this is one of those links that make one go huh?

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=195608.msg1160375;topicseen#msg1160375

clearly a think tank...action man group
another well financed well resourced front

[front][as in watch the hand]
not the money behind it

OK Bazz,

I don't think I "must be right". Even if I am right, however pithily I try to represent myself here, it must be highly debatable merely by token of its sketchiness. But it's surely a fact at fundamental levels that conservative means "steady as she goes" and progressive means bugger tradition, let's fix it..
You can just accuse me of a "mind-set" if you like, but can you back it up with argument? One can't cheat at this. One can either make a compelling argument or one cannot. In my opinion conservatives are at a natural disadvantage. But please prove me wrong. What is your argument?

Conservation is one of the most important words we use here.
Unfortunately it is miss used more than not.
Bob Carr few may know was very high up in the Scouts before he became this states biggest achiever in conservation memory.
Far from status quo we now have national parks regenerating and headed toward being a national treasure.
Opinion makers are often wrong, greens supporters know they are subject to attacks, from me too,but stick solidly behind their side.
A news reporter who is free to put their own point in to news or the script writer, are opinion makers.
Only a few off us get behind that often wrong view.
Look away for a while from politics look at sport, cricket, two days will do the day before yesterday and yesterday.
Australia getting thrashed new captain and team wanted to hero worship again, all opinions not based on facts.

Belly:
<Conservation is one of the most important words we use here>

That may be so, Belly, but I've been talking about "conservatism", which is at the opposite, even antithetical, side of the political spectrum to "conservation".
As you say, <Unfortunately it [conservation] is miss used more than not>

True, but I haven't misused it.
I often disagree with conservationists (Tim Flannery gutlessly opined recently that the present competitive system was the natural and better one), but I always disagree with conservatives.
I've yet to see a conservative viewpoint legitimated, let alone defended..
But I'm ready to be enlightened.

I actually agree with you Squeers.
I almost beg Gillard not to run in to leftist land but to be inventive, take chances, get out from under the 24 hour news cycle.
It the strongest way opinion makers/news cycles are bending policy's and even putting silly ones out there.
Say the cash for clunkers,surely an opinion making policy?
That will not work, why not halve sales tax new cars flooding the market with cheaper near new ones?
Sorry you will not agree but Gillard now,MUST understand we must send failed refugees home faster.
Change the laws if we have to, take more from Indonesia and none from boats, why?
Opinion makers force us to, they do, no matter what policy what truth in that policy, opinions change,votes with them.
Based on what opinion makers say, this issue could without doubt change governments.

those who seek to help gillard..
need to teach her a new way of party thinking

filter everything..through how much will this help the people
not the person..not the adhenda...not the party..not the corperation

but how much will this help
the avarage working joe/blow
will this help the people..or just a few

no more taxes on the poor
not even the poor smokers..
make the poluters pay...by making the highend...[big] users pay more

the more you use..the more you pay
be it water..or electicity...or subsidised meds
if your greedy..your just too needy..pay the rent