shouldn't if, for example, they could demonstrate 2/3 of the electorate support secession.

Having said that, I've long thought that all Australian states and local councils should be abolished, in favour of a new National structure based around enhanced regional governments, thus abolishing one level of government entirely. Such a system would be less wasteful, would be more representative and would dispense with the main justification for secession in one fell swoop.

*There is an issue in the cities in the east that shows a lack of understanding about the west.*

Country Gal, you are quite correct. I've heard plenty of eastern
disparaging comments about WA, because people simply don't know
anything about the place. Meantime people like yourself would
fit in well here :)

I firmly believe that smaller democracies work better then large
ones. The larger the ivory towers, the less in touch with the
population are the bureaucrats. In America little gets done unless
there is a national disaster. The EU and its adminstration are a
scandal and I would not be surprised if their growing financial
crisis blows them apart.

Belly I know you love your party machine, but frankly bloke, tell
me what they actually do that is useful and could not be better done
at the regional level, where the locals could make their own
decisions.

Yep.

"Federation was a really bad idea"

Discuss.

*find a name other than Australia*

Err Belly, AFAIK since before federation, this place was called
Western Australia. No need to find a name, we have a name.

You don't even notice the arrogant big brother from the East
approach. If WA seceded, the name would be our business, not
your business. Now tell me what your party machine does that
is actually useful and that we could not do better ourselves.

BTW don't even try to justify the 3 planes and a couple of subs
that are commonly broken down as a good reason. For in a war
the West would quickly be abandoned to defend the East, where
all the power junkies live.

WA has every right to complain about being treated as a second
class citizen, just there to me milked

There, there Yabby, the nasty easterners will stop picking on you. Just go and count your sheep, there's a good boy.

Should WA remain one big state?

There are many reasons why that may not be sensible or practical. If we look at examples around the world there are cities, countries, and the state of California in the US with populations equal to or greater than the whole of Australia.

In recent years there have been suggestions made in political circles to eliminate state governments thus eliminating duplication and having one central government in Canberra.

In Melbourne under the Liberal leadership of Kennett an attempt was made to minimise the rule of Municipal Councils by amalgamating them into larger districts with no detrimental effect.

When it comes to funding of states and building of infrastructure, frequently friction arises between state and federal governments with the result that states prefer to concentrate their funding on their centres of government.

Splitting up Western Australia would only accentuate the problem and be of no benefit. We do see states with larger populations being favoured for greater funding and attention but that's only natural because they are states that determine the political outcome.

Ammonite, nasty is never the problem, but stupidity sure is, as
your post shows. But then economics is not your strong point, I
know and your posts reflect it. Perhaps better to shut up then
make an even bigger fool of yourself.

yabby you can not support a case every snide remark, [and I have never heard one] from the other Australians equals one days out put from WA.
Canberra is a poor reason.
In truth you want to keep your Lolly's to your self.
Rave on my friend see you on a less self centered thread.
I in truth still can not see why we even considered a take over of part of WA by anyone.

Hells bells, Belly,

What have you got against dear old WA...it's a great place to live. Personally, I can't see why anybody in the modern era would feel isolated living here. It's as Australian as anywhere else...maaate

Actually Belly, its the empathy I feel for the hardworking
West Australian men and women up north, who have just had all that
they have worked for destroyed by one Canberra decision. It is
not you to stand to lose everything. These people are salt of
the earth, they work, they don't stand around on union awards
or sit in offices, staring out the windows, on big salaries.

West Australia always has been an export focussed state, Canberra
simply does not understand our perspective. Nor does it seem to
care. The party machine clearly matters more then the livelyhood
of thousands.

We need people to make economic decisions about WA, who actually
understand our part of the world. They are not the Bob Browns,
let him do what he likes in Tassie.

The way that many of you in the East behave, the only thing that
you want from WA is the money. Well perhaps its time that things
changed and that WA stood up for itself.

http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/4bc-blog/cattle-ban--lack-of-wisdom/20110629-1gpup.html

Belly, take the time to listen to this radio interview with the
Marlee Ranacher, the daughter of Sarah Henderson of Bulla River
Station. This is what your party machine is responsible for,
out there in the real world.

Sudden decision in such a short time;
Some of these stations want removing all together. Hundreds of people every day travel through WA in pure dismay at not being able to access anything. River systems are on private land, 80 mile beach is on private land, with one access. I don,t know how anyone can control 80 miles of beach front. If you don,t book in to the caravan park at the bottom of the road, you don,t get to see the beach. All of WA outside coastal towns is just a highway drive, supplied by federal funds. The whole northern half of the state wants opening up. The traditional owners of the Kimberly have given permission for mining to go ahead. There is one access road into the northern Kimberly [still dirt] and impassable. All the people of WA see is the southern part of the state.

597, you make my point for me. Its not federal funding that builds
roads, but money sent east from WA. We want more of it back.

Its a huge and young state, its got enormous infrastructure
costs and challenges that other states don't have. Its going to
take alot of funds to do all that. Yet every time that WA is
paid more mineral royalties, the amount of GST returned is cut.

At the moment we get back around 60c in the Dollar, but with the
present calculation methods its heading for 30c in the Dollar.

Frankly we'd be better off keeping all our funds here and making
our own economic decisions, if the East shows such little
interest in what we do, other then provide money to them.

Mining is funded by subs from out of the pockets of the public.
If WA broke away they would have to do without their share of that 11 billion $ paid by the tax payers.

Then WA might be more interested to look at the 50 billion $ going off shore and too much off shore ownership. Some is good i agree but not complete control.

NT or WA its never going to happen. Others have tried up the top to turn it into an Islamic state.

Australia is made up of many states WA being one of them.

The subs paid to mining are not sustainable . WA needs to look a little closer at this false economy like the rest of us & they are not the only ones Canberra ignore.

Gertrude, not paying roadtax on fuel for machinery that does not
drive on roads is not a sub, even if some calculate it that way.
The mining industry contributes 10s of billions of $ to the
Govt coffers. Without it, the Australian economy would collapse.

West Australian mining alone generates over 2 billion $ a week.
They pay taxes and wages here, they buy inputs, they invest in
new projects.

If you or Bob Brown want even more from the mining industry, you
are free to risk your life savings on holes in the ground and
see how you go.

West Australian mining and the West Australian economy would
thrive without the Eastern States. We really need you far less
then you need us.

I'd vote for secession tomorrow if given the chance. Ludwig and
his imcompetence are really the straw that broke the camel's back.

Yabby,
On that we agree! His office staff in a week did not get back re the two gentleman going to Indonesian.
Called - they said they had the message & would call back within the hour - very rude! No call.
Called back at 3.30 pm to ask why not. Said they couldn't find the message ( urgent message) send to Ludwig's office but yet they told me last week they had it & AGAIN this morning. ( Very funny business imop going on their with his staff- probably MLA friends.

What they didnt know until 4.30 pm I have faxed every stuff up to Julie Gillards private assistant. They have the two gentleman's names and are passing the message on to her.
They are furious about it I hope his staff are sacked.

Problem is it might be too late now--

No wonder why its such as mess with absolute rude @ heads that work in his office

On the mines- all I know is the industry enjoys subs from the pocket of the tax payer & u would have to wonder why these wealthy guys would need it- thats all.

Most people dont realise they are paying these companies 11 billion in tax $

I would like to see mining expand in NT- Give some of these. er, farmers a way out the door TBO
Cheer

Yabby,

As u raised it on this thread I listened to another crying cattle breeder. They are a few problems with her claims

A That our cattle dont go to the other 700 plants BULL]

B They have known how these animals have been treated for years & years 7 NOTHING excuses to breed for that market.

c 6 plants sort of up to scratch & if the 4 or six could process them - then we would not have a problem

D The industry itself admitted they require at least 25 to be brought up to some sort of standard.

E Shes wrong about Indonesia or telling fibs (only now) looking to deal elsewhere because Indonesia informed us 6 MONTHS ago they were cutting back the live cattle by 75%

F Its very possible nobody told the farmers but they told Ikebal that months ago! He even went over.

Fuel will have to be sent to operate the pumps and they should of started trucking them south the day the ban was introduced- but instead sat on their hands demanding to ship em anyway to such a cruel end.

Now Pakistan has been in deals with them ( or talks) for about 2 years-! so u would wonder why AA moved now.

However- if it comes to a bullet in the head than its still kinder to the animals. I will leave u with your WA thread now in peace.

See u on another thread.

PS there is NO DOUBT Ludwigs staff & MLA have stuffed things up because if WE KNEW about the 75% drop in intake & the Pakistan deal why didnt they?

Bloody useless imop.

http://www.watoday.com.au/opinion/politics/does-the-stroppy-state-really-want-to-secede-20110705-1gzqu.html
While the thread slumbers I found this in a WA paper of interest so here it is.