Why do some people believe that constant boasting about themselves impresses others?

I was reading the following:

http://www.helium.com/items/1439225-why-do-people-brag-about-themselves

"People who brag about themselves are so annoying because, although we all understand that being positive is a good thing, tooting your own trumpet so loudly that no one else can hear themselves think is unbecoming. We also feel annoyed when we come across a consistent bragger because most of us know that people who need to bolster their esteem at the expense of others on a regular basis are generally insecure.

We are then left to deal with mixed feelings of our own. On the one hand the bragger is so self concerned that we want little to do with them. On the other hand we may feel sorry for them, knowing that they probably really have a low sense of self esteem, despite the bragging which is an attempt to cover this up....

..... At the end of the day, when faced with a person who brags, we are in an almost impossible position that is difficult to get out of. We have our own needs, which will be overlooked by the bragger, and may find having to put up with the bragging fairly intolerable.

The fact is that a conversation is by rights a two way street, where each person takes a turn at listening and talking. A real conversation gives equal power to both parties involved in a normal, everyday situation. Braggers don't tend to indulge in the unspoken rules which govern two way conversation.....

...... If you dare mention anything about yourself which you are proud of, the bragger is highly likely to attempt one oneupmanship, and so to make light of your own achievements."

How do we get the point across that we are not impressed, if anything we tend to see the braggart as over compensating for some lack in themselves?

Is there any situation when it is appropriate to imply that one is superior to others? Is this reasonable on a public forum?

Whatever the reason, how to get them to stop?

'cause if we didn't tell them, some people may never realise how lucky they were to meet us.

Yes, there's a bit of it about, isn't there? Over at the Punch they had an article on the FIGJAM phenomenon, except that the kind of oaf you're describing doesn't wait to be asked. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I was always taught that modesty is a virtue, and I've learnt from experience empty vessels tend to make the most noise. Unfortunately, braggers don't tend to notice other people's disdain of them, so ultimately I think the best strategy is to simply ignore them where possible.

I recall some bush wisdom that I picked up somewhere along the track, that seems to fit here: the broader the brim, the smaller the spread. For that reason I tend to avoid conspicuous consumers who advertise their apparent success with 10-gallon hats, obvious jewellery, expensive cars, trophy partners etc. They are always full of themselves and inevitably boring, but fortunately very easy to spot!

Dear Ammonite,

Why do people brag about themselves? There could be many reasons. Depending on cultural background, education, peer-group influence, competitiveness. Competition is part and parcel of a capitalist society. Try writing a CV when looking for a job - and down playing your qualifications and experience and see how far that gets you.

We seem to live in a society where the only constant is change - and
although I too grew up being taught not to brag. Today, people are encouraged to talk about their achievements, to have confidence in themselves, and the attitude seems to be, "If you don't think you're any good, why should we?" Hence the push of the "Me" complex.

I'll be interested to read what others have to say on this subject.

cont'd ...

here's a website that supports one of the points that I was trying to make:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/self-praise-conroys-preferred-approach/story-e6freuzi-1226072668264

I am aware of the extremes you speak of Ammonite.
And just as annoyed as you by it.
Such rabid attempts to impress have the opposite effects on most of us.
But in a way, we all self promote.
I have trouble putting it in to words,but once launched a thread ,about phony/fake people.
If you watch our body's talk, they do, our every movement shows.
You will see in a crowded room or just one on one almost every one presents some one just a little unlike them selves to the world
Human nature? yes maybe we can not avoid it.
I however have been inflicted with your description ,such a person ,now dead, had in his mind the best of every thing even including his clapped out old lawn mower.

Thanks for the responses.

I agree in self promotion for a job - I get to do that a lot when auditioning and treat it as fun - a way to get outside myself. I am normally a quiet observant type (like you Lexi raised to be modest) but I have a lot of fun doing improvisation and a completely different person can emerge.

For the topic the person I was referring to is the type who actually believe that boasting of materials possessions or superiority in a field or mental acuity is an indication of confidence.

A truly confident person does not need to brag. I am not saying I don't enjoy attention, but any compliments I receive are truly when completely unexpected.

Another example of what I mean is the difference between confidence and arrogance. Here is some info:

"1. Confidence vs arrogance both involve believing in one’s abilities.

A person who is confident understands they have certain areas of strength. A person who is arrogant also believes that have certain areas of strength.

A person with confidence will also understand others maybe stronger, and that each person is a complete package of strengths and weaknesses so will remain humble in both. An arrogant person will often neglect to acknowledge weakness in light of playing up the strengths.

2. Confidence vs arrogance often stem from two different roots.

Arrogance is often underplayed by insecurity. An arrogant person tends to be arrogant to compensate for areas of weakness that distress the individual.

An arrogant person may seem to ignore any areas of weakness and only play up areas of strength, but they often do so because of an inability to come to terms with weakness. A confident person finds the root of their confidence in self acceptance - a key confidence vs arrogance difference.

A confident person accepts their weaknesses or faults, even though they may not like them. This acceptance enables the confident person to handle faults with grace and without further compacting the areas of weakness with arrogance. These are key points when understanding confidence vs arrogance."

Cont'd

"3. The effects of confidence vs arrogance on relationships clearly mark the difference between the two characteristics. An arrogant person tends to brag and can put others down in an attempt to be the best or come out the coolest.

A confident person is above such antics. They recognize their strengths and weaknesses, and allow that other people will have strengths and weaknesses. A confident person need not make life a competition, so a confident person is often much easier to be around.

An arrogant person can be cocky and difficult to reason with, making conversation difficult and bothersome."

This type of behaviour is a conversation stopper, on Online Opinion it is a waste of time. Instead of holding an interesting discussion we find ourselves at worst, wanting to vomit at the unbelievable boasts or if we try to remonstrate are told we are jealous.

Now a positive effect can be resultant laughter, but in hyperspace no-one can hear you laugh.

The boastful person remains blissfully(?) unaware that values they think are worthy of respect are not those of others. For example Donald Trump's values would be completely (almost) opposite to those of the Dalai Lama or even a school teacher or nurse.

This is a very interesting subject, and boasting is something we all do on the odd occasion - and it's always to enhance ourselves in the eyes of others, which in turn makes us feel valued.

If we look at it from societal angle, the "middle-class" didn't waste anytime trying to ape the conspicuous and grandiose expression of the upper classes. With the rise of industry and trade, there came this broad class, full of nit-picking insecurities, desperate to prove themselves and emulate their "superiors". The Victorians achieved it by filling their houses with all kinds of material kitsch and tat - anything that implicitly implied that they had "made it". There's a great classic titled "Diary of a Nobody" that fictionalises the great British middle-class aspirant of that time.

Margaret Thatcher is another great example of middle-class "arrogance and boastfulness". Her droning pomposity is most notable for the total absence of any kind of "wit". (reminds me of a braggart I've col-lided with recently, whose name escapes me at present).

So while bragging is a general human foible, when regularly encountered, it's a particularly ingratiating and irritating habit of those who seek approval from the world at large in place of self-affirmation.

'This is a very interesting subject, '

Well, more interesting is the motivations of a person who would get themselves in such a tizz about such things, or feels they need supporters in scoring some kind of point against our Col (for one, I assume) and maybe myself if I was to ever consider that people don't find me the pinnacle of humility.

It strikes me as childish in the extreme.

'So while bragging is a general human foible, when regularly encountered, it's a particularly ingratiating and irritating habit of those who seek approval from the world at large in place of self-affirmation.'

When regularly encountered it could also be appreciated by intelligent, in-tune and more mature and worldly individuals as a playful tongue-in-cheek indulgence that just has the added bonus of riling up the insecure and immature.

I think I know who's seeking approval and passive-aggressively appealing for supporters rather than being an adult and dealing with people as they come.

'A truly confident person does not need to brag.'
And a truly confident person would not have behaved like this; A backhanded cry to the teacher and appeal for support from the 'good' people whoa aren't like 'those people'.

'If you dare mention anything about yourself which you are proud of, the bragger is highly likely to attempt one oneupmanship, and so to make light of your own achievements.'
This is self-contradictory, as if this is so upsetting, then by definition you are just as much a bragger and no doubt even more insecure than the original bragger.

'Whatever the reason, how to get them to stop?'
What gives one the arrogance to think that they should control the actions of another because of their own discomfort or belief that their own perceptions of that person are central to the world.

Anyway, it's an interesting insight into the thread author. It says a lot.

Why do People Brag About Themselves?...lol...Online opinion just shines with people who dont mind bragging about how intelligent they are by showing off their analyzing skills, to everyone on the NET:) talk about putting yourself under your own microscopic analysts:) for a person just to be on-line shows the point your trying to make.

Its all starts at birth......

Should be a great thread....Ammonite, the human mind is indeed an interesting and thought provoking subject.

LEAP

One reason braggarts do not wake up to themselves is the sycophant:

"Sycophancy is as old as politics and power, as old as human social life. At least, the origin of the word goes as back as the 16th century, traced to the Latin sycophanta, from the Greek, sukophantes."

The original Greek adds a new dimension to suck-up doesn't it?

A sycophant will also defend their hero by denigrating any who have the temerity to point out that the emperor has no clothes. While they are entertaining to watch, without them Caesar would have wielded no power, Ghengis Kahn would've remained a mere horseman.

" No one likes the idea of being classified as a sycophant. Yet without question there are legions of followers who sing the praises of their favorite online voices without fail, all in hopes of garnering favor and being a part of the in-crowd. Entire businesses and social networks have been built on the back of the die-hard loyalist....

What’s different from being a crazed sports fan and a blind follower of your favorite voice online? Not much. In fact, the behavior patterns are very similar in nature. Sycophants are beyond fanatic sports fans. They do unmindful things such as propagating bad ideas, mimicking style rather than developing their own, and flash mobbing others, all to curry favor and feel a part of that favorite voice’s community."

Cheers

I'll pay that actually. Nice work. Sly. Entertaining. Dry.

Though nice side-step too. Actually smoke and mirrors all round, continuing the passive aggression nicely. 3 stars.

'who sing the praises of their favourite [sic] online voices without fail, all in hopes of garnering favour [sic] and being a part of the in-crowd.'

See, this is where your own perceptions, based on your own life motives and insecurities steer you in the wrong direction. Col has few supporters and many many detractors. If he wished to be part of an 'in-crowd', he would simply conform to the majority leftist self flagellation, and conduct himself in the way that others want him to. But, it is actually you who just cant fathom that Col and/or others really just don't care, so you can only relate to your own need to fit in.

'One reason braggarts do not wake up to themselves'

I think you need to do more waking up. You accuse the great Col of arrogance, yet decide that he should change his persona to suit you, based on your perceptions of him. Why do you arrogantly assume Col is not awake? Because everyone should conduct themselves to please you or to avert your unfavourable perceptions of their behaviour? Haha. I have found the centre of the universe, it's name is Ammonite.

If you don't feel you can address Col directly, or need to garner some support, or to pigeon hole him so as to attack a generic 'other' in such a roundabout way, that's ok. Just know that you're not fooling anyone, except perhaps yourself.

Houellie,

Actually, I think you might be right on that point.

Must say I've been a little entertained by Col's ruminations on his own grandiosity...but, by the same token, he does invite us all to have a go at him.

He'd make a good character in a Dickens novel...something along the lines of Mr Earnest le Uphimself.

Houllebecq

You are free to choose those you admire, as am I.

I could be describing many people who post here or on other blogs.
That you have responded to my thread suggests that you identify with much of what I have said.

BTW "favour" is perfectly acceptable spelling in Australia, the USA tends to 'favor' the eliminate of the vowel 'u'. Nice try, but no cigars.

As for not naming specific individuals, I have merely presented information regarding the narcissistic personality. I do not need to name anyone. You are free to believe whatever you like.

You may find the following of interest:

"Someone with Narcissistic Personality disorder (NPD) has at least 5 of these symptoms:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

4. requires excessive admiration

5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes"

http://www.narcissism101.com/

:P

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance

Like wanting others to 'get them to stop' other people implying they are superior to others, while paradoxically in this very statement implying you are superior due to an absence of this 'flaw'?

2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

Or a career in acting or pretensions of being a part of 'the arts'?

3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

Like thinking only women can have an opinion on women?

4. requires excessive admiration

Like wanting affirmation on OLO?

5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

Like not accepting decisions on moderation? Ah, So difficult.

6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

Like rallying a mob against a poster one doesn't like or victim positioning in DV threads. ie 'Don't silence me'!?

7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

Like not recognising the feelings of posters who are proud of their wife and financial and career achievements, or empathising with poor r0bert who needs affirmation so much?

8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

Like thinking moderation decisions are all unfair and that the moderator is out to get you?

9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes"

Like thinking people should change to suit you, and that you have accurately assigned motives to others you barely know?

Dear Ammonite,

From what I'm reading here it seems to me that our behaviour and personalities seem to depend so much on the content of our individual socialization, what becomes of human free will? Do we have any choice over our personal behaviour, or is it all shaped for us by our past
experiences? Can socialization completely wipe out any basic personality traits with which we are born?

Let's see...

An individual is pushed this way and that and constantly has to make personal judgements and decisions in unanticipated situations. Do our personal histories strongly influence our choices of action? I suppose I'd have to say - of course. That's why courts are often willing to take an offender's past background into account before passing sentence, particularly when dealing with juveniles. But also as in practice the courts, like the rest of society, always insist at some point that people (unless they are mentally disordered) are capable of choosing courses of action and "reforming" their personalities.

We hold people responsible for their behaviour precisely because they
can exercise choice - particularly moral choice - over what they do.

For whatever reasons, everyone violates social norms at some time or another, often in novel and sometimes socially disapproved ways.
Hearing a "different drummer," we do not keep pace with our companions.

I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that - within the very broad limits provided by our place in history and society, we are free to fabricate ourselves and our behaviour as we wish - particularly if we understand the social process through which we became what we are. It's our choice.

We are venturing into nature versus nurture, although most anthropologists, psychiatrists and others acknowledge degrees of influence of both these days.

We are the sum of our past experiences. Try as we may we cannot completely remain objective.

Houllebecq has provided an excellent example with his last post, his perceptions are that I am trying to tell others how to behave. He is free to think that. All I have provided is information from a variety of professional sources and brought them together and his response is really interesting - thanks Houllebecq.

I would posit that the sycophant is in a symbiotic relationship with the narcissist. And I am not alone:

"We also live in denial about the part we play in the creation of the narcissist and the perpetuation of his or her behavior. Far too often the people drawn into the narcissist’s force field enable, condone and tolerate the negative and destructive behavior of the narcissist. We absolve ourselves by saying we are doing it for the greater good, or by apologizing for the narcissist’s behavior. Often we take responsibility for the damage caused to other’s psyches by the narcissist. If truth be known, we do it because we are afraid. We don’t want to wound the highly sensitive narcissist because we will pay dearly for this narcissistic injury. We don’t want to be tossed out of the narcissist’s orbit for speaking up, for disagreeing or challenging the narcissist because what we get from the narcissist fuels our own needs.

I have a theory about why this is. From my life experience, I have come to believe that sycophants fuel narcissists and enable them to exist and even thrive. I am sure this isn’t a new or novel idea on my part. In fact, it is probably overly simplistic."

http://ljgc.wordpress.com/2009/07/29/narcissists-and-sycophants-a-marriage-made-in-hell/

'Whatever the reason, how to get them to stop?'

Dear Ammonite,

I was curious so I looked up "Narcissist" on the web. I discovered that there's a mental disorder called the NPD (Narcisstic Personality Disorder). And the common behaviours of this disorder are as follows:

1) "Me versus You" mentality.
2) Competitiveness.
3) "Tit for tat" retaliations.
4) Abusive verbal behaviour when angered and insecure.
5) Inappropriate and inapplicable language in front of
women and children.
6) Glorifies and falsifies achievements - past and present.
7) Extremely sensitive to criticism.
8) Pathological lying.
9) Disdain for rules, regulations, decency, morality.
10) Very little consideration for how behaviour affects others.
11) Capable of sexually degrading name calling.
12) Gross failure to apologise or have sympathy.
13) Uses allies real or imagined to back up claims and arguments.
14) Little (if any) sense of conscience.
15) Will "attack" when confronted or questioned.

And the list goes on.

This is a pretty serious disorder and only a medical professional could tell whether one is suffering from it or not. As I said the list
of symptoms is quite lengthy and quite frightening.

Because these people are insecure. They want to fit in. They want to create an impression that they're rich or pretty or popular or all of the above.

Ah if I were vain, I would think this post was about me, like the song….

Supposedly about Warren Beatty. Who, lets face it, was a good looking hunk and responsible for many a dripping wet panty shield.

I do find it puerile that some of the “little people” find that when I simply state facts…. It Is contrived to be bragging

Fact, my wife is a show-pony… (‘Barbie Doll’ as she is known in one circle). Fact, she does have an IQ of 170 and she married me because, despite the obvious differences, I am her “mirror”

So when the “lightening wits” write things like

“Competition is part and parcel of a capitalist society.”

I ask what the hell has “capitalism” got to do with it ?

“competition” is just as an important part of a “collectivist” society.

Certainly Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin were most competitive (especially Stalin, who ensured his competition were killed off), so too, arrogance personified, the dismissed Whitlam.

Hawke had his competitive moments, just ask Bill Hayden but I was thinking especially of Hawke competing with Keating…

Krudd and Gizzards.. they were competitive to the core… (I use the past tense because they are both washed has-beens)

But one difference to capitalism, on the collectivist agenda competition is accompanied by backstabbing and in some versions, mass murder

For “Collectivists” it is for them all about “power”.

Houelle – “Well, more interesting is the motivations of a person who would get themselves in such a tizz about such things, or feels they need supporters in scoring some kind of point against our Col “

I have no clue to their motivations, ask the thread originator, she seems to fixate on small things.

Poirot “but, by the same token, he does invite us all to have a go at him.”

Indeed, such manipulation - and so self excusing

Finally, Lexi, “narcissism” – just look in your own makeup mirror – you only find comfort in the illusion of “control” and that’s what irritates you:

I refuse to be controlled by the unworthies of the left

Dear Col R.,

Would you like some cheese and crackers to go with
that whine?

Hey Foxy, how about just typing out the whole book all at once and be done with it.

Say what you want about Col, at least he doesn't plagiarise, and has the imagination and intelligence not to regurgitate other people's quotes without attribution.

Strange behaviour from a Librarian.

Okay, Col, I've come to the conclusion that your posts entertain me more than they irritate me...so I'll give you permission to continue in the same vein. : )

Lexi,

I'm a tad curious about the book as well...did you once say you picked it up in a post office?

"Caustic Quips," compiled by Sally Barnes

Dear Poirot,

There's some marvellous putdowns available on the web.
A putdown for every occasion - not all of them are acknowledged,
but it doesn't matter. They're a serviceable substitute for wit as
other posters (old timers especially) have discovered. Anyway, all you have to do is Google the putdowns. I actually prefer the web to any books for insults. It's much faster and there's more of an amusing choice especially for "playful banter."

I have been thinking about Amanda Griffin's post:

>> Because these people are insecure. They want to fit in. They want to create an impression that they're rich or pretty or popular or all of the above. <<

This is the type of behaviour in which children indulge. In an effort to be accepted by their peers they will make up stories about themselves. Usually, by adulthood most people will have learned (often the hard way - because they couldn't prove anything) that slight embellishment can be entertaining, outright lies can be damaging for themselves and others.

Such as when people start to believe their own self-aggrandisement. One of the reasons I believe in limited number of terms for politicians is that the power tends to finally corrupt. It can be unfortunate, happening to once brilliant leaders. Bob Hawke started to believe his own hype. Howard most certainly did when he had unlimited power after 3 terms resulting in policies for which he had no mandate. Same thing happened to Margaret Thatcher, who had to be forced out in the end. The USA system tries to avoid this with limitations to 2 terms.

We are all gullible, some more than others at having our ego stroked. Some need it just to be able to participate in something as innocuous as posting on a blog-site. For the observer this can be very entertaining. However, for the target of the narcissistic type people can be hurt. And we have all seen the resultant behaviour when a narcissist is 'outed'. Not pretty.

I don't expect human beings to grow out of this behaviour any time soon. Not while there are those who applaud such behaviour and the braggart continues to get away with their claims. The narcissist will always want the last word, tell themselves they have won and are unlikely to change. As for their supporters, reflected glory is better than no glory at all.

What is important is that for the majority of people, who are reasonable, they are aware of these characteristics and not be fooled.

Some further reading may be found at a number of websites, such as the following:

http://tinyurl.com/loh52l

"Bragging and false autobiography - The narcissist brags. His speech is peppered with "I", "my", "myself", "mine" and other appropriating linguistic structures. He describes himself as intelligent, or rich, or modest, or intuitive, or creative - but always excessively and extraordinarily so. One is almost tempted to say, inhumanly so. His biography sounds implausibly rich and complex. His achievements - incommensurate with his age, education, or renown. His actual state always appears evidently and demonstrably incompatible with his claims. Very often, the narcissist lies or fantasises in a manner very easy to discern. He always name-drops.

Emotion-free language - The narcissist likes to talk about himself and only about himself. He is not interested in what others have to tell him about themselves. He might pretend to be interested - but this is only with a potential Source of Supply and in order to obtain said supply. He acts bored, disdainful, even angry, if he feels an intrusion and abuse of his precious time. In general, the narcissist is a very impatient person, easily bored, with strong attention deficits - unless and until he is the topic of discussion. One can discuss all aspects of the intimate life of a narcissist, providing the discourse is not "emotionally tinted". If asked to relate directly to his emotions, he intellectualises, rationalises, speaks about himself in the third person and in a detached "scientific" tone or writes a short story with a fictitious character in it, suspiciously autobiographical."

A certain amount of narcissism is seen as healthy for the individual and is part of our social make-up...it's only when the individual displays an exaggerated idea of their own importance in excessive self-promotion that NPD is suspected.

We all feel empowered when our worth is recognised by our social group, however, it's often more socially acceptable if we allow it to be ascertained without us resorting to blowing our own trumpets.

Poirot

Exactly.

Very well expressed, and I have, perhaps, been remiss in not acknowledging, at equal length, healthy self-regard/self confidence. Or would this be better served on another thread?

A confident self-assured person is a positive; someone comfortable in their own skin able to contribute freely to the well-being of others, the world would be a malign place without them. And fortunately, they are in the majority.

The same cannot be said about a self-obsessed person, which is what this topic is questioning. You may be interested in listening to Background Briefing on Sunday:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/backgroundbriefing/stories/2011/3243670.htm

I know nothing about this man, but am interested in what makes some people place so much importance on levels of power and money beyond what they require to live a more than comfortable existence.

My parents taught me that if you need to brag about yourself, you're probably not that good at what you're bragging about. It's the insecure who can't be humble. They seemed to feel that it's an unspoken inner strength that doesn't require the need for praise. That if you feel secure within yourself there's no need to brag. They were very "old school." Come to think of it so was my Scottish Headmistress (all girl's school) - who had the mantra "Always be a lady no matter where you are - for as a lady you'll obtain much and travel far!" Quaint - right? Her aim was that girls should be raised to "grace any social gathering."

Having said that though, we discovered an entirely different attitude that Americans had - when we lived and worked in Los Angeles for close to ten years. There the opposite was true. You had to "sell" yourself - and if you didn't then they suspected you "were'nt damn good!" So my husband and I had to totally re-adjust to a new mind set and act accordingly in order to survive. When we returned to Oz - we were thought to be totally abnoxious by our friends. It took us a while to return to what was considered "acceptable" in this country

cont'd ...

"You have to do a little bragging on yourself even to your
relatives-man doesn't get anywhere without advertising."
(John Nance Garner - American Vice President - 1868-1967).

But then there's:

"Tell me what you brag about and I'll tell you what
you lack."
(Spanish proverb).

To each his own. Cultures vary. However I do wonder about the difference between conceit and confidence?

Difference between conceit and confidence?

Col-lateral damage.

Dear bonmot,

Very clever.

Seriously though, basically It comes down to how you express yourself. If you make yourself sound as though you think you're better than others, that's conceited thinking. Confidence is a feeling of trust in one's self. Yes, I can get the job done.

You can exude confidence without over emphasising it. Much the same way you can be angry at someone while remaining respectful to them.
The art is learning how to express ourselves in ways that don't create confrontation and conceited people have difficulty with that.

Houlle “Col has few supporters and many many detractors.”

I have never worried about swimming against the current…

and have actively resisted being herded, in the fashion of the socialist sheep

I do welcome the company of “like minds” , I am married to one –

Whereas leftards find me objectionable and prefer the company of absent minds

These days I post on the UK Daily Telegraph, it has several things to commend it

1 the moderators are very liberal minded
2 the DT has a “recommend” option and my recommend rate is very strong… suggesting
3 I have found a school of like minds to swim with and who do appreciate those of my qualities which the leftards find intolerable

One problem, with more agreement, the UKDT lacks opportunity for “banter”

And ultimately…I post to amuse myself.

Any comfort or inspiration I give others is something I seek no credit for but which I am happy to freely distribute

and for those who find discomfort in what I may post-

See Rhett Butler’s final line to Scarlett in "Gone with the Wind"

Lexi “There's some marvellous putdowns available on the web.
A putdown for every occasion - not all of them are acknowledged,”

I did not know there were “marvelous putdowns” on the net

I have never needed to refer to them.

And I am surprised you needed to refer to them,

I am sure you must have listened to some excellent putdowns, said to your face.

However, I can think of no greater self-putdown

than admitting to awareness of “marvelous putdowns” on the net

“playful banter” – it seems you appreciate “playful banter” only when you are the “player” and not the playee….

Lexi and Ammonite, checkout narcissism –

http://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/malignant-self-love/narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd-definition/menu-id-1469/
“Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favorable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations”

The source of your irritation and the motive for this thread is

Col Rouge simply refuses to exhibit “automatic and full compliance with your expectations”

As Lexi said, “conceited people have difficulty with that”

Col R., has just confirmed things for us.
He's convinced that this thread is about him.

As a friend of mine stated
"the man seems to think that terms like "show pony"
or "trophy bride" are compliments and he compounds his
ignorance by confusing total household IQ with his
wife's. And the mental image
of him as Ken to his trophy bride as Barbie..."

Quite funny really.

It is interesting to compare some of the small differences in cultures - Australians by nature tend to avoid bragging, maybe something to do with our egalitarian, fight for the underdog tendencies. The British are similar, Americans are more likely to brag but usually it is in the sense of accomplishment rather than tickets on themselves. Real braggers are usually insecure as Poirot describes,no matter their cultural background.

One thing I have noticed over time is the tendency for sporting heroes to stretch out an arm or jump with joy when winning a swimming race or a match. In the olden days (:D) winning was done usually with more humility and less pomp and ceremony. Is this a bad thing? It probably doesn't really matter, the world has not fallen in as a result. Maybe it is part of the demise of manners in modern society. What do others think? Or am I just being an old prude?

I disagree with Houlley. Col does not have many detractors only people with whom he disagrees, that is not the same thing. There are just as many anti-Righties as anti-Lefties on OLO so it all balances out in the end.

Dear Pelly,

Well said.

I personally don't mind people bragging all that much, so long as it's true. If they are proud of something, I don't mind doing the service of listening and showing I'm impressed if I honestly am. But I have learnt from experience that people really don't care all that much what you've done.

"Is there any situation when it is appropriate to imply that one is superior to others? Is this reasonable on a public forum?"

It's reasonable in a job interview, and in putting forward any proposal that depends on the listener knowing about your merits, including against rivals in love, or in pitching for business where you are genuinely better than your competition.

But mostly people don't brag all that much, do they? I mean, my own fantasticity is obviously wonderful as I keep shouting from the housetops, but what bragging is there in OLO?

Peter Hume,

"...but what bragging is there on OLO"

You may have missed the drama, but Col came back to OLOville and caused a bit of a stir with his braggadocio.

I've come to the conclusion, however, that he has merely perfected his craft, and it''s all rather stage managed and purposeful - and conducted mainly for his own pleasure.

I've decided to sit back an enjoy it - after all, who am I to knock back free entertainment.

Lexi,
I understand your point. However, is it not terribly conceited (narcisstic is a term that has been used here) for someone to 'blow smoke' when they clearly don't have the expertise in a specific area under discussion?

Put another way, I don't think it's about sounding better than others. Clearly, while some people are more articulate and confident in their "debating skills", on OLO they are merely proffering an opinion. Of course, there is nothing wrong with this, but some people's opinions are more qualified than others - whether they "sound" better or not. I would say it is more conceited for those that are not qualified to put-down the opinions of others that are qualified.

Perhaps Col Rouge does think this thread is about him, as you suggest. But whether it is or not doesn't really matter, he certainly appears to have taken up the challenge (so to speak) with the confidence that you so speak of.

For example, I believe Col when he says he is an accomplished and successful accountant. So, when he proffers an opinion on accountancy matters - you better believe I will take notice. However, I take less notice when he proffers an opinion on the radiative properties of carbon dioxide and its role in global warming.

Pelican
I agree - there appears to be just as many anti-Righties as anti-Lefties on OLO. Thing is, Col always seems to want to turn the discussion/topic into Right versus Left, or detracts (and distracts) from the discussion by talking about how many houses he has, how successful he is, or trumpeting about going to a casino with his like-minded partner - as if that's got anything to do with the price of soy beans in Tasmania :)

Poirot
Methinks you nailed it.
"braggadocio" - ROFL

The recent posts have been very entertaining indeed.

All I have presented is research about a tiny minority of the human diaspora who are basically self-obsessed - narcissists.

And this topic has drawn interesting responses. From those who actually think this thread is all about them, to those who thought this thread was all about the aforementioned.

There is nothing wrong with healthy self-promotion - most of us do that. Where it crosses the line, is when a person's self-regard prevents them from having any empathy or care for others. Most of us have encountered this personality type at some point in our lives in the workplace, clubs, schools, where ever humans congregate. The narcissist can completely derail and entire organisation. For example:

"There is always the option of avoiding a narcissistic CEO, but these days that will prove difficult. Narcissism is virtually a requirement to become head of a company. That's because narcissists tend to like drama. They are attracted to big change and risk. Investors expect substantial returns and want their CEOs to take risks to deliver them. "It used to be that CEOs weren't asked to do extreme things," says Don Hambrick, who along with Arijit Chatterjee, both professors at Penn State University, developed a test to determine whether a CEO is narcissistic and to what degree. "They changed the rules so as to encourage more extremism, more flamboyance, go-for-broke types."

.... The key to dealing with these types: thick skin. "A narcissist won't show very much emotional intelligence," says Michael Maccoby, author of The Productive Narcissist: The Promise and Peril of Visionary Leadership. "While he is very sensitive about his ego, he's not sensitive about yours. You've got to be willing to accept that if the reward is great enough. People who hung on at Microsoft got very rich." That means you can't criticize him or her, but expect a lot of it from the CEO....

Cont'd

Cont'd

"... Make sure you have something solid to contribute. Check and double check your work. A mistake means you're likely to get berated. Maccoby says that when Bill Gates doesn't like an idea he's prone to say something like: "That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard." When you do have a good idea, don't expect to get any credit.

You also have to accept that it's all about him or her. That means there will be phone calls no matter what time of day and on the weekends. "That doesn't mean you can't sometimes disagree, but you better be sure you know what you're talking about," says Maccoby. Still, narcissists tend to discard people when they don't need them anymore.

At the heart of narcissism is a lack of self-esteem. That's why narcissists require so much praise. If you're having a hard time dealing with one, use that to your advantage. "The most powerful way to influence them is to appeal to their irrational self-interest," says Terry Dockery, founder of the Business Psychology Co. in Marietta, Ga. Make it worth their while. Since this is driven by fear, tap into that. For instance, if you're suggesting an idea, you can phrase your pitch by explaining why the idea will make him or her look good.

Hambrick won't reveal who made the top of the narcissistic CEO study until it's published, but he did reveal that while their companies did see more extreme losses and gains, "on average their bottom lines were not higher or lower than non-narcissistic CEOs." That begs the question: Is it worth putting yourself through the hassle? Maybe it's time to find another job."

http://www.forbes.com/2006/08/28/business-basics-narcissist-ceos-cx_tw_0829narcissist.html

Do we really need narcissists? NO

Do we need to identify them? Abso-bloody-lutely.

Ammonite,

Just a point regarding Bill Gates. I believe it's been said that he probably has Aspergers, which would account for him just blurting out his thoughts, a la "That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard."
Aspergers is a high-functioning autistic variant, and one of the challenges for people on the spectrum is an altered empathy. This doesn't mean that they have no empathy, but that it is often compromised leading to the sort of straight talking exemplified above - not always taking the other person's feelings into account when offering your own.

Poirot

Point well taken. I do recall hearing that he is indeed a high functioning Aspberger's sufferer. There is nothing straight forward - and your comment is a timely warning not to overgeneralise. Note to self "be more carefully selective."

However, I stand by my view of the true narcissist or sociopath if you prefer. They would simply be sad sacks if not for the harm they cause.

Ammonite,

Yes, a person with from NPD would not be fun to be around in any capacity. Strangely enough, insecure people tend to cleave to that type and the narcissistic person obtains his "supply" through their often misguided loyalty. But a narcissist will drop them like a hot potato if their supply is not met - and will seek it elsewhere.

One of OLO's contributing article writers wrote something on narcissism (Sam Vaknin) - might be worth a peak if you google it.

Poirot

>> insecure people tend to cleave to that type and the narcissistic person obtains his "supply" through their often misguided loyalty. <<

Exactly, making whistle blowing even more fraught for any victims. In fact a lot of time spent by victims of people with NPD on wondering "is it me?" because they may appear to be outnumbered.

Most of the advice on workplace narcissists I have read tends to end with "leave the job". Not always practical, but often the only way to retain one's health and wellbeing.

Will google the article to which you refer.

Cheers

Today is a particularly wet cold Saturday, I could be cleaning house.... nah too boring. Prefer to learn.

From Sam Vanknin A video which discusses a NPD person's relationship with objects and people (or should that be objects and other objects?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pXDHKi15hY&feature=related

From Judith Orloff offers some advice on how to cope with the NPD person, but really comes to much the same conclusion as I, because narcissists do not change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxTddQM-d08&feature=related

Hoping people gain from these videos - it is often more rewarding watching and listening to a person than just reading dry articles.

Monbot I do not think I have ever described nyself as a “successful and accomplished accountant” maybe you could prompt my memory where I used those words… I am and have described myself as an accountant by profession which is not bragging, it is a fact.

Similarly, I am married to a lady who described herself to me as the vainest person I would ever meet and I love that she is , again not bragging but again stating fact

Now I see we have spawned a bunch of armchair psychologists (there must be a name for that personality disorder maybe we should call it -

“psycho-narcosis” – a person suffering junky obsession for critical analysis and judgement of other people –

“socialist” for short

They go around classifying others, including Bill Gates and me (nice company, so much nicer than being braced with Hitler).

Ladies, and I do not mean just the females ones, I suggest you simply satisfy yourself with the notion,
I relish all this attention…. I would observe most of you are not worth talking about, particularly the originator of the thread, who seems a most bland and irrelevant and inadequate soul–

I do love the banter too….

So much more fun than the adulation of the Daily Telegraphs recommend rating system.

And you lot as so good subjects when it comes to getting wound up, especially Ammonite
Who wrote “Do we really need narcissists? NO
Do we need to identify them? Abso-bloody-lutely.”

Question – and when you have “identified them” what will you do?

Stop them breeding?
Lock them up?

I suggest, far from worrying about “narcissistic personalities”

It is those who seek to classify and control others

Who they have arbitrarily classified as being:

“narcissistic”

or maybe those of a particular political view

or maybe who happen to be Jewish

who need to “identified”

Because it is they, with their “self appointed God” obsession who are the biggest danger to everyone else

They too have a name “Fascists"

Col Rouge

I can only thank you for the inestimable contributions you have made to this topic.

Hoping you and YOUR wife have an enjoyable weekend.

Col,

I stopped referring to you on page 7....

While being momentarily dazzled by your "style", I now couldn't give a hoot what you think about yourself - or me, for that matter.

Nice act, but of only limited interest : )

Dear bonmot,

The following link may be of interest to you and others:

http://www.yourcareerquest.com/articles/brag.html
"How to Brag Without Bragging: The Secret to Self Promotion."
by Ross Macpherson: President, Career Quest.

Dear Ammonite and Poirot,

As I've stated previously - basically it does come down to how
you express yourself. As I've written previously on OLO - the
art of reasoned, intelligent argument is a skill not easily
acquired. Sound reasoning will conquer
unreasonable generalisations every time.
Unreasonable generalisations make one appear to be
arguing on an emotional level -
not a mature intelligent one. Also
if one sounds too dogmatic and doesn't listen to
another person's opinion they will be deemed pig-headed
and will subsequently be
ignored. Whether you encounter a disagreement on OLO
or elsewhere,(at a dinner party, or at work),
it's best to think before you speak.
No one likes, or supports an abusive,
illogical or weak debater -
especially someone who becomes
quite obsessed in their increasingly
desperate efforts to offend.
We should resist the temptation to retaliate
and simply not respond.

Lexi "As a friend of mine stated"

a friend... you must have a vivid imagination... I gave up imaginary friends shortly before I started infant school

Pelican "I disagree with Houlley. Col does not have many detractors only people with whom he disagrees,"

and whilst you and I disagree, we have always done so with mutual respect for our differing views..... you initiate no claim to make self-righteous or judgemental comments of me, unlike some on this thread,

so we disagree and treat each other respectfully. - as I prefer :-)

Poirot - you claim to have zoned out on page 7..... so what, you are here addressing me on page 9 -

So, do I take you at your word or do I assume you are a liar

Regarding yourself, like I said "I would observe most of you are not worth talking about,"


Ammonite "Col Rouge

I can only thank you for the inestimable contributions you have made to this topic."

yes it would have been nice to say the same to you..... it would have been so nice.

Regarding our weekend

We have just been taken to lunch, very nice - both the wedding party and the lunch

tomorrow night we will be dancing... lighting up the floor with tangos and foxtrots.... (at last weeks formal ball we received compliments about our dancing)

an active life is so much more fun than trawling through web pages deciding what sort of personality type other people are, especially when one has never met the person and those people do not give a rats about the result.


Lexi "No one likes, or supports an abusive,
illogical or weak debater"

Exactly, that is what I find so irritating about you

We can go on and on....

ultimately, you good folk can complain all you want but it seems to me,

whilst you use plagarism and the efforts of others to manufacture criticism of the likes of people like me.....

I use original thought in doing the similar to you

and we all know who is, therefore, the more worthy debater

Dear Col,

You're a funny man in your increasingly desperate efforts
to offend. It doesn't suit you to become an old sausage -
fizzing and spluttering in his own grease. That's so -
what's the word I'm looking for - base.

As for imaginary friends - they're the best kind. You're
under no obligation to like them. The truth is that an
imagination is essential to an original mind.

cont'd...

By the way the correct spelling is - "plagiarism."

"Copy from one, it's plagiarism, copy from
two, it's research."
(William Mizner).

Col,

Don't assume anything about me,(coz you'll probably be wrong) except perhaps that I've belatedly realised that I've wasted a good deal of type space bothering to play your little game.

Won't happen too often, dear - your "show pony" is welcome to you.

Dear Poirot,

Posters on forums are most fortunate people in that they get to have a say even though they don't always deserve to be heard. It's a
nice indulgence and here we are taking advantage of it.

Lexi “You're under no obligation to like them. The truth is that an
imagination is essential to an original mind.”

Maybe so, but an “original mind” is not the only consequence of a imagination…

Indeed being “pathologically delused” is another outcome sourced from an imagination

The internet suits you Lexi… it seems, if you have enough time and look hard enough, as you do, you can find someone to justify your own bad practices

And by the way… responding to you… pedantic attachment to exact spelling is a complete waste of effort and I would hate for you to think I was trying to “top” you (a mouse running around on a wheel can do that)

Poirot… don’t sweat… I don’t even think about you… which I say at risk of repeating myself.

Like I said previously, I write here to amuse myself…. I do not ponder why you bother – to be here or perform any other function of your daily routine for that matter, other than to provide you with a break in the drudgery.

but to share with others your wonderful and unique insight on matters it ain’t

and trust me, my show-pony is happy with me, just as I am with her – there is something wonderfully satisfying about being in a relationship with an exceptionally beautiful woman and watching the looks she gets from other men and women.

Continuing with the metaphor:

Facts from the horse’s mouth -

“Ah if I were vain, I would think this post was about me …”

“I do welcome the company of “like minds”, I am married to one …”

“I am married to a lady who described herself to me as the vainest person I would ever meet …”

Conclusion:

The horse really is vain,

or the pony and horse are not of like minds,

or the pony doesn’t know what the horse is doing,

or the horse really is narcisstic,

or all of the above.

Ammonite, thanks for the thread and illuminating comments.

Lexi, thanks for the link.

Col, whatever makes you happy.

Col,

Good for your show pony. Personally I couldn't think of anything less exotic than poncing around with a fawning minion like yourself....but if she's happy, fair enough.

bonmot people who formulate an analysis of someone based on what other people say, without knowing, seeing, meeting or talking with the person in question-

are opportunist, lazy and stupid

They are opportunist because they analyse purely on what is presented.

They are lazy because a real analyst does more research than to simplistically listen to third party views

They are stupid because, considering the two comments above, they charge on in and make a complete fool of themselves with their armchair analysis which is completely devoid of real worth.

Grow up, smarten up and ask some basic research questions, instead of just listening to what you are fed -

before you make an even bigger fool of yourself than you have already

Poirot... me fawning around... the reason she married me was because, unlike all the fellows before me, I was neither hyper-conceited nor was I a fawning puppy-dog, running around, grovelling for her attention or to ingratiating her by doing her bidding (she had known both types in her past and was intolerant of both).

She found in me what I found in her... we are mirrors

Again, like bomnot, you present yourself as having a grasping inadequacy by making snap judgements, designed solely to aggrevate and annoy, instead of illuminate .....

on the scale of being capable of making reasoned argument, you (both) fall in the middle of the lower quartile of performance.... on an intellectual scale, somewhere between pond-life and lemmings.

What a matched pair you make-

both looking away from and suited only to holding up books of wisdom, which you are incapable of comprehension or appreciation

a pair of bookends.

I will stop there... I would hate to feed you guys enough to forment "flaming"

Discussion thread needs some reiteration.

This discussion thread is about assisting anyone who has had dealings with NPD personalities.

I have given examples that it is useless trying to reason with a narcissist or playing them at their own game. It must be acknowledged we all have a level of narcissism or we wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the mornings, however we also believe that reason will win over the most recalcitrant. And this plays right into the tangle a complete narcissist weaves.

I have stated that the examples and posts I and all other posters have made and I stress EVERYONE, either knowingly or unwittingly have proven that the narcissist personality cannot change, nor are they given to self-reflection. Rather, they will resort to sarcasm when it is clear that nothing else they have said has convinced anyone that they are superior beings.

"A narcissist has a way of turning everything around so you begin to question yourself. He will do something terribly mean or cruel. You will talk to him about it, but by the end of the conversation, you are the one apologizing for some reason. A narcissist knows how to manipulate better than anyone.

In my experience, a narcissist eventually becomes sarcastic and belittles you constantly. You begin to feel you can do nothing right in his eyes and your presence is hardly tolerable. You’re baffled. You wonder what you did wrong to cause such a drastic change in his feelings toward you. You struggle desperately to return things to the way they were in the beginning. Unfortunately, as hard as you try, things will never be the same again. This is because everything he did in the beginning was an act to secure your love, nothing more. It is a maddening and precarious way to live. It can drive anyone to the edge of their sanity."

http://www.articlesbase.com/marriage-articles/a-narcissist-knows-how-to-manipulate-better-than-anyone-1041736.html

Cont'd

Cont'd

A narcissist wins by having his/her victims questioning their own self-worth. Therefore, dealing with such people requires a strong sense of self. The best revenge is simple, although difficult to do when one feels mistreated:

Live and let live.

This may mean simply walking away, cutting our losses; for example changing jobs, seeking a divorce or developing a skin as thick as the narcissists themselves (which may be the only option for families).

Finally I will state the old cliche:

Constant vigilance.

A good clue is when a person finds him or herself questioning their abilities, take a good look at the circumstances. No one is as incompetent as a narcissist would have you believe. There are many support groups for people injured by the behaviour of the narcissist, the following link is to a Facebook page where one can talk directly with others:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_46881395412&ap=1

Regards to all.

Dear Ammonite,

Thank You for this thread it certainly has been an eye-opener.
I was brought up to believe that good manners were essential
and that one had a moral obligation to display charitable
conduct. As far as bragging goes - As Ross Macpherson tells us
in the link I gave not everyone is comfortable bragging. "Bragging
is rude and obnoxious... We've all met those annoying blowhards who
talk about themselves constantly." However there is another type
of bragging that he mentions. "I'm talking about taking ownership
for what you can do well, recognizing it, and articulating it to
the right people in a comfortable, interesting, and seamless way.
It takes finesse and it takes practice and it can pay huge
dividends in your career... in other words its an art well worth
learning."

Some people will never learn the art of subtlety. They view every
encounter as a battlefield, a contact sport. Their substitute for
good manners is fast reflexes. This type of behaviour is strongest
among low-status members of society who regardless of how they brag,
their actions and behaviour give them away. They're so predictable,
and can't help themselves. Attack and offense are their weapons
as is a consistent pattern of intolerance,
irrationality and lack of logic.
They make sense of the world by simplifying its complexity. Of course
their personalities and feelings develop in, and are shaped by, their
social context.

cont'd ...

I fogot to add that these people enjoy provoking others - especially
on a public forum such as this one. It is always best to leave them
to themselves (and their toadys) as they are engaged in a pointless
exercise in self-indulgence.

Lexi and Ammonite,

There appears to be a clear distinction between a person who indulges in mere bragging and one who is a narcissist....seems I've had the displeasure recently of interacting with an example of the latter - won't happen again.

“This discussion thread is about assisting anyone who has had dealings with NPD personalities.”

you will find the origin of this thread is about people who supposedly “brag”

you opened with the first line of your first post

“Why do some people believe that constant boasting about themselves impresses others?”

Now it is about NPD personalities ?

Question:

are you a psychiatrist / psychologist, trained and experienced in classifying personalities and the difference / grades/ hues of personality disorders

Or

Are you merely am sad and pathetic armchair opinion holder, pretending to make a judgment you are not qualified or licenced to proclaim?

I suspect the latter, in which case, your view as expressed is instantly and completely ignorable as being without foundation in any reputable training

Regarding

As to some of the stuff you have been typing “A narcissist knows how to manipulate better than anyone.”

Maybe you are projecting what you see in yourself – using such terms could be construed -

To merely illuminate others

or

to manipulate others to align with and support your view?

“In my experience, a narcissist eventually becomes sarcastic and belittles you constantly.”

Like when Lexi wrote “Would you like some cheese and crackers to go with that whine?”

And has frequently written similar in the past… (I can go find and quote them but word posting limits constrict their full presentation here)

I further ask,”in your experience”: is that “clinical experience” or just day to day observation of charging hoards of NPDs which you imagine on every corner?

It makes no material difference to me if this thread is about me (as Houelle believes). Flattering that someone should wish to introduce a thread about me… it feeds my sense of vanity (like my ‘mirrors’ sense of vanity)
or maybe this thread is about someone’s imaginary friend
.
I said before I enjoy banter. I enjoy word-smithing and use this site as the “playground” which it is. It is a source of diversison. Anyone who thinks it should be more serious than that should get themselves a real life

take up dancing

This reads like a case study in passive aggression and bullying. Well done girls. Nice portrait of control freaks and mean girls. It takes zero 'imagination' to read between the lines in this whole thread, and it consists of some very nasty and more importantly, cowardly people. Sure we're all anonymous, but that isn't enough protection for some who need to go on like this, tag teaming with this kind of rubbish.

I find it fascinating how people can bully all the while claiming some kind of victim status.

Fractelle,

let go of the bully husband pain and move on with your life.

Poirot,

I thought you had a more worldly mature outlook and intellect than to join in with this cockle of poster children for manipulative passive aggression and victim positioning.

Col,

I agree, how boring is the amateur psychologist? Perhaps it's a symptom of someone who has had too much therapy and thinks the problem is with everyone else. You've handled yourself with class, and reacted appropriately to the provocation

'I fogot to add that these people enjoy provoking others'

I think you lot have lost sight of who is provoking who. As I said, the hypocrisy and cowardice of the perpetual 'victims' is astounding. For a start, if you want to have a dig at someone, have the guts to do it overtly, so you don't have the face saving fall-back of 'this is just about NPD' to maintain the victim position when the inevitable rebuttal arrives.

I again need to repeat myself, this discussion thread is not about any single person.

Col if you believe that it is..... ROFL, fine by me, your posts support much of what I have said in delineating the difference between mere bragging and the self delusion of narcissism.

Even you must agree that it is important to know the difference between idle boasts and those who would try to manipulate you to their own advantage.

I have never told anyone how to think - despite your claims, merely that people do think, ask questions, be vigilant. Why do you find such commentary so threatening? You have all you could possibility want out of life (if your claims are true), why do you need to protest so loudly and continue to make claims about yourself which can never be verified here?

I can only hope that your lovely wife continues to be a mirror to you, thus ensuring peace at Chez Rouge.

Houellie,

Let's call a spade a spade, shall we.

Your mate has amply indulged himself in much amusement and provocation on this thread and others - it's thing he does best - for his own entertainment.

We can all be provocative at times, not least yourself - but don't attempt to make someone a victim when their own consistently demonstrated style is to insult and provoke fellow posters.

Generally I agree poirot, but I cant believe you're that naive as to who is the instigator in this particular thread.

As Han Solo once said, I prefer a straight out fight rather than all this sneaking around.

I don't make Col into a victim, he can handle himself and enjoys the attention, it's the duplicity, manipulation and cowardice that is my focus.

It's like 3 people slyly smacking someone in the head from behind, and then when he finds out and punches them all in the face acting all holier than thou and having a big cry and saying 'see!, that guy's such a bully!'.

I have more respect for people like Keating who once said something like if I stab someone it will be in the front, so I can watch their face as I twist and turn the knife. ie Our Col. (I'm sure he'll love to be compared with Keating)

Sure back stabbing can be entertaining, but gang backstabbing while maintaining you're the one being stabbed is just a step too far.

Be honest, one of the key aspects of Forum life is how much you learn about human nature, just by sitting back and reading the stuff they are prepared to say about themselves. Sticking to facts would be so boring, it's important to have a little colour around the place.

I still don't believe that Col is a sixty-plus accountant with a stunning piece of arm-candy, but it really doesn't matter what I think - the amusement factor is far more relevant.

It's little chuckles like this one, that bonmot picked up on...

>>...trumpeting about going to a casino with his like-minded partner<<

I still smile, just visualizing someone with an IQ of 170 going to a casino.

"Casino gambling: Nature's tax on people who are really bad at maths."

Pericles,

You are right, of course.

...and I did attempt a few pages ago to lighten my viewpoint and try and enjoy the entertainment value....only to be drenched in a subsequent reply by an odious response.

Hardly seems worth the trouble to compose a response to such a personality.....and I won't be bothering in the future.

Hey Houelle “You've handled yourself with class, and reacted appropriately to the provocation”

We do our best - thankyou

“Our Col. (I'm sure he'll love to be compared with Keating)”

Yep, absolutely love that line ROFL and the exceptional manner of the comparison

Pericles “I still don't believe that Col is a sixty-plus accountant with a stunning piece of arm-candy,”

Observation – a lie tend to explode in the face of its originator and they are so hard to maintain… truth is easier… Houelle and a few others have seen pictures of my wife and www.sassable even put her on their home page for a couple months (which was unexpected compliment on their part)

Pericles “I still smile, just visualizing someone with an IQ of 170 going to a casino.”

fact is fact – that is amuses you is a bonus – I resume even you do things other people manage to find amusing – or are you 100% straight, plain, boring?

Poirot “and I won't be bothering in the future.”

At least some good has come out of this then….

Maybe I should start a blog and then those of you who need to can follow our activities and scrutinize our “narcissistic behavior” at your leisure

Anyway gotta fly we are off to do some business promotion work before dinner at the casino…..

I will ponder Pericles sniggering away to himself

Dear Pericles and Poirot,

Go back to the opening post of this discussion and read the posts that ensued. The topic to me seemed to be on bragging, narcissists,
and personality disorders in general. The responses were on topic until Col Rouge came on the scene. Read his first response he was the one who made it personal and used offense and attack which is his style. Comments like - "unworthies of the left," "washed has-beens," "little people," "lightening wits,"
and again with the - "leftards," and so on.

As you said Poirot - it is best to simply scroll past and not get involved. It lowers the bar for everyone when things turn into a
slanging match. As for anyone claiming "victim" status ? That can't be taken seriously.

This debate actually got bogged down, but in the real world we
simply have different kinds of thinkers.

People like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are brilliant thinkers,
systemic thinkers as distinct from empathic thinkers.
Yup, they have a low tolerance for nonsense, but that is why
they achieve what they do. So what if they are difficult? They
also have a vision which few have.

The BBC explains the difference. Systemic thinkers are more
commonly male, empathic thinkers most likely female.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/articles/empathising_systemising.shtml

.

Dear Yabby,

We do have different kinds of thinkers in the world. I particularly like the words of wisdom on self mastery by the Buddhist
philosopher, Daisaku Ikeda:

"A person of integrity seeks self mastery. It isn't how you compare to others that's important - but rather how you compare to who you
were yesterday. If you've advanced even one step, then you've
achieved something great."

cont'd ...

Dear Yabby,

You could be right about the difference between women and men.
When a woman goes through a mid-life crisis - she goes through
a variety of complicated emotions. Whereas a mid-life crisis in
a man provokes a uniform reaction. He buys aviator glasses,
a nifty french cap, leather gloves and goes shopping for a
(cough) ... porsche. ;-)

First of all I would like to thank everyone who has made a post on my little discussion thread. The contributions have been illuminating to say the least.

We live in an age where appearance matters more than substance, people are made celebrities for little more than being in the right place at the right time - certainly not for any deeper contribution to human enlightenment. This is sounding more preachy than I intended, apologies.

I started this thread to inform, because often people feel they are alone in their experiences with the behaviour of others and believe it is themselves who are at fault. The narcissist relies on this response. And will feed those feelings of self doubt.

Therefore, I would like to conclude with a few Australian based links for anyone who is interested in understanding this minority of people:

http://www.drjohnclarke.com/

http://www.bullyingnoway.com.au/

http://www.unisa.edu.au/news/2010/291010.asp

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/40988-dealing-with-a-narcissist-emotional-vampires-and-a-lack-of-empathy

and

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1519206/are-you-a-narcissist

http://bob.bofh.org/~robm/misc/psycho.html

Dear Ammonite,

Thank You for this discussion topic.
I've learned much from it. The topic
was a difficult and an emotive one
threre's no doubt about that.
However this is a forum of social and
political debate and its topics like
these that raise the bar and result in
attracting such a wide mix of responses.

Well done, and I look forward to your next one.
See you on another thread.

Awwww... shame.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

A quick wave to Col...

>>Houelle and a few others have seen pictures of my wife and www.sassable even put her on their home page for a couple months<<

I think I may have found one of them...

http://www.sassable.com/ear-candling-does-it-work

Pericles "I think I may have found one of them..."

nope... try reading... my comment was past tense... and I did say "Sassable Home Page", not buried in a product page

.....and the past tense, it was back in January / February

Sassable regularly rewrites its "home page" to keep it "fresh"

and those ear candles are good for fixing vertigo and a few other ear and inner ear problems

Actually, my wife is still there at Sassable but under one of our business listings.

Thank you for taking my contribution seriously, Col.

>>nope... try reading... my comment was past tense... and I did say "Sassable Home Page", not buried in a product page... and the past tense, it was back in January / February<<

It would have been a terrible shame if you had thought that I was being merely facetious.

Dear Pericles,

You're a class act!

Glad that you had fun.

It would have been a terrible shame if you had thought that I was being merely facetious.ericles "It would have been a terrible shame if you had thought that I was being merely facetious."

na my mistake Pericles, I always figured facetious was a bit above you

*He buys aviator glasses,
a nifty french cap, leather gloves and goes shopping for a
(cough) ... porsche. ;-)*

Sheesh Lexi that reminds me that its time to place the order :)

I think its best if we accept our dna, as it was dished out in
the lucky dip of life and make the best of what we have.
The purpose of our lives can be whatever we deem it to be.

Dear Yabby,

You're a honey of a man and I wish for you to live life to the fullest. Which I'm sure you're doing. As for me - well, I don't have the answers to the big questions in life. I'm still on my own road to discovery. Yes, I have been incredible lucky. But everything is relative; everything has its story; and everyone has obstacles to overcome. They are our greatest teachers. Each of us goes through transitions and transformations. The important thing is that we acknowledge them and learn from them. I enjoy interacting with you -
and I trust that we'll see each other on another thread.

Take care.

Interesting link, Pericles. I suspect the best use of the 'ear candle' would be to hold it to the side of the patient's head, while peering intently into the opposite ear.
If you can see the flame, not only does the patient not have a problem with ear wax, she probably doesn't have an IQ of 170, either.

For those of 'us' that love ear candles and think that they are good for anything, the following experiment might be of interest.

Position and light one up on the ear of a doll and see how much 'earwax' you can get out of one of those things. You'll be amazed!

It's far more effective than the saline wash for getting earwax out...(of dolls).

Bugsy

Dolls? Earwax? Out of?

(I am probably going to be struck down by lightening just for what I am thinking).

Dear Ammonite,

I'm thinking the same thing. So we'll go down together.
My thoughts were prompted by an article I read in an old
magazine in my GP's office while waiting to get my flu shot.
This particle article was entitled, "Three Men and a Barbie,"
by Ross Anderson, and I quote:

"For most people, Barbie dolls and pornography don't go together.
Although there is something fundamentally salacious about her,
with her cascading hair and perpetual ingratiating smile, in
some ways Barbie could be considered more suitable to star in an
adolescent boy's fantasy then as a plaything for pre-teen girls.
Especially those girls with tender body images and normal feet.
Similarly, one wouldn't think of Barbie in terms of big money.
Made of plastic and mass-produced. Barbie is well within the
financial reach of most consumers."

Yet the article was interesting because one of the world's biggest
Barbie doll collections (valued at over one million dollars), went
missing, both money and pornography came very much into play. Before
the case was closed, allkinds of un-Barbie-like things would happen,
arson, forgery, a raid on a porno movie studio, the uncovering of
a drug ring, suicide. What followed was an account of how Barbie
found herself in such netherwordly social circles.

It made for interesting reading in the doctor's office.

Lexi

Oh no! Not the Barbies!

Er, no I wasn't thinking about Barbie dolls, maybe I spend too much time watching SBS. There was a docu series about men and their very lifelike dolls - nothing so prosaic as inflatable dollies, but flexible full size dolls that were um, correct in every detail. The program also showed the regular, um, maintenance that these dolls required after, um, regular use. Very expensive, these dolls were shipped in special crates back to the manufacturer for repair of broken parts... and then shipped back to their owners, who very distraught during the absence of their dolls.

These men were very brave going on TV to discuss the reasons for the dolls, only one man was in a relationship and by the end of the series the relationship was floundering.

Ammonite "These men were very brave going on TV to discuss the reasons for the dolls, only one man was in a relationship and by the end of the series the relationship was floundering."

i think I have seen a documentary about that some time ago....

alot of their reasoning was to do with being in "total control" etc...

from what I recall, it was a long time ago that I saw the doco', I thought the blokes were all sad cases....

the "doll" in that context, is nothing like a real lady (regardless the nickname).

Gee, who would have guessed.

Grim

ROFL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGOU0o9K89g