clubbers business is about minimising risk
only fools bet on risk

here is how it goes
we see an oppertuinity or need or want
we do research
we apply for a loan
the bank takes the risk

we go to our local member
gift him her a few hundred
[polies return no less than 100 fold]

become a main supporter..get their ear
get a subsidy lease or other govt grant or licence
send-out a worker to do the tests with the first loan

use the results to get a second loan...[go overseas if needed with a 'trademission',with govt members..to secure financing]

and the result is clive palmer
investing only a few pennies of his own money
gets a loan of twenty billion

..to reap in 65 billion

that any idiot public savant
could have gotten direct for govt ..to make the insane gain
and that is only one of the many miners refusing to pay their new tax

look at who is willing to spend 25 million..[on adverts]
to save 60 billion of tax

buy a political party
thats how you get certainty

the only sure certainty is owning both
then subverting the minor paries and independants

its not to complicated
business likes certainty

as well as stacked odds
govt licence and others bearing the burden

tax the people
not the coorperation
just look at the many subsidies big busness gets
12 billion just for coal and alumina

heck remember the magnesium plant
[that never got built in gladstione

peter beatup beaty kicked in half a billion
howard kicked in another half billion
just so shareholders could get return

stuff the people

let them get uncertainty
and a new tax increased fees and base charges

OUG, you are so out of touch with reality.

Sure, you get a loan, but guess what, without security you don't get the loan.

Now while you may think the banks hold the risk, they simply sue you, or at least take your security (assetts)to pay out the loan.

My suggestion, keep dreaming and stay out of business.

UOG makes sense rehctub, and I think your "imagine if you were buying a home scenario" , would have a different outcome. If I discovered I was about to lose my job, but had a one of chance to buy a home, I would proceed with the loan and back myself on getting another job.

In fact that's what I would have to do, because no Gov't is going to help me.

In turn, why should my taxes be used for the subsiding the profits and thereby bonuses of corporate executives?. Why?, to ensure that the very same lack of security of employment I enjoy can be maintained?, the very same reason that I can't get that home loan.

Taxpayers supporting Businesses ensures that the little people be contained or maintained to serve their masters, in the absence of any consequences for the masters.

Perpetrating the myth that our tax money is most wisely spent on covering the arses of the big end of town is simply that. A myth. It will not work, has not worked, and does not work.

We will see the effects of the GFC bailout, (giving back the power to the same people), by shelling out large swathes of our money, kick in and take effect soon until the next time.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice shame on me.

T2 >>UOG makes sense rehctub

I agree, some of what is said does make sense, however, propping up business is helping to save jobs. Problem is, governments are far less smarter than big business, so the tax payer always gets shafted.

Governments come up with may good plans, it's just that they fail time and time again in the implementation of their plans.

I do however disagree with you on the home buying issue.

Back to the topic.

The underlying problem is one of uncertainty and, it is a problem that comes with huge ramifications if something is not done to stabilize government, and fast.

Mining is about the only industry we have left, and if we burn that through excessive taxes and poorly implemented policy, (lack of clarity) then it's kiss your 'A' goodbye.

Now sure they (mining) won't up and leave their current projects, but it's their future projects that are being tampered with and this is of major concern as these projects are our economies future.

Just remember, there is next to nothing else left.

Manufacturing - GONE! Tourism - GONE! Agriculture - GONE!

I have submitted a new thread called, welcome the the land of missed opportunities. I welcome you all there

oh no the topic is poluted with truths
change the topic

lets realise the rich are rch because they have bank credit
there has been cases of extreemly wealthy americans dying
and still leaving no inheritance

IT WAS ALL ON TIC

name one business that got a loan
payed it back
and now dont lend money

take murderoc or packer
a sign writers loan= maybe a million
buy a news paper a few million
buy an empire a few billion

at each stage money was borrowed
it you look at their owed debt
each year it was bigger

what is collateral for big busines
is the asset they buy..look at alan bond
it all goes into trusts or the kids or the wifes name

its called hide the sausage
allways owe more than you got

i buy a mining lease
thats the colateral to drill a few holes
by drilling a few holes i find it contains 2 billion of ore
i get govt to build a railway line and a port
and all of a sudden they are willing to give me a billion

if local banks wont do it
then a china trade mission will do it
this worked out well for a certain qld and a certain wa miner

uncertainty isnt the problem
its the balls of those who know how to play the money game[on credit]

look at takeovers..here we have a business paid off
but gets put under new financing..thus is under debt

we used to own our public assets[free and clear]

guess what now they are all collateral
some banker will scam off the middle man
owing masive debt...

some even get finance..
with financiers knowing they will default
just so foreign bankers/inverters can get the asset as first mortgauge holder..its a filthy game

little wonder govt gave the fed-reserve to the urury/banking wolves
once you own the money franchise and who gets credit
you own the legal title to the world
and tell govts what to do

and who to do what
or ..not do what ..to

Manufacturing has moved to China, how are you ever going to stop that. They see the larger margins involved, and away they go. AU is near full employment, isn,t that more important. Manufacturing will move somewhere else when China loses it,s profit margin.
Our exports are in good shape, all we need to do is curb the cheap imports which is driving over consumerism. Life style is in the fast lane, and needs to be braked.
It doesn,t take an economist to see that, just people that are something near normal.