Dear King Hazza,

You said; “I don't see the need to wind up some gigantic web connecting refugee applications to broader conservative policies or problems when it is clearly very easy to separate them.”

I will admit to being a little confused. Are you saying that actions, in which the conservative government in Australia decided to participate as part of the 'coalition of the willing', had no part to play in creating the refugee problem we are facing now?

Did you think that efforts by the coalition to exclude those attempting to seek sanctuary in Australia diminished in any manner the total number of refugees?

Or are you one of those who seem to think that somehow Labor's policies seem to create refugees out of thin air?

From the UNHCR; “The security situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated steadily since 2006, impeding state-building and reconstruction, and restricting UN access to half the country.”

“Insecurity, political instability and economic and social problems are likely to continue throughout 2011. The number of IDPs is likely to grow as a consequence of intensified military operations in the southern, western and south-eastern regions of the country.”

As to the running of our detention centres, until 1998 this was done by Australian Protective Services, a government agency. Two years into the Howard government term they outsourced the centres to Australasian Correctional Services (ACS), the Australian subsidiary of Wackenhut Corrections Corporation (WCC), to run the centres. It has been a schmozzle ever since.

I think I have every right to connect the latest problems to conservative policies when the facts speak for themselves. Certainly as much right as those who attempt to lay the blame for the latest riots at the feet of the Labor government whose policies I also think stink.

These people need to be treated humanely, with dignity and in a timely fashion whatever the outcome of their applications.

Let me put this issue in a different light. Rather than blame the government, the West, the UN, Bugs Bunny or even the refugees themselves, one must consider the origin and nature of these people.

Bluntly speaking, these criminals are mostly Muslims. By now people in the West should be aware that this means they will not accept our values and will certainly cause problems. Their values are not those of the West. If anybody doesn't understand this, they have not read the Quran, the hadith or even a newspaper these last few years. The only difference is that these refugees have caused problems immediately whereas usually they wait a few years to start preaching hate and making trouble.

These people come to the West and they bring their prophet and his vile ideology with them. Look what they are doing to Europe... Muslim immigration is nothing but a slow-motion, under-the-radar jihad.

Is this racist? No, but it is religionist, or culturalist or even ideologist. We should not be afraid to be honest about islam and what it does to a country. Look at Muslim societies and what they do, or how they treat non-Muslims (or even each other). When Muslims change their ways I will reconsider my position.

csteel is from the bleeding heart mob.
Those criminals on the roof tops throwing tiles,see them on the mobile phones.
Who do you think they spoke to?
I have seen the telephone box meetings of these folk, no illegal act is too low,no lie unworthy to make it look like we are wrong.
Schooling these criminals in how to act teaching them the symptoms to display.
I recommend a look at an editorial in todays Australian, and agree with it, refugee rights are a threat to our border control rights.
I do not want Muslim migration, most do not want it, most of these refugee groups are run by them not us.
Bigotry csteel? yes understanding my ALP cares more for folk like you than being re elected terrifies me.

<< Rather than blame the government, the West, the UN, Bugs Bunny or even the refugees themselves, one must consider the origin and nature of these people. >>

Kactuz, the blame sits 99% at the feet of one extraordinarily stupid K Rudd, and his extraordinarily dumb Labor cohorts that allowed him to weaken Howard’s border protection policy at a time when the whole asylum seeker issue was done and dusted and ancient history!

This was simply the most inept thing to ever have been done in the history of Australian politics!

0.99% of the blame lies with Gillard and her cohorts for not moving sharply to reverse this madness, and instead just stuffing around with it, at great expense, effectively entrenching the pull factors for ever-more arrivals!

And about 0.01% lies with the asylum seekers that are stirring up the actual melee.

We’d been through all of this before, just a few years earlier. A tight border-protection policy was so OBVIOUSLY necessary.

How on earth could KRudd have done such a thing? It was just SO obvious where it would lead.

I think that any racist, culturalist or religionist factors are extremely minor, all considered.

Dear Belly, we have discussed the nature and extent of your fears in the past and I don't intend a rehash now. 

I looked at the photos of detainees on the roof and saw a very distressed individual with his wrists bound. I was wondering if there had been a previous attempt at self harm. I also noticed a very wet roof and wondered if firehoses had been used on the demonstrators. I will admit to not seeing the supposedly nefarious use of the telephones worthy of my reflection.

Leaving that aside, and being the ALP man you are, I was wondering if you agree with Scott Morrison's comment; "Crimes were committed last night again in Villawood and the Australian people expect the government to take control of the detention network,"?

Should we get rid of the private operators of our detention centers whose failures through the years continue to mount?

Does the australian government have a right to sue SERCO for the costs of the damage if it found to have inadequately supervised the detainees under their control? Remember the title of this thread.

Or is your hobbyhorse overloaded at the moment?

You clearly are confused csteele, because you simply can't even think pragmatically about policy, but can only categorize it as "conservative" or "not conservative" and bundle them up as intertwined.
What exactly is to stop us from doing the above measures I listed?
In fact, you avoided even addressing such a combination.

Would a country that is politically/diplomatically neutral and has no military presence outside its own country's waters, that nationalized detention and simply deported rejected applicants be 'left' or 'right'?

Kindly try to answer this time;
Because the fact that either party got elected *because* it promised to stop the boats, and then participated in some wars nobody wanted- both of which the other party has largely retained- is completely irrelevant to whether or not we can solve each of the problems you listed separately- which, I just did.