Philo, the issue for me is not the causes of homosexuality - gays are cool people. Rather it is the fact that the State is saying that Christians should no longer have children because their beliefs are out-dated and harm children. Would anyone be surprised if we start to hear suggestions that Christians should avoid having children if they plan to stay Christian?

There's a fair amount of discussion on the topic, Philo, if you care to look.

>>Please site studies that prove some male children have a homosexual gene at birth<<

"Proof" is not a concept that sits easily with the nature of the condition, but there have been many studies that provide evidence.

This is one of the more familiar...

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/261/5119/321.short

But if I dare to make a suggestion, for religionists the concept of "proof" doesn't actually stretch very far either.

Pericles,
According to this view then it should be understood that Priests and Judges who desire sex with young males may well have sexual orientation markers in their genes that predispose them to their behaviour. They have a genetic reason for their action. So are they performing a criminal act?

Jewely,

I found your take on my comment odd considering my comments align with suzeonline's comments so much more than they do with Hasbeen's Victorian sense of morality.

So what about my post was so "scary" anyway?

Was it my comparison of white supremacists with Christians who show hatred towards homosexuals?

Are there differences? Of course.

For one, white supremacists are more open and honest about their disdain for those they don't like, while Christians prefer to package it with a red ribbon and dress it as a mere "concern" with cleverly disguised hate groups such as James Dobson’s ‘Focus on the Family’. In this sense Christianity is more insidious.

Or was it the fact that I displayed a sense of despair about the whole situation and dared to ponder how we could fix a world where some hold such divisive beliefs that they actually think are inclusive?

Perhaps it was the last sentence of my post where I re-iterated the point that I alluded to in my first paragraph about Christianity being decisive and hateful (despite the fact that even the religion’s doctrine is inherently so and even the moderate Christians help demonstrate this)?

What about my comments was so "scary"?

I'd like to know, but if you're only going to say that you know many nice Christians then don't bother. So do I and it's beside the point.

Pelican,

My point about divisiveness, etc goes for virtually all Christians of all stripes and colours. It’s only to what degree that differs.

Most people are aware that most religious people are nice moderate people, but that’s beside my point. The Christian religion is hateful and divisive right through to its very core and its doctrine supports this; which is exactly why we don’t see too many moderates actively and publically speaking out against people like the Phelps family; they know that for every Bible verse that contradicts what the Phelps family does, there’s a verse that supports it.

I remember cutting ties with a friend that I perceived as someone who was rejecting god, although I got my comeuppance when I left the church and lost a lot friends. But it wasn’t me who ended those relationships, it was Christians who ended those relationships.

Now, these weren’t radical fundamentalists - I came from a very middle-of-the-road church - these were very pleasant, ordinary people who - like many Christians on OLO - you wouldn’t have thought butter would melt in their mouths.

To help illustrate what I’m getting here, people often tell me that I shouldn’t rub the moderates the wrong way because it is they who could possibly talk some sense into the fundies. But while this may, strategically, sound like a good idea, it’s actually a lot harder than you’d think because there’s still that divide where they think where they think they have hold of the truth and you don’t.

Most of my family are Christians and I have an obviously-gay brother-in-law. So you could only imagine the discomfort I felt at my own wedding. All my relatives are moderate Christians who would never have said anything, but they didn’t have to.

Even the most moderate Christians (with extremely rare exceptions) have deeply negative feelings in this respect. The only thing that changes, is how willing and able they are to hide it.

We should never feel the need to apologise for religious belief - moderate or not.

I, for one, am tired of doing so.

I just checked with my wife how many children we had fostered over the years and she reminded me it was 153 and she had kept photos of each one. How many of those children turned to homosexuality we will never know, most are in relationships with family and many still keep in touch.

I can say homosexuality was not discussed.