I would like this to be a review not unlike the one the party its self is running.
Understanding some will contribute their dislike for my party,even bury it.
But in my posts, if the thread gets a start,I will talk of our current problems and possible ways of stabilizing the party.
First who are todays ALP.
I am well aware reality has its place,prime position , in any debate.
Unions and working class, if we have such a thing, can not control directions of a party that wants to rule.
But right now in its rush away from average Aussie my party is in festered with academics and Lawyers teachers and middle class.
Our branches are as interesting and attractive as spending the night up to your arms in cow dung.

Labor if it is to govern must understand its recent history is not looking very good.
Kim was under mined by lessor people and he alone was the party's hope.
Latham had his team and won support of the dreamers, for a very brief time me too.
He left a fragmented party, still infected with his and Creans team.
Along Came Kevin Rudd, for the first time after Hawk and Keiting left we looked to have a leader and directions.
That promise was no less a mist that dried up in the early morning sun than was Mark Latham.
And undermined by exactly the same team that pushed big Kim out the window.
Now as the states fall, as we see our future is on the opposition bench's those who broke our heart so many times are holding the wheel.
Labor must plan to rule for every Australian, make policy's that gain votes not bleed them away.
Focusing on the unfairness of Medea and Abbott is time wasting.
Not responding to deliberately awful statements and question from Medea gutless.
ABC TV news headlines Government is considering a $40 price on carbon, a total lie why not ask news reporters this question.
*that question is untrue, is it your stated opinion in the form of a question*
At conference I went in groups, the purpose of the group was to carry a vote, to vote as told.
At the NSW power sell off one I was chastised for wearing a protest shirt, as was my mate an official too.;
We voted against our boss and from that day every one was escorted to the Sunday polling and watched as they voted.
Is that not a stupid way to let a few get power over the many?
My party needs a broom a leader and some one to deport every policy Maker we currently use, one at least can be done with leadership change.
The Australian Labor Party is not the property of any playgroup, it is indeed time, for change.

Shortly after the birth of the greens, assisted by Hawks saving the Franklin River, we had a refuge for ALP voters.
That refuge also had every Left wing idealist from Socialist to Communist on board.
For some time it did not matter.
But increasingly its leaders took the Axe to the ALP, convinced confrontation gained them voters.
It is past time, very much so, for Labor to let this party ride on its back.
We grinned as One Nation took Conservative votes, pretended we did not see it took some of ours too.
Squealed like a pig after Howard let Abbott loose to kill them,and steal their policy's in part.
We must come down of our high horse get dirty and fight the greens.
Every preference we get sees two votes leave us, forever, our voters are not of the left.
Our branches wither and die, still, not that any party branches are other than stacking sink holes.
Lets have local members visit a different branch every meeting, let every member have a few minutes in private to put concerns that will receive answers to him/her.
Make the branches teams, get those leaders back yard BBQ out to race meetings public parks neutral ground fun places not a judgment from self appointed leaders.
Being nice to minority's is good but not listening to majority's is just dumb.

What are you trying to do Belly? Get ordinary Aussies to tell you what's wrong with the ALP and then take the feedback to your masters so they can fix the mess? If so, then I'm afraid it won't work Belly. The ALP have become trolls and stooges for big business just the same as the Liberal Party has.

I was a member of the ALP until just a few years ago, yet I left the party disillusioned and resentful. I had several issues with them including their pandering to big agri-business such as Monsanto and allowing GM seeds and products to contaminate the organic growing industry. Common sense should have told them (at least based on the American experiment) that it's impossible to stop contamination, but oh no! The ALP had to kneel before their might of Monsanto (and others) and allowed the wretched stuff into the country.

And yes, that's one of my pet hates, but not everyone thinks the same way, but it wasn't that alone that made up my mind to desert the ALP.

When I resigned, I wrote my letter of resignation to the Victorian Secretary of the ALP, but got no feed-back or recognition of my resignation. "Thanks for nothing" I thought to myself and moved on. I was dismayed to find the scum Vic branch then took another years fee and hoisted them onto my credit card. I wrote a scathing letter to the secretary and once again, got no reply!

Eventually I had to phone (at my expense since they didn't have a 1800 number) and it took ages to find anyone who could do anything about it. I lost my unsolicited membership fee, but was pleased that the matter had finally drawn to a conclusion. I vowed never to vote for the miserable bathplugs again!

Continued....

Did they care at the time? Would they care now? Nope! I'm just one little worker and they don't know or care if I'm dead or alive. Nobody ever wrote to ask why I left the party in disgust. Not a peep, not a word! That's not how you do business. If you have a disgruntled member of a work team, then you do all you can to make that member productive by working through issues, not by elbowing them aside.

I had many other issues with Labor at the time, too many top list here, but since I no longer felt I could rely on the party I grew up with and thought even less of the Liberals, then who could I vote for at all? What's the point of voting when my vote can become a preference for some other mob I think even less of? To me, preferential voting is a farce!

When your back is to the wall and you feel you don't have a friend in politics, then you have three choices. One is to vote for an unheard of party, the other is to cast a blank or intentionally invalid vote, the other is to vote for the lesser of three evils and for a lot of people, that third choice was to vote for the Greens.

If I was allowed to swear here Belly, I'd aim a tirade right at the Labor Party for casting aside the ideals that once made them a "stand alone" party and not just one of the rest of the brawling rabble that constitutes the Liberal and National Parties.

Up the lot of 'em I say!

Hi Belly,

Did you by any chance happen to watch Q and A last night?
Way to go Bill Shorten, Anna Rose, and Judge Felicity Hampel, and audience. As Bill Shorten stated - Labor is in for the long haul,
and they are doing well. Their 2011-12 Budget will get Australia back in the black, get more people in jobs and spread opportunities in the mining boom to more Australians. They will build a bigger workforce and more targeted investments in skills and training and put in place measures to encourage participation.

Don 't fall for the rubbish that being espoused by the Libs. Their technique is to tear down the Gillard government but if you look at the polls - they're not building Tony Abbott's. His personal approval also fell in Newspoll. They criticise Gillard for "backflips," buyt heck - they conveniently overlook the two-faced nature of Tony Abbott's responses on any number of issues.

Some people seem to forget that some of the problems for the government at the moment are that they have to be busy governing. They also need to take everything past the Independents and the crossbenches at every opportunity. It's a hard line to actually live to see a program through, let alone sell it. However, further down the track when good outcomes do result - fear mongering and no policies, will not be able to compete with positivwe outcomes.

The Libs should give Tony Abbott the "election" he craves. Elect a new leader. There are two words that just may save their party -
"Malcolm Turnbull!" Abbott's last desperate grasp for power hasn't worked in the past and it certainly won't work in the future. The sooner his party realises that - the sooner they may be able to salvage something. "Blah, Blah, Blah," doesn't work. Australian voters
realize that.

cont'd ...

I forgot to remind you Belly of some quotes from the web:

"Although there isn't an election due until 2013 - Tony Abbott would like to see one take place much earlier. Straight away actually.
If we elect the Liberal Party with Abbott as leader in 2013 - we will have reached an historical apex of venal stupidity..."

And another - on electing the Libs:

"Historians will view the Australian people circa 2011 - as a bunch
of greedy-bloody-minded-ethically bankrupt-sheep."

To further confirm these opinions - Ben Eltham also tells us:

"Obviously the Opposition leader has decided to maximise his advantage on "economic management" by invoking the "Glorious Howard Age," and avoid commiting himself to anything substantive on economic policy in the here and now."

"As a political tactic its clearly designed to keep the focus on the
government and to change the subject without addressing the questions posed about savings and to maintain of course the constant election frenzy Abbott likes to conjure up."

Contrary to what's been written $150,000 a year is not an "average Aussie income." Anyone earning $150,000 - puts them in the top 3 per cent of tax payers by income (at least in 08-09). Ignore the budget
critcisms. Every budget contains things to criticise but overall this one's good. The big tick items are in - mental health, vocational education and training, regional infrastructure, workplace participation initiatives such as employer subsidies to give the long-term unemployed a job. With the 2011 budget, Wayne Swan had elivered a responsible, credible, progressive financial blueprint for the next 3 years.

The Opposition's performance in respone has been woeful. Their one-dimensional tactics of single-mindedness only shows their empty policy cupboard. And who in their right-mind is going to fall for that.

Review what? What values does this Australian Labor Party have? ….evolving ones depending on the daily mis management crisis.
First fact to face is that the party is littered with immoral criminals. This list for you again Belly, and the last immoral sod only got lumbered a couple of weeks ago, it is current.

Rex Jackson accepting bribes
Milton Orkopoulos offences including child sex and drugs
Richard Face Making false statements to the ICAC
Valerio Zanotto convicted of corruption
Merri Rose Blackmail
Gordon Nuttall receiving secret commissions
Angela D’Amore rorting parliamentary expenses
Karen Struthers Drink driving
Bill D'Arcy child sex offences
Ian Macdonald theft of taxpayer funds
Carolyn Hirst Drink driving
Carolyn Hirst Drink driving and driving whilst disqualified
Brian Burke misappropriating public funds
David Campbell resigned after being filmed leaving a gay sauna,
David Parker perjury
Noel Marlborough Lying to the Corruption and Crime Commission
Merri Rose extortion
Keith Webb Wright convicted rapist
Karyn Paluzzano dismissed for rorting parliamentary expenses
Jeffrey Shaw negligent driving and driving while drunk
Kiril Janovsski convicted of corruption
Matthew Chesher/ Verity Firth drugs
Adem Somyurek Labor Party Driving whilst disqualified
Paul McLeay quit cabinet admitting to viewing online porn
Brenton Best Drink driving
Gordon Nuttall charged with corruption
And finally this one from only a week or two back,…Unnamed Labor MP(BF)taken into police custody charged with child pornography offences.
TBC

TBC

Second, the manipulation of the NSW Labor right. They shafted Beasley, Unsworth, Iemma, Rees, Rudd and a load of up and comers that did not like the direction the party was going. Today I hear that the NSW upper house vacancy is being pushed towards a barrister, who won’t take the job unless he can earn a quid on the side…real commitment, just the “money is everything” lawyer bastard I want representing me and passing laws.

Here is a name to chew on Belly if you are looking for change ….Sam Dastyari, still there still calling the shots….nationally. You watched the likes of Tripodi, Obeid, Bitar and Della Bosca to name but a few take your party and use it for direct benefit of their friends and cousins. This is what Sartor said on the way out,

“Retiring MP Frank Sartor said the Right faction has been about rewarding friends and running caucus like a lolly shop. Sartor said the ''fix'' to put Robertson in the leadership had been ordained months ago.”

Belly, if you can’t see what is and has been wrong with your party, why ask us? The poor sods who have seen it and experienced it in this Premier state that had a lower growth percentage than Tasmania last quarter. Go to Canberra; ask the socialist press gallery, they will tell you what you want to hear.

Here is one for you Lexi"
Lexi: >>Every budget contains things to criticize but overall this one's good.<<

Thank you for your valued opinion. My opinion regardless of what Swan says dreams or regurgitates is that five years ago we had a 20 BILLION surplus and this critically acclaimed budget is coping with the largest Commonwealth deficit this country has experienced since federation. My judgment would be that the ones who ran up this out of control debt (we are borrowing the interest payment for god sake) have a snowballs chance in achieving anything anytime. If you do not recognize this, then so be it.

Dear SOG,

Very interesting. It appears you have a lot of time to sit in law courts and take notes. Could you now list the judges, lawyers,
and the courts that have been associated with these accusations?
Or maybe you're a regular in the prison system and you get the information first-hand from the in-mates? Waiting to hear from you.

cont'd ...

One more thing SOG...

Do you realise that by publishing such lists on an open forum you may be libel to prosecution. Recently Darryn Hinch has been charged for a lot less.

Lexi, be a bit more specific, are you challenging the names and the deeds associated with them, given I gleaned the information from public record tell me what you doubt and I will qualify it for you...many thanks.

Dear SOG,

The Liberals build up a surplus by taking cutting back on essentials like - hospitals, roads, rail, schools, aged-care, and a whole litany of essential services. You don't achieve a suplus unless you have cutbacks, as Pericles pointed out on another thread. But saying that you had a surplus - does sound good.

As a result of the cutbacks and the damatge caused by this surplus and the global financial crisis - the government had no choice but to utilise the surplus to repair the damage, keep Australia out of the world recession, and in the process create jobs.

Now if that is a bad reflection on the present government then by all means go back to the "Glorious Howard years."

As for the list that you keep presenting - I don't see the relevance regarding the current government and their set agenda for this country. It was afterall individuals who committed these offences and not the government in office. It smacks of a rather cheap-shot to me -
and un-fitting behaviour for any fair-minded person.

Lexi you’re abrogating of responsibility from the corium to the individual does have legs if the indiscretions are infrequent and isolated, but Labor has an ongoing track record.

I researched the number of coalition members indiscretions while in office over the same period and there were a hand full, and most of them were Nat Party MP's from Qld, and that is no surprise.

Re your astute comment that the Libs take from hospitals, roads, rail, schools, aged-care etc to build in a surplus has validity, but your inference is that this Commonwealths monumental deficit came from investment in social and communal infrastructure, and it has not if value for spend and best possible outcomes are the yard stick for competency and ROI.

Billions wasted on batts, $900,000 demountable sheds without air conditioning for the stupid public schools (the private and Catholics spent their money wisely, but they had that choice) solar rebates, millions spent on grocery and petrol watch, billions now spent on asylum criminals, a record BILLION dollars spent on spin and bullsheiser PR co’s and consultants etc and etc and etc .

Lexi as I drive down my new road past the no waiting Federally managed hospital right next to one of the many aged care facilities that have sprung up near the new interstate rail network, which is adjacent to the new child care facility conveniently near the new Aboriginal housing complex situated within a kilometer of the new GP Super Clinic I will consider your comments on how well this lot have spent the money we had, along all they could borrow since that went, at a rate of $120 million a day, day in day out to this very day, and tomorrow, and next week, month, year.

Lexi this is serious stuff in a way never before seen in Australia so post grad ideological rhetoric and defense of an indefensible position if the facts are not your terms of reference is simplistic and ego serving.

Dear SOG,

Fair enough. We can only see things the way we chose to. And do what we think is best for ourselves and our families.

cont'd...

Dear SOG,

Here's a few quotes to sum things up in a nutshell:

Perhaps you won't regard them as simplistic or ego-serving:

"The politicians of both the Coalition and the ALP have performed well at what they set out to do. Both need to hold the centre, for without middle Australia, each is done for. Both are redistributive parties. The Coalition wants the growing inequality of income, wealth and power distribution to keep going. The ALP wants to tone it down a bit. The Coalition is made up of AGW denialists, and hence the home insulation scheme to them was a total waste of money.

The ALP endorses AGW, and its home insulation scheme was by and large successful, but it was naively managed and rorted to buggery by the sort of "entrepreneurial" cowboys who are Abbott's natural constituency.

Why do we have two parties, each saying much the same thing? Because a stick has two ends: a proverbial sh**ty one, and a sweet one. Each party tries to hand the other's constituency the end it prefers they have. The Coalition does that best, I grant you."

The question you need to ask yourself SOG is - do the Libs have better policies than Labor? Anything else is irrelevant.

<< Our branches are as interesting and attractive as spending the night up to your arms in cow dung. >>

Ooow, that sounds nice!

Belly, given that I like the smell of cow poo (I’ve done lots of work out there in the rangelands on cattle grazing properties), I might have to go along to an ALP meeting and check it out.

Oh hold on, I’d have to be a member wouldn’t I.

Well, that will never happen…………unless the ALP embraces the philosophy of one of their members –

Kelvin Thomson, Federal Labor member for Wills.

THIS, Belly, is the CRUCIAL point. If the ALP can embrace genuine sustainability, including a stable population, and an economy that is not based on never-ending growth, instead of worshipping this MADNESS of continuous expansionism with no bloody end in sight, THEN they will resonate with the Australian populace and win great acclaim!

If they can’t do this, they will continue to be held in contempt.

Whichever major party sees the light and divorces themselves from this INSANE continuous growth mantra will win the day, well and truly.

Aime knew some one like you would wander in.
Sorry but on the evidence of your post good by.
SOG, again you prove not every one who posts has any understanding/manners/or original thoughts, good by too.
Ludwig Lexi.
My position in the ALP is that of a mouse waiting till everyone leaves to hunt for crumbs.
But I will continue to offer the ideas of a foot soldier of 48 years.
80% of voters are committed, know who they will vote for always, nothing can change them.
The Greens, as they become more extreme, are dying,just watch.
Swingers unlike my opponents,are not leaving Labor because they are too much like the conservatives.
But because they are seen, but not for much longer too close to the greens.
The box full of lost causes they have become.
Labor is,always was the party of constructive change.
We fail to sell our success, we take it for granted voters understand.
We opened the banking system,a hundred platforms put in place by Labor.
Abbott and his Medea mates are selling shadows, but those swingers are buying them.
The very left, foot stamping holding their breath left are hurting Labor,and every issue left of center, in a RAGE!
Because they are unable to understand middle Australia will always elect governments and they are at best wreckers.
Labor must continue to bring change and follow the voters not the lost property box that is the left.

Lexi and Belly my diatribe has never been pro the Coalition, my leanings are social democrat and my expectation is a competent government that holds the future of the Australian electorate as the prime consideration. This government caters to the UN and the Fabian doctrine of world "oneness", this doctrine does not seek to elevate the chaff to grain status, it wants the grain to become chaff, the lowest common denominator is the goal.

Belly>>80% of voters are committed, know who they will vote for always, nothing can change them.<<

Belly this is not a fact as exampled by the last federal pole, the last state polls and the news polls. Only the implacable simpleton sticks to the "my party right or wrong" mind set. You describe yourself as a Labor foot soldier but you are the same as every other Australian...just collateral damage to this post graduate ideological government.

Dear SOG,

Ever since I was first able to vote I voted for the Liberal Party. I followed the family tradition. However, with time, and observing Liberal Goverment and policies I began to see that the Party did not really represent the needs of the greater majority of people. And despite every effort to understand the logic of many of the Liberal policies I concluded that the Party did not deserve my support.

That does not mean that I will not support a government that has the interest of the greater Australian nation no matter what the government's persuasion. However I will not support the current Liberal Party leadership that have so far not demonstrated any logical policies beneficial to the nation.

I still feel the after-effects of the Howard government, and in Victoria the disasters casued by the Kennett government. The best government for this nation would be a government formed by people with no party affiliations who would work in the interests of the entire nation and not in the interests of the party support base.

Dear Belly,

For me this thread has run its course. I'll see you on another thread.

Understand Lexi.
ALP has not sold its self Medea is giving Abbott a free run.
Some who should be at war with him are actively supporting him.
Labor must remind over and again, Abbott's carbon reduction is to cost 30 billion dollars.
Not paid by emitters but tax payers!
He is not taking the mining tax? who makes up the lost income.
Tony is to fund high income mums and dads with baby leave.
He,Howard,Rudd, Gillard waste cash by funding increased births but not at welfare problems about to harm our country.
Look at Abbott's promises,see he can not fund them tell the world ALP every day every inter view the lies are screaming to be seen.
I am in no way shocked to know some true left are unable to count.
Two party preferred is 44/56 after preferences labor about 34 primary vote and conservatives about 52 86%
Greens 10 others are mostly throw away as not counted invalid.

Condolences on this post Lexi. I enjoy reading your perspectives on most subjects.

Neither of the major parties have our interests at heart.They would sell their mothers for an extra vote.It is time for a new political party Belly.

Aime and Arjay have echoed my thoughts.

Belly the ALP have the potential to do so much more but will they, after their big conference, revisit their roots and egalitarian values. As Aime states the ALP, like the Conservative parties have got into bed with vested interests and have forgotten who they represent.

To be fair many politicians do believe getting into bed with big business is the way to best serve the electorates but they are just plain wrong. Big business do not have the interests of the citizenry at heart and they don't represent anyone but their own interests.

Trouble is there is no real leadership in either party. It was painful watching Joe Hockey respond to the Budget. More opposition for opposition's sake with no real meaty analysis of the Budget and offering better alternatives. The Liberals have no better alternative. They cannot even cost their own offerings.

You would think a Labor Party with a high membership from the union movement would stand for something but alas many of them are perpetuating the same neo-liberal line and have become careerists first and representatives last.

The ALP can learn from their failures but will they? From a once committed Labor voter there needs to be a major overhaul of values including reviewing Australia's place in a globalised world.

The ALP just needs to grow a spine and stick with some of the better policies like the Murray Darling Basin Plan, Sustainable Population and the Mining Tax. These policies, among others, have been watered down under pressure from big interest groups.

For my penny's worth, the test should be integrity and like Aime said bowing to big companies like Monsanto, Big Tobacco (watch them pressure the ALP out of plain packaging) or issues around food labelling are just some examples where the government (both parties) fail miserably.

I would love the ALP to regroup and get rid of the Keating baggage but are they sufficiently motivated to replace the spin with substance.

Well I do not agree Pelican, never ever could find common ground with the rude and crudeness of Aime.
Nor the lost nature of our proud ex prison in mate.
Yes Labor is different than it was in 1955, 1965, 1970, but it was in opposition in those years.
We have had new party's arjay,you must remember the promise of the Democrats.
The brief flickering flame that was one nation.
We see the greens,once bound for higher sliding to wards a sidelined shell.
Labors adoption of even harder than Howard's off shore refugees answer tells us much.
I have different wants and wishes than my party's mainstream.
Cheaper solar power for any one who wants it but no profit making pay backs.
A form of work not the dole for every unemployed person.
End the baby bonus but no tax on food clothing and education for new children.
Carbon? ETS Nuclear power[Japan built on sand we will not]
UNIONISTS they do not control the ALP few are members except in QLD a very good leader has his members in branches no other can.
Now you see My views are different,I could add more,but my party is the ALP not the Belly's dream team.
It and only it, can be elected instead of conservatives.
No new party can do more than take votes from one or the other,give power to the other side.
Labor can not drift away from middle Australia and not give us an opposition government.
Why would we send people back to a country not part of the UN convention?
Because folks people,voters, demand it.
Some would gladly sink those boats at sea.
If we are to change the things we can we must except those we can not.
And remember always membership of a party is no assurance you will get every thing but rest assured if you look across those parliamentary isles you will see why your vote is important.

"Well I do not agree Pelican, never ever could find common ground with the rude and crudeness of Aime."

I might be a little rude at times Belly when I feel I've been hard done by, but Crude? Crikey Belly. Some have said I have the attributes of Mary McKillop, but typical of many members of the ALP (who probably still get around the race tracks breaking legs) you dismissed me before you had the chance to get to know me.

I was sort of hoping you might address some of the points I made so we could then go on to finding some middle ground. That's how I work Belly. Toss a cat amongst the pigeons, then work with the other party to get it out.

I wrote (paper) letter after letter to the ALP expressing my concerns of where some of their policies were heading, yet even as a member I got no response, no recognition at all, so I did the honourable thing and resigned. All they seemed to want from me was my yearly membership fee.

You shot the messenger Belly and left me with the impression that you're typical of Labor Party heavies or a want-to-be. If you don't like the message you're hearing, then dismissal is your order of the day and your stance has further reinforced the notion that the ALP are a party of power hungry union thugs that only hear what they want to hear. I will have no association or contact with the ALP or it's members again!

Belly

I went back and read Aime's original post - if you think that's being rude and crude - what the hell do you make of some of the other posters on OLO?

Agree with the points that Pelican and Aime made, although have to admit that it is difficult for Labor "to grow a spine" in a minority government with so many riding Gillard's back.

For me to change my vote from Greens to Labor at the next election - the Labor party had better return to its roots and gotten on with governing FOR people and not the whims of big business.

What Ammonite said : )

Aime no back down, sorry you selected a small bit of your thread.
Come back with me to this bit, what is the purpose of this thread so you can go back and tell your bosses.
May not be the exact words but did you think that ok?
As an ALP member in your stated view I am a robot not an independent thinker.
Do you understand,, you in fact judged me? before YOU GOT TO KNOW ME?
Now if the reason you dislike us is because you never got an answer gee!
My fellow left of center travelers think.
Yes Labor is not keeping its word.
Its leader is not much good, never will be.
But who and how,will beat Abbott if not Labor.
Two interviews watched live today,well one and a bit.
Bob Brown took on the Murdock press,with the great help of a heated fool from that group.
And won!
Said much as I did up the thread that question or opinion.
Watched a Milli second of our Julia in SA
No could not sit and watch, left even worse was to come Abbott.
We sit at the base of a hill, much of Labors plan is in tatters at our feet, we need policy makers not breakers.
But that hill see,s Tony Abbott on top built on lies promises he never intends to keep.
He sits on the shoulders of small groups intent on turning on Labor because it is Labor not the greens.
And a Medea Baron who wants to own the world, if we could only see what we will look like 12 months in to an Abbott government we would not be playing his divide and conquer game.

Well it was clear several posts in the thread would not progress.
Yet room exists, not just for the ALP but Liberal and national party's too to explore the future.
And to question the present, I filled in a questionnaire about my party recently.
In it I reminded them,harsh but honestly, we never again can stand idle while the NSW fiasco takes place again.
Betrayal? yes, criminal and miss use of power all yes.
But dream those dreams, only from the government benches and only from with in can we change anything.
One Nation was a Boil on the Bum of Conservatism,yet it took Labor and Liberal votes.
It did not turn us in to xenophobes, it mined thoughts we already had,and won votes by doing it.
John Howard took that part of their policy's, had always shared them, and won office.
Gillard after endless bleating not for the first time,back tracked and in fact is becoming harsher on this.
Because the bleeding hearts will mostly vote for her but big numbers of swingers are being lost, on such policy's.
Dream those dreams of perfection, but they are nightmares in truth.
Labor must first and last try to continue to be the giver of constructive change.
Policy's to appease the greens are a one way track to opposition benches.
Rather we go down fighting for middle Australia than pandering to fools.

Dear Belly,

Both political parties need people leading them who are good communicators, who know what they're talking about, who do their
research, who can sell their policies, who can explain things in a
language that people can understand, and who make sense and come across as believable, trustworthy, and worthy of respect.

Bill Shorten - is one I'd nominate for Labor. Malcolm Turnbull for
the Liberal Party.

Lexi

Let me add: and who can BE believable, trustworthy, and worthy of respect.

Before he became PM, I thought one Kevin Michael Rudd met all of your criteria.

But he certainly didn’t meet my abovementioned criterion!

Not at all sure about Bill Shorten, but Malcolm Turnbull has grown on me. From initially being repulsed by him, I am now willing to listen to what he has to say, quite intently…. and it is sounding almost reasonable!

I would like the Julia we had BEFORE she became PM. She was warm, witty and concise, which leads me to believe she took on the position of PM sooner than she'd planned.

Sometimes I like Bill Shorten - other times not sure - he sails close to the conservative right.

Malcolm Turnbull is the closest thing the Libs have to someone who is sincere about what he stands for - if it hadn't been for the Gordon Grech episode, I would very happy to see him lead the Libs, but less certain about his bona fides as a PM.

Abbott is the Libs' Latham - amazed he has lasted this long. Malcolm would be wise to wait until after the next election, Abbott loses, then Malcolm can consolidate the Libs into a more cohesive whole than they have at present - hey they may even put together some actual policies!

Meanwhile I am hoping Julia turns into Julia, the benefits of the NBN have become clear, we have a clear strategy for sustainable technology AND (I know I am dreamin') the chaplaincy program is scrapped in favour of professional psychologists and counselors. And RE is the responsibility of churches, mosques etc on their applicable holy days. None of this theocracy by stealth.

Labor dose not deserve another term.

Term one saw them waste billions and place financial burdon on us, our kids and our kids kids.

Term two sees them now wanting to imposse all kinds of taxes in order to recoup some of the billions they wasted.

Just think how great life could be right now if they hadn't been allowed axcess to our future savings.

Our seniors could have enjoyed their right to retire with dignity, without having to go to the extreem measures they do simply to survive, not prosper.

Our kids could have looked forward to inheriting a great set of numbers.

And finnally, we could have drawn compfort in knowing that we could plan for our retirerment, rather than trying to find ways to make ends meet on a daily basis.

Only a true labor suporter could even think they deserve a future.

Anyway, I'm off fishing for a week.

Most posters know politics is a big part of my life.
Most will have guessed it often gets me in trouble,with my party.
A fact is I may well have lost the respect of Bill Shorten, he never will have to think that about me.
He is my party's future.
I just can not dig a hole and bury my pain,forget the dreadful events of the Crean/Latham/Gillard years.
NSW Labor, only some one unconcerned for my party can forgive it.
The very Engine of this country's ALP bought and sold by self interest greed and contempt.
Contempt for the party its members its foot soldiers its heart and sole.
Never hide your party's faults, demand better.
But know within the Liberal party, it truly owns the Nationals,a donkey trained to carry and fetch for its boss the same sins exist.
Turnbull has grown,IF his party wishes to return to Liberalism, move away from tea party lunacy, he alone is the man.
My country needs both sides to grow, Liberals no less than Labor.
Gillard is gone,she will have her victory's but never win back some voters.
She is backed by Crean and both are part of the Latham wreckage.
Another great and good man Tony Windsor, no ones property, could with the chance lead us as Prime Minister he would be much loved he is fair dinkum a good member.
Shorten next.

Need to tell how I met Bill Shorten, I can say some things I could not while a working union official.
I am an ex, in my branch nothing is so remote from living that an ex, even life members.
In 1961 I first bought my union ticket,in the AWU not Iron workers.
I have been a servant of that union, not the Iron workers ever since.
Amalgamation campaign took place I went for the side that won, early, my AWU had been paying men who never left the local pub for years.
Bill Shorten Bill Ludwig and now Paul Howe's saved and rebuilt the AWU, it proudly is the sum of EVERY union it once was.
Shorten is brave wise and understands this country, he is tasked with rebuilding, and doing just as good a job as he did with my union, with my party.
Branches must not put best mates who are in fact drongos into Parliament.
Ex union officials who did badly in the movement should not be dumped into seats men of merit should have.
The ALP factionalism is not destructive,it saves the party from true twits being elected.
IF I know anything it is this Shorten is the man Rudd promised to be.
Rudd

Kevin Rudd Kevin 07 is a nice bloke,his sins largely hidden from us during his time in office by Medea that often fails to inform.
He was strong in the Goss government,very strong but controlling too controlling.
He,behind the scenes was not controlling his own actions, not trusting not leading and not including his best talent.

A good leader delegates,and a good one risk takes too,he would have walked in a double dissolution election and introduced an ETS but let fear stop him.
Still a nice bloke, betrayed in my view by his closest aids, but he dropped the right Bowyer in the game by letting his anger drive a betrayal of the party mid election.
He can not come back from that, but can advance this country in his current roll.
Kevin should sit quietly and review his actions did he come to Labor for self interest or to make a difference?

Belly, sorry mate but enough already.

I feel your pain. You ask the questions in the vain hope that someone somewhere will offer you an atom of hope.

The mere fact that the ALP and its supporters cannot speak of ALP policy without breathing fire about the opposition, is testimony to the level of desperation. This cannot be caused by the ALP so it must be the opposition.

If you really wish to know where the ALP is going you only have to look around at the political landscape. Precisely the same factors are in play federally as with NSW and that my disillusioned friend, is exactly where it is all going.

Foetal position everyone.

spindoc you devalue my thoughts and ideas.
You claim reasons for both that are untrue.
Yet that is your right.
We will not agree but do not put your own views above truth.
I need not mine for opposition sins, they are like shells on a beach after a storm.
My thoughts are shared, by far more of my party's voters than the party wishes.
My intention? not sure, I think we have a wide reading audience,and that my mob needs to come back to earth.
If ,and they have, they forget it is not a game , that support is no longer forever, they must except the boot in the ribs.
Con your self, blind your self, but even a landslide coalition win, quite a possibility, leaves you clutching a bag of policy's you must dump.
Like the landslide in NSW including my vote, a victorious Barry has broken his promises to who?
Middle income and pensioners on solar power being forced by his side to change his mind.
And look for a way out.
LABOR must now think about this, forget me, those you own, but never for get those you need.
Stop blaming Abbott, but stop too feeding him.
Ten years from now maybe twenty you WILL STILL BE REGRETTING THE MESS YOU HAVE MADE.
Yet we may just win an election, such is the sorry state of both leaders I will, unlike you, continue to be critical of my party, yours and to call for better from both.