The artificial/natural dichotomy is usually irrelevent. In medicine a medication derived from a plant is considered natural while a medication with the identical chemical composition generated in a laboratory can have exactly the same effect. Yet "produced by natural means" is a selling point. It is more reasonable to consider the effects in making a value judgement rather than judging on the basis that something is artificial or natural.

I agree, davidf; value judgements, discretion, discrimination are dodgy concepts these days. One thing I agree with liberals on is our society is far too ordered. And education is definitely designed to produce conformism and good consumers, rather than allowing individuals to hone their strengths. Teenagers of course have a natural propensity to conform (although I never did) with the in thing. Much as state run education was a necessary step after the bad old days of Dickensian education, but now it oversteps the mark and tries to be all things for all seasons, while signally failing to be any of them. Education today is predicated as much on personal development and psychology as much as anything else. and an Eye to turn out reliable products. What are actually turned out, in droves, are dysfunctional and "fake" individuals; the ego is filled with air at the expense of the intellectual faculties. It's so nice to meet unselfconscious eccentrics--how I imagine davidf to be.

Religion! I'm far from done with idealism and spirit as a hobby, but materialism is the business of life. Organised religion is as pre-packaged as organised education and I despise the dumbed down product that's pedalled on street corners and in school grounds. All such soliciting should be banned from State Schools. In my kids' primary school (I'm friends with the deputy principle) the whole bloody lot of them are rabid Christians. I'm against chaplains in schools, but in our case it makes no difference as the chaplain is lost among the other zealots!
All things considered, there are healthy examples of us and them. We have to maintain a healthy opposition!

Dear Squeers,

I doubt that anyone who divides the world into us and them thinks that his division is unhealthy. That is one of the problems with the we/they gestalt.

I agree that organised education is designed to produce conformity. The process of socialisation by which a child is trained to enter the adult world is in general designed to produce conformity. Organised education is only one example. It is not confined to humans but a part of the training process of any social animal. This lends stability to human and non-human social groupings.

I appreciate your characterisation of me.

I believe I was an unusual teenager. I wanted to conform. I encountered those wonderful human beings with curvy bodies, long eyelashes, delightful protuberances and heavenly aromas, and I wanted them to like me. Occasionally one of those delightful creatures would spend some time with me. I was transported. Then my eyes would start to swell up and water. My nasal passages would clog. Was I allergic to them? It took a while, but I found out the problem. I was not allergic to them but allergic to orris root which was a common ingredient in cosmetics

O....k....hate to be a wet blanket on all the warm fuzzy 'inclusivemess'
(no..not a typo)

But the 100 youths beating the hell out of each other at Westfield Mt Druit were both of "Pacific Islander" background.

This most likely translates into Samoan's Vs Maories or Tongans or some kind of mix like that, though..it could just be the same group which identies locally... Mt Druit and Granville.

Plenty of we/THEM there....... but both the we/them are not us. huh ?

Errr.... hang on a moment there, Boaz.

>>But the 100 youths beating the hell out of each other at Westfield Mt Druit were both of "Pacific Islander" background. This most likely translates into Samoan's Vs Maories or Tongans or some kind of mix like that, though..it could just be the same group which identies locally... Mt Druit and Granville. Plenty of we/THEM there...<<

Aren't you the guy who thinks that us/them is what makes the world go round?

>>I am absolutely, unapologetically, forever + 1, an advocate of "us/them"<<

I would have thought that Samoans vs Maories "or some kind of mix like that" would be right up your street, up there with vibrant Bogside and the dynamic Shankill Road.

But then, consistency - even from one post to the next - is never one of your strong points, is it.

"Artificial" means

Created by people, as

Are all these comments