Thanks for answering that Yabby but it is not as simplistic as the hourly rate of pay, is it ?.

My question entails hourly rates, but I am asking is it as good as a real job ?, or is it in fact your priorities that are the determining factor here, not the best interests of or deal for employee's. It seems from the tenure of your posts that it is your preference to employ people in an uncommitted way, than in a committed way ?.

Do people feel exploited when their only job opportunity, is when someone throws some cash their way under the table ?. I think they do.
And will they ever get to feel and touch the fruits of being employed as one would if one had a real job ?. No they wont.

Could they ever aspire to borrow money from the bank to start this cleaning business of which you speak ?, (not for me incidentally), no they couldn't Yabby. Can anyone really have equal opportunity to shape a future for themselves in this situation, no they can't.

The reason Australian families can expect a continuation of woe is because, that is the outcome/future that is mapped out through legislation, by the culprits; and without someone changing or reversing this , it will continue to do so.

*or is it in fact your priorities that are the determining factor here, not the best interests of or deal for employee's.*

Er Thinker 2, nobody in private enterprise is compelled to hire
anyone. Its quite simple really. If there is work to do, the
opportunity exists to hire somebody. If there is not, then it does
not exist. Some people are in fact quite happy to work casually,
sometimes a day, sometimes two days a week, whatever. When you are
seeking employment, take what you can get. Do part time jobs until
a full time job comes along, if that is what you want. You will
learn something new at every job.

A broom, bucket, mop and vacuum would already be available in your
cupboard at home. No need to borrow at all. Just a will and attitude
to have a go.

Your problem Thinker 2, seems to be that you think that the world owes
you a living. It does not. It is for you to get off your arse, stop
complaining and change your life. If that means starting with a cleaning business, so be it. There is plenty of work around.

Plenty of Australians are doing really well. Electricians, plumbers,
welders, accountants, painters, the list goes on. All bothered to
learn a skill.

If your problem in life is that you never bothered to learn a skill,
then don't blame the system, start to look in the mirror and be
honest for a change

Yabby I think your missing the point and the personal debasement contained in your attempts to stereotype me as malingering and unskilled is just plain inaccurate.

Just because I believe that society should provide a safety net for those without capacity to defend themselves against exploitation.

You insult me even without the slightest information on my skills and capacities. This is not a point, just a position taken in the absence of a valid point and probably displays better, the limits and prejudices in your own thinking.

In fact your one of those people whom I would describe as not worth working for.And likely to be the closest thing accuracy in this discussion at this point.

And finally, I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty Yabby, but I wouldn't put with your unhelpful anti-social attitudes for a minute if I was working for you. Or any other meglomaniac I met in my life that deserves to be told.

Excuse me Yabby for going crook ,but I was talking about practices in the workplace that are all illegal, even today.

Are you suggesting that business should be able to employ people outside of the law and that the priorities of business are more important than even the qualty of life, because if this was accurate we would still have 5yr olds down ther coal mines, as it was at the start of the industrial revolution. Until popular uprising and representative democratic Govt's forced business to adopt a less sociopathic approach.

If rights in the workplace were not fought for and won in earlier days our planet today would be an autocratic hell hole, with a very small number living as supreme rulers and the rest in poverty.

It was not unskilled bludgers, that had the energy to fight for rights, but the energetic,hard working,committed leaders among us,
that forced business to do the right thing. At least recognize that it is proper that business understands its obligations to do so.

My father whom fought for this country and it's rights and beliefs and concepts of fairness, would expect me to be in your face when dispelling the myth you purport, that everyone who believes in rights equal opportunity as an economic/social principal,is a bludger or sponger.

A sociopathic view is all you represent Yabby, and you should not even be allowed to have the privilege of operating a business, if your not prepared to at least provide real jobs.

A level playing field can and does exist for competing businesses even when laws protecting worker's rights in the workplace are in place.

Having lawless environments that allow people like yourself to make value judgements about what is reasonable or not reasonable in terms of pay and conditions, provides an advantage for sharks at the bottom of the pool, or helps exploitation to flourish.

In simple terms someone need to keep bastards honest, because history shows that the biggest charlatans in our society and/or collections of people prone to take advantage wherever possible are found in crime and business.

Thinker 2, feel free to continue your "woe is me" campaign. Feel
free to spew your venom against business, the very people you
want to give you a job. Its showing that you don't have the
foggiest about basic business principles to start with.

The world will simply pass you by.

Just like people, there are great and not so great business people.
There are honest and dishonest business people, just like honest
and dishonest workers. Your black and white worldview is a furphy.

Interestingly, some of the most profitable businesses pay the
highest wages by far. Its how they obtain the best people and
a business is only as good as its employees. Smart employers know
that.

As to my own record as an employer, I'm quite proud of that. Still
today some of those people tell me that it was the best job that
they ever had.

But continue to complain, all round you there are people who
are doing well and who are thriving. It all comes down to
attitude.

Your glass is just about empty, that is your choice, there is
nobody to blame but yourself.

Firstly Yab , I must protest about your comments about my glass. My bottle is still there somewhere as well ?. (lol)

I concede and agree with your points about smarter businesses paying more to get better people etc.

I'm sure that given the right circumstances in earlier times Yabby, you would have been an admirable employer.

My original post was about the culprits (legislators) and how times have changed, as a result of their changes.

The consumer has to be more savvy, more wary in fact. And the employee is effectively dis-empowered. Compared to the Australia of the past.
I'm not anti business. I just think this lowest common denominator effect, has an overall negative effect on our economy. I am actually pro business Yabby, as long as ethics plays a part in the formulae.

All I'm really saying is; admirable business people should encouraged, and less than admirable business should not be encouraged.

I think this is representative of "what it is" that most people would want.

It is true that crime makes it's way to legitimacy, via business Yabby. But I'm not saying that this is true of business as a whole. This is only a small percentage , you would hope.

And finally the Wa Premier Barnett is a either a amateur saboteur with the Australian economy in his sights, or the the agent/provocateur in a planned and co-ordinated attack involving the Federal Opposition and Wa Mining interests, in a last ditch attempt to force an election.

How's that for a conspiracy theory Yabby. (hah)