Lexi, Lol!
You are a bad girl, but I like you :)

AGIR, malice towards any people or group that have different cultures, beliefs, skin colours, sexuality or ethnicity to yourself is abhorrent to me.

We can have adult discussions about differences between people without resorting to nastiness.

It's as simple as that.

Suze:

You've summed things up beautifully. I'm not really a "bad girl,"
(I hope), however, sometimes things simply get up my nose ... especially when supposedly religious people are driven to paroxysms of hatred against those who don't share their faith. I find it genuinely puzzling that a mere difference of theological opinion can generate such negative emotions. Dedicating an entire thread to a
tongue-in-cheek article and trying to make something out of it? Good grief. But then I suppose a crowded elevator smells different to a dwarf.

Pericles... you are not always privy to what has gone on behind the scenes.

//And please, next time you start a thread, try to be specific about what you want to discuss. All this hunt-the-thimble approach to topics is extremely tedious.//

"IF" the thread had been allowed by Graham as I originally wrote it.. you would have been in no doubt whatsoever as to my intent. I had to try 3 times and correspond with Graham before it was finally allowed in the rather obscure and tame form it was finally admitted in.

Perhaps Graham can take note of your comments.

Sus...thanx for that.. you finally nailed it. (yes it is offensive to 'God believers')

But you and Lexi seem to be on Collins street when I'm in Bourke st.

You both fall into the classic 'liberal gene challenged' syndrome of connecting 'disagreement with 'hate'. Now you are BOTH naugggghty girls. But I don't hate you.. truly..

Re those who are different.. either creedaly or sexually or culturally...it's a bit sad to suggest that if one follows the Bible and quotes from it about a particular subject that it automatically means we 'hate' someone. It's an irrational stretch in fact.

Homosexual behavior is described in the Bible as a perversion. But adultery and calling someone 'a fool' is also condemned. We are also called to follow the "God so loved the world" pattern. But if the Bible and it's Author.. God.. declares child abuse.. incest, bestiality and homosexual behavior as 'no no'...then no amount of 'hateful' rebuke from you mob will change it. (see how I mirrored you? "hateful") I don't think you folks 'hate' us for that ...do you?

When it comes to morality, it's clear that most liberal minded progressive people simply do not compute the Christian view on such issues. You have a different concept of rubbery right and wrong.
We don't. Why condemn us for that?

AGIR, Just because ancient peoples from thousands of years ago did not understand or approve of homosexuality, does not mean we have not moved on and matured as a race of people now (well, most of us anyway).

We no longer burn 'witches' at the stake, or consider epileptics or mentally disturbed people as being possessed by the devil.
We know the earth wasn't flat, or that it was created in 7 days.
We don't stone adulterers any more.

I have always liked the following quote, and find it very wise to consider:

"That God cannot lie, is no advantage to your argument, because it is no proof that priests can not, or that the Bible does not." --Thomas Paine

Dear Suz
it's great that you and I can express our world view isn't it? :)

Clearly we have a difference of opinion about some issues.

I don't consider people with Epilepsy to be demon possessed, but.. and this is important.... if a person manifests symptoms similar to 'epilepsy' and a man Jesus comes along and commands the evil spirit to come out of that person..and they are instantly 'fixed' from that problem.... one is tempted to side with Jesus and the Bible in regard to 'that' instance....the person was demon possessed. There were many other examples of deliverance of demonic spirits, in some cases they addressed Jesus from their host. Would you like an example of this?(not 100% sure but it sure does seem like it)

Worthy of note also, is that the example you chose is just one of many where the Lord did similar miraculous things,
-Healed lepers
-Walked on water
-Raised Lazarus from the dead
-Turned water into wine
-Calmed storms by his word
-Gave paralyzed people instant strength and healing.
-Sight to the born blind
-Hearing to the deaf

and so it goes on. You might consider the broader picture of such things in Biblical context.

You quote Paine, the noted atheist polemicist. His argument is only half right. Agreed, Priests can lie even if God does not. However..the issue of the Scriptures? well his argument is falacious in that we derive our information about God FROM the Scriptures. So they are the starting point. From them, we can evaluate priests behavior, and when they act or speak falsely, they deserve appropriate condemnation.

But we still have to ask, Boaz, which bits?

>>...we derive our information about God FROM the Scriptures. So they are the starting point.<<

As we have discussed on many occasions, you are completely addicted to cherry-picking the verses and stories that you choose to believe, and which you then present to the rest of the world as "evidence" of something.

In this case, it would appear that you have chosen to believe that...

>>...the Lord did similar miraculous things,
-Healed lepers
-Walked on water
-Raised Lazarus from the dead
-Turned water into wine
-Calmed storms by his word
-Gave paralyzed people instant strength and healing.
-Sight to the born blind
-Hearing to the deaf<<

You naturally have an agenda that bases itself on these stories. But what is it about them that convinces you that they might actually be accurate?

Do you give, for example, the same credence to the "miracles" described in the Old Testament? In which case, should we also use some of the cultural instructions that book also contains?

You know the ones I mean.

Do you not occasionally pause to question the manner in which Christian "miracles" have metamorphosed over time, in the manner in which they are purported to occur?

"There is also a discernible evolution - in the Old Testament, from miracles performed directly by God to miracles performed by Moses, Joshua and the prophets with God's power; in the New Testament from miracles performed by Jesus in his own power to miracles by apostles and saints, then by dead saints, and finally in conjunction with the relics of saints."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_26_36/ai_62087489/

To do so - to question, analyze and discuss the phenomenon of "miracles" would require a level of intellectual curiosity that, alas, so far eludes you.

I do still hold out some hope that you will one day see the light, of course. But you really need to put in a bit more effort yourself, you know, I can't make it happen on my own.