Your ability to complicate really simple concepts is becoming legendary, one under god.

>>thats just the point arjay and i are talking about govt isnt issueing..its lending..[at intrest] if govt..*'issued'..it would be intrest/free<<

The only point about "issuing" in the context of the Constitution (which you brought up, remember), is that the Commonwealth can, and States can't. That means nothing more nor less than there exists the concept of an Australian dollar, which is negotiable currency here and overseas, and there does *not* exist a negotiable Queensland dollar, or a NSW dollar etc.

You share with Arjay a form of logical snow-blindness when it comes to the concept of money. It is fundamentally simple and straightforward.

So here's a quick tutorial. I don't expect you to understand it all straight away, but it should give you some ideas to work on.

There is no such thing as interest-free money in our economy.

Except of course for the banknotes you hide under the mattress. Otherwise, every dollar comes with a price tag.

Think about it for a moment. Under what circumstances would governments "issue" interest-free money. Where does it come from, and to whom does it go?

If governments spend more than they take in taxation, they need to borrow. That's where all those bonds and stuff come in. Take away the overspend, and away goes the need to fund the deficit. (It's not actually all black-and-white, governments may choose to issue bonds for other reasons, but I'm keeping this as simple as I can).

So you are confusing two things: the need to raise cash to fund operations, which is repayable at a later date, with interest. And the actual raising of that cash, which is purely a mechanical, transparent and entirely legal process.

Hope this helps. It is an important area to understand.

And Arjay, you really should know better by now.

>>Remember the Alan Grayson Ben Bernanke interview? Half a trillion $ of public money was unaccounted for.Grayson asked where this money had gone.Bernanke said "I won't tell you."<<

This was the actual exchange, from the transcript.

Grayson: “So who got the money?”
Bernanke: “Financial institutions in Europe and other countries.”
Grayson: “Which ones?”
Bernanke: “I don’t know.”
Grayson: “Half a trillion dollars and you don’t know who got the money?”

The question was not "where did it go?" He already answered that - "Financial institutions in Europe and other countries."

He was asked to specify which overseas financial institutions borrowed the money. (Note the word: borrowed. They paid it back.)

The fact that he was unable to specify which exact overseas institutions borrowed from the Fed is hardly surprising. There were probably more than a dozen of them. And, quite likely at the time, that information was just a little confidential. And not necessarily just for the Fed - there might have been sound reasons for the overseas banks themselves to rely upon some confidentiality.

This is just another example of a politician-on-the-make twisting words to make himself look clever, like a wannabe Jerry Springer on a tawdry low-rent cable TV show.

>>...now that they have destroyed production in the USA,their derivative scams will collapse pouring their worthless money into the real economy causing hyper-inflation and high interest rates.It will be stagflation.<<

Admit it, Arjay. You haven't a single clue what any of that means. Why do you keep parrotting it?

To prove me wrong, explain how the collapse of a derivative scam, as you call it, will pour "worthless money into the real economy".

I'm prepared to bet that you cannot do this.

Sadly, it never seems to stop you waffling on about it.

perridicules/quote..""There is no such thing as interest-free money in our economy.""

if i hold a govt bond for two %*intrest
paid for by govt loan...intrest free

[like the usa fed/bankers are currently holding in usa]
im getting two percent...for doing nuthing

of course as inflation is running abouve the quoted mark [3 to 5 %]
yess effectivly we and they are both loosing..but we far more than they

[ours is real money..real assets
against real debts..theirs are just book entries]

your right..."every dollar..comes with a price tag""
yes..its the inflation
that deflates the value.

thus what was a dolar
now has deflated to under 2 cents in real value

""Under what circumstances would governments "issue" interest-free money.""

as like revealed in links
a usa govt issuing bonds no one but the fed is buying
[and only by monetory easing and fixed low intrst deceite

""Where does it come from,''
it comes from tax/intrest and fees and charges
levied upon the mugs..paying as they earn..or spend

""and to whom does it go?""
i asked you first

but basiclly it goes to govt who sends it to treasury
who banks it to the fed..who offset it against bonds they hold

but you could possably enlighten us better

""If governments spend more than they take in taxation,
they need to borrow.""

they do this by issueing a govt bond

""Take away the overspend,
and away goes the need to fund the deficit.""
so we would think
but look at how we were debt free
but the labrats put us back into debt

thing is we didnt get back the fed bank
so whats the use

""raising of that cash,
which is purely a mechanical,
transparent and entirely legal process.""

where the bankers scam off the cream
[creating as much money/credit
as govt bonds declare will carry intrest burden

your just feeding back what i allready said

who runs the fed reserve?
who owns it?

who tells the mint to print money?
or mint coin?

OUG. Pericles is a lost cause.I implore you to see http://www.secretofoz.com/ by Bill Still.'The Wizard of Oz' by L Frank Baum had deep economic meaning for us all.In the book Dorothy had silver slippers.In the movie of 1939 with Judy Garland, she had ruby slippers to suit the new technicolour movies.Much meaning was lost in the movie.

The crime of 1873 happened when the elites in Britian forced the USA to withdraw the more freely available silver currency from circulation
and replace it with gold.The elites had all the gold and so were able to steal all the assests from the masses,since they were able to determine the value of their currency.The Tin Woodman represented the factory worker who needed oil( the liquidity of money to move)The Scarecrow represented seemingly ignorant the farmer who really had knowledge of how the economy worked.The cowardly lion represented Willaim Jenning Brian,who was for a while the champion of the silver movement.Brian was running for President in reality and L Frank Baum had accompanied him in many of his campaigns.The Wicked Witches of the East and West were JP Morgan and Rockerfeller the two major banking interets of that time.

So make the effort OUG and see how history is trying to warn us of impending financial doom but gives also the solutions to our economic salvation.

It is difficult to follow you sometimes, one under god. And this is one of those times.

You seem to agree with me that there is no such thing as interest-free money, as all the examples you give - bonds and stuff - have interest rates attached to them.

>>""Where does it come from,'it comes from tax/intrest and fees and charges<<

There's that interest again - so not "interest-free"

>>""and to whom does it go?"" i asked you first<<

Since there is no such thing, my question was either rhetorical or hypothetical, take your pick.

The only way to eliminate interest from the equation is to eliminate borrowing/lending. That is not going to happen.

And Arjay, I notice that you did not even attempt to justify your spray about "derivative scams" with any facts. But we both know that you haven't a clue about financial stuff, you just cut'n'paste from your favourite conspiracy site, don't you.

But spare us the tarradiddle about the Wizard of Oz.

You'll be reading tea-leaves next.

im familour with the wizard of ounces[oz]
but it only makes sense after you know what was done

clearly perculiour dosnt know
or as i prefers to put it...
he pretends to not know

quote''You seem to agree with me
that there is no such thing as interest-free money,""

dont put words in my mouth
money..IS SUPPOSED TO BE A FIXED MEASURE*
with a FIXED VALUE*..

but sadly those who feast on the value of our funds
have made it so all value..[fiat value]
deflates or inflates

as they limit or flood supply of their FIAT paper

""bonds..have interest rates attached to them.""
thats correct..but bonds arnt money
they are value

the value of a promise to pay
[only as valuble as the honour
of those who made the bond..[promise]

bank notes are only the value of their promise
to pay in REAL MONEY[coin]

you jump on my explanation
of where govt gets its money from

but your question deliberatly confounds
those trying to make sense of this topic

in the beginning..
you or i found the gold/silver

and sent it to govt..who cleaned it up to a purity
certified it to be pure..and put a monetry value on it

on the face of the coin*

ie govt made money..for us for free*

[you really should try to get
what arjay is trying to say]

anyhow that was fine for a while
till some got too much 'gold/silver'
and those licenced to do the refining

...issued promise notes
[easier to carry]
assured quality and quantity

[again for free..and promising specific weights
in pounds weight..dollar weights ..penny weights..shilling weights..and other WEIGHTS and measures..

again there was no intrest upon it
no inflation
no deflation

FIXED assured value
underwritten by govt