I have had this thread in mind for some time.
But thought it could wait, let others start one.
Yesterday changed my mind.
ABC Radio National and TV bough it in to the spotlight.
Opinion makers can be ,often are presenters or commentators with little or no understanding of issues.
Bias and uninformed comment has an impact on some who are exposed to it.
I have several things to table that seemingly show ABC bias once ALP has shifted to the greens.
But yesterday.
Radio national had an informative go at the tragic events at Christmas Island.
Even an expert who gave very good reasons why that boat may have not been seen on radar.
Even put the blame on weather, far worse than we think of as stormy.
He told a believable seemingly independent story, one most Australians would hope is true.
At night the ABC got its sleeves rolled up and told a different tale.
Interviewing folk who wrote books about a previous event no one not one,did not appear to want only a negative view of the policy the handling and the truth behind this tragic event.
A thousand storys are in my head about lack of expertise in opinion makers lets see if we get a run.

its commentary..[opinion]...
not science..[fact]

how goes the saying..believe half of what you see
nothing of what you hear..

people lost the abilitry to reason
thery get told..you dont get pensions..anymore
you need work choices

so we will take 3 percent of ya wages..for supper..then raise it..[next it jumps up to 13 percent..but where is the protest]

put you on a fixed contract...
no overtime..no holiday leave loading

next we get the banker scam...yes the bailouts
where govt issued govt bonds..[the bankers buy]..
to raise cash..to bail out the broke banks...[hey its so clever]

there is so much opinion[commentary]..that we never hear the fact
like global cooling/warming/change..where we hear about its cheaper to do it now[but then find the science..presented by the econimists..was flawed

now they only want a carbon tax..[so the carbon traders can trade their carbon credits]..and people fail to see the cash grab

recall when they tried to tax tea..[in usa]
or tried to tax salt..in india
people hit the streets

but we can tax smokers..nuthing
tax wage earners...nuthing..[income isnt wage]
we can tax road users for going too fast or too slow
even tax them toll...and rego..and compulsory insurances

its all about money
and who does the media serve?
business..selling product..with an adgenda..reaping in cash flow
[and govt gift...the latest scam .is subsidizing nicoteen..[in gum]

a life time subsidy..for a poisen..[its addictive..folks]
get it?

its a clever scam...create guilt..
then tax it to death...[its for your own good]

not convinced..turn on ya tv
or ya radio..or read a magazine..
or news paper..or a blog..or read ya inbox

opinions are like buttholes
we all got one..

what makes..hannadies opinion
worth more than yours..is his paycheck..

some do it..[do anything]..for money
others think..professional opinion..must be true

thus repeat it..till they swallow it

god bless the media...eh
but for them we wouldnt hear a human-voice

..populist uprising are historically led by people who have individual self-respect,..something very much lacking in today’s society,..as well as collective confidence and trust in one another.

“When you’re living in a society that breaks people’s self-respect and breaks their bonds of trust with one another,..it makes it very difficult to have any kind of democratic revolutionary movement,” remarks Levine.

Levine identifies the process..of “learned helplessness” as one of the primary factors..that has led to society feeling broken,..demoralized, hopeless and defeated.

He cites an experiment involving dogs where both groups of animals were subjected to electro-shocks, wherein one group of dogs was able to stop the electro-shocks and the other was not.

The dogs not able to stop the shocks moved into passivity and depression, and even when presented with the opportunity to escape did not even try to take it because they had learned helplessness.

Levine compares this to national elections, where people vote for either Democrats or Republicans but still end up with the same consequences, or don’t vote whatsoever but still end up with the same consequences. “That’s learned helplessness,” explains Levine,

“No matter what you do
you’re going to get that same degree of pain.”

Levine compares the apathy and the lack of demonstrations against the 2000 election fraud controversy in the U.S. to similar examples in Mexico in Iran, where millions of people protest even though in doing so they are risking their lives.

He identifies debt as a central contributor to people’s apathy and how populations are broken. Unlike previous generations, every young person who leaves education is now saddled with an average of $20,000 of debt, and so are petrified of losing their job or having their benefits taken away, thus are far less likely to go out and protest against the system that holds them in bondage.



Three other major factors that have broken an entire generation of young people are the influence of television, the education system, and the mental health profession

Because kids spend all their spare time watching TV and playing video games, they are losing their interest in reading, points out Levine, the perfect cocktail for an authoritarian regime that needs helpless, dumbed-down victims who will tolerate any amount of intellectual and political disengagement.

In turn, by forcing children to read books they are not interested in, schools discourage kids from becoming individual readers and restrict their capacity for critical thinking.

School is an authoritarian pacifier, states Levine, while television also teaches young people that the only way to get entertained is through some authority.

Meanwhile, kids who rebel become victims of the mental health industry, an inter-personal police force where the pacifying weapons are medication and drugging.

Any form of individualistic behavior is increasingly being characterized as aberrant, warns Levine, as part of the process of suppressing a general rebellion against the status quo, as the list of mental disorders listed by the American Psychiatric Association grows and grows with each re-issue of the DSM Manual, which is the bible for the mental health industry.

Levine explains how prior to 1980, there was no “oppositional defiance disorder” listed in the DSM Manual, and how psychiatric conditions listed in the manual are for the most part added for cultural and political reasons, not for genuine health concerns.

As we have documented, the process of identifying those who question authority as mentally ill is rooted in some of the most brutal authoritarian regimes in history. Critics of the state were branded mentally ill and sent to psikhushkas – mental hospitals – in the former Soviet Union.

Speaking on the subject of the most common mental illness..depression

Levine notes how the condition was very rare..as recently as 25 years ago,..but that since an industry grew up around bombarding people with medication,..over-prescription of depression became a very lucrative business,..with normal human behavior being medicalized as a form of depression.

However..the major reason for skyrocketing rates of depression is the cultural shift..towards social isolation,..lack of support..and lack of community,

with around 25 per cent of Americans..now living alone..and 25 per cent also saying that they now have no confidants*..whatsoever in their life..whom they can trust..and receive empathy from,

a figure up from just 10 per cent in 1980.

Learnt Helplessness..must be linked with low self esteem.

the whole point of the MSM and the negativity of news is to generate learnt helplessness not to mention people being conditioned to think only of themselves.

If people are individualised they are trained to think that they have no power..and cant change anything..on their own.

Its meant to make you feel disconnected
and disenfranchised and impotent and nihilistic.

It takes a certain amount of will..on the part of the individual to see past it..and a certain amount of intelligence.

Its a psychological..as well as an information war.

Unfortunatly the line should have beed drawn long ago.

There are too many terms coined “boiling frog” “Collective behavior” “Crowd theory” to describe the lack to will to be the one to say, No

There is a tipping point where one will lose.

When you are poor and have nothing to lose, you may decide “its time to fight back”..BUT..by that time you have nothing left to fight back with.

They have won.

After that? Who knows.

FEMA camp, bread line, it doesnt matter
because you can’t fight back.

When you’ve got nothing left to lose,
you’ve got nothing to fight with.

only words..and more hear THIER WORDS

Belly, I understand what you are saying. I did not bother to read the
other comments. In fact I seldom do read them.
As I said elsewhere the primary fault lies with the master as he took
the vessel to the windward side of the island.
Not one commentator took up that point.

It is obvious listening to the debate on the NBN that the commentators
and the politicians do not understand what they are talking about.
The one exception to that might be Malcolm Turnbull as he was I
believe the mover behind Ozemail.
All the others who push the NBN have a barrow load of money to push.

What concerns me is when a subject comes up on the TV that I either
have a reasonable level of knowledge or in fact have very detailed
knowledge they almost always get it very wrong indeed.
It raises the question, are they just as inaccurate on the things
that I do not know anything about ?

So your question about them being opinion formers is a real worry.

Belly, interesting that perceived ABC bias is in the eyes of the beholder. Some see their reporting as left of centre, others see it as leaning to the right.

The following thread highlights some of the issues you raise.

<<And the ABC’s Drum beats: shoot the Wikileaks messenger: Comments
By Jennifer Wilson, published 14/12/2010>>

You have a couple of choices in relation to the ABC and much of the MSM.

Firstly, that they have an inherent agenda that steers both the news they selectively release and the opinion they offer on any given topic.

Secondly, that they “appear” to have changed their position due their “relative position” to the object. In the case of your example related to their “relative position” on ALP policy. Does this relate to your position on the topic, to the ALP’s position on the topic or has the ABC shifted? Either way it seems you have only recently become aware of something.

To me, the media seems to in an absolute mess. They don’t know what day it is. Thrashing around in a daze wondering what they should say and what they have said. A bit like a “pea in a colander” and not knowing which hole to go for?

This seems to have its roots in the Wikileaks saga. They seem to feel threatened more that seems rational. Especially the ABC, why

Thanks all for the contributions.
We all have opinions and have spoken here about that.
But it is interesting on how we get those opinions.
Some opinion makers have less of an idea than we do.
In a radio National interview about a new coal mine it was clear.
The announcer from first word, took a firm stand against the mine.
I here and now say while I am not up to date with underground water and mining, I am unimpressed with anti mining in general.
Our announcer gave first blood to those who opposed the mine.
Constantly making comment that was openly questioning mining.
On getting to the mining company, wait for it, our commentator, the very person who had been displaying his understanding of all sides of the issue said this.
Quote did you say that the coal had to be washed? that changes every thing, I have never heard of coal being washed? end quote.
Some people too many form opinions based on such a persons words.
ABC has always been the best, and every side claims it is biased ,against them.
It is true, of different announcers and at different times.
I challenge any off us, to listen for one week to ABC radio.
I think some opinions are near universal,it is better than other radio.
It is more informative.
But biased , very much so in some who work the mike.
And rather uniformed comment, not unlike other media, is rampart.

An opinion maker can be an Innocent fool or a very crafty con man both types harvest your opinions.
Maybe in the first case not on purpose.
But we are in the business of being informed,even when we do not know it.
Wikileaks did not drive my thoughts here spin doc.
I have lived a life of seeing spin take the place of policy and deliberate farming of my opinion, I feel strong enough to look deeper before buying it.
Most recently I here, in OLO,, made a fool off myself,I bought hook line and sinker Mr Kevin Rudd.
I truly thought he was the man I sold here.
He is Brother to Mark Latham,a shadow,a man who never truly existed.
I watch with concern another not unlike him selling himself as something he is not.
Let us however keep it open, opinion makers are not all liars, some try to teach us the truth some try to help.
To understand opinion we must understand our personal education must never stop.

Belly, my son worked at the ABC for about 1o years.
When he started there someone he already knew and was a friend advised him to not tell anyone if he voted liberal.
It is a definate no no if you want to progress in your career there.
They have a saying at the ABC that the only ones in the closet are
liberal voters.

Your assumption that it is the presenters that impose their view is incorrect.
The blame resides with the production team, a real
collection of trendies.
The news readers work from prescripted text which is displayed on a
screen below the camera. However people like Tony Jones cannot work
live that way as they cannot know how the conversation will progress.
So the bias displayed by Tony Jones is all his own.
However it is marvelous what can be done in the editorring suite.

Coal washing is common. I think it is done to reduce dust,

A lot of ABC bashing here guys, two pages in fact, and yet only one clear example of the bias you're claiming.

Reports exist from all over the world of mining companies exploiting their workforce and cutting corners on environmental protection and the health and safety of their workers and of the local communities affected by the mine. It's hardly indicative of bias that after yet another accident thinking journalists might direct some of their questioning along these lines.

Belly, the point you were making regarding the reporting of the asylum seeker tragedy didn't seem to be spelled out very clearly. Bit difficult to refute a point so poorly made. Didn't stop Bazz though from jumping in and claiming he has the answers. It's far too early for anyone to be making sweeping pronouncements just yet. As with most issues, there are many factors that have contributed to this tragedy and it will take time to sort through them.

And of course while the commercial media move on to the next big story, it will be left as always to the journalists at the ABC to do the real probing.

Bronwyn welcome back.
I like your contributions we do not always agree,such is life stay please.
I am ALP forever and know the ABC is biased, in every direction depending on who has the mike,would you expect any difference ?
First my constant jabs at my side are because I care,read others one sided views only the other side gets it wrong.
Or the my team right or wrong and know such is a brick wall blocking improvements change in any party.
That word solidarity is a lie to stop investigation of one sides sins.
Mid north coast NSW .
ABC morning commentator, you just knew he was going to give air time to a local ALP member.
Mate ship flowed like wine, but in the real world that member had a fan club of one, himself, and was chucked out of the party.
Now commentator interviewed me, in regard to public service my hobby club was providing.
He left baffled , after he called[ in union shirt,sleep in them]comrade I bent both his ears in explain the word is meaningless I have brothers sisters mates but no comrades.
Bronwyn let truth clean up the ABC but it remains my radio and TV choice I Have learned this truth if you do not have Aussie male cow product detector get one.

My opinion as to the cause of the tragedy- cutting their engine to deliberately bring in the boat, in order to 'appear' stranded would be the 'norm' for Assylum Skippers in calm conditions.

Cutting the engine with the storms and rough seas billowing them, left no alternative other than for the vessel to plough into the Rocks [minus any type of control] he had when approaching shore.

He covered his own %$# at the time risking all on board in the event he and his passengers lived to face authorities.

Most people should know by now the psychology of Assylum Seeking skippers doing business.

Well.....again Capitalism just keeps the 5% HAPPY while we make them their money and rich lives.

Anyone see them sharing the wealth? Yeah right! Time to see I thinks.

A lot of ABC bashing here guys, two pages in fact, and yet only one clear example of the bias you're claiming.

Reports exist from all over the world of mining companies exploiting their workforce and cutting corners on environmental protection and the health and safety of their workers and of the local communities affected by the mine. It's hardly indicative of bias that after yet another accident thinking journalists might direct some of their questioning along these lines.

And Iam all ears to hear more on this point.

Could it be possible that all of humanity......could work with the bosses...that are willing with sharing the pay-day with the workers?

No! Your bosses are just greedy....and care about you not in the least.

Look! Sh@t for brains...............If we drop tools..........their up the......creek...without a paddle. Maybe that's what is needed............a full walk-out.. if not the dole will pay better with( and sharing the wealth )....and all just help your fellow workers out with the fair days pay.....Food and what not......and all get the same from the land we work from! or just cop it up the arse as your doing now.

The three musketeers once said.........all for one and one for all.

Look. Just to put it simply............without you...........they have nothing.

Thats all I can do.

The rest is up to you.

BLUE

Deep Blue that post intrigues me, what is it about.
You claim to be a conservative, throw stones at my side of politics then try to use false claims on their behalf.
5% we mostly all are capitalists, 5% at best would not consider themselves so.
This morning in our national Comic book/News paper the Australian is a must read.
A story like the ones we know that paper an produce, true honest.
I understand some did not live in the days of the MURDER of the Bali Australian news men BUTCHERED by an invading force.
East Timor, Australia, and those victims ours and Timors are still today victims of?
Opinion makers.
My party turned its back on the dead,Conservatives did too.
One Labor leader even called the leader of that country Papa.
We must bless Wikileaks for this mornings bright spotlight and never forget our opinions are being farmed just as surely as the sun will rise soon.
Truth honesty and public interest run last in a game full of filth and lies.
DIPLOMACY.
Bash the ABC? no evidence? such comment highlights some comment is of little value.

Belly,
Yes the media and in particular commentators have hugh influence over popular opinion. I have had very deep concern over the sway that Ray Hadley and Alan Jones have over sydney folk. I wonder how much the people who religiously listen and believe the rubbish these two speak actually know about these two commentators and their pasts, knowledge and qualification to be making the always biased and influential calls that they make daily.
It would seem this horror of mis information is repeated in every major city and regional centre country wide.

Alan Watt:..Shock and Awe
Manipulation of the Human Psyche

Alan Watt continues to divulge..how culture is created from the top down..and used by the elite to manipulate and pervert natural human instincts towards their own ends.

Every change in culture,..right down to fashion and music,..points out Watt citing Plato,..had to be authorized and promoted from the top.

This science of mass mind control is still taught today by the insiders and mediums such as television are used as weapons of social control to prevent humanity from ever realizing its full potential.

each cultural shift was deliberately timed
to be implemented..at a certain time.

how the elite's ultimate goal..for every human allowed to be born..is for them to serve the state..and be deceived into accepting this enslavement..as a natural form of existence.

The elite's greatest fear is that the "inferiors" will out-breed the "superiors," which is why they continually push neo-eugenics and are obsessed with inter-breeding..to keep their own genetics intellectually pure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLs-ez8yTto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCMKc2iuuT8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy6VIcYur5M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud1VT9OoChI

a thumbnail summery

of how..we got here..via opinion-makers

in 1913,..the private,..predominantly British owned Federal Reserve..was set up by staging a decade long media campaign..where the international bankers came out..and screamed and yelled and publicly financed*..*against The Federal Reserve Act.

That fooled at least enough of the public to get behind it, but still only a minority supported it, so they did a quorum call and had a minority of House members and Senate members pass it..two days before Christmas in 1913.

They simultaneously got their IRS,..of which there were dozens of other Constitutional taxes,..but the IRS income tax was meant to be paid directly in-to..the private central banks..based on the odious-debt..placed on the currency..they then ordered..to be created..and thus affecting its liquidity.

And now the superclass of banks..that dominated Europe now could start the long task..of using Federal regulators..*they controlled..to go in and take over banks..that were owned by other..separate elites..(and there were many other wealthy groups).

The international banks..*owned by a handful of families..who had met at Jekyll Island..right before the passage of the Federal Reserve Act to get all their ducks in a row.

Many men who publicly..were enemies..met in secret-they met on Jekyll Island Georgia...They bought up a majority of the newspapers,..even they already owned many of them.

They bought into fledgling radio,..they began massively funding universities,..buying off the different departments,..creating chairs (a chair meaning different funded departments..run by people endowed by them).

They built all the new major music halls..stadiums..sports..libaries..movie industry..and theaters with their names on them...

They sold the idea that they were these philanthropists.

They engineered, before that,..the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, which was really about making the old robber barons..and select elite groups’ money safe....from taxation, as everyone else’s money came under new predatory taxation rules,..which then were paid directly to them...via their banks

But then they advertised that..as another defeat for the bankers.

lol

Alright,..so I’ve spent enough time on that aspect..

next..

After getting control..in 1913 they then massively increased the money supply..[sound familiour?]..and issued hundreds of billions of dollars in liquidity,..not just in the United States but worldwide.[ringing any bells?]

Just as they have done..since the mid 1990’s and again this latest bubble,..*this contrived bubble...You see that’s how financial institutions,..the inner bodies (don’t confuse a Federal Reserve shareholding cartel bank with your mainstream bank-they engage in chicanery and corruption as well, but their nothing compared to this).

Don’t confuse a local corporation,..that may even make a billion bucks a year,..with the elite.

The true elite own primary holding shares*..in the central banks that run the nations...And they can issue themselves unlimited liquidity to buy up real assets.

And so now you[they]..had the amazing vertical integration of the wealth.

Consolidated..from the Top down.

So after 1913 they issue hundreds of billions of liquidity, and then in 1929 they shut the spigot off,*.. put out a bunch of articles in their newspapers about all these poor people and shoeshine boys investing in the stock market,

and how they’d..gotten greedy,..and how they’d lied on loan applications and how there was too much credit and that it was top heavy and that the American people had gotten,..had partied too much..[sound familiour]..

And they just cut the currency off.

They cut the liquidity off..while everyone was overextended and living on fifteen plus years..of super-cheap credit issued to anybody.

And so then that infected the stock market,..it infected other corporations,..and they just cut the spigot off..then bopught it all at cents on the dollar

..and for a decade they made alcohol illegal which tripled alcoholism,..that allowed federalization of police,..that allowed the corruption of police...farce..[threat/force..protection..of course]

The big banks..and the mafia groups had secretly..(and that’s come out)..*lobbied for prohibition..knowing that only criminal combines could bring in the liquor,..[with friendly..bribed police assistance]

and now its drugs...same scam

to make the liquor, and so a glass of beer went up in price about five hundred percent a shot of whiskey went up about five hundred percent.

Fabulous fortunes were made.

So they used black markets to bring down the nation, to corrupt the police, as they’d done just sixty years before in China, bringing in opium where it had always been illegal.

THEY LOVE DRUGS ritches..simply illegalise drugs..then use the income steam..to punish...their own cliantel

look at afganastan...thats where they grow their drugs
then rendition them globally..via the cia..[clever stuff eh]
blame it on hoover...inlaw of the dupont brothers...etc

British troops, U.S. intelligence, this is all historical fact, bringing in the opium, using it to corrupt the police, using it to then get them under their control, to break the country in ten parts and hand it to different parts of Europe and the United States.

Through a drug war! They are masters of the black markets, they bring in the black markets, same thing here.

And then of course, just to abbreviate things: The bottom line of the article we’re doing needs to state that this is engineered and why it’s important to understand it’s engineered. Because the more we give into these bankers the worse things are going to get.

People ask “How far they will push?” As far as we let them, that’s how far tyrants always push. They don’t stop. It’s their nature to dominate. They enjoy total control.

They openly hate the middle class and you having any wealth. They are not your friends, do you understand that? They’re ruthless beyond imagination.

They are diabolically keen and focused on total domination. And the greatest form of domination is, of course, extermination...of the useless eaters

oh heck why bother
if you really gave a damm
you could find the info..YOURSELF

but who cares right...lol

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=66363.

why do i care

I need to break down currently what’s happening, this is so important, this testament is important for people to understand.

So they engineer the crash in 1929, the stock market rollercoasters for a year then settles in, devalued by around ninety percent. But that wasn’t the bigger issue.

Then the banks as they went under, where gobbled up by larger private banks that were Federal Reserve held and they would come out and call in the entire loan on a farm, a ranch, a house, even if people where paying it, even if they had money.

In Kentucky and in Texas and in Kansas and in Illinois and in Colorado, everywhere. Hundreds of times in Kentucky. Hundreds of times in Colorado. Hundreds of times in the Dakotas. Hundreds of times in California…army tanks would pull up, men would ride in on horseback and they would just kill everyone.

There were huge battles and martial law all over the United States. Strikers would be mowed down by Pinkerton Security in New Jersey. Just whole…people would march with their children, they would just mow them down with machine guns in the streets.

If veterans protested they would move in with tanks and machine guns and slaughter hundreds on the spot.

But the bankers own the newspapers/publishers..news papers..histry books..printers and university-deptments

so you don’t know about it today.
cause its not part of the uni course

So the banks set up the Federal Reserve in the name of stopping any panics or runs that they’d had at a smaller level on a regional basis before 1913.
They engineered the Depression.

They institute martial law with the War Powers Act in 1933 under Franklin Delano Roosevelt. They go around all over the country kicking people off their ancestral lands, in many cases claiming they hadn’t paid local taxes and taking land that was paid for.

And see now you’re hearing the same thing:..“Oh, we may call in whole mortgages.”[regarding October 2008 engineered financial collapse by international banking families]..You see how that works.

see why your power/water..rates..ie consumable prices have doubled

Going back for two years [2006] they’ve been having people at closes, at the very end when they’re closing on a mortgage “Oh, sign here that we can change this agreement without you knowing whenever we want.”

And the people are tricked into signing it.
Oh yeah, a fraud provision, a sharecropper contract.

Look, let me just accelerate up to what’s currently happening. “A”, this is engineered. They set up the martial law preparations, they prepared the military for all of it, they put them through the urban warfare training and told them it was for America.

FEMA went around in the last three years [2005-2008] hiring over twenty six thousand preachers secretly to train their flocks to do what government says, to turn their guns in, to go to FEMA camps. We told you that before it was declassified last year [2007].

Again the credibility. Everything we tell you happens. They militarized the police. They went from five hundred thousand cops to 3 million cops. They built federal command centers in every major city overseeing the surrounding counties with live-time GPS tracking via the cell towers triangulating down to all the telephones.

(people always play semantical games with that, the cell towers are GPS, they triangulate into the phone down to fifteen feet regulation).

A military control grid was put in place. And then we get the IMF and World Bank documents, leaked after Joseph Stiglitz leaves The World Bank as their chief economist.

And they talk about how they imploded Argentina by design. How they imploded hundreds of other countries.

*The secret agreements they make governments sign, where they pay off the leaders to sell out the infrastructure to inflate the currency and then hand everything over to the bankers...*once the economy implodes....

and the new govt
cant change what the old govt done...get it

but its odious debt...criminality..actual treason..

but the media isnt going to tell you this
they wont teach that at school..

so you will never know
till its too late...mate

Yes Bazz, I know exactly what you are talking about.

Due to the life I have led, I know a very great deal about a small number of subjects. It is so rare to ever hear anyone on air, who does not have it wrong on these subjects. In fact there are many areas where I know just enough to see how little they actually understand.

Normally it's bad enough, but this "summer series" emanating from somewhere down south is even worse. My radio in the shed is frozen on the ABC, but this tripe is so bad I have turned it off.

Poorly informed radio commentators are bad enough, but when you find our academics are often even worse it's a worry.

After years working with coral reefs in PNG, & The Solomons, & spending a lot of time learning from locals who's lives revolved around their reef, I had learnt a bit.

I then had a lot of contact with the GBR marine park authority, AIMS, & James Cook marine dept. I thought they would be interested in what I had learnt, particularly stuff contrary to current dogma. The last thing they wanted was to think of anything contentious. I was shocked.

I found a number pf PhD students were very interested. I hope they never let their professors know whey had spoken to me.

The ABC is not biased. It is simply the case that the Right is intellectually and ethically vacant. What looks like bias is merely a position of substance juxtaposed by its opposite, no substance. This is reflected in the media; the commercial stations are owned by vested interests and their stock in trade is bias and prejudice, and pandering to these qualities among the masses. Commercial media adapts its "news" to popular taste and conservative agendas; and if it doesn't appeal, it's off the menu.
The ABC's nowhere near ballsy enough for me, but it serves up an intellectual feast compared with the overly seasoned but impoverished gruel paled out by commercial media.

Squeers seems you and at least one other have skipped the bit about ABC being my media, and biased in my view.
This Saturday morning, early news broadcast on commercial radio.
Young lady said Australian government was protecting its self from allegations it had bared and Indonesian official, ex politician, and man of influence from coming here.
Now tell me, in both the national news paper and the Sydney Herald, can ANY ONE find ANY reason to say the government is defending its self.
The story has been brutally asulted twisted and used to say some thing it never did.
Sorry hasbeen,truly,tried very hard today to help you out of a hole.
But your self promoting post here is not your first,not charming mate, uninteresting too.
I never saw you as an opinion maker, maybe you see your self as one?

Yeah, yeah, Squeers if you say so.
Even if they were not biased your reasoning is just silly.

It smacks of the typical green condescension, ie we are green so we
must be right on everything

Well said, Squeers.

Just noticed a brief statement on a sidebar on the ABC News Online Site which states:

"The ABC News Online Investigative Unit encourages whistleblowers, and others with access to information they believe should be revealed for the public good, to contact us,...."

Sounds promising.

Belly,
you're dead right. I have to admit it irritates me the way the ABC cuts through the crap and instead of delivering verbatim, they translate the political bullsh!t---as if I didn't know. But you have to remember that most of the news is drip-fed by PR and other controlled dispensations. Do you prefer the adulterated "truth"? It's a damn shame that the ABC feels it's necessary to be "cynical" about the "news", but what you're going to get otherwise, in fact what you do get from the commercial outlets, is pure, unadulterated bullsh!t--that is, conservative, Panglossian spin.
Bazz:
<Yeah, yeah, Squeers if you say so.
Even if they were not biased your reasoning is just silly.

It smacks of the typical green condescension, ie we are green so we
must be right on everything>

Bazz,
Green's not really my agenda; I tend to be "dark" green, which excludes most puerile, or garden variety, Greens.
But on conservatism, I defy you to provide (perhaps on another thread) one conservative intellectual position that's defensible, in fact that's even half thoughtful.. Conservatism stands for stasis--no?

Sorry Poirot,
missed that till now. Thanks for the support.

I should add too that I'm not saying the ABC is perfect. They actually miss most of the spin, and they're at the very least quasi-commercial.
But compared with the masses and what passes for political opinion in this country, they're deep!

Squeers; I was not implying you were a green, I used it to illustrate
a state of mind.

However you demonstrate the same attitude again in your last post.
You are destined to crash on your assumption.

this is one of those links that make one go huh?

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=195608.msg1160375;topicseen#msg1160375

clearly a think tank...action man group
another well financed well resourced front

[front][as in watch the hand]
not the money behind it

OK Bazz,

I don't think I "must be right". Even if I am right, however pithily I try to represent myself here, it must be highly debatable merely by token of its sketchiness. But it's surely a fact at fundamental levels that conservative means "steady as she goes" and progressive means bugger tradition, let's fix it..
You can just accuse me of a "mind-set" if you like, but can you back it up with argument? One can't cheat at this. One can either make a compelling argument or one cannot. In my opinion conservatives are at a natural disadvantage. But please prove me wrong. What is your argument?

Conservation is one of the most important words we use here.
Unfortunately it is miss used more than not.
Bob Carr few may know was very high up in the Scouts before he became this states biggest achiever in conservation memory.
Far from status quo we now have national parks regenerating and headed toward being a national treasure.
Opinion makers are often wrong, greens supporters know they are subject to attacks, from me too,but stick solidly behind their side.
A news reporter who is free to put their own point in to news or the script writer, are opinion makers.
Only a few off us get behind that often wrong view.
Look away for a while from politics look at sport, cricket, two days will do the day before yesterday and yesterday.
Australia getting thrashed new captain and team wanted to hero worship again, all opinions not based on facts.

Belly:
<Conservation is one of the most important words we use here>

That may be so, Belly, but I've been talking about "conservatism", which is at the opposite, even antithetical, side of the political spectrum to "conservation".
As you say, <Unfortunately it [conservation] is miss used more than not>

True, but I haven't misused it.
I often disagree with conservationists (Tim Flannery gutlessly opined recently that the present competitive system was the natural and better one), but I always disagree with conservatives.
I've yet to see a conservative viewpoint legitimated, let alone defended..
But I'm ready to be enlightened.

I actually agree with you Squeers.
I almost beg Gillard not to run in to leftist land but to be inventive, take chances, get out from under the 24 hour news cycle.
It the strongest way opinion makers/news cycles are bending policy's and even putting silly ones out there.
Say the cash for clunkers,surely an opinion making policy?
That will not work, why not halve sales tax new cars flooding the market with cheaper near new ones?
Sorry you will not agree but Gillard now,MUST understand we must send failed refugees home faster.
Change the laws if we have to, take more from Indonesia and none from boats, why?
Opinion makers force us to, they do, no matter what policy what truth in that policy, opinions change,votes with them.
Based on what opinion makers say, this issue could without doubt change governments.

those who seek to help gillard..
need to teach her a new way of party thinking

filter everything..through how much will this help the people
not the person..not the adhenda...not the party..not the corperation

but how much will this help
the avarage working joe/blow
will this help the people..or just a few

no more taxes on the poor
not even the poor smokers..
make the poluters pay...by making the highend...[big] users pay more

the more you use..the more you pay
be it water..or electicity...or subsidised meds
if your greedy..your just too needy..pay the rent

I agree with you OUG, we should be taking far more tax off the top.
As for smokers, the taxes are an outrage, especially for those like my mother who were seduced and addicted while it was still a state-sanctioned, heavily marketed drug. I think anyone over a certain age should not have to pay the tobacco tax. They should get their drug virtually free. By the same token, they should be advised that if they choose to keep smoking they forfeit their right to transplants etc.

Belly,
In my opinion nothing can redeem Rudd, Gillard or the Labor Party.
I won't get into the refugee issue.

Squeers let us look at Australian politics.
It is not off subject, partly as a result of opinion makers it is over all not very good.
Labor, my mob, are in it deeply,who could have seen the nature of Rudd this time last year.
Gillard? well she is doomed, I get verbally flogged for saying that,, but the same folk once flogged all who said bad of Rudd,then helped remove him.
Perception is every thing, Gillard is gone,soon, Bill Shorten, no Rudd will take over,but he too must confront the 24 hour news cycle.
Now Conservatives, has any one seen them so out of policy's and plans?
Just as Labor is propped up by conservatives lost,, nature Abbott too owes his revival to, Labors decent,not his wild fluctuating policy's.
Now Greens, can any one see ever them getting more than about 15% of the vote?
Mid year they inherit about 50% of power nothing can pass the house unless major party's unite against them.
Chasing the opinion makers the 24 hour news cycle is hurting Australian politics.
Hiding failure is hurting my party, not daring to dream is too.
The Rudd ship, the polling leads the idea that he was other than the ugly thing he is, the idea Gillard, a woman who would become anything to stay in power is an answer for my party is wrong.
That ship was a phantom of no use.
This country needs leadership, it needs direction, Squeers we can not avoid the refugee issue, you may wish to but both party's have made it center stage.
Australians are this morning hurt at the deaths hurt too at the signs saying UN help us, no policy's that can not stop these boats will be excepted by this country's voters any more.

Bill Shorten is the man Rudd had us believe he was, he will be fresh air and 100% fair dinkum.
His task is not easy,dragged pushed and panicked by opinion makers Labor promised much delivered little.
ETS , boy they look silly now but we are re birthing that policy that helped elect us.
Cash for clunkers, fuel watch, grocery watch, the rather heedless fight against banks interest rates opinion makers frightened them into.
We said sorry but built no homes we run away from asking for accountability for welfare.
Why not think big, why not say to Australia we need to change .
When will some one say let us look at social welfare and help those we can while controlling fraud.
Why not make government things work not selling them.
Our politicians,all of them have given up politics to satisfy a grubby unfocused and uncaring media.
One that takes a story and stretches it bends it and presents it as truth.
The opinion makers,are lowering our ability to get good government.

Belly,
I also am a Labor voter. That's why I'm disgusted with the party; because it isn't Labor and hasn't been for decades, if ever.
It is virtually indistinguishable from Liberal, and vice versa.

Politicians are in the main educated and accordingly disgusted by the hysterics over the trickle of refugees Australia has to process. There are a few dyed in the wool conservatives who mean it when they say "stop the boats", but mostly they're just pandering to popular paranoia--which, on this issue, is worse among the grass roots of blue-collar Labor than educated Liberals. It's a despicable issue that reveals "Australianness" for what it "really" is; and it turns the stomachs, I suspect, of most politicians on both sides of the political divide. But popular democracies are such that political contenders have to play the cards they're dealt. How they must despise their constituents, I suspect.

Belly:
<Our politicians,all of them have given up politics to satisfy a grubby unfocused and uncaring media.
One that takes a story and stretches it bends it and presents it as truth.
The opinion makers,are lowering our ability to get good government>

Belly,
you think?
Politicians have no interest in the media per se (they hate it), only in how it "represents them" (representation is everything). The media is a sitting duck. The media is the interface between politicians and the public, ergo politicians try first to manipulate the media and second, to play it as best they can in order to court the popular vote. Your comments above are true of popular (commercial) media because their interests and the politicians' interests are identical: RATINGS, POPULARITY (commercial interest). The only way the ABC and other (sometimes) respectable organs can avoid being "played" is to second-guess the bullsh!t the politicians want to broadcast as gospel. This is a wonderful grey area. But yet more wonderful is that the popular audience (which listens to Alan jones and watches 60 Minutes open-mouthed) actually see this as the contested ground. The real action is the product, the fall-out, how the benighted masses, the popular vote, can be manipulated. There is no truth, no ethics, no mandate; there's only popular politics. The "issues" are patronage..

This is CDF isn't it??

To a degree Squeers I share those views BUT.
I think about 20% of voters are for sale, not interested in understanding politics.
I just have to be careful to get my opinion explained as it is here.
Yes we are not the old ALP,that is both good and bad.
I do not require my party to govern only for my class, working.
I remember some of those ideals we held in my childhood kept us in opposition.
I dislike the middle class take over of my party.
Please understand I never wanted a union heaven, understand the idea good government is for most of the country.
I have a very long history in the movement, but at a function seem to see new people with a few months membership.
The new Labor limpets ,young up worldly mobile couples, have a hold on parliamentarians, fawning over them and it sickens me.
Reality however screams at me Labor had no choice it had to take the ground conservatives left on its rush to the right.
The future will be better for Labor,falls do lead to regrowth, but right now?
Federally few know, less care,Gillard is recycling her Latham team Crean, an ex unionist who defiled his dads record and that awful Hunter MP who was being rewarded by China for a start.
We are all opinion makers and that 20% can be bought, government with it.
No true leftist Labor or greens will again govern this country.
I want only good Government from Labor not good opposition forever.
We must understand current conservative policy's are a danger to us and our country , unity is our only hope.

sameness..[between the parties]..kept you out of power
keating/hawke...were sellouts..sold out the working slob

[so too is billy boy]

bill like julia is part of the problem

just like jonny how-hard...and the abbot and the bishop..are the problem..they...all..drunk the coolaid..all serve the israelie/yanki business corperation...opperating via the british law society

all talk of average wages
NOT MINIMUM wage...[which is what the average wage earner gets]

these MINIMUM wages are much put upon by the elitsist employer assosiations...mr how hard screwed them out on a due wage increase

TO GIVE them super..[not that any of the poor slobs will ever collect it..its all chewed up by fees..and other nasties...while the real elites get nice topups]

then they got increased burden's..extra taxes,higher fees/charges..less service..more policing..all the while their MINIMUM wages...kept falling lower and lower

yes average wages went up...
but average workers DONT GET..AVERAGE WAGES

only the top [elites]..get anywhere near average wage..
you know the ones who get other lurks..like cars..petrol vouches..or govt superanuation..cheap rents..or other bonus

but why bother
the whole barrel is rotten

all in poli-ticks are scummmm..[not just some]
party hacks papering over the cracks...just like bloggers

wont get into the media..
[might spoil their HOLIDAYS]

poor sellout saps..the blooming lot of em
[especially the unionists..who stopped striking back]

they were all we had

Well Belly, yes certainly, I want good government too.
But the questions are: what is good government? What codes of ethics and conduct should good government be based on? What does government aspire to for the country and its people? What are its long term goals--how does it see Australia in a hundred years? What is it doing to secure a viable and ethical future? How does it plan to improve the world, and so improve its place in it? What inspires government in other words--what's the big picture?
I don't think any of these questions are considered by either party. Three years is as far as they look into the future and it's a blinkered gaze. Meanwhile, they just go on celebrating, foisting the crap that Australia is already somehow "accomplished", in itself and in the world.
Why can't we and our politicians take stock of our country's failings? Count them out, name them, and pledge to take steps to amend them? Why can't world leaders enumerate the evils, injustices and disparities they preside over?
No, there's none of that here or abroad. There's just endless hypocritical self-congratulation, punctuated on national holidays and passed around like a reefer.
There's no vision for the future, no modesty or genuine self-assessment (at the national or even species level) or admission of failings, and ergo no commitment to change.
You just want "good government", maintenance. That's conservatism. Labor's supposed to be progressive!
As individuals, do we ever stop criticising ourselves? Who doesn't shake their head at the things they've said or done occasionally, or resolve to be better, to make improvements? Only the comprehensively self-deceived are unselfcritical, complacent, "conservative"! Honest individuals acknowledge their failings, even despair at them, though the proper thing to do is make changes, face up to yourself and pledge to be better.
But nations! There's none of that. There's just lying smugness.
I don't want "good government", I want reform!

"whoso would be a man must be a non-conformist" (Emerson).

You have to feel sorry for people like Belly.

Still, you have to give full marks to those Labor spin doctors. To be able to keep people like him believing that Labor still has some interest in people like him is no mean feat, with the agenda they have.

Yes they pander to the union bosses, who like high immigration, it helps keep the number of dills paying union does right up there. However, it's that same immigration policy that keeps his union rank & file in poor street. Keeping them voting labor, that is a slight of hand worthy of a master.

They are now the party of academics, [just look at their MPs], & the public service, both protected species under Labor. That they still need the worker vote to get elected I'm sure erks many of them.

I think they are a bit upset with the teachers, who first went Democrat, & now to the Greens. After all, they should be part of the Labor family. Does the fact that they aren't mean that school teachers are smarter than academics, or just that the latter will vote for whoever will put the most butter on their bread.

You only have to hear a bit of the garbage our academics sprout out on our ABC, to know they are bought & payed for. I get a picture of them sitting in a line, like good little puppy dogs, tongues hanging out, waiting for their next bone. Disgusting really.

So good on you Belly mate, you do have my sympathy.

Squeers well put again we share many views unfortunately the majority of voters do not have such dreams.
Hasbeen lets get in on the table, no out to the car park the Aussie way.
Mate I am as capable of thinking for myself as you are.
In my view, true, better, as you are conservative, never once saw anything bad about them, I am Labor.
I also am union, not every union not all in any union.
Even you get it right some times,like kicking a stick in a paddock and uncovering a stone you are partly right about a few ex unionists.
Simon Crean,the ex AMWU bloke, this state election in NSW a union ban on working for the ALP should take place, some day some time, the ALP must be told it cannot take workers for granted, would you propose big business do that to your side? a few who climbed to power in unions then became?
The product of two blow flys on a dead beast.
Pity me?, I glorify in being me, being different than you and two others here inspires me.
Again Labor is in need of renewal, federally too, Gillard, well ahead in the polling, is not the one to introduce real change.
But Abbott surely you know? is an anchor,a rock your boat founders on.
In my lifetime, yours too, modern people more I believe than ever,are too interested in the opinions they want to see than reality.
At a time my party has ruined or failed to deliver so many policy's yours bloke is still on those bench's not in government.
Hasbeen may you, family mates,have the best Christmas of your life.
I hope Santa brings you joy and just maybe some ability to see the world as it is, hope he is not a little colored fella would not want to upset you.

An interesting and informative story in this mornings Sydney Herald.
Worth a look, it has a picture of the twin towers on fire and while I can not remember the exact title it is about just why conspiracy theory's get air.
It touches on how we get opinions and is well written.
Seems Wikileaks is now being used by theorists to try to push yet another theory.
Opinion makers come in all walks of life.

911 has few unknown secrets

so many questions..that the govt must know of

but seeks to still try to not memtion
[dont mention the war?]

here are the opinion makers ..at their worst

naming names
who done what
and still govt chases other destractions

http://groups.google.com/group/total_truth_sciences/browse_thread/thread/3084be49b35a1426?pli=1

from 911 facts file

So in the course of disordered events-who benefited?

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oG7m6BsgpNYWYA9rJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZjI4d... Rockefeller Reveals 9/11 FRAUD to Aaron Russo Image removed by sender.

Nicholas Rockefeller — told film-maker Aaron Russo of coming catastrophic event eleven months before 9-11

<
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oG7kcwtQpNbxwAxu5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEybWtqM
...> Dick Cheney ex-director of CFR talks to David Rockefeller Image removed by sender.

<
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oG7nN3qApN5hkAx.NXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZjI4d
...> Who Did It? - Conspirators

<
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oG7mn.uApN.08Bfm1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEybWtqM...
> Who Did It? - Home

how conspiricy..gets air..[quoting belly]

thats like when you have tom burns..going to be an easy winner
then instead get the goss/gloss

or like how hayden sargent...is going to be a shoe in..
and get bob hawke..and cheating keating

how conspiricy...'gets air'...is selling off all ya electic-infastructure..for 5 billion..with a 2 billion subsidy back to the buyer..as a coal subsidy

then close shop for 4 months
to stop others asking questions

belly..i love ya mate...you seem a good bloke..
but mate you are being tricked..BIG time..[dig?]

we all are

911...mate that was one of them key moments
dick cheeney..just the night before advised 2 TRILLION..was missing from the pentagram buddyget..[bludget..get it]

that day in september..
the stock market..was going to go bust

mate ya cant see past the party
if the current going on in nsw..dont wake you up
nothing can

i cant blame you for not realising the hayden/burns thing
the nats..simply took over labour..[peter beatup for gods sake..did the closing arguement at the joe trial..[you know where the jury fornman was a young nat leader]

good people do bad things all the time
it sems so reasonable..when ya all sitting arround the table

add in the media runs its own adgenda
and the public service too

mate there is no chance
for the mug workers paying as they earn...[lol]..
but paying...*for it all.....mate what can we do...sfa

lie down and take it like a man?

join the polution?

decide its inevitable..and grab your share of the cash...and fringe benifits?..make a share deal on insider knowledge...or do as rudds missis..get in on the sceme...and open an agency..to reap off the cream from the workers...under work choice contracts?

dosnt nsw labours current doings..wake anyone up?

there can be no smoke..without a fire..[somewhere]

OUG I hope you are going to have a great Christmas.
I see opinion makers in us all, no need for conspiracy's, in fact some who like my ABC radio people may not know just what they did.
Sitting in front of a mike, telling people your thoughts, or slanting your questions your way, can be very dangerous.
I wanted to highlight my view opinion makers, and opinions, are not always right.
I think no better thread EVER appeared in OLO to prove my point than the latest here from Shadow Minister, about Labor back flips.
I have never seen so many totally different views on one subject in such few posts in one thread.

merry xmass to you too my brother
shadows miner has passion for his party too

[just as you do too..
and i love those who can raise passion..
not only in them selves..but in others..i used to have passion]

im thinking of how to best raise truth
regardless of where the truth leads

thats the troubnle..truth is relitive
some need to believe their party alone dont stink

for shadows..his party is pure as snow
and the thinking..of the same..applies to your's

for me they are both rotten to the core
but thats just my experience..[not opinion]
i been lied to..by party machinemen..of both
[as well as the greens/hemp party]

the party is the problem
id trust both you and mr shadow..[as people]..not as party members

if you both could only stand..on your own laurrels

im getting frustrated..by how you both can see
the vile..of the other party..but not the vile of.."our"..own

when you put forward danger...[lol]

my first thought was jfk
[with the back of his head blown off]

http://www.google.com/search?client=gmail&rls=gm&q=jfk%20autopsy%20photo

why even put in such a word?
opinion makers
thread makers
threat makers

its all just doing the party line
any wonder we need a party whip
or a sargt at arms..or the mace on the table..in parlement

nsw selling off the power
then going on holiday till election time

mate that stinks...

revealing how much
they all*..are concealing

OUG I want in fact need, you to understand.
You have never been more wrong.
In comparing me with another on my party and politics.
just in this thread but in posts every day, I take aim at my party's wrongs, read after march 2011.
That thread is mine, aimed at my party the dirt and filth of my party in NSW.
OUG in the end, a judgment has to be made, balancing every thing one party will best suit each of us, not be every thing we want.
For me it will never be conservatives, never the greens not ever.
It is the ALP that meets my needs.
Find my post history, read it, it does not hide my wish for a better ALP.
Find Shadow Ministers, show me balance show me concerns for the actions of his party.,
OUG while some propose new party's new ways knew ideas it has not worked in this country.
I believe it never will.
The Democrats said they would keep the ^%^^ honest, but sold their honor to them instead.
Greens are a party of protest, and not Representative of what they claim to be.
Small party's new party's or old exist like a moth over a candle but end up being a path for second votes.
The wrongs of this world, all party's,must be fixed by us and mainstream party's.
I look for comments on politics to be honest open inquiring and balanced.
Please do not charge me with blindness to my party's faults I have never been guilty of that
Australian politics is at a low tide mark my team blinded by 24 hours news cycle and promises not kept, maybe never intended to be kept.
Conservatives unable to see they prosper on my party's faults not their own good policy's.
Greens [the parking lot of the protesting or uniformed voters] who if given freedom to implement the policy's they own would greatly hurt this country.
We can do better.
Regards

what i tried to post got lost

i explained why i hate polititions...thats gone

explained ..how tom burns promised party policy to remove the drug laws..till he got removed by party goss gloss

explained how..drug law raises 65 million in revenue
off..35,000 criminalisations each year[qld alone]

explained how 65 percent of polititions..are or were lawyers
explained how cops made theats to get guilty pleas
threatended me with a gun..over a damm plant

but till it hapens to you
well..thats only party politicks

we wont agree...but polititions are sssscum
especially when doing the party line

here is what party politics leads to

Here is the full program..previously mentioned
without commercials of Jesse Ventura's show,..'Conspiracy Theory' about the attack on the Pentagon..[911]..which originally aired on December 17, 2010.

A comprehensive transcript of all 43+ minutes of this
action-packed episode appears beneath the video screen,
at the link below:

http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/page/831.html

anyone doing the research knows politics is a filthy game
party politics is a pox on the peoples houses...most of them are slowly realising it

Life OUG is no different.
My brother, his family after lunch sat and watched the best of this years football.
We reminded each other how corrupt it has become from the day gambling on it first started.
Officials have to be involved in the rorts, money talks.
We got on to the subject of NSW politics, how illegal casinos,every one knew how to find them, got protection from two NSW leaders, one from each party.
And a very senior police man protected an informer who twice commited murder.
Your fixation on party politics ignores the mayhem of 30 different voices taking different opinions and paths crime and corruption is always wrong and always with us.

my vision
government...forms arround school districts
whatever in .."IN'..the scghool distict..is adminestered..PROTECTED..by the school/or rather the government..that forms up under the school

NO COUNCILS
no states
just school districts
that vote for the govener/general
and the femail..equivelent[for womans business]

we run the district...via the mens womans meetings..[both hels..at the same time]

ie both begin/end..at the same time
with how their half of the revenue is spent

no borrowing
no selling sewar systems..then renting them back

if its IN the school district..you need to go to the school..to do ANYTHING

funded by 10 percent...gst/fuel taxes...
half price insurance...and no carbon tax

p-olice/fires..emegency services..etc...[licence issue passports..pension..or just a meal and a bed[or a docter

go to school
anyschool
and they govern..FOR THE PEOPLE

buying in bulk
getting discountt deals on al services..
running in the school distric

lok after sewrage..garbage..busses/taxie..shops building..[isures everything

actually puts new tyres..if bald

no rego..thatas your fine..pay the rego..[thats it]..no points etc

oh and the old people go there too
kids govt old people
all in one place
runing things

acxcountable locally
you could be replaced at ANY wekly
mens womens circle
[at school]..where the incoming is acorded to greatest need

smaller ammou8nts paid first
till each circle has spent..its share

then the forman...
decides its best use/price..
all fully accountable[but shared by the circle that orded it]