The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > A mandatory surcharge will fix the problem.

A mandatory surcharge will fix the problem.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. All
Changes to IR laws have brought about much tension between those paying wages and those saying it's only fair to be compensated for working weekends and public holidays.

Well, how about this for a compromise. Manditory surcharges.

It should apply to everyting, petrol, food, hardware, produce, everything.

Say 5% on Saturdays, 10% on Sundays and $20% on public holidays.

This will ensure businesses can survive, wages can continue to attract loading and the user pays for the privilage.

Sure the percentages can be tinkered with to get the mix right.

After all, a compromise is meant to be a win win.
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 19 April 2011 6:58:46 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
with your typical blind/sight
i note the poor shift workers
are yet again getting short shrift

its just a shame we cant get the serfs to work for tips
how much of the 'surcharge' you going to retain
[we know the workers doing your work..
wont be getting any]

but lets look at it for a servo
50 dollars fuel plus $2.50
plus $5.00
plus $10.00

so thats $2 for you
$4 for you
$8 for you

and you did nothing
exdept force workers work
24/7..[so you can reap off the cream

little wonder your getting the re[plies[contempt]
your question/suggestion deserves

your not that red head liar are you
or that numb nutt greenie...or jonny howard's dopple ganger

i know you must be that swan diver..
saying no more rivers of gold..
cause we know the deal we done

with big foreign duel passport holding
uber elite/boss miners...and ther capitalist capoes

lobbying for ever more smoking taxes
and carbon taxes increased elect-icity /water charges
and flood levie's..

upon their fixed contract workers..
still tied to howards work you peons[sceme]..

..*for three more years

bah hunn bug

reaping the cream
off others hard work

just cause you got no life
dont mean your workers havnt earned one
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 7:44:17 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Of course, if trading on weekends and public holidays is unprofitable due to penalty rates, businesses could simply choose to close their doors for those days. I really don't see the problem.
Posted by morganzola, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 8:27:15 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
How about you just don't trade on Sundays and public holidays, and leave that market to those who can afford it? Of the people I know who run small businesses (and there are quite a few, including one of your fellow butchers), none harp on as constantly as you about how their staff's rights are driving them into the ground. Either they are content to run a low profit margin or their businesses are simply more profitable than yours. Either way, I'd be much happier working for someone who showed less resentment towards his/her employees than you do.

Besides that, do you really think a surcharge would fix anything? As OUG pointed out: $50.00 for fuel one day, $60.00 the next. What day are you going to fill up? But your servo owner will still have the running costs of a day's trade to deal with, despite a likely downturn in sales.
Posted by Otokonoko, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 9:33:55 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Just noticed the response from morganzola. I live in a small community of less than 1000 residents. We have an award winning Bakery, which is a family business, and employs locals to help with the load, especially when mum or dad has to care for the children, all (3) under school age. This small business has brought wealth and prosperity to the community; and also provided a stopping point for cyclists on their 30-50Km circuits, especially on Sundays. Unfortunately Sunday, which was also our favourite day to enjoy brunch with the kids and grandkids, is now too uneconomical with the cost of wages, to be a viable trading day. Pity for the village all round. I think a standard surcharge would be a good thing. Let the customers decide whether they want to pay the extra for a store to trade with staff that they must pay - isn't it up to 240% loading on Sunday/Public Holidays
Posted by bridgejenny, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 10:28:49 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Where I live there are many weekend surcharges in place within the hopsitality industry.

The cost of penalty rates is already built into the prices of many products and services. If the surcharge comes in will the prices of those goods which have the penalty factored be reduced?

Can't see it happening?
Posted by pelican, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 11:14:23 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@ bridgejenny: perhaps the family who own the bakery might be better off spending their weekends together, you know, as a family? Why not buy your bakery supplies on Saturday and have a picnic on Sunday?

From your description, the only people who are losing out are the casual staff who might want to work on Sundays and Public Holidays. I guess the cyclists might also be inconvenienced, but I'm sure there are alternatives.

Mind you, I'm not opposed to a surcharge to cover penalty rates on Sundays and Public Holidays. However, I suspect that custom would also drop off as prices increase, somewhat negating the profit motive for opening.
Posted by morganzola, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 12:51:58 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Rechtub lives in a world other than the real one, he considers workers nothing but another product to be used then thrown away.
Growing conflict?what growing conflict?
Have you Rechtub been caught up in the tax office blitz on Queensland small business?
Rechtub owns butchers shops, just how many he has never said.
And says as part of the contract in big shopping centers HE MUST TRADE on weekends.
This growing conflict, the one that never existed, is based on penalty rates,along with a mixed up totally dysfunctional view, large pay packets in mining are across the board.
Penalty rates have existed for far more than 50 years.
Are not new,and those chops and snags ,and coffee and hamburgers, weekend trading is built on,are priced in to costs, by the better traders.
Less wages equals less sales.
Rechtub may well be one of those famous two truck drivers.
Selling water Mellon's for one dollar, buying them for one dollar.
One said we are going broke what will we do?
The other said lets buy a bigger truck!
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 1:42:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The only problem I have with the proposition is the word "mandatory".

Shopkeepers should be free to charge in line with their assessment of what the market will bear. It is no business of government, or anyone else, whether they choose to keep a single price list, or have a different price for every day of the week.

Why would bridgejenny's bakery not choose to put up their prices at the weekend?

Or, better still, raise the prices across the board, and offer a 15% discount, Monday to Friday...
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 2:59:03 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Just one point I'd make in response to morganzola's post about "businesses could simply choose to close their doors for those days" whilst that's valid for the independant shops, I understand that in the big shopping centres, shops don't have that individual choice, they are required to open whenever the shopping centre is open.
Back to the point of the thread though, a standard "uplift" on normal pricing would be simple, just so long as that gets passed on to those doing the work and not withheld by greedy shop-owners.
I wouldn't want to work weekends and public holidays, but I reckon those that do want to should be paid for it.
Thanks
Posted by Radar, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 4:23:49 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
On Sundays in NSW Butcher shops are not open in big shopping centers.
Unless they are part of the big chains in built store.
Rechtub is aware I a very long while ago worked in a service job,visiting great numbers of such shops.
Friday and Saturday too are the best trading days, as penalty rates have been paid during my entire life time I am baffled by his claims.
Are trading laws different in QLD? sea side traders do have surcharges on weekends and holidays here.
A sit down meal from open hamburger up costs $5 more and signs or menus warn of it.
As for the bakery, 240% never saw that in my life as a union official.
Many quite wrongly think triple time can be earned too.
A rostered day off can be paid penalty rates then the day taken later but double time is the most I have seen on weekends.
However that bakers shop [family is it] will not win custom if it takes award conditions from workers.
Rechtub is banging his tin tub again every problem is workers/union/labor and investors /risk takers are hero's to be rewarded if its good and saved if they fail Socialism for the wealthy.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 6:15:47 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
OUG, may I suggest you read this line of my post >>Sure the percentages can be tinkered with to get the mix right.

Then rethink your response.

At no stage should the business be better off, just repaid the additional wages they are out of pocket for.

You see, with a surcharge, which by the way is illegal in QLD, the wage earner gets their loading, the business owner get reimbursed for their out of pockets and the consumer, who chooses to shop on these days pay for the privilege.

Belly, I must say your negative bias towards employers is shinning like a neon light my friend.

How very typical of you. It's not your fault, you're a unionist! It's in your blood mate.

Back to topic.

Any surcharge must be mandatory to avoid predatory pricing and, it must also be charged and recorded in audit-able form.

Just remember, all I am suggesting is a fair system for all.

BTW, the suggestion of a 'built in' surcharge every day with discounts mon - fri has some merit.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 8:36:01 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
So Rechtub you have joined the group who, unable to debate issues slander me with BIAS.
It is a fact such people impress me only with their own blindness.
This issue grew from your thread on back packers.
That thread grew out of a an extreme position on workers being paid too much you have displayed from day one.
Now take a seat,come with me on this journey, this failed business man has a few thoughts for you.
Are you your own accountant? hope not.
Costs in running your business can be calculated, maybe meat prices are not stable,but you should be in control of your expenditure.
Now,those fleas in your under pants your workers, beggars insist on earning a living wage.
You know to the last cent how much you will pay, how many weekends, just not always what workers will be paid,true.
So sneak in to your accountant,ask him/her how much you can increase your profits without sales dropping.
Now anti business, you do know, don't you? that statement is wrong, silly childlike?
And do you understand it was my union that said a fair days WORK [not anything else should bring a fair DAYS PAY.
I can not put any more value on your intellect after that comment than a kg of you best snags.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 21 April 2011 6:34:39 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Small business is not alone at the wailing wall.
Crowds of self interested business and other groups constantly scream we want more.
And those who inhabit the lower end of the gene pool soon gather to chant along with them.
What is a small business? hundreds will jump in and tell me it is saint like,a provider of employment and service.
Oh? risk takers Rechtub words are kind friendly community minded folk.
I fail to control my self,just have to laugh those most opposed to ANY socialism insist on it if a profit making enterprise fails/has to Complie with fair work Australia.
Every year maybe thousands of small business go to the wall,other take their place, is it governments roll to protect them?
How many are poorly researched poorly run and bound to fail.
We have history of socialism for high income earners in this country,is it fair,was welfare not only a safety net at the bottom.
I every weekend, walk past stall after stall in area local markets.
Meet people who grow those plants you pay five times as much for,after they are near dead in those big shops/tin sheds And with the plants I buy I get story's of just why market days are better for me and those I buy from private Enterprise at work.
Last,country town isolated, 20.000 people wages drop 5% do five percent of sales die? yes indeed wages are oil for small business.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 21 April 2011 6:54:11 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Just as an example of the profit over employee mentality of big buisness. During Howards short workplace agreements lunacy Spotlight Australia submitted 620 new workplace agreements of which 614 were rejected by the ombudsman as completely un equitable.
Posted by sonofgloin, Thursday, 21 April 2011 7:48:13 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
have you ever heard of proffit sharing
[those getting a share
somehow seem to be better 'workers]

and im not suggesting giving them a free
or discounted ham at xmass]

meat is one of them things
where for a little bit of extra care
a higher yeild cut can result..[where you work for a scrooge
the oppisite is the more usual]

we hear much about fresh is best
the cuts at the end of the week..
can in no way be regarded as being prime
at best you should see slaving at weekends as a cost recovery exersize

where you get a last shot at charging higher price
for what will be next weeks petfood..but i feel anything i say to you is a waste of my free time..times are tough...but a butcher can slaughter his own beasts..make his own value added cuts

but if it dont begin with giving a fair shake..
to those doing a fair job..[a fair return]
then you know your working for a miser
and your work will be done in misery

bah humbug
why bother

you just want to blame govt
make govt be the bad guy
look within bloke..selfishness and greed
follow from one life to the next...

your doing fine

can your slaves
ahhem..em-ploy-ee's..say the same..

somehow i doudt it
[that you do to the least..you do to god]

24/7 means no family life
8 hours work/8 hours play/8 hours sleep
no more than 40 hours per week

treat your workers..better
than you treat your other meat
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 21 April 2011 7:49:30 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Two very true posts, I am awestruck at the need to blame workers/unions for every problem.
Let us face some facts, while I treasure the gains unions gave Australian workers more than 3 in 4 are not unionists.
Mostly those the ACTU fights for in minimum wages cases are not unionist.
We had once a thing called mate ship in this country.
On battle Fields far away or at home mates helped mates.
Get out on the street after a fire or flood and see this fact, those who can afford it least are giving the most.
I feel I have to justify being proud of my Union,and disgusted with some others, one pandering to Greens radicalism.
Yet my union has given to so very many,people not even unionists in trouble, my contributions over my life to such individuals is more than I will ever see again.
People are frightened, spending less saving more, paying off loans far too big for far too long.
Some INSIST! it is high wages bringing about business problems, how much worse is it going to get if the customers has to take less in wages?
IF we control wages we MUST control prices, surely.
I do not agree with that, let the market set its own level, in both.
But take heart,understand mate ship is not dead we still pull together, most of us, we are still the same people most of us.
And last remember you local butcher, the bloke who looked after you? before the big retailers cut prices and quality, you will soon be able to buy a pre packed lot of tail tags soon, every other part is on sale.
That local bloke in my area has the good will to still want to give a service only one home battling along but no way I would swap
mateship loyalty binds me to him.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 21 April 2011 12:19:34 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*Crowds of self interested business and other groups constantly scream we want more.*

Which of course includes unions and their self interested leaders,
Belly.

Its a debate going on in the WA gas industry right now. Specialists
were earning 300k$ plus for 30 weeks work, unions now want 400k$
for 30 weeks. Union self interest and greed is right up there
at the front of it all.

Only unions have a gun to put to others heads, which other
organisations simply don't have, mandated by Govt.
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 21 April 2011 1:18:15 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby I am afraid you are wrong, first the majority of WA workers by far, are not unionist.
Reo tinto and others activly stopped that.
And let me asure you, you select people far above the normal to put in front of us.
I once had a news letter on every lunch room table,it was mine drafted in my time.
It shouted in discust at some very real idiots in WA unions, the fat fool in braces is only one.
Mate consider this, you do know this came from rechtubs back packer thread fear and loathing against some who while much needed earn in his words not enought to pay tax.
So do not hunt for anti union grubby stuff address these facts, butcher wants to reduce already low paid wages, not your boom town ones, know please market forces not unions bring those rates.
And know for every unionist 3 non unionists ride on their backs, wanting and demanding those wages take the big money away and would you live in a donga so far from home, be honest mate!
I truly, honestly, have been shocked to walk in to a room going to ask for 4% pay rises for each of 3 years,a group wish, then seen management open the talks with an offer of 5% for each of 4!
Do not forget unions do not have guns
In some jobs workers are very short supply
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 21 April 2011 3:46:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Belly, it is you who will not debate.

So belly, OUG and any others who love to hate me, simply answer one question.

What is wrong with a system that rewards workers for working Weekends and public holidays, reimburses employers for their extra wage loadings and charges shoppers/diners who choose to shop/dine on these days for the privilege?

To me it's a 'win win' scenario.

Belly, I note you keep referring to the markets.

Now, I want you to be very honest here.

Do you honestly think those market stand operators pay the correct pay rates on Sundays and public holidays? Remember, even family members are not exempt from fair work Aust laws.

Do you think these operators all have the correct work cover arrangements in place?

Do you think that fresh veg you see on Sunday was picked by people who were paid the correct wage rates under the fair work act? If so, how can they sell so cheaply. After all, you say that increased wages are built in to the price. How can this be?

Now if you can't, or won't answer these question, then you must be bias.

Now I want everyone to remember, I am simply suggesting a 'win win' scenario here.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 22 April 2011 6:49:39 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*Yabby I am afraid you are wrong, first the majority of WA workers by far, are not unionist.*

Belly, you are out of touch with what is going on in your old
industry. Union thuggery is back. Even Martin Ferguson, who is
in touch with what is happening, admits that there is a problem.

On some of these large projects, you only need a handful of
crane drivers or similar to pull out and the whole circus comes
to a stop. Companies like Woodside, who we depend on for our
future welfare in this country, are having a gun put to their heads.
Cough up or else. That is not negotiation, that is standover tactics.

You have a similar situation at the Victorian desal plant site.
If companies wanted any kind of industrial peace, they had little
choice but to give in. All that builders can do is to pass on those
costs to the taxpayer, who coughs up of course.

Just don't give me this bulldust of greedy companies and the
poor workers. Some of these guys are making huge money, standover
tactics by your union mates if back. We all lose.
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 22 April 2011 9:37:32 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I'm beginning to think that what I see as 'resentment' of employees is actually just old-fashioned values. Much of what you say, rehctub, harks back to the days when employees had some sort of loyalty to their employers - when they were grateful for the opportunity to work and grateful for the opportunity to take home a little yellow envelope with some cash in it.

Sadly [and I actually do mean sadly], that isn't the way it works anymore. For some time, we've had an employee's job market. Teenagers entering the work scene expect employers to be grateful for their efforts, rather than being grateful that employers give them a chance. If they don't like the boss, they can find another job relatively easily [in many cases]. When I started working, which wasn't that long ago, the opposite was the case. I spent my three months' probation in constant fear that I'd be sacked and unable to find another job. I stuck with my first employer from the age of 14 until the age of 22, when I finished uni and naturally moved on. By the time I finished up, the usual length of employment for new staff was somewhere around 6 months, before they chucked tantrums and moved on.

IR laws DO tie bosses' hands when it comes to rewarding good staff and punishing the bad. Sadly, though, they ARE laws. Penalty rates are [rightly or wrongly] here to stay. I don't think it's fair to punish the customer for that. Perhaps your energy would be better spent petitioning to overturn the shopping centres' right to mandate Sunday trading, rather than taking a Gerry Harvey approach of making life less affordable for consumers to maintain [or regain] your own prosperity.
Posted by Otokonoko, Friday, 22 April 2011 12:08:12 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
This thread was born out of rechtubs unhappiness with back packers working in Australia,and his dislike of wages in general.
I spoke of weekend and public holiday surcharges in southern states.
And that I found no wrong in it.
He said it was not legal in QLD and started this thread.
Again I have nothing against such charges,but the thread now insults unions/workers/wages/and penalty rates.
Almost all in WA a xenophobic state,displeased with wise men from the east,an insult thrown more often than Queenslanders use cockroach, at the rest of Australia earning too much money and flying home to spend it.
I could,without effort troll on about bad bosses but why twist and turn the subject.
Fact is laws are laws and often very often head hunters from our biggest groups are hunting others plant operators and blue collar trades people, just like steak market demand is high.
Are we hiding from both threads intent?
Ferguson, yes brother of dear old Andrew, has lead the CFMEU in NSW till he left to stand for and fail to get an upper house seat.
Still he has his collection of dead communist shirts to show of Che forever Andy? good riddance.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 22 April 2011 5:05:50 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It is actually quite simple rehctub.

>>What is wrong with a system that rewards workers for working Weekends and public holidays, reimburses employers for their extra wage loadings and charges shoppers/diners who choose to shop/dine on these days for the privilege?<<

The last part of this is what is "wrong" with your picture.

Raising prices might - in some places, and in some circumstances - reduce traffic, thus revenue, thus profit. In which case there will be fewer workers being rewarded, and the employers will not be "reimbursed".

In these places, and in these circumstances, the business owner should not be prevented from setting his prices to meet the market. It is not the concept of the surcharge that is wrong. Just your insistence that it should be "mandatory".

How would you police it, by the way? If I refused to raise my prices in line with your "mandatory surcharge", how would you find out, and how would you punish me?

But more to the point, why would you want to?
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 22 April 2011 6:45:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Market forces as a much younger man I worked in QLD.
Casual barman part time cane cutter cutting the corners the machines could not get.
Picked tomatoes in Bundaberg and pickles for Sydney too.
Drove cane trucks after shifts driving cane locomotives.
I worked from a base at a mill known as Gin Gin
West Australian Iron ore rail was starting.
A recruiter came offering very big wages and retraining to engine drivers for that line.
two mates went,converting from our small engine's and made a killing,on offered wages.
Today, head hunters offer those extreme wages even to carpenters.
AND IN DOING SO CLEARLY MAKE UNIONS unneeded, do not blame unions for high wages, let truth shine in.
Two speed economy see,s wages rise very fast in one area not others.
Rechtub truly doubt it is illegal have what in a cafés is a weekend menu.
Priced up.
I Agree you should be able to try to cover your costs.
BUT MATE face your market forces, if I walked past your shops and saw snags at higher price I would walk past.
Offer me a deal in say ten kg,s I would wander home and freeze them then do the same next week.
I buy still in bulk.
Governments consumers unions workers do not have the steering wheel in their hands you do.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 23 April 2011 5:47:22 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Pericles,nice to see some real debate.

You see, if as you say, business was to 'drop off' on these days, then perhaps we could go back to the good old days where the shops shut at noon Saturday.

Just think, even those in retail could spend time with their families. You see, the family time that so many here are protecting, comes at the price of those forced to work these days and go without their quality time.

Another point of interest is that most who oppose a surcharge, yet, by their very own admission, state that mon to fri prices are 'loaded' to compensate for weekend prices. (additional wages already built in) Do you really think that's right?

Now as for accountability, well we business people have to keep very accurate records for SEVEN YEARS. That means every till tape, every wage slip, every invoice.

Otokonoko,You say 'they are laws'.

Yes, they are laws, but they didn't exist until labor gained power.

A huge point of interest is that during our darkest hour (GFC), labor made employing harder, rather than easier. Go figure!

Belly. I appreciate your acceptance of surcharges in other states. I am just wanting the same here. That's all. Everyone wins.

Remember, the diff between 1.5 rates and double time is 33.3%. That's a huge increase to be built in during the week.

Now I saw markets down the waterfront yesterday. There were hundreds of stalls.

Do you really think they all paid the triple time rates?

If they did, how can they sell so cheaply?

Now as for unions, well my friend, you had best open your eyes. They are turning back the clock.

Patricks are under constant threat of strike.

These workers work 4 on 4 off and are on $120K per Annum

That works out to less than 29 hours per week for $2308.

Put that into prospective, it means they are on 2.4 times the average wage AND STILL NOT HAPPY!

Please don't tell me the unions have gone soft.
Posted by rehctub, Saturday, 23 April 2011 6:05:46 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It's interesting that rehctub avoids mention of clauses in shopping mall leases that require businesses to trade when centres are open, since that's his real 'beef', so to speak. If these provisions were simply removed, then he and other tightwad employers could just close for the weekend and everybody would be happy.
Posted by morganzola, Saturday, 23 April 2011 8:27:06 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Rechtub the towns I talk of have 2, 5, to ten, thousand people, the markets in villages.
Not employees just family's.
You do,, truly, lack the understanding to be so critical.
Penalty rates came in a very long time ago show me one
just one
person who gets triple time, be sure they do,I in my time never met one who did.
And you never paid it in your life.
rosters, if you want a weekend off get a roster in place trust some one to fill in for you.
yes I agree with the extra charge always did but it need not be mandatory just do it mate.
but do not compel the bloke down the road to do it too he should be free to run his business as he wants to.
Tomorrow, after the markets I will sit down have a coffee and something light pay about $5 more for it, but enjoy and not be upset by it.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 23 April 2011 11:51:27 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
>>Tomorrow, after the markets I will sit down have a coffee and something light pay about $5 more for it, but enjoy and not be upset by it.

And that's all I am asking for belly. Nothing more.

Unfortunately, surcharges are iligal here in QLD, which by the way is the whole problem.

Decent people have no problem paying them as the appreciate the fact that it costs more to produce the item on these days, it's just that our QLD gov have other ideas. You see wages are federal, surcharges are a state issue.

Now another doozy with FWA is that even family are not exempt from these laws. So, should there be a 'fall out' between family members, these laws can cause grief.

morganzola
If only life was that simple.

You see small retailers are fighting for what little is left after the 'giants' take their market share, currently around 85%.

So the simply 'close' on these days may well mean total closure for many.

There is a submission to FWA by the hospitallity industry and I can almost assure you that if they don't get cut some slack then you will see many fail as most are on the edge. A surcharge will fix most of thier problems and everyone will win.

That entire industry is appearing to be in 'boom times', but the reality is it is mostly driven by TV shows.

Also, with the likes of butchers, we take kids and train them in 'real butchery skills' ensuring the industry will survive.

99 out of 100 apprentices from super markets are usually duds, through no fault of their own.

My apprentice took less than three years to complete his time and is now capable of almost running the shop, all becuase he has received top line training.

These skills will be lost if small shops close, as small shops do just about everything, compared to super markets which do very little with regards to 'real butchery'.
Posted by rehctub, Sunday, 24 April 2011 6:33:30 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby, as usual you proffer the most extreme and un representative of examples, such as your “on $300k but demanding $400k” scenario. The market segments you example turn over thousands of BILLIONS annually but you express some labour cost that represents a bucketful of water in comparison to the tailings dam of returns. Supply us with the net Labour costs as against turnover and the labour costs falls into insignificance against the other fixed costs involved in the business, and to nothing when the ROI is recorded.

Yabby your inherent greed sees you seeking a way that the minerals might dig themselves out of the ground, process themselves and then ship themselves OS for processing by humans that you pay subsistence wages to
Posted by sonofgloin, Sunday, 24 April 2011 12:44:43 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Sonfogloin, your WWF heritage of total greed shows through here.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/voelte-warns-over-the-top-lng-wages-are-making-investors-nervous/story-e6frg8zx-1226036862786

Perhaps you should inform yourself and read what is going on.
If costs weren't blowing out, Voelte would have no need for concern.

Fact is we now have the highest wages on the planet, when it comes
to oil drilling.

In Australia, unions have more power then anywhere else, due to
union thuggery.
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 24 April 2011 1:28:10 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
morganzola, you are actually quite incorrect in your acertion that businesses must trade when the centre is open.

Most leases have what is regarded as 'core trading hours' and, after 5ish and Sundays/P/holidays are not core hours.

In fact, to trade on these days/hours attracts additional charges.

Add these charges to penilty rates and the problem is compounded.

Of cause we then here the old 'well just don't open'. Sorry, but if you want to hold your tinny share in today's world, you have to open.

I note that none of you have really addressed my questions.

Perhaps an oversight, hey!

So I will make it simple.

Why do you accept a surcharge mon to fri, yet not allow for one on weekends and P/holidays where they attract the increased costs of doing business?

Any of you care to address this?
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 25 April 2011 1:48:01 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Come bloke! surely you jest,more than just me have said your extra charges an every day thing in most of the country.
Me and another have said we willingly pay it.
And support your request.
You said it is illegal in QLD
Another reminded you good accountancy should fix it.
Charge rate that covers your OVER ALL COSTS this hides the extra and makes it legal seems to me to be your way out.
I said, but firmly believe the above is a better solution, you could craft a weekend/holiday price list.
It would work, only if your opposition did it too.
I think you would see one at least not, and try to take a percentage of your custom, do you agree?
Yabby silly stuff and not on subject 22% are in unions, thuggery? then that would be gutlessness on behalf of employers.
And may I inform you and others a union can only go on strike during wage negotiations and ONLY THEN, and only after every thing else has failed thuggery what has this subject got to do with a nonunion industry?
Rechtub you risk taker you, the rewards are good you tell us but focus.
My bet is your problem is in no way related to penalty rates but more on customers doing it hard and buying less meat.
Tell you what, run a special for oil feild workers hear they are making a quid over charge the beggars great job and they want to bepaid for it? what is the world coming to?
Posted by Belly, Monday, 25 April 2011 3:12:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*Yabby silly stuff and not on subject 22% are in unions, thuggery? then that would be gutlessness on behalf of employers.*

Not so Belly. It only takes 20 cranedrivers and a mega billion
$ project can come to a stop. As Voelte noted, they don't mind
paying top wages, but IMHO it seems there is more like blackmail going on. Union greed has no limits on these occasions.

But I was in fact responding to Sonofgloin. If he was off topic,
refer to him.

Rehctub, apply a surcharge or pay your workers cash, which is what
is happening elsewhere. But making it mandatory had nobs on it.
You are up against Coles and Woolies here and given that I have
shares in Coles, I am happy if people go there to shop :)

Interestingly Belly and others might too, as they all have super
funds, nearly all of whom own shares in the big two.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 25 April 2011 3:52:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
>>You are up against Coles and Woolies here and given that I have
shares in Coles, I am happy if people go there to shop :)

Well that statement pretty much sums the whole thing up.

So long as my shares are performing well, little else matters.

I can remember a day, not to far back, when you would go to the locally owned hardware, or buy your goods from the local store that was owned by the parents of kids you went to school with.

I can't believe we as a nation have sat back and watched the whole system implode all in the name of returns on shares.

I invite you all to view a film called 'food inc' and see just where we are headed.

You know we are doomed when it is easier to find out what coles and Wollies 'don't own' rather than what they do own.

Now I know this is a bit off track, but surely the domination from these giants has a lot to do with the demise of small business, considering it is they who pushed for extended trading, which changed the lives of many for the worse.

I can remember a day when ALL shops would shut at noon Saturday and be closed for the four days over Easter.

Perhaps there's a link between the increased dysfunctional families and 7 day industries. I think that's another topic.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 6:29:42 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*So long as my shares are performing well, little else matters.*

Ah Rectub, I could say the same thing about you and your butcher
shops. Luckily I bought shares rather then more farmland, for
my farm gets subsidised by the shares. If I'd relied on income
from butchers, it would have gone broke.

*I can remember a day, not to far back, when you would go to the locally owned hardware, or buy your goods from the local store that was owned by the parents of kids you went to school with.*

Its till happening, Rehctub. With 1.3 trillion$ worth of superannuation
savings in workers accounts, nearly every worker in Australia would
own a share of Bunnings, a share of Coles and a share of Woolies.

Why should people not shop in businesses where they have a financial
interest?
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 9:00:14 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy