No Rhys and Alchemist that is wishful thinking. I did not make the comment based on numbers. Atheists are still in the minority in Australia. I had in mind the enthusiasm of particular overzealous atheists who seem to go to any length to convert Christians and eradicate all traces of Christianity. All pressure (rumour, vilification or occasionally argument) is used by particular atheists to try to get Christians to convert. Christians in these forums only defend their faith and even then it is sporadic. What happened to David in this thread? There was a time when Christians did the converting.

Alchemist I like to believe that I am not intellectually challenged but I would feel pretty foolish if I said that I could out-think an omnipotent being. It is one thing for someone to say they don’t believe but it is another to consider oneself a better judge of the ethics of an omnipotent being than an omnipotent being. Even if someone overlooked that fact in abstract why wouldn’t they see that children make that mistake and see it doesn’t work? The approach does not seem to make any sense.

Accent that is one way of putting it – if your comment is taken solely literally. Generally killing is wrong but if you accept someone as God why would you pit wits against them? Many wise minds have considered it just for a person to be judged by their peers or a learned expert not by small children or people with limitations on their understanding. Why is it just or even rational for a human to judge God? Believing or not believing is a choice but what we are discussing is something else entirely.

AJD I don’t equate homosexuals to paedophiles. I was pointing out that certain types of arguments could be applied to each group. The idea was to dramatically show that those types of arguments aren’t conclusive. If you don’t like lies why repeat those ridiculous assertions about Christians. Surely you don’t take them seriously?

Mjpb, AJD is right, more 95% of those in jail for sexual crimes follow Yahweh. My years in the church showed me where paedophiles and sexual predators reside, the clergy and pews are full of them. You fail to comprehend, only a small number of people are atheists or believers in your violent despotic god. Of course you couldn't out think your god, it doesn't exist, those seeing its fallacy, don't need a deity to think for us.

Your besotted by your illusions and have no understanding of what we're talking about. Your ignorance is trying to push your stupidity upon us, to bring us down to your barbaric, infantile level. Calling everyone an atheists who doesn't believe your stupidity, shows total lack of knowledge of the world and how people think. Monotheists are in the minority here, others don't need to be right, just ethical and caring. Something no one following Yahweh has any chance of understanding.

We loathe the religious bigots running our country, whilst lying and saying they are secular. Now they're in control they admit their depth of religiosity, in words, policies and the debauchery they're inflicting upon the inhabitants of the world.

We see by the outcomes of their works, how insane and out of touch with reality they are. Careing for nothing ither than implenting their religious control and war agenda, as seen in the changes to our laws moral delarations and freedom restrictions They give 3 times the amount of money to religious schools than to public schools.

Their so stupid, they give more money to schools run by their factional enemies. More welfare and oppotunity to religious refugees. They'd rather support anyone following Yahweh, even though it always leads to war, than support those not following Yahweh. Explain the logic of that insane reasoning.

We can't even get rid of them as they control both major parties, manipulating the voting system so there can be only token oppositon to their control, like the now corporate controlled (Religious) democrats and greens.

"Mjpb, AJD is right, more 95% of those in jail for sexual crimes follow Yahweh."

Where do you get that statistic from?

"My years in the church showed me where paedophiles and sexual predators reside, the clergy and pews are full of them. You fail to comprehend, only a small number of people are atheists or believers in your violent despotic god."

I am glad I don't go to your church. In most they are underrepresented in the clergy. That is a pretty good reason to leave a church but is there any other reason why you left the church?

"Of course you couldn't out think your god, it doesn't exist, those seeing its fallacy, don't need a deity to think for us."

If you take out the bit about fallacy and existing, which flows understandably from your opinion, that is the point I was trying to make to the others.

Actually I don't believe that I am stupid or having illusions. I also believe that it is hard to have a solid ethical foundation without religion. That is about all I can say in response to the rest of your post.

As I stated, I totally accept that not all christians are pedophiles, I would concur that a lot of them are just as opposed to pedophilia as us atheists, however, from the research I've done, including the Attorney Generals Dept, Megans Law, Mako and others, the fact remains that ALL PEDOPHILES ARE CHRISTIAN!
This statement may sound ever so generalised, but it is just so true.
You know ehen I first made that comment to our team, we all laughed, but then we just looked at each other. We knew we had stumbled onto the truth.
The decades (probably centuries) of cover ups, denial and persecution of the victms by the church, which are only now being discovered proves beyond doubt that pedophilia is at the core of christian doctrine and culture.
Is this is part of the "solid ethical foundation" you claim religion gives to our society?
Perhaps you believe the old line of the only crime anyone ever commits getting caught?
Did Nazi Germany have the "solid ethical foundation"? After all it was that devout christian, Adoph Hitler who said “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”
Maybe you should look up the meaning of the word ethical, or perhaps it was a typo.
Did you mean UN-ethical?
My "solid ethical foundation" (and it's a damn side stronger than any bloody christian) comes from my conscience, my experience and my emotions. I know the difference between right and wrong. I do not need a religion with all its rules and constraints to guide me. I feel sorry for people who do. They have no belief or confidence in themselves.

Hear, Hear, Alchemist and AJD.
MJPB, you have a genetic deficiency -- it's been proven. Those who need to believe in supernatural creatures that rule their lives, are deficient in the gene that sifts out irrationality.
It's not your fault that you can't see when something is nonsense, but you and your ilk should really stop bragging about your disabilities and trying to force them on others through laws.

AJD Thank you for noting the first bit. You and your team gave an understandable initial reaction. That certainly is hard to take seriously without further information. Can I ask which Attorney General’s Department has conducted the research so that I can find out more about it? I’d appreciate your assistance.

In relation to victims and the church I would think that pedophiles will manage to sneak in virtually anywhere but for obvious reasons they have never proliferated in the Catholic Clergy. Nevertheless there was a surge of homosexual molestation of teenage boys and seminarians largely confined to the 60s to 80s. There have been very few instances of abuse since the 90s thanks to the late John Paul II’s attempt to work on the crisis of priestly identity. This abuse was associated with similar factors to those you refer to. However it has clear historical associations that have nothing to do with Christian doctrine. I would think that this would parallel the pedophile issue in the church you had in mind. Which church were you thinking of?

To avoid any misunderstanding I note that the sins of priests have nothing to do with the ethical foundation I referred to. As regards Adolf Hitler he was never even a priest let alone a spokesperson for the Christian religion. If you look into it more you will find that his beliefs are extremely dissimilar to Christian ideals.

Ybgirp Do you mind telling me which gene it is and where it was reported? Thanks