http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-winter-of-discontent/story-fn59niix-1226069670669

"IN a despairing counterpoint to the imminent first anniversary of Julia Gillard's brutal installation into the prime ministership, Labor MPs have, for the first time, begun to put a deadline on her failing leadership. In recent internal discussions, backbenchers have set December - the traditional killing season for political leaders - as the first timeline for any move against her, with the default position being early in the New Year."

Despite the backlash from the political execution of Kevin Rudd, the unthinkable is being seriously considered. With the carbon tax as popular as the plague, and the moral and financial morass of the Malaysian Solution, federal Labor seems doomed to suffer the fate of NSW and Queensland.

What has been the fate of QLD? We keep complaining about our government, and we keep voting it back in. Campbell Newman may turn that around; then again, he may not. As far as I can tell, the fate of Labor in Queensland has, to date, been remarkably pleasing (for Labor, anyway).

Shadow Minister while you see this as a negative for my party I see it the other way.
I truly, honestly and totally think the ALP is far better than Conservatives , more than ever under Tony Abbott.
But it is my belief Julia Gillard Carry's even more blame than Rudd for my party's failures.
A look, even a glance,at the once engine room of the ALP NSW will highlight a loss in direction .
Gillard was along with the unforgivable Simon Crean responsible,with Fitzgibbon, for dumping Kim and installing Mark Latham.
That awful group still owes my party and my country for its roll in that and the failures of the Rudd era.
With out delay my party/government should not just replace Gillard but who ever is putting policy's like cash for clunkers and much more to.
Haveing said this embraced your thread supported it as true I want to say this.
My party has let us down, it is full of hope and promise but it must embrace its failures.
Yours is no alternative, right now it is beyond belief that you lead in the polls,a sorry state for this country poor government but even worse opposition.
Abbott's latest 2009 film is one of a thousand available, even just his Hansard statements from his first days in Parliament show this man would say or do anything.
What a great new start for Australia if we saw both leaders dumped.

By the way, you quote a newspaper that is at its best on the wall of an out back dunny door.
And it will not be Carbon tax, nore Malaysian solution, or live cattle exports that see the lady go.
It,as I said in a post the day she got her job, she can not be trusted.
If the independents vote against live exports, it should go without saying conservatives will not.
But sadly Abbott may vote with them, the problem is well on the way to being solved but your man is already siding with idiot left proud of that?

Belly,

The coalition governments have never been such a shambles. Your delusion that the opposition is worse is not shared by the majority of voters.

TAs negative campaign is necessary to keep the appalling labor government to account. Tony Abbott would be far better for Australia than Juliar.

Getting ready to dispose of the Red curse is not a conspiracy, it's due to the fact that even Labor MP's (hard to believe I know) can see what that thing is doing to us. It's just an unusual display of common sense by the senseless.

'Gillard was along with the unforgivable Simon Crean responsible,with Fitzgibbon, for dumping Kim and installing Mark Latham.
That awful group still owes my party and my country for its roll in that and the failures of the Rudd era.'

I agree Belly. Kudos to you for holding such a long grudge too.

I cant really keep that kind of grudge. I was a leader in the Howard Hating movement, and I really missed hating him when he left but all I can do now is laugh at him and think... silly old guy. The Deputy Sheriff! That Australian tracksuit. Silly old guy.

Labor were so close under Kim, but world events conspired against him. It's one of the more respectable oppositions I can remember. I mean oppositions are eternally quite pathetic all round, which is why I wonder why people give Abbott such a hard time. It's always been the job of oppositions to provide a short sound-bite of 'No, that's rubbish' at the end of every news story about the governmnet.

I reckon I'd be wonderful in opposition. I can oppose heaps of stuff like I do on OLO even when I really think it's not a bad idea.

I always liked Kim, but Australia wasn't ready for a fat jovial man with a heart of gold to be PM. Which is why Hockey who is a lightweight in comparison to Kim hasn't a chance in hell. Actually Hockey is a loveable buffoon all round, while Kim had all that respect ion foreign affairs and could suck up to America while retaining a semblance of self respect, not like Joooolia and Johnny.

But Hockey and Kim are both fat and nice guys I reckon.

If Labor gave Cate a safe seat I reckon Australia would vote her in, and she'd be a shoe-in for PM.

Then I reckon the liberals should get Bolts and Piers to be a shadow climate change committee.

I reckon Politics is like a SOAP opera for men. Like the NRL.

I too am inclined to think that Julia is highly vulnerable right now. And given that she seems incapable of presenting any policy to the world with any conviction, I suspect the end may be nigh.

The problem that has been examined from every angle over the past few months is still the same: what, if anything, does she and her Party stand for?

A Labor Party - any Labor Party - should have a solid ethical foundation based on fairness and compassion. This one seems to be stuck in the rut of factional opportunism, without any form of guiding principle that might eventually extricate them from the mess it is in.

The other facet of her leadership that has become painfully apparent is that she has no "presence". We, as a country, need a leader who can stand alongside other world leaders without looking painfully provincial. I can't see this changing.

Common sense tells us that Labor will lose the next election, under any leader. There simply isn't the time available to right the ship. So the return of Rudd - effectively reversing the backstabbing that has never been completely forgiven - is the safe and sensible option.

With luck, he will have learned a little about himself in the meantime, and make a better fist of it. He might even be fed up with all that travelling.

I can't see Labor ditching Gillard before the next election, but I'd be very surprised indeed if Abbott is still Coalition leader, particularly now that video of him advocating a carbon tax has surfaced. Abbott does a good job as an attack dog, but he's unelectable as PM.

Compared to an ETS, the carbon tax provides far more certainty for business. The only reason an ETS was put in place in Europe, is that it was impossible to legislate a tax on carbon, and by setting emissions, the government can wash its hands of the price and consequences.

In 2009 it looked as though a global agreement was going to be reached, and I was in favour of a carbon tax. Since then there has been no global agreement, and a price on carbon on probably a few percent of emissions.

I will support a carbon tax, but not yet.

I bet Kevin is feeling exceptionally smarmy ---- the milkybar kids revenge

his one time deputy and now his nemesis -

Gillard is toast... the socialist mob and their turncoat independents all know they are dead in the water

Bob Brown, the little green terror, is the only one unaware of how high a stench this government eminates - largely because Bob is so far up himself he has evolved and can no long survive in daylight

Bring on the next election and lets get back to a government who ran this country like it should be and that is with

No Carbon Tax

No Malaysian refugee bulldust

No House Insulation fires

No Recessions

No Surrender to the unrepresentative Greens


- just free people getting on with their lives

- without undue interference from a bunch of control freaks

Yes Houelly, the fools got rid of the best prospect for a good PM, who could have been liked & respected by everyone when they got rid of Kim.

Pericles why on earth would you want to have a rerun of a bloke who has proved himself to be an idiot. Someone who has no analytical ability & can only go off half cocked. Gillard is ineffectual & dithering, but Rudd is decisive, until everyone shows what a stupid mistake he's made, & then back flips, mostly. He is more dangerous to Oz than the red twit, because he sometimes gets his stupidity into force, like going soft on people smugglers.

I watched Rudd while foreign affairs spokesman, declare his undying love & support for Kim, but it did not take much perception to see what he was then. That you fell for a paper cut out is to your undying shame.

Morgan, anyone who has been stupid enough to support Rudd & Gillard, or either of them for PM has shown such incredibly bad judgement that doing the opposite to their suggestions has to be a better way to go, than following them.

You & your mates denigrating Abbott, & claiming he is unelectable just reinforce my expectation that he will be our next PM.

I know he is not arrogant enough for you lefties, probably why you all like Turnbull, but he is closer to normal than the rest on offer, & that's got to be a good starting point

I get the feeling that the Independents are looking for an exit strategy. They probably don’t relish loosing face by initiating a collapse however; all it might take is for one independent to hit the wall on “their” policy deliverable, or a break in ranks within the ALP on any major issue. At which point the independents can legitimately claim that their support cannot save the government.

One of the most gratifying aspects of the current situation for the government is that they continue to pursue that which is contrary to their own interests.

Spindoc,

Unfortunately the independents have painted themselves into a corner. If they ditch labor now, they are still dead. Better to wait out the 3 years.

Agreed SM,

It might just depend on the glue they used. The threshold for structural integrity failure is not yet observable. The “all is just fine” mantra of press briefings is covering that up really well.

That the independents are dead anyway is fairly clear, even Bob Katter can smell that one above the background stench of federal politics. He wants rid of any association with “independents”.

All I’m suggesting is that “if” the independents are looking for salvation, they may just get enough “frequent quisling” points to hang in if they are seen as simply putting the final nail into the coffin rather than pre-empting the funeral, particularly if this is done in the short term before an electable alternative can establish themselves in their electorates.

Maybe just wishful thinking on my part, but my goodness I’m enjoying the spectacle.

A good measure of how bad things are for the government is the frequency, volume and content of posts from Belly. Bless him; he’s such a true political barometer

I claim no insight.
But Kim was far from a fat fool, I loved and forever admired him.

I contend those of my age who have been Labor always, will have seen this before.
Examine Labors failures, but do not ignore its successes.
Have a closer look at todays printed and spoken media, then visit the archives of 1973 to 1975 see the similarity's
Yes my party in NSW and infested federally,fell under the spell of young yuppies.

They KNEW why should they listen to the Grey singlets .
We only exist to door knock, man the booths then be tucked away till needed.
Leave your brains in the bucket stuff.
Cash for clunker was only one of ten bloody silly insulting attempts to buy votes ,telling voters we are too silly to under stand.
Why did we not call a double dissolution, at a time we would have won with ease.
Why was the most important issue of our times , Rudd's words ETS stopped by Gillard, WHY did the greens, the defective anti compromise greens not pass a first step ETS.
How could Labor not see, not stop not defend those $900 checks to dead people, to some who had lived over seas for 20 years, how did this good scheme fund other country's as well as our own.
Fitzgibbon, Do you Julia think we have forgotten.
He slated the trade union movement,that group who got you in power.
He was Mark Lathams private property JULIA he is yours, do you think we forget, forgive,.;
Julia he sold his sole to China, yet the grub is your whip, yes he is Julia.
Labor, from within, has the ideas and the talent to be what Rudd promised has it got the guts?
Look past Julia look at Ministers Shoten would lift us helped by Combet, ministers being over looked are any ones equal
I charge those on the left who see Labors sin via a magnifying glass but conservatives from a distance.
Who jump in to the greens camp to know I will blame them for our defeat.

Eh?

>>Pericles why on earth would you want to have a rerun of a bloke who has proved himself to be an idiot.<<

I wasn't expressing a desire, Hasbeen, or a preference. I was simply making a situation assessment.

The "safe and sensible option" is merely my view of the how the Labor Party might approach the problem. Because it is a problem. Almost a survival problem.

I hold no admiration for any of the current crop of bag-carriers and chancers, as many of my posts here will consistently testify. Rogues and thieves the lot of them, a completely value-free zone. None of them has my vote, and hasn't had my vote for over twenty years.

Since 1988, in fact. The year Ted Mack walked away from politics.

Oh I never said he was a fool Belly, I said Hockey was the fool. Actually I said Hockey is a buffoon. I loved Kim. That was in the peak of my Howard Hating though.

'Yes my party in NSW and infested federally, fell under the spell of young yuppies.'

The worst of fates. Belly if they're full of young yuppies again, tell me now and I wont vote for them.

'They KNEW why should they listen to the Grey singlets .'
Or Hawaiian shirts for that matter. Or those long white socks with shorts. I bet Johnny used to wear them.

'We only exist to door knock, man the booths then be tucked away till needed.'
Sounds like a plan. Where you can do no harm.

'WHY did the greens, the defective anti compromise greens not pass a first step ETS.'

I dunno Belly, but it gives me great pleasure to point this out to Greens supporters at BBQs. 'Could a had an ETS by now if it wasn't for you lot.' Hahaha.

'He slated the trade union movement,that group who got you in power.'

You don't mean Joe Hockey's union bosses?

'Labor, from within, has the ideas and the talent'

Really? I mean, really Belly? I haven't seen any talent. Shorten is a good orator I'll give you that and thinks well on his feet and speaks clearly. But I heard he is 2 faced. A union boss. Cancels him out.

Pericles,

Old gramps, I have only ever heard of the legend of this Mack guy. Did he not retire the day before he would receive a pension or something?

I admire a man who can cut off his nose to spite his face like that, and who makes grand protests. It must massively piss off the average trough feeder.

It is sad that there has only been one such excursion of a man rejecting self interest so boldly in the history of politicians. Has there ever been any similar stunts?

Kim Beazley was very likeable but suffered from the same condition of many modern politicians - poll driven ideology. Kim, although an intelligent man, did not present a solid platform or set of policies. What did the ALP stand for? We never knew. Kim would bend like the proverbial reeds in the pond over policy positions depending on which way the wind was blowing.

Funny how Mr Rudd has suddenly become a saint. Don't forget he was instrumental in knifing Beazley (along with Simon Crean) and then Latham. The trouble when there are so many knives out is the risk that you might also trip and fall on one of them.

At least Mark Latham was forthright and laid it all on the table whether you liked him or not, in the same way that one always knew where Cheryl Kernot stood despite her latter poor choices. Even Katter and Joyce provide a bit of colour and at least there is no mystery to their beliefs, love them or loathe them. I like a bit of colour in my politicians, at least you can see them.

While the government's track record could be called woeful in places, the current Opposition is a sham. The public are not fools and one would think the hung parliament outcome of the last election would invite some reflection.

The schoolyard opposing-everything style of electioneering is not indicative of strong policy, there is nothing for the public to get is grip on unless one calls pork barrelling middle class income policy a form of ideology. The tape about Abbott's recommendation for a carbon price exposed the shallowness of our current opposition.

The only support this type of electioneering fosters is already die hard Coalition supporters. The disillusioned remain so, and like lemmings the politicians keep heading towards the precipice.

'unless one calls pork barrelling middle class income policy a form of ideology.'

You mean it's not? Hmm.

pelican I really don't understand why people are so obsessed with the opposition. Why aren't people interested in the party that's actually governing. It;s really bizarre. You leftys have your team in pole position, but are still living like you're the underdog.

Maybe the Labor party hasn't realised it is actually governing, and is taking queues from Mr Rabbit on what to say and do.

I find it inexplicable the most common thing comming out of a Labor supporters mouth is lamenting about the standard of the opposition as if that's at all relevent.

As Peter Garret once said, 'We'll just change it all when we get in government'. It was the most truthful thing any politician has ever said. It highlights why, to me, there is no such thing as an opposition. They aren't important, they aren't responsible for giving any alternative policy, and if they did the governmnet would just steal the good ideas anyway.

The opposition's job is to obstruct the governmnet at every turn, the government's job is to govern and ignore them.

I'll spell that out again...

The opposition's job is to obstruct the governmnet at every turn, the government's job is to govern and ignore them.

The Labor party is 100% at fault for the quality of the opposition.

100%. It's a total red herring this aww but Mr Rabbit wont let us govern.

This government the weakest government in history because it spends it's whole time arguing with Mr Rabbit and not governing or even bothering to sell any of their policies. What a ruse!

They're not fooling anyone.
I remember the Rodent barely acknowledged the opposition even existed. They'd come up with some criticism about one of his policies and he'd just ignore them. He seemed to have his eye on the ball, and seemed to be attempting to govern. Not like this mob.

Houlie I had to edit my post,know you liked Kim said so, others thought that of him.
Shorten, I have had a great deal of contact with him, and Paul Howe's.
The AWU has been my life time union, first as co delegate in 1963.
Try to find the words of both filed in the AWU national web site.
Shorten is no phantom, he is first grade, Combet and heaps Gillard is not letting fly do too.
Bill Shorten,like ANY LEADING POLLY has an ego, they must have.
Both he and Howe's are in all probability unhappy with my actions ,in the way I left and my putting my views.
But any union official, any worth while,should not stand for DREADFUL bosses, mine was one will be till he is removed So proud to have walked away.
Labor is not dead, it must stop being a burial ground for failed unionists,Friends of Friends, useless time servers, and it must get more in touch.
Labor must think policy's out then implement,it must understand making policy's to appease the greens cost us votes.
And LABOR must not think Abbott will always be there to save us, he is a dead man walking.
Yes but for a so called CONSERVATION party we would have an ETS.

Kim Beazley might have been smart, but he hid it well. His attempt at continuous negativity similar to Tony Abbotts and Kevin Rudd's was unfocussed and he lost all credibility, which is why he got the axe.

Each labor opposition leader provided continuous opposition just like Tony Abbott is doing, just not as well. Tony Abbott makes sense to the majority, where Juliar does not.

Houlley
How did my words portray any satisfaction with the current government?
The government is playing into the Opposition's hands and histrionics on both sides aren't cutting it for most voters.

This is nothing to do with Lefties or Righties, not everything can be perceived through this narrow prism.

How do you think the Opposition is handling the Carbon Tax issue?

Pelican "How do you think the Opposition is handling the Carbon Tax issue?"

How it handles it inopposition is irrelevant

How it will handle it once in power, is simple

the "carbon tax" fiasco will be a dead duck... as expired as Julias political career and as high on the nose as Windsor and Upshott, two men already perceived as "Dead Men Walking". And the Greens lust for power will like Bob BRown, a small, sad, nonevent.

Howard skillfully avoided the stupidity of Carbon tax and the fraud inherent in "emmissions trading".

In summary, the liberal / coalition proved, in the decade they ran this country, that they have the capability to govern

Krudd, Julia and the rest of the power crazed wannabes have spent 4 years proving they cannot

Ah pelican, as I said, the opposition is irrelevant. It is not some dress rehearsal for government, keeping anyone to account, or providing a feasible alternative. It NEVER has been.

The government tries to use the opposition as a smoke screen. The opposition is under no obligation to come up with any policy, or impress anyone or do anything constructive until an election campaign, and most times not even then as it isn't possible to cost things with scant info. You spent a half sentence in disclaimer about the actual government and 3 paragraphs to slam the opposition and Mr Rabbit. That about sums up your average Labor/Greens supporter. Actually one might add the average government minister

'How it handles it inopposition is irrelevant'

At least Col gets it.

'Krudd, Julia and the rest of the power crazed wannabes have spent 4 years proving they cannot'

Amen. This is the relevant issue.

I agree with Houlie that Kevin and Julia have not ruled well, and I admit that I had always been a Liberal voter up until the last two elections, when I voted for anyone else than either of the major party's.

However, I have never felt so strongly against a man in politics as I have about Abbott. I simply can't stand the sight of the man, or his incessantly negative brand of politics, or his (puke) speedo's!

I live for the day when somebody, anybody, in the Liberal Party takes over from the Abbott...

Col you seem content to be an unlovable person, are you equally happy to be seen as one who knows so little about most subjects.
Those of us left of Abbott's branch of the American tea party,are aware Howard took and ETS to his last election.
We too know at that time Abbott[then again he has held every side on every issue] Turnbull/Hockey/ and about a third of to days conservatives did want it too.
The standard of public debate is poor, from a live ABC TV interview with a rather lost Hockey yesterday.
Nice young thing, question or statement?* to Hockey talking of Swan, he did seem to ignore such and such what did you think about that*
Australian? most likely they long ago stopped hiding the nature of their propaganda.
See nice young girl was putting her views, in her question, yes Labor is in trouble.
But look at just what this country gets if we fall, Col you may even get a ministry.
Gillard has to go and will.
But only if my party puts its followers/country/history first.
And confronts the worst opposition in our country's history.

Belly,

This is definitely the worst government in living memory. The opposition is streets ahead in every field.

http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/essential-report/

As per the last poll, the voters trust the coalition over the government in every field except IR.

The Labor party is driven purely by self interest, it has no principle it is not prepared to ditch if convenient, and is beholden to a 24hr news cycle, a handful of inflated independent egos, and the barking greens.

They are not competent to run a cake sale let alone a country. The ALP MPs that are not corrupt are incompetent or beholden to other interests including their own.

I have no issue with governments being held to account - that is a job for the voters as well as any Opposition party.

The way a party behaves in Opposition is not irrelevant as far as making choices at the next election. Behaviour in opposition reveals much about the calibre and competency of those who might one day be charged with governing the country. At the moment there is not much satisfaction to be found in the Coalition.

I was watching Joe Hockey's performance in an interview recently and likeable as he might be, he failed to answer any question with an honest response, showing himself the master of evasion. I don't want more of the same - there are already enough spin politicians on both sides.

The truth is there is not much to choose between the two majors at the moment. Maybe people will get desperate and vote for the Australia Party even if Katter is as mad as a cut snake.

There is a huge gap that could easily be filled by new parties willing to shake up the complacency of spin politics and who are committed to democracy over the sport of winning at all costs.

Dear Pelly,

I think the Coalition underestimates the intelligence and understanding of your average voter. We are more than the sum of our personal wants and interests. We know life is more complex than just giving us everything we want, and telling us what we want to hear.

Australians are not stupid and they can spot a con-man a mile off - all teeth and abs. As another reader stated on the web - "I've always felt that Tony Abbott would be far more at home as a bouncer in the
smokey corridors of a nighclub than in the comforting halls of the Melbourne Club."

Lexi even when I am down,and the black dog has shown his presents a bit of late you brighten me up.
I too thought that of our voters, embraced it, and supped on very bitter reality.
Most of us do think do know do understand.
And we are far from beaten yet, we are outstandingly the better side.
But the whole point of Abbott and his like behavior is that some,not many, but too many, get information from shock jocks the newspaper the fish and chips comes in.
Next week Parliament sits again Gillard will make ground again.
But the dunny door lining Conservative press will knowingly willingly lie.
They will take both sides of the live cattle debate,to flog Labor.
They will be uninterested in the true claims and nature of Abbott.
I will continue to push/drag/shove my party but we are not dead .
I promise the Shadow Ministers are recruiters for Labor.

Do come on you pair.

How could you say the Oz voter is intelligent? over half of them voted first for Rudd, then almost half of them voted for Gillard.

No one in their right mind, who had thought about it, for more than 2 minutes in the polling booth, could ever have voted for either of them.

Now you have a real chance. Just get Turnbull to join Katter, & help with the new party. I won't join, but I will watch.

Belly “Col you seem content to be an unlovable person, are you equally happy to be seen as one who knows so little about most subjects.”

Well Belly, how pretentions of you to make such comment

As for “loved” – trust me, my super-exotic, show pony wife, who sports two medical degrees and an IQ of 170, provides me with more “Love “ than many could handle

As for me “knowing little” – again – your presumption is founded solely on your own personal ignorance –

I suggest you consider how such baseless and worthless opinions promote you as an unhappy inadequate and possibly envious individual

“And confronts the worst opposition in our country's history.”

I suppose the Liberals do suffer in Opposition – they are the natural party of government, afterall.

Conversely, “Opposition” is the natural home of the Socialist Malcontents … a place where they can mouth off all they want and be absolutely responsible for nothing.

And let’s face it, the so called “political party” who tried to fly with “Knuckles” Latham has habitually cultivated a depth of desperation which only narcissistic, power-crazed compulsive-obsessive’s can engender.

but do not ignore its successes.
Belly,
i'll always be grateful for Labor's introduction of compulsory Super but I can't think of anything I would describe as a success. Reason being that the great idea of compulsory Super will very soon be just another pot of Gold for them too enticing not to try & dip their fingers into.

Interesting link, Shadow Minister. One thing that is particularly interesting to me is the consistently high response in the "don't know" column, and the fact that neither party achieves more than 50% in ANY of the categories. While the Liberals are trusted over Labor in almost all categories (as you point out), it seems that the general vibe is that they are the lesser of two evils.

I'd like to think that will change by the next election, but for that to happen we'll need somebody (on either side) to stand up, stand for something and show a bit of leadership. I could not offer my support to either party at the last election: our Liberal candidate (and now local member) made all sorts of slimy promises that he couldn't (and won't) keep, and our Labor candidate didn't even take the campaign seriously. As far as I can tell, neither stood for anything at all. When I looked beyond my electorate for inspiration, I found none. I'd hate to fall into the same quandary next time I head to the ballot box.

'I suppose the Liberals do suffer in Opposition – they are the natural party of government, afterall.

Conversely, “Opposition” is the natural home of the Socialist Malcontents '

I think there's a lot of truth in that. The Greens have shown that they really belong in opposition carping from the sidelines.

And as I said before, even 4 years since the 07 election, we have the Labor party still acting like they are in opposition, and the Libs still acting like they were born to rule, throwing their toys around and being disruptive.

The former is the problem, not the latter. I see much more onus on the governmnet to start governing in a confident, mature way than for the opposition to give them a break and nurse them along.

Thanks for the morning chuckle, Col.

>>As for “loved” – trust me, my super-exotic, show pony wife, who sports two medical degrees and an IQ of 170, provides me with more “Love “ than many could handle<<

The mental picture this conjures up, of you sitting in front of your computer and actually pressing the keys to write it, will keep me chortling all day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internet_dog.jpg

Thanks again, and have a great day.

Pericles

You have been awarded OLO's post of the year. Will pop it in the mail once I stop laughing.

Pericles "The mental picture this conjures up, of you sitting in front of your computer and actually pressing the keys to write it, will keep me chortling all day."

I am pleased to tickle your imagination Pericles......

however, anything you can dream up will pale into the shadows compared to the reality

of being loved by an extrordinarily beautiful woman (both externally as well as spiritually)

- you really should try it some time

as for your hyperlink.... you are simply too far off the mark to be funny - using such attachments conveys only a certain "cheapness" on your part

Col,

You've mentioned your "show pony" wife before - usually to enhance yourself in the eyes of whomever you are currently debating....a tad cringe-worthy in my book.

Dear Belly,

I'm so pleased that I was able to brighten up your day. You brighten up mine regularly.

Dear Pericles,

Thanks for making us all laugh. Puts things in their right perspective.

Don't worry about them Col. Maybe they just haven't found the love you have and are just Jealous. It's hard for people to accept you opening up and sharing the joy of your marital bliss.

BTW: I have seen Col's wife, and I can understand why he is a happy man.

Col at this point discretion is the best idea.
I wish you a long and loving relationship.
Some do not get that hope, you do.
And still think of you as unlovable uninformed and in the arms,
Always.
Of Margret Thatcher another unlovable person.

Poirot “Cringe worthy?” please yourself….

Houellebecq “Don't worry about them Col. Maybe they just haven't found the love you have and are just Jealous. It's hard for people to accept you opening up and sharing the joy of your marital bliss.

BTW: I have seen Col's wife, and I can understand why he is a happy man.”

Hi Houellebecq… yes I do recall that picture zooming across the internet …

To my wife, she remains a constant, timeless beauty, not only in my eyes but in the eyes of many females 30 years her junior, who beg for an insight into her beauty secrets.

Belly “And still think of you as unlovable uninformed and in the arms, Always.
Of Margret Thatcher another unlovable person.”

Not so very strangely, Belly, I find I do not think of you at all

As for as for myself and Margaret…

maybe your sense of “unlovableness” is an simply envious dissatisfaction with those who have contributed a beneficial “difference” to the world in which we live

Dear Belly,

Got to laugh. One has love bites on his mirror, and the other can compress the most words into the smallest idea, of any poster on OLO.

Lexi <"...one has love bites on his mirror"

ROFL!
I just wandered by to read what this thread was about, only to have some good laughs reading some of the banter.

Lexi, I will use your quote when amusing myself with some other posters on this site, as well as on some real people in the outside world, if you don't mind?
I just loved it!

Dear Suze,

My pleasure!

Lexi <"...one has love bites on his mirror"

how droll

doubtless, you are not likely to expereince such "tokens" from inside the paper bag

http://www.smh.com.au/national/libs-move-to-dump-abbotts-key-policy-20110613-1g0nc.html
And just maybe for Tiny Tony too.
No surprises it was always clear Mr Abbott had gone far too far with this issue.
My regards Shadow Minister.

Belly,

How about:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/alp-left-takes-on-gillard-20110613-1g0n6.html

Maybe the lying shrew next?

Here Shadow Minister is the difference between me and you.
I regard Doug Cameron as an infestation with in the ALP.
Soon after a current Court case, I intend to post a thread about the bad actions of left unions and the great damage they do, to my party my country and public trust in all unions.
Cameron is such a person, his seat was a reward for being both a grub and a failure.;
I however, will never see such from you about anyone from your side.
However my link builds my case Tony Abbott as a bigger lier than the silly lady running my party ever was.
In fact while I have no intention of defending her, Abbott's lies can be confirmed, the one you quote could be defended,it clearly was a change of mind after other things changed
He knowingly is making commitments almost daily he has no ability or intention of delivering
My regards.

Belly,

Firstly, considering that Abbott has not changed this policy yet, means that your claim is rubbish. Secondly as it was a promise based on forming government after the last election, it would be a policy change not a lie. If they promised it before an election and after winning ditched it, then it would be a lie. Pretty much like the solemn promise not to introduce a carbon tax.

You are really grasping at straws.

Dear Col Rouge,

You stated: "How droll. Doubtless, you are not likely to experience such "tokens" from inside the paper bag."

How droll indeed. However, you'd possibly know more about that sort of thing - having had more experience with proctologists

“Here Shadow Minister is the difference between me and you……

I regard Doug Cameron as an infestation with in the ALP…..
Cameron is such a person, his seat was a reward for being both a grub and a failure……”

I can think of another difference

SM and I

we both have a belief in and agree with the politicians who steward the political party I (at least, not sure about SM) am a member of

conversely, “labor” is just a collection of vested-interest, battle-worn, fighting factions, each with its own agenda and differing hues of redness , than party and however your beige, burgundian or scarlet your personal politics, you are stuck with that communist git Cameron.

I suggest you promote a focus group to see if they like him too…that seems to be the way most decisions are made in Labor… by focus grou

Lexi "How droll indeed. However, you'd possibly know more about that sort of thing - having had more experience with proctologists"

actually my maladies concern loftier matters, Lexi

I see a cardiologist regularly and he even commented recently on how well I was doing b y following my show-pony wifes diet and lifestyle requirements

(actually the "show-pony" is her personal preference but do not presume she is simply for "show". She has two medical degrees (one in western medicine and the other in natural medicines), is an expert in beauty therapies, built up and operated a training business comprising four schools in two states, registered with the state and federal governments as an RTO and CRICOS and has an IQ of 170)

but you talking of proctologists -

I would suggest you make an appointment,

that part of your anatomy must be working extra shifts since, as well as its intended function, you also spend alot of time talking out of it

Have a nice day

Dear Belly,

Have you ever come across a booklet called, "Political Pryorities: How to get on top of Australian Politics," by Dennis Pryor. It's simply superb and rings as true as "Yes Minister." It's a comical, critical, cynical, sceptical, ironical, satirical dictionary of Australian politics. It answers every question you ever wanted to ask about the nongs you're forced to vote for and is designed to be equally offensive to all parties. With his tongue lodged firmly in his cheek Dennis Pryor exposes all the vanity and hypocrisy of our leaders, bureaucrats, journalists and party hacks. It's the voter's revenge on the people who spend their taxes.

As for it at your local library - maybe they can get it in for you.
It puts things into perspective - the low-down on the low-life in Canberra. Australian politics was never as funny as this.

Take care.

Dear Col R.,

Methinks you protest too much Sir!

But that's all-right - considering your age.

As for show-ponies? Bizarre reference. A pony is a childhood dream.
Now a horse is an adulthood treasure -different thing alltogether.
Still I guess a woman need two animals - the horse of her dreams and a jackass to pay for it.

cont'd ...

Dear Col,

So your wife has an IQ of 170?

Wow. That's impressive. Why do men like intelligent women?
I guess it's because opposites attract.

Lexi

ROFL

Your knives are very sharp today.

An IQ of 170 wasted on running a beauty salon out of a garage.

So very sad.

Lexi thanks sounds like my kind of book, will read.
Col! Mate, a hint,take those teeth out before kissing the mirror, scratches mate.
It is another Col day, very wet very cold and windy ,have not been out for 4 days , floods just to my north hope every one is ok.
Now Shadow Minister, I understand, once locked on, like a bull terrier some can never let go, even if its their own rear end they are latched on to.
Like the Liberal Party and its bought and paid for servant the Nationals, Labor has some true fools.
Any union, that has to import its general Secretary's has too.
But from the religious right, to a bank of former ministers who left early after being found to lie to the Parliament you are not behind Labor IN HAVEING LEAD WEIGHT IN YOUR BAG.
Such has presented himself for election as head of your party,and will win on form alone, he lies.
A servant, former deputy Prime minister left hoping, and did, to escape his role in AWB scandal.
I have only one question,after Abbott lands in Thatchers lap, the rubbish tip of past failures ,will you deny you ever supported him
My regards.

Lexi,

I note with concern your glee in attacking the Col in a very personal manner. In trying to claim the moral high ground, you seem happy to wallow in the mud.

Belly,

As for your incoherent post, I would recommend refraining from the cooking sherry before typing.

Juliar/Krudd have done more damage to the Labor party than Tony Abbott ever could, with one stuff up, backflip, and outright lie after another. Another couple of years of this might even see the ALP gaining minor party status.

SM

That's right.

It is perfectly acceptable for Col to make personal comments to others but not for others to reply in kind.

We understand who was 'born to rule' and we take the piss accordingly.

This thread is turning out to be a good laugh.

Have to admit that Col's braggadocio concerning his equine mate is somewhat endearing. Fancy having an IQ of 170!...mine's only 22 (on a good day), so I suppose multiple "medical degrees" are out of my reach...awww.

Ammonite,

Fair enough, but if one does go in for personal attacks, one cannot cry foul when the same is returned.

SM,

You state: "..if one goes in for personal attacks, one
cannot cry foul when the same is returned!"

Exactly!

Hi SM thanks for the support

Rather than respond I will leave Lexi to wallow in her irrelevance

Amonite.. note my comments were not the initial personal ones but made in response to some less than charitable cheap shots vomitted up by Lexi

I see you fail to balance criticism of her in your monocular criticism of me

which is strange-

whilst most people have two eyes and one face

You and Lexi each seem to possess one eye and two faces

Thanks COL.

We get it.

You have a divine right to insult others, but should the 'favour' be returned, you have the 'divine' right to insults others, but should the 'favour' be returned, you have the 'divine' right to insult others, but should the 'favour' be returned...

Col,

It goes both ways.

SM

So good you have noticed that the first 2 posts by Col on your thread consisted of personal insults of politicians he dislikes - no constructive criticism, no cogent comment or debate.

These nasty posts led Belly to comment that Col prefers to cast himself as "unlovable".

Col then saw Belly's comment as reason to boast about what he believes are enviable qualities. As no-one really cares what size his wife, I mean her IQ is, inevitable mockery ensued.

Predictably Col saw this a personal insult - something only he is permitted, apparently, according to Col.

He has since posted personal insults to myself and Lexi for simply mocking his predilection for self-aggrandisement.

No one has to take my word, just reread the posts from the beginning.

Ammonite "You have a divine right to insult others, but should the 'favour' be returned, you have the 'divine' right to insults others, but should the 'favour' be returned, you have the 'divine' right to insult others, but should the 'favour' be returned..."

What can I say

Since you obviously cannot take it

I would suggest you stop trying to hand it out

Col

Do try to keep up. The post to which you refer was posted at 2.36 PM, it took you until 4.08 to post such a wishful little thought of a reply.

You have yet to provide any justification for your insults of the various pollies you have smeared, let alone apologised to Lexi and myself for your vitriol.

To all,

If you are going to insult each other, please try and be subtle otherwise you look like school children. A well scripted barb is an art form whose implication/innuendo stings far more than the simple words. Simple slanging demeans the author more than the victim.

To get back to the topic, the latest polling put Julia Gillard at an all time low. The carbon tax is not fairing any better.

http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/essential-report/

In my first few posts here in OLO I was warned in another forum, about Col.
Col it seems has aways come here to insult.
I once saw an even worse insulter here, but just the one other.
Col has every right to be the person he is.
Opposites do attract, I have my doubts Col has a similar IQ to his loverly wife.
Now SM and Col have NEVER EVER taken the stick to their team.
Today in question time Tony saw his minnows jump to defend him many times, fact is Tony was outed.
Quotes from his past showed he both advised a carbon tax and indeed ETS would be needed then took the other view.
Gentlemen! order in the house! Col Shadow Minister was Abbott using scripts in those speech's,or Terminological Inexactitudes, or just not sure what his policy's are?
PS
If you are going to take the Lady's on in verbal tennis may I Recommend a racket with strings in it?

Ammonite… I see your post to SM (Tuesday, 14 June 2011 3:52:25 PM) identifies how I have taken free shots at public figures, just as everyone else tends to take public shots at public figures ns as has been the case for centuries, my previous reference to Gilray being a case in point.

I note you also acknowledge that far from taking shots at public politicians, Belly decided to initiate a campaign of personal comments toward me, not some public politician.

I am pleased you made that observation.

I am pleased you accept this spate, which seems to have become an obsession of yours and Lexis has been initiated by Belly and one to which you have willingly bullied in to add your own version of irrelevance.

There is no rule which requires me to justify anything I have written of public politicians who pretend to be doing their best (and feebly failing) whilst, in the case of the witch, Gillard, like Keating and Hawke before her has descended to making policy on the basis of lies… I refer to

Gillard – there will be no carbon tax
Keating – Tax cuts are law
Hawke – no child will live in poverty in 1990

I can think of no politican I have “smeared” more than they have defecated over themselves by their own dishonourable statements and in the case of some….. for instance, Bob Collins, deceased Labor Senator for Northern Territory, by their actions

Belly, I came here to debate and make comment. That you decided to initiate this spate by making personal comments of me was entirely your choice.

But like I said previously to ammonite if you cannot take it don’t try to hand it out… it reflects a lack of character on your part….

Of course, we all know, “lack of character” is a hallmark of socialism.

Belly "Taking stick over their team"

Washing soiled laundry in public is the socialist way (there are so many "skid marks" to scrub out)

the positive difference in standards necessitates we of the "right" do not follow suit.

Dear Col R.,

You do like to spice up your posts.

With words like - "Irrelevance, vomit, one eye and two faces, obsession, hallmarks of "socialism," differences in standards, more about "socialism," and even - "we" of the right.

Is that the best you've got?

Lexi "Is that the best you have got"

No it is merely the best I can be bothered with.

However, I am sure you have been on the receiving end of alot worse

Dear Col R.,

Glad to see that you're still awake at this time of night old timer.
I can fully understand why you can't be "bothered," as you've explained. It must be challenging for you to come up with something new - instead of the usual - repetitive same old, same old. Quaint, but gets a bit dull after a while.

As far as my being used to much worse - actually no. The people I usually debate with are quite skilled in the art of reasoned, intelligent arguments. It's a skill not easily acquired.

Good Night - and take it easy.

Lexi "The people I usually debate with are quite skilled in the art of reasoned, intelligent arguments. It's a skill not easily acquired."

Obviously, as you have not acquired it!


enough of this all this playful banter, Lexi....

doubtless, when they put you in your grave you will still be fighting to get the last word in....

but it does not mean anyone, least of all me, is listening

I am afraid Colin I want to get back to the threads subject.
However you do start many fires ,then aim at those who return fire.
It Sir is in your sad nature, seemingly born in an idea you know much more than you actually do.
A thought for you.
If Colin you are in your mind always right.
Then there is no room for improvement, and indeed no need,to catch up with those in front of you.
Rather like being last across the line in the City to surf, lot of bottoms ahead.
Gillard in this poll is even closer to her end,no turn around is coming it is all down hill for her.
My beloved ALP, just has to, like that conservative British one, that dumped Old Maggy, get it done.
Weird but very true, only Tony Abbott has kept her in the job.
Far too many ALP sitting members think Tony will drag Labor over the line, he too is not going to be around very long
My regards Colin.

Back to the subject:

"But Gillard's problem is still Gillard. Her public positions lack private convictions. From opposing a big Australia, gay marriage and a republic to supporting the flag and the importance of religion, Gillard so obviously echoes voters for no other reason than political gain. Her statements on everything from immigration to population are knee-jerk populism, aimed at dominating the media cycle and putting out potential policy bushfires, rather than presenting a genuine narrative about her political beliefs. Gillard darts all over the place depending on what she wants. Hence her opportunistic factional twists, the philosophical shallowness given Gillard has never put pen to paper about her beliefs, and her concomitant policy inconsistencies."

"Voters are not stupid. Gillard is tanking in the polls because her contortions have caught up with her. No one will make a movie about our Incredible Shrinking PM but someone ought to write a short book as a lesson for leaders in what not to do. In the meantime, as Gillard knows only too well, Labor has a history of brutality that the Liberal Party lacks. The ALP doesn't tend to go down with a sinking, shrinking ship. It does something."

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2011/06/15/1226075/321250-110615-fed.pdf

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/shrinking-gillard-is-out-of-step/story-e6frgd0x-1226075230299

The only thing in favour of the Labor government at present is the sheer ineptitude of the Opposition. Like Labor they are not offering anything tangible by way investment into a sustainable future, they would bring back the worst excesses of the Howard era and retain those that should have been scuttled by Labor such as the generous subsidies to private-for-profit schools, the baby bonus and no improvement in effective and humane conduct towards boat refugees.

Labor did manage, under Rudd's leadership, to steer a path through the GFC - something people seem to conveniently forget.

I don't vote for either party, however if I had to choose I would vote Labor due to a complete mistrust of the Libs.

During the Howard years there was:

Deception - Core and non core promises, never-ever GST

Callous Racism - Children overboard, the sinking of SEIV X, Nauru (which would be re-established)

Plagiarism - copying many of the extremes of Pauline Hanson's policies

Neopotism - Bail out of Howard's brother's company.

This is just off the top of my head, there was more, much more.

Col

I am here to help:

An insult (also called a putdown or called a snap) is an expression, statement (or sometimes behavior) which is considered degrading and offensive.

Your posts are full of ......... them.

Therefore, you reveal you are not sincerely interested in debate, just denigration.

Either take a good look at the Libs without your rose-coloured glasses or stop wasting time here. Same goes for Shadow Minister - the Libs have never been perfect. I would respect some honesty from both of you, but you are so mired you cannot see. That Labor has moved further to the so-called 'right' is beyond your capacity to observe - you appear stuck in an 80's political climate.

And for the record:

Dear Maggie believes in climate change and thinks Sarah Palin is "nuts".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/09/margaret-thatcher-sarah-palin-meeting

Ah Belly your reference to dearest Margaret

the difference between the walking weasel (reference to Gissards use of obtuse motherhood statements to illustrate matters of compete irrelevance) and dearest Margaret

Margaret achieved much, especially cleaning out the rusty iron of institutionalised national industry and leaving the tax resources back into people pockets (instead of the pockets of unionised national parasite industries, set up by incompetent and corrupt socialists of the past)

Julia has

been party to the distaster of Krudd and Co economic stupidity.

Stabbed Kruddy in the back to save the top job for herself and is now

screwing it up even more and using even more "Advisers" to do so

she is as worthless as Whitlam as her unpopularity holds testament to

SM "Voters are not stupid. Gillard is tanking in the polls because her contortions have caught up with her."

I understand on her CV she lists under special interests:

limbo dancing under the belly of an earth worm

btw could you work out who Belly meant when he referred to "Colin" ?

if you did, maybe advise me

Colin I see your pain brother, try a nice cup of tea before posting.
Both Shadow minister and your self [by the way well said Ammonite] need to revisit my first comments about our Julia.
Now yes she is our first woman Prime Minister.
And was once a hard headed front line defender of workers and human rights.
She very much had Abbott's measure before they both became the leaders party's have if they do not truly want one.
I take great heart, at the fact you both are quite right,she can not last.
No sharp knife needed here she is doing the Job herself,just watch her combative speech about the cattle industry and ask your self how she can do such a bad job of a so very important issue.
Julia could not take my party to an election victory if it was a raffle and she bought every ticket.
No such words, about your side WILL EVER BE UTTERED BY my combative mates Colin or SM
Unlike my mates Colin and SM I demand better from my party.
After all AUSTRALIA PLEASE CONSIDER,without change Tiny Tony could be Prime Minister!

Dear Col R.,

So glad to read your reference to "playful panter." At last you're attempting to head in the right direction (no pun intended). As for your reference to getting the last word in - I didn't realize this was some sort of competitition and in any case on the law of averages because of the difference in our ages I imagine my getting the last word in would be the natural sequence of things anyway.

When I first joined OLO I was told by some people that you were an asset. I believed them. But reading your recent posts - I can now see they were off by two letters.

Dear Belly,

It's hard for Col R., to get the big picture. He has such a small screen.

Financial experts tell us, Abbott's claim that "since the middle of 2009, interest rate rises have added $500 a month to mortgage repayments," is a lot of economic twaddle. Housing interest rates have risen by about 2 percent since mid-2009, but mid 2009 was the middle of the global financial crisis. It's a credit to the Government that it handled the GFC so well that we didn't have to push official interest rates down to US levels (near zero), which would have caused severe problems as interest rates recover to normal levels."

Housing interest rates are now lower than they were when the Howard government left office. His claim that interest rates will fall if he brings in a large budget surplus, as the Howard government did (while leaving us with a severe deficit in our infrastructure and in our institutional, environmental and social capital - depleting our assets), shows how little he understands the working of financial markets."

"Abbott refers to that cash surplus of the Howard government as "70 billion in net assets," displaying a difficulty in understanding just what an asset is. One would expect a government in office during a cyclical boom to accumulate a budget surplus, as the Howard government did, but it did so by leaving us as stated previously, with a severe deficit in our infrastructure and in our instituional, environmental and social capital. The Howard government depleted our assets."

The financial experts summ things up in the following way: "To put the basic arithmetic as simply as possible, we cannot go on letting middle-class welfare squeeze our public expenditire, at the cost of our government services and public investment. If we are to prosper we need a mix of public and private services and of public and private investment. A "left" leaning government would be inclined to sustain welfare outlays, using taxes to pay for public services. A "right" leaning government would be inclined to finance public services out of cuts to welfare."

"It's hard for Col R., to get the big picture. He has such a small screen."

(Actually all the PCs on our wireless network are now equipped with an additional monitor to make them "dual screened", to improve the efficiency/useability)

but better my "small screens" than your small mind, lexi

Regarding "Financial Experts" you quote,

I ponder who they might be ?

Probably those members of the Fabian Society (thats like an "expert" for the trailer-park lefties) who know how to use a $2.oo calculator with a memory function.

I know the real "financial experts" I dine with and know on a first name basis hold different views.... but then, they are not driven by the blind socialist envy of those people who know how to make their own way in life.

Lexi it was not spelt that way my first information about Colin.
Fabian, nearly as old as reds under the bed and twice as silly.
Note however our Colin has tickets on himself.
I rather fantasy he may own a printer to make them, top draw of course the best.
The paper however appears rather like that soft stuff in the little room out the back
My Regards Colin.
PS Julia was not very good today but Tony was not too.

Dear Col R.,

You really do have delusions of adequacy. Glad that you felt
it necessary to explain about your big screen - it's still no
indication of a keen mind though - it may simply mean your eyesight's
failing, and things are clearer on a "big" screen. Or you're
over-compensating.

As for financial experts...

Actually the financial experts that I associate with are CEOs - and
they work in the world of finance - unlike accountants who
merely do simple arithmetic and adjust the books so as to make profits look like losess for tax purposes and make losses look like profits to fool shareholders. They have their uses - especially
for the rank and file.

As for socialists? - you really need to get out of the time warp that
you're in. It's a bit embarrassing having you continually prattle on with the same old mantra in each of your posts. Come on - be a bit more inventive and learn to walk forward - hard as it may be for you.

I dont know who this Colin bloke is Belly... but you do seem to be fixated on him - next you will be stalking him I guess

Lexi "Glad that you felt it necessary to explain about your big screen"

Obviously, there is something small about your cognitive ability because if you re-read my post, you would see I claimed no big screen on my PC... merely dual screens - those of us who use PC for more than posting trite comment on OLO, playing solitaire or writing letter to the Gruaniad (thats the UK Guardian - the rename was a Private Eye invention of about 40 years ago, when someone noticed all the Grauniad spelling errors) - actually lexi, if you want a good UK Paper to read - try the Telegraph, I used to read it daily when working in Mayfair and then bought the international edition here for a few years, these days I get around the Telegraph Blogs... try James Delingpoles blog there... you will see he and I and alot of other people share my view -

and the Guardian is generally rated as being like the Mrs Beaton without the cake recipes, ie designed for post-menopausal women of either gender.

actually, if you do want to talk about a big screen, we do have a back projector TV which is 1.5 metres ... fortunately it is in our ballroom, which, at 14 squares, is big enough for us to see everything in comfort.

"Actually the financial experts that I associate with are CEOs"

Ah, I understand, they each own their own 7-11 and answer to the name Mohammad

But trust me, I know how to walk forward... and dance tango for that matter...

so we have established I can walk and dance... now if you really concentrate maybe hire a physiotherapist, you might be able to lift your knuckles and stop dragging them behind you and through the drool trail.

Keep 'em coming Lexi, it is amusing to watch you fail to turn tricks

Dear Col R.,

No. why bother. There's no enjoyment any more.
There's nothing new. It's all too predictable
and I'm bored. See you on another thread.

Col I too leave the thread, having returned fire I at least understand I have fallen in to bad habits.
It is childish of me to address my thoughts to some one so immovable.
We may meet in other threads I recommend for you the newest one,about some what overly self impressed people.
Well worth a read.
Your Tobacco one has taken a turn,rather sharp one toward reality.
May see you there regards.

WTF was the topic about?

Oh yeah, knives being sharpened for Julia Gillard. Like that never happens to anyone in power.

Bored now. Moving on.

'actually, if you do want to talk about a big screen, we do have a back projector TV which is 1.5 metres ... fortunately it is in our ballroom, which, at 14 squares, is big enough for us to see everything in comfort.'

Hahhaa.

Cheers Col.