...often you are dealing with humanity overseas, occasionally you are dealing with humanity in Oz.

Either way, when you get your say into my lounge, you always help break up the stupidity during much of the news shows and I feel happy and do not wish to hurl the shoe at the TV.

Cheers Tim.

Odd, that.

>>...when you get your say into my lounge, you always help break up the stupidity during much of the news shows and I feel happy<<

All I can think when I see his concerned look and hear his humanitarian platitudes is - hey, for a quarter of a million a year, I could do that too.

http://www.worldvision.com.au/aboutus/CorporateGovernance/AnnualReports.aspx

aint that funny tim..lol

i feel sick
everytime i see/hear your voice

you were prattling on ..again last night on abc
thank god i only heard the last two answer/rep-lies

i recall you saying we lead the world
or other same vain twaddle

ok mate ..lets lead the world
put this NEW TAX ..on our exports ..sport

see if ya can make that one float
put whatever new tax .
.on those using the national product ..to polute

lets get serious you joker

its too easy to lobby govt
for a new tax ..on its captive taxpayers

let go after the real problems..if you dare

i wish i recalled the twisted logic ..and clever avoidance
you revealed again last night..

give me a transcript
and i will point out your spin

but mate dont be saying
what we do is important..its only important to you..

if you win here..
IT is..*you ..
who get to play ..in the bigger global pond

that indian spin meister has too much baggage
they need a new global face ..for this farce

and your hoping to be it..

[your father would be ashamed]

i wish i could recall the last final question
you so cleverly sidestepped...

it wasnt that the ice thickness has trippled this year..

darn i wish i could remember your twaddle/spin.. its was so blatent only a true believer/convert.. could swallow it...

oh well it will come to me
you spin the same spin..

you will say it again and again
catch ya next time

Naughty Pericles... my thoughts exactly.

Doesn't it scare you when you think like me ? :) of course, I have to thankyou for your original discovery of that little financial fact... but strangely, when I regurgitate it in criticsm of Costello you berate me.. Hmmmmmm......

Has Tim finally caught up with Hillsong empressario Brian Houston... who I'm told drives a rather flash 3 star... not a run of the mill lil one..but a biggy...

Well..perhaps not quite...but all I can think of now when I see "Tim Costello", specially that classic image of him bullying the Westpac bank.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/klwnfc/4054236120/

Of course..Tim is quite skilled at picking on others with money..

“The quickest way to degrade the gospel,” says Costello, “is to link it with money and the pursuit of money. It is the total opposite of what Jesus preached. These people have learnt nothing from the mistakes made by the American televangelists.” (Tim Costello)

He's quite right there...but Pericles link should reveal a bit of a problem with the 'Word' and the 'Life'. (Tims)

//Melbourne's Wesley Central Mission today vowed to review the salary package of its controversial superintendent, Reverend Tim Langley, after it was revealed he was earning $160,000 a year, as well as living in a luxury apartment supplied by the Uniting Church.
The salary has outraged some members of the clergy, at least, who say that a religious calling is all about sacrifice and service.//

REV TIM COSTELLO, BAPTIST MINISTER: "Look, I was shocked and I think most clergy in the church are dumbstruck. When you have a religious calling, you understand it's about sacrifice and service. You're not in it to make money."

Indeed Tim....indeeed... how much are you now paid at World vision ?

It's a HECK of a lot MORE than the $160,000 for which you were critical of Langley.

Doncha hate the internet......

I remember a few years ago Derryn Hinch made some comments about how little of the dollars we donate to charities - actually goes to the charities and people in need. Out of each dollar the amount mentiones was very small. Still, as Hinch stated, if we didn't donate - these people wouldn't get anything at all. So, prior to criticising Costello's salary - we need to ask - where would the poor be without organisations like World Vision? Better off? It's all relative. As for judging Costello? - he's doing his job - and doing it well and he's not the only one benefiting from it.

Most Christians I know have switched to giving to organisations that help the poor as well as sharing of the Only One who can save their souls. World Vision seem to have become more Green faith minded (political) than remembering its original purpose. I hope I am wrong. I am sure I have heard Costello parroting some nonsense about global warming at some stage.

0000ps

my comments were regarding tim flannery
sorry tim costello..please accept my appolgies

now im seeing your face in my mind
i agree with the first poster

and to the other tim...
[the global warming gutter/nutter ;mouth piece]

my comments re the other 'tim'..still stand
thanks for ...gently reminding me runner

i kept on thinking back to your post..and decided to fess up
after thinking hard on the error

i was going to request deletion
but i stuffed up..and must learn to think properl;y
before posting..

its just tim made me so angry...[the intended one]
but in this case the wtrong one

again to the other
your doing your father proud

[unlike the 'other costello']
and the other tim...

oh dear what a tangled web we weave
when we stop trying to love ..{for-give}..others

im realising ..im a fool ..in this case
so please try to resist rubbing it in
or quoting it [this]..back to me

but will take my lumps
i earned them*

Lexi..I served with a mission which had 900 employees.. we served the poor.. we healed the sick.. we brought hope to 10s of millions (if you consider the Chinese Christians who came about as a result of the China Inland Mission)

Our General director received no more than others. My 'disposable' income was about US$10/week. You can't do much with that.

The point about criticizing Costello..is that HE publicly criticized another charity leader for receiving LESS than he is. Read his words for goodness sake. "I was shocked...dumbstruck"

Get it?

When I wrote the OP I had just seen a news article whereby Tim was talking about the harm of pokies gambling on the poor and the new legislation with daily gambling limits - I was unaware of his interest in the pokies problem. I know nothing about his pay which is of no interest to me. I am surprised some people would assume he should work for love rather than cash. It would be a stretch to believe that Tim could go to woolies and pay for his purchases with love...

It's an increasingly complex world of international aid and development - and I would never presume to question the salary of the CEO of an international aid agency such as World Vision that provides assistance to Third World Counries such as Burma, China, Africa, Middle East, et cetera unless their work was not satisfactory. The work that is being done should speak for itself. Tim Costello has impecable credentials for the job - and the only question that should be asked is - "Is he doing his job well?"
Apparently he is - and is highly respected. The following websites may also be of interest:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/tim-costello-homes-in-on-new-world-vision/story-fn3ws6ro-1225769330527

And

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/24/1069522534808.html?from=storyrhs

Mad... we don't begrudge him to work for cash....

I DO begrudge him to take $250k ish home.. when he criticized another Christian charity head for $160k.... look at what Tim actually said mate. (my posts)

If he took home 2 million a year (from public donations) I'll bet you would be very interested in how much he takes home.

If he was to make a public apology for his judgementalism against the other bloke.. and wear sackcloth and ashes for a week... and makes public that he is giving a large percentage of his pay to the poor.. for whom he claims to 'battle'....he might have some credibility when he stands in front of Westpac Bank calling them 'greedy'.

I rather think also, that if he told everyone they would be come 'rich' if they gave to World vision....you might have a bit of a pick at him :) I sure would!

AGIR:

You neglected to mention in your post that the comment you attributed to Tim Costello about Langley's salary was made - in the year - 2000. However, Tim Costello did not become CEO of World Vision until 2004.

Rev. Ray Cleary - Melbourne City Mission, summed things up rather well
when he said: "I think we've still got an outdated and old fashioned notion about charity and about church - which suggests - yes, we're happy for the church to do this and for it to do that, but we don't really want to pay them for it."

"If you want a biblical injunction, the Bible says pay the labourer his worth."

Agir, please tell us "precisely" what Tim Costello does with the money he earns.

Possibly Tim does what he says, thus the title I gave to this thread – the feeling of pride to be Australian.

Likely Tim does what he says based on the reality of money in the 21st century in conjunction with money being both the harm and the solution. The money is not a knife in Tim’s back. However, some people have a money hang up and will find fault in all people who are assisting the poor by ignoring the reality that all people who can help must have money to help.

Some people see the best answer to help the poor is by using poor country methods rather than rich country methods due to ideology – us and them.

I do not believe a man (or woman) can help the poor of the third world by wearing rags. I am happy to be wrong.

I do not know about the politics surrounding Mr Tim Costello, but mighty am I in claiming I feel the strength of the quality of Australia when this man comes into my lounge on the box when compared with the usual news violence and nastiness.

Courageous..I don't have a clue.. for all I know he might recycle 80% of it back into poverty related projects.... which of course would be great..... To not say anything about it would also be very true to scripture.

My beef.. is that he openly and publicly criticized and vilified a high profile leader of a charity... and then.. while posturing himself as a battler for the poor.. takes on a job which pays him $250k ish a year.

I also take issue with the fact that WORLD VISION was begun as a "Christian" charity...and that means it should follow biblical guidelines.. as Paul testifies..he did tentmaking and other income producing work so he would NOT repeat NOT cause a financial burden on the Churches he served.

LEXI...pay what he is worth ? I note the man speaking is also a head of a 'charity' and he is in the same article with Costello claiming that 100k to 150k for a ceo is at the LOW end of the market.

Market ?...what "market" \

Cleary is in the same swamp as Costello in my view.

Look at this:

Compared to other ministers in the Uniting Church, he's certainly being overpaid.

Wesley Mission in Sydney claims its chief earns around $36,000 plus accommodation and car, while the national head of the church is on $50,000.

The head of the Brotherhood of St Laurence in Melbourne, Father Nic Francis, earns $75,000 a year plus a car and housing assistance.

He's in charge of an organisation with a turnover of $35 million a year, 600 staff and 1,000 volunteers

duh.... this puts Cleary and Costello's comments in perspective eh.

If Tim Costello were to make a public disassiation of WV from anything Christian...that might work for him. Then he can get a BIGer salary from the donations of people thinking they are helping 'the poor'.

Sorry..I'm not buying the 'Costello pay apologists' line.

AGIR:

You're simply stirring (as usual). I'm just not buying any of it.
Re-read my previous post - as to why not.
Moral indignation is in most cases 2% moral, 48% indignation and 50% envy.

As Winston Churchill said, "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

Thankyou agir, for finally admitting, and only when asked, that you haven't a clue what Tim Costello does with his wage.

Now, do you know what the charity leader who Tim Costello critisiced did with "his" wages?

Of course you don't.

Conclusion = you've been taking an opportunity to anonymously personally attack, behind the safety of your computer, Tim Costello.

You've attempted to slander Tim Costello by saying he's "posturing himself as a battler for the poor", with all the personal insinuations that implies. I invite you to front Tim Costello, face to face in the presence of witnesses, and make the same accusation.

You've also implied in your last post that if Tim Costello disassociates World Vision from Christianity "then he can get a BIGer salary from the donations of people thinking they are helping the poor". That personally slanderous, anonymous attack on Tim Costello suggests that Tim Costello's motivation for doing his good works is to get a large salary and that if he disassociates World Vision from Christianity, well ...... he'd be happy because his salary would be a "BIGer salary". I invite you to front Tim Costello, face to face in the presence of witnesses, and repeat your accusation.

Agir, you are a cowardly individual given succour by the anonymity of the internet. What is your "real" motivation behind your personal slander of Tim Costello?

Agir, may I suggest you start behaving more like Jesus Christ and less like Lucifer.

Dear Courageous... you are very bold also... same anonymity.

You seem to be missing the point here.

It doesn't MATTER what Tim does with his salary.. he might give heaps of it back... but...the issue is..HIM criticizing another charity leader and then... accepting withOUT qualification or apology to the other leader, for his own words which are on the public record.

It is my "opinion" that Costello is disconnecting World Vision from the faith he claims, by very simple argument.. "Biblical Principle"
and if you think I don't have the balls to go nose to nose with Tim on this issue.. you obviously don't know me.

If Tim can 'slander' as you put it...another Christian Charity head "I was stunned..shocked..yada yada" then he AFFIRMS the very Biblical arguments I'd use to him... then..I think it is entirely in order for him to cop a bit of flack too.

Did TIM know what that charity leader did with HIS pay when he humiliated and attacked him well?

There is a vast difference between slander and criticism based on the public record. (read up on it)

Agir wrote "did Tim Costello know what that charity leader did with HIS pay when he humiliated and attacked him as well"?

That's my point .......... you don't know what knowledge Tim Costello had regarding this.

You've "assumed" and implied that Tim Costello is criticising WITHOUT that knowledge and therefore is a hypocrite as a result. You've then gone on to imply that Tim Costello's motivation for his work is his wage and that he's "posturing himself" as a battler for the poor.

Agir, you come across as a very mean person. I greatly suspect that there's more to this than you're revealing and that your "real" motivations for your anti Tim Costello rhetoric lie elsewhere.

So, a graeter proportion of church-encouraged donations now go to church promotion, rather than rationally directed aid. Well done runner! You continue to parody the ignorant fundy so well! Keep proving to us all why fundies should be so gracious as to blow away.

Rusty

My only concern with charities and this is not to imply anything negative about the one Mr Costello is CEO of, is that there isn't sufficient public transparency and accountability for what is done with donations.

Government and the public are entitled to know precisely where the money is expended and what the results are. If there is an effective, efficient and robust way of achieving those purposes without unduly inconveniencing smaller charities I would be happy to support it.

I would prefer my dollars went to Mr Costello's remuneration as CEO of a reputable charity that achieves results, rather than being channeled to a group of ill-informed activists.

Hey Courageous.. are you suggesting that Tim Costello has access to the other blokes bank accounts..or that he has employed a private investigator to sus his spending habits out ? Get real.

My point stands untouched..you haven't laid a glove on it.

1/ Tim Costellow is 'shocked and dumbstruck' about the salary (not the spending habits) of another charity CEO.
2/ Tim Costello then underlines that 'If you are in Christian service it's all about sacrifice yada yada'.

3/ Tim Costello has repeatedly postured himself in the Media as a battler for the poor and a critic of the rich (See photo of him outside 'Bank of Greeeeed')

4/ Tim Costello then takes on a job at a MUCH higher salary than the man he criticized.

5/ HAS Tim Costello made a public apology to that other CEO in the meantime? If so.. I'd love to see it.

What Tim or the other bloke DO with their money is not relevant to the point at issue.

PS.. do you work in the upper echelons of World Vision ?

Due to all of the above.. it would be the LAST charity I'd give to.

Corny.."Reputable Charity" ? :) hmmm I'm a thinking you don't know much about what goes on in the fields where these mobs work.

Imagine this... your hard earned and generously donated charity dollars are flagrantly splurged on buying a FLEEET of Kenworth trucks for the distribution of "aid" on the understanding that when you have done your bit.. the trucks remain behind as the personal property of the "el Presidente"!

I won't mention the charity this time.. but it's not specifically world vision. I got that from a field director for one.. he used to be in my youth group..I taught him for quite a few years.

I think I'd rather support people from my own Church who are giving up time and holiday to goto Uganda to help build schools and dorms for Orphans. I can see and know what was spent..and guess what.. we they have NO CEO and NO remuneration..they do it for HIM who gave all for us.

Hmmm, I wonder what the "real" reason is for agir's antipathy towards Tim Costello?

Agir has been unable to effectively explain himself, and just repeats and repeats and repeats the same slurs and innuendos against Tim Costello.

And now agir has embarked on a new tactic. He's using a strawman attack (an attack when one argues against something that was never said in the first place). A strawman attack where he suggests I'm saying that Tim Costello has hacked the bank account of Tim Langley and has hired a private investigator to investigate the financial affairs of Tim Langley. And that's then followed by a question that implies I may be employed "in the upper echelons of World Vision". Using the strawman tactic allows agir to then adopt a high moral ground. His tactic speaks for itself.

So, now that agir has completely lost the debate, he's gone on to using strawman attacks because he has no answers to my debating points.

Government and the public are entitled to know precisely where the money is expended.

.,................

Called an accounting system.

I think I'd rather support people from my own Church who are giving up time and holiday to goto Uganda to help build schools and dorms for Orphans. I can see and know what was spent..and guess what.. we they have NO CEO and NO remuneration..they do it for HIM who gave all for us.

..................

naturally you will support who you wish as you choose. I like to comment on people whom come into my lounge through the box, based on my own narrow worldview. I prefer to see articles about Tim when compared with high level politics or the result of drunken high speed collisions. I expect to see all of the news, of course. I never expect it to be all accurate, nor do I expect any person doing good for humanity to measure up to any standards I have for myself. What I will say is based on not Tim's activities, but his speech on various topics for which he is interviewed.

It can be a worry when we pick on people for displaying human traits.

Interesting. Your 'Bank of Greed' photo is of Tim Costello and a colleague outside the Labor Club. The cheque is made out to state governments, and makes no mention of the Westpac Bank. Hardly bullying the bank, as I see it.

As for Costello's comments about Langley's salary - http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s139045.htm - I can't entirely support him except to say that attitudes and perceptions change over time. Perhaps he has changed his mind? If he said what he believed and then his beliefs changed, then he hardly needs to apologise. If his words were prompted by envy, then that's a different story. Certainly if he considers his role with World Vision to be a part of his religious calling, and an extension of his role as a minister, then he should explain why it is now acceptable to take such a salary when it wasn't back in 2000.

With all of that said, I have no problem with the CEO of a successful organisation that actively helps others earning $250,000 a year. While I have always been a bit unsure of World Vision's methods, they have certainly helped to raise awareness of the plight of those less fortunate than us, and have also contributed to the improvement of that plight. If, when I am in my 50s, I can earn a handsome salary while doing a world of good, I know I won't be saying "no".

aye, who in to creation and back is claiming that my feeling of pride in being Australian (as explained above) is not relevent because Mr Costello is paid well?

madcowness, "Called an accounting system."

Recording runs under what accounting standards and what auditing is in place? Also, you missed my point about measurable outcomes, which is something different.