An election will be held in NSW in March.
Voters can stay home, massive promises from my team, the ALP fear and loathing too.
Yet we are doomed.
A new leader, even if it was one of our greats, Wrann who gave this state darling harbor, under an avalanche of insults and fear.
Carr who gave us more conservation than the greens dream of, national parks future folk will honor him for.
Defeat is still the only outcome.
This election is going to be the worst ALP out come in my lifetime, maybe ever.
Yet it is to be the birth day of a better ALP.

NSW ALP won the last election against all odds.
In truth the opposition lost it Labor did not win.
Questions need to be asked, how did Morris Emma ever win the leadership?
It seemed in the bag for Scully.
In any event the Italian stallion proved to be a rocking horse never quite left the gates.
Factions did strange things, putting people from other factions in place ,giving them power none had ever had, but not letting them use it.
So the rot set in.
Right now I would not give you a cent for factions, even mine.
This is disaster, it truly is worse than that, it is insulting to think last minute pork barreling will change ALP voters back to the ALP.
That pig should have been fattened a year ago.
So why am I not unhappy.
We may see an end to burnt out fools getting a seat, and license to print money.
We may see the intervention of HQ in to branch choices be a little more in favor of rank and file.
Every party faces these bad times my beloved ALP will come back, it always has been the party of change in NSW and it needs these hard times, it slumbers and ignores its own voters and its stated aim to govern well.

<< Carr who gave us more conservation than the greens dream of… >>

Yes Belly. And how long was he in power?

Ten years.

What was that thing that he was always on about?

Oh yes, population growth in Sydney.

He was a unique politician in that he was an arch advocate of much lower immigration and population growth in NSW and Australia, and especially in Sydney.

He stood up to the manic pro-growth merchants in the big business sector, the economics sector and the predominating political support within his own party for these sectors…. and he was PM for a very long time, which can only mean that this message strongly resonated with the voters of Sydney and NSW.

Since leaving office, Bob Carr has been very vocal about the need to reduce population growth and embrace a paradigm of sustainability in Australia.

Maybe there is a BIG message there for NSW Labor.

I agree with you that they are history at the next election, if they don’t do something radical.

And the radical thing to do is ……to follow Bob Carr’s lead, and advocate a regime of genuine sustainability in Australia, with a much lower immigration intake (progressively lowered to net zero over the next few years), so that Sydney doesn’t continue to suffer never-ending urban sprawl, increasing pressure on all manner of infrastructure and services, etc, etc, and can actually have some hope of arresting the decline in the average quality of life for its ~4.5 million residents.

If NSW Labor could just see fit to do this, they could harness enormous support in time to rescue themselves at the March 2011 election. Of course, they’d have to work hard at convincing the people that they were genuine. But it could be done.

I’m sure Bob Carr and Victorian Labor MP Kelvin Thomson would only be too willing to help them, along with a bunch of other sustainability advocates.

Bugger bum poo… that should have been:

< and he was PREMIER for a very long time >

rrrgh!

NSW Labor should have a long and deep meditation over these comments by Kelvin Thomson, Federal Labor member for Wills, as to why the Brumby Labor Government lost the recent election in Victoria:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/brumby-too-cosy-with-business-labor-mp-20101214-18wsz.html

< the ''heart of the problem'' was that Labor had sided with business in backing excessive population growth.>

Ludwig glad you share my view of Carr.
Have you seen Darling Harbor? while I took nifty Nevil Wrann on, still do, he was the lone person who gave us that wonderful area.
Sorry if Labor Got its best to lead and run in every seat they are gone.
A blind man on a galloping horse reading my comments as he past could see that both saddens me and fills me with hope,that Labor can learn from its sellout of its people and self.
NSW is in for drama voters would elect Kermit the frog and the cookie monster , may not even know the Liberal policy's,yet some will condemn me, for saying it as it is.
My NSW power bill,this month was the lowest use in two years 10% down on this period last year.
30% up in price.
And no extra use 200% of what it was in 2002.
Thanks to?

Belly, the ALP are doomed because of the premiers hairstylist.

I know she rides a bike, but that is worse than hat-hair.

I suspect the ETU will be backing candidates other than ALP for sure, now the weasel has sold off the power system.

ICAC needs to keep a close eye on which of the ALP drones gather up directorships and jobs with the new owners of NSW power.

I thought you might have started a thread about the sell-off.

The Kelvin THompson comments are a touch of 'kettle calling the pot' aren't they?

Was Rudd 'in touch'?

Is Gillard 'in touch'?

Is Abbott 'in touch'?

Hardly, but then I'm not sure 'ordinary Australians' are 'in touch' with politics either, they just react to media prompting.

With what seats labor retain at the election they should have plenty of fresh faces with which to rebuild. I don't think it will take long for NSW to tire of the coalition. They are struggling to keep it together now, even with a sure election win around the corner. Poor NSW they really can not get a decent government together can they.

Belly:

I don't know that much about NSW politics as I live in Victoria. However, politicians need to talk and listen to real people and not be flanked by minders. Voters can only make an assessment on what they get at face value. Also a party needs to present a united, disciplined, front. Bitter power struggles need to be put on the back burner. Anyway, whatever happens in NSW - hopefully politicians just may learn something from the results - and as you pointed out, things may improve in the long term for NSW.

TBC you may find a thread I started called power with out glory.
I took to the rabble and that was after the state conference.
Now I will be a bit controversial, but honesty is best isn't it?
I wore the yellow protest shirt at that conference, swore as much as a good bloke my mate, from the CFMEU.
Got heaps for it but read that thread.
Last conference ever for me last year, my branch leader walked out the day before voting.
I and a newby stayed and arranged our votes to be cast.
He would not know a thing about the party its rules even its intentions, but tried to control my thoughts.
As you can see here, what ever else I am, ever will be,I am union ALP and prepared to fight both for fairness to and for those both exist for.
After March my union will remain a building block to start rebuilding the ALP.
My future is from within my party branch as a member not looking to milk the movements cow.

Fine sentiments Belly.

I admire your tenacity.

Good luck with it.

This Morning the Sydney daily telegraph [who would believe it was once the Labor Daily?] is at it again.
My brothers and sisters from center to left know it has under its last two family owners been a rag.
A conservative sheet not interested in other than hurting the ALP.
Today it runs an anti ALP story it never had to.
Left behind by the reality of the power sell out believe me, most ALP voters are way out in front of the Tele in condemning this government.
The well oiled machine,the very one that has seen NSW government workers and voters betrayed sold out, is electioneering.
A waste, a bloke who would have positioned us much better if he was leading Dela Bosca, may yet again be sent out to find out why the ALP train wreck caught fire after its head on before rolling of the bridge.
Here is the answer, that bridge, 2 years ago the ALP should have had a BAR BE Q up there ,and thrown the rubbish over before leaving.
Robo, if you do not do better than this next time, well you will, our lady in waiting for the chopping block has not impressed me.

About one hour in to the vote counting it will be clear NSW will have a conservative government.
I promise you the ALP has started its election campaign, and doing it VERY WELL.
There however will be no Micheal Clark no last minute savior, we are gone.
Interest may be who controls the upper house?
Do states truly need them.
Queensland has got on without them and some true nuts find their way in to Parliament via that back door.
Just a few months ago I would have said the greens, maybe it is still so.
I think maybe not, my thoughts are these Bob Brown openly said he did not want a preference deal, I then made sure that FOREVER mine did not as far as possible go to his team.
Sentiment in Labor circles is growing, one day it will be a very big wave hitting the beach, greens are no Friend .
If they control the upper house it will be mayhem.
But the ALP vote will be its worst ever so small conservatives may need more chairs in the house this election is going to be interesting.
Who will be Capitan in the Labor row boat? Robo or Dela Bosca? if both hold seats some very big swings are on.

Belly, you know the ALP NSW personalities far better than me, but I'd suggest you might be better off with a clean sweep.

Out with the old, tired, corrupt, and in with the new lot, not tired, but just as corruptible no doubt. At least you will have the illusion of honesty there.

But I like this line of yours:

"Queensland has got on without them and some true nuts find their way in to Parliament via that back door."

Yes, indeed.

The ALP did away with the upper house years ago, and, to be honest, Qld is no worse off without it than any other state. At least we save on the wages of a total waste of space.

So, my advice is to free every state of their upper house as soon as possible, rather than re-instate ours here.

But, a big but, there might be a better way, for politics but maybe not 'parties'.

We could move to multi-member electorates, based on the Tassie model, but still no upper house.

Voters would at least have someone to vote for, and the current safe seat syndrome would be harder to keep going, but not vanish I'd imagine.

TBC we have real air wasters in that house here and yes do away with it and them.
I do know NSW politics,and yes see a rather brave and hard working team trying to save a lifeboat or two in the election.
Unfortunately some of our biggest duds are in our safest seats.
The public will be the only ones who can do that.
No joy here none,we are in for it big time.
See my party my life time hope and dream party, is not running this election, not for office at least.
It is in hiding,ashamed of its sell out.
Its ministers for parks, Forrest's, RTA and more have kicked the workers in the guts.
Have let NSW railways become a funder for criminal contracts often run by its staff, like those other government things I spoke of a Christmas carton of beer to the right person can buy a contract.
Put permanent workers out of work and casuals in to under paying unsafe jobs that thieve tax payers money.
My ALP in NSW will thrive AFTER its fall.
But fall it will.
Renewal is going to make the election after interesting,massive victory, massive, may let the incoming government get too complacent, or it may give them the footing for a decade in government.
Labor needs to rebuild and remember only the best should serve.
Not best mate, not best burnt our former union official, not another Lawyer , but Joe average , one who thinks party and voters first, not self.

Belly, you have-it-in-one here, "Unfortunately some of our biggest duds are in our safest seats".

But in fairness to the NSW ALP they are not alone in this corruption of the system.

I think all parties have duds in safe seats, which is not the same as saying that safe seats produce duds, but it certainly is a factor.

I lived in a safe ALP seat, the member was a dud, and true to form, was a minister in the Hawke era.

Now I live in a safe Coalition seat and true to form, the member was a minister in Howard's government.

Safe seats assist cabinet stability, no doubt, but hell, they also assist laziness, complacency and and easy life for the incumbent.

We need to create a system that does not encourage safe seats.

A hard-to-imagine task, unfortunately.

Oh, the state seats here are all 'safe' too, and the same style of duds operate across the parties that hold them.

'Sinecure', 'rotten borough',anti-democratic are all phrases that spring to mind.

If the NSW ALP could deal-out your upper house, as the Qld ALP did, that would be a start, but they wouldn't even dream of doing that these days.

We are all lumbered with mediocre politicians I'm afraid, a reflection of the wider community no doubt.

That TBC is true but revolutions come only rarely.
The disaster about to crush the once power House Of the ALP in NSW.
Is also the tool that forces change.
And it will be for the better NSW you could once say, has an ALP government far more than conservative.
That saw dead heads, egos, on legs and a few idiots forgetting the ALP is not the property of its power brokers.
One day after the defeat I will play my roll in rebuilding.
I think I do every time I post in such threads.
Those who got in to the house on unions backs, and forgot us instantly are in my spotlight.
Those total twits who say stop it there is an election coming what happens in the party stays in the party, do far more harm than the conservatives.
Such gutlessness is cowardice at its worst.

Go for it Belly, and good luck.

I don't fancy your chances, but that does not mean 'don't try'.

I think the ALP 'reform' needs to start with unions leaving the fold, establishing what their members want, and then, if it is deemed worth the members while, endorsing those ALP candidates that reflect the union's views.

Unions may find they get more members too, if it is known that membership fees do not automatically go to the ALP.

In fact, if unions intend to donate monies to political parties, members should be allowed to nominate where their share is to go.

That way unions will be funding a range of political parties, and buy influence in more than the ALP.

It would be hard for Abbott and Co to keep pushing for the ability of employers to sack staff unfairly if the Liberals have a couple of millon$$$ from a union wouldn't it?

And there are plenty of Liberal-National unionists around.

Unpalatable from an 1890 perspective, but a new reality today I fear.

TBC hold on to some thing, tightly,
I agree with every word.
A UNION OFFICIAL caring for his members more than lies should be talking to the in coming government.
In truth the out going one is deaf dumb and blind to its workers needs.
This election tests your mob too.
ALP will sit on its lowest ever vote in history, modern that is.
Greens should make its hight water mark here.
If not you need to be concerned, but I think you will be pleased.
Once Labor was the product of the union Movement and its best bet.
In truth no party can give the unions every thing but not one in my life time has turned on us as badly as this state after Dela Bosca left.
Any honest and fair person, from any political party, would cringe to see Forrest's parks and RTA workers bound hand and foot by inflexible management who then blame its victims for lack of results, sponsored by NSW alp MINISTERS WHO SHOULD ONLY BE IN THE HOUSE MOB BUCKET OR BROOM IN HAND.

Comrade, we can see the woods AND the trees, working together.

Go easy on the Greens, I think you will find you do have ideas in common with them, and they have some in common with the National Party too, as do the old style ALP and early unionists.

The common thread, not seen in recent years, is the old notion of agrarian-socialism.

Much maligned, but it's what allowed agriculture and country areas to keep going.

It's what established many things here in Qld, during the long reign of the ALP.

It's one of the forces behind Red Ted, before he took off and became a squillionaire with Packer (pretty sure it was Packer anyway).

The modern ALP, as you know, is merely a toned down version of the Tory party and a 'mates' clearing house.

Tell me, have you ever read the old English working class novel, 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists' by Robert Tressell?

If not, I think you'd enjoy it.

First published 1914, and never out of print since.

Have a look on Oz Amazon: http://www.booktopia.com.au/ragged-trousered-philanthropist-the/prod9780141187693.html

TBC I will find and read it, my self education came after school reading is still an obsession.
Remember please ,I was a young Communist, then Socialist.
Still thought of myself as Socialist in 1975.
But politics is about numbers and that we must never ignore.
Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, all bought me to understand my position is,, in the heart of your worst nigh mare, my comfortable home center unity, NSW right.
I came from hungry ground, not pulling your leg bloke it was hard, dad 5ft 4 inches tall , worked himself to death at age 54 16 kids eight of us lived to grow up, hungry.
Cow turnips some days pumpkin and potatoes others and the skins for breakfast.
Yet the lefty family got its education from both mum and dad ,we had the ALP and 23 years of failure.
Our only other education from them was get a job work hard join Union save your money so you will never be hungry again.
You know, I not long ago handed out greens HTV in 2007 in the other hand to Kevin's.
Bob Brown lost me weeks after he entered Parliament but my party's wish came first Brown changed that forever
continued

It is true many former ALP voters are now greens.
Mourning for an ALP that once was.
But also was in opposition for 23 years.
Success came only after the big fella and the Hawk and Keiting bought about change.
Woke up one morning and looked around,that house on the hill? its once owners son had built a two story home, he no longer knew what kero was was as a middle income blue collar worker had different dreams.
Labor had to change to rule, even then as the only true party of change it had to fight some who would rather be the best opposition than have a chance at governing.
I know greens have some policy's I agree with, but I know my party must not pander to them they are no Friend of mine.
After march the implosion will force Labor to be better, not in my lifetime will we get this bad again.
I see only promise for the future, of interest in this mornings press Obed has said he will go, if he can appoint his successor.
GEE any one out there? get the goose out, please.

The book will be easy to understand, with your family background.

As you read it, just remember that it was written well before the Russian Revolution.

It suffers from being written in the colloquial style, but it's not hard to understand.

It wouldn't be hard to imagine the character being in the shearing strike, and part of the formation of the ALP. An AWU member, no less.

You'll probably find a copy in your local library.

Politics is about numbers, but that singular focus has also brought the NSW ALP (and Gillard) undone, has it not?

Politics is also about ideas, and alliances.

There is room enough to have a loose alliance between the ALP, Greens and intelligent independents who have ideas held above gold passes.

No one is asking you to convert to being a Green, and no one would expect a Green to become an ALP member either, but there is an objective to reach, preferably together, while we can share similar, albeit not the same, ideas.

Let me know what you think of the book, it should be required reading in the NSW ALP (and Gillard should have read it if she wanted to pretend to be a left wing politician).

It will be a while things get hectic around here soon.
But TBC I will read it feel I know what its about all ready, have read 100,s of books like what I think it is.
Times change those warriors who gave birth to unions did much for us.
Todays workers often would not measure up, unless they too had the near slave like life those first unionists had.
Watched lock out ten times would watch it now if I had a copy one tin of camp pie for a family's Christmas, we thought camp pie was gold.
Once had rich stew and dumplings in golden syrup for Christmas over a ton on the old scale,we loved it and it was one of our best.
Greens will be at the peak after March, lets see what you do with it in the upper house.

The ALP should have been out of government in NSW two terms ago. The reason they were returned is because of the abysmal performance of O'Farrell and his crew.

Other than "Cut Payroll Tax", they've proposed stuff-all as an alternative government and spend all their time telling us what they're NOT going to do rather than put up anything new.

They tried to stop the Electricity sale last time only becasue they wanted the money for themselves to fund their own pork-barrelling, not because of some idealogical argument.

It looks like they'll walk it in but not on their own merits.

Unless BOTH sides lift their game, NSW is in for a pretty bad time.

I think wobbles the thread has run its race, mostly agree, well do with your thoughts.
But Barry needs to do nothing promise nothing and say nothing.
Truth is if conservatives, not joking, sent their team on holidays over seas for full campaign, spent two dollars twenty cents on the whole campagn.
And if their front line promoters the Sydney telegraph is closed down during the election, Labor will be hurled out of ofice.
WHY no lover of ALP no unioist no consumer of electricity, needs to ask.
Kick backs from developers, gee dare not list the crimes against those who voted ALP.
Watch however rampart conservatives try to flogg me with their victory and remember few contributed to this thread ,,playing safe?

Belly,

If the Libs are as hopeless in Government as they were in Opposition then we don't have much to look forward to.

It's fine for them to complain about everything from Road Tolls to Speed Cameras but nowhere have I heard that they would do anything different from the ALP.

Swapping one bunch of incompetents for another may be a solution but I think the people of NSW deserve better than the choices they have been given.

The voters of Newcastle and Lake Macquarie dabbled with Independents years ago and that proved to be a disaster.

Wobbles all true, and I worked very hard in the area you name last election.
HTV for every second the booth was open, scutineering then a 2 hour drive home.
We won.
Against all odds kept Newcastle in ALP hands.
The only time I ever saw her again was the day she supported AGAINST THE CONFERENCES VOTE the sale of the power.
It is no longer a Liberals vs Labor thing.
Understand Friend, liberals have won, no need to vote its done.
And find room to understand we are better for it, the party long ago,considered us just the stones they walk on .
The door knocking HTV people once used and re boxed till next time.
In March they may just understand we could have done a better job than some self serving grubs who leave rich and fat as any conservative ever was.
In fact anything conservatives do will look good in the short term.
I do not share their views but know Labor needs the gutting skinning and hanging out to dry it is going to get.
PS staying home that day,my leg will be playing up, party first.

This mornings Sydney Tele again takes the cat o nine tails to Labor in NSW.
This time I think they wasted the effort.
If NSW ALP this morning promised to cut power bis by 25% stop all city tolls and kiss every kid in town twice the party would still be thrashed.
Yesterday I was reminded in a documentary of NSW under two leaders two different types of government.
Bob Askin,and Nevil Wrann,
Crime lords and very dishonest criminal police ruled the state, openly rewarding politicians for blindness.
I truly do not know if todays party is any better, it may not be as bent but such miss management and neglect is a crime.

Belly, the process of 'government' is actually no different to 'organised crime'.

NSW is not the only corrupt state/territory.

Victoria's police force seems to organise crime and killing down there.

Qld, well what can I say?

The Fitzgerald Enquiry simply told us all what most knew and all the media outlets elected to ignore.

This year Fitzgerald commented that Qld was back to its old tricks.

Who is in power?

Not the Nationals, but Bligh and the ALP.

WA is a closed shop for cronies, under either party.

NT, well, that is a 'government' free zone where 'anything goes', particularly when the whole government sits in the Vic' pub all day.

Tassie? Umm, no sign of 'government' to be found.

SA? Had a government once but not been seen for years.

ACT? Over governed but probably on a par with a small town council as far as competence goes.

There is, overall, a lack of imagination at the political level throughout the nation.

But again, as with my own post, there is such cynicism within the community that maybe there is a responsibility to be taken up by ordinary 'punters' to demand more?

Reform must start within each political party, at the same time as 'overall' reform is embraced to prohibit 'donations', and 'mates jobs'.

But is the world of 'business' any less corrupt?

Just bought the George Megalogenis Quarterly Essay about the failure of 'ideas'.

Not earth shattering but it puts together a credible essay worth reading.

Yes every word true, some on all sides only enter Parliament to formalize an already criminal lifestyle and intent.
And no one is any different no firm no organization is free of it.
Christmas sees filth, single person firms who never pay the right wages, giving the highest priced drinks, cartons of them, to its customers and even union people low enough to take it.
Construction, so intent on blaming unions, has far worse crimes rewarded with great masses of cash and kind, some get new homes for turning their heads.
But I can not compare the criminal actions of those two governments with the rude crude self interest of some in my party right now.
Even worse is the betrayal of every past member or builder of the ALP by the factions who put useless beggars in power.
I expect factions to have new leaders inside and outside of my party by mid next year.
Party first.
That,, sad as it seems is true for only a few,some who condemn me for my passion never ever think my party first, they blindly look only to self interest and forget the long proud history of workers and the ALP

lets add to this conversation..the latest
sell off electic generation for 5 billion

give an assurance of a 2 billion subsidy..for cheaper coal...
for the buyers..leaving a nett price of 3 billion

then shut-down govt*..till the election
[you know your going to loose big time]

to stop people from asking questions...under parlimentry protection
[as if criminality could be protected under any right of govt...lol]

AND THIS IS..*THE START OF NEW LABOUR...lol

yes i know
you got no idea of what i speak

ignorance is no excuse..
cant you see the same/same

in qld we sacked tom burns..got goss gloss
sacked bill hayden..got bob hauke/and cheating keating
[now running some land grab on some islands near indonesia]

yes a new party...lol
doing the same things...again and again...all for a short term gain

and eternal damm nation

what iof all the adverse debt..tax payers are bound to
that dont even get into the media

Interesting day.
The nice American lady fronting the NSW ALP Government shut Parliament down two months early.
She or those controlling her strings,did not want the opposition to? talk about the power sell off.
And the belief it was at give away prices, and more, yes even than QLD price rises are a result.
The house on the hill, so well known in Labor mythology, is indeed heading back to kero lamps, maybe wood fires to cook on, and coppers for baths.
Bought to us by my dysfunctional lost,and idle NSW ALP,.
What next,50% tax on fire wood.

I do think Kristina Keneally is the worse Premier of NSW since Tom Lewis in 1975. Then if you were nothing more than the political love child of Joe Tripodi and Eddie Obeid you would have to be disgusting too. The good news is The Greens are working very hard to win the seat of Marrickville with Fiona Byrne and Balmain with Jamie Parker, two outstanding candidates. To show I have no political bias good luck to Bruce Notley-Smith in Coogee and Michael Daley in Maroubra hope they both do well. As for Keneally we should all hope she gets the flick in Heffron in favour of The Greens Mehreen Faruqi.

Paul 1405 just saw your post.
I think as an ALP activist every leader from the day Carr left would have been worse than Lewis.
This one was never other than a puppet to the grubs you mention.
I would have 12 months ago, been in your camp, helping the greens.
But not now, Bob Brown lost me this time.
For me, and your side this is an election that is lost but interesting.
Labor has so betrayed its followers it has driven many to your mob.
And others like me are intent on not letting our preferences go green.
The intense interest for me is how well will they go?
Of the possible out comes this is sure Labor is thrashed.
Already.
And that is the best out come for the party, lets start rebuilding.
I do not see, may be wrong, greens making much ground, more yes than now,the best ever in this state but.
Wandering about work sites I heard public employees clearly tell me enough!
Like every election I am just as interested as Antony Green, this time in the ranks of the also rans.

Hi Belly, I resigned from the Labor Party years ago and joined The Greens. Labors has had 20 years to get back to its 'grass roots' but unfortunately it now sits in no mans land grasping at right wing populist policies to which the conservatives would be proud of. Labor talk of rebuilding and a new direction is just that, talk, the reality is like the Liberal Party, Labor is firmly in the pocket of big business and its vested interests and there is no escape.
As for the upcoming NSW election there are no safe Labor seats. In Heffron Labor is showing its usual contempt for voters, safe Labor seat, Keneally don't have to do nothing to get re-elected, so they think. We have plenty of ammunition to throw at the Premier, gas drilling in St Peters, power sell off, 3A legislation, the list goes on. Then there is the unthinkable, a preference deal with the Liberals, shock horror, The Greens run a close second to Keneally and with preferences goodbye Ms Keneally.

Paul I remain with Labor but this is far from my first thread expressing my contempt for this awful mob.
I know odds are your mob will increase its vote, a betting man I think it will be your high water mark.
Test me, I think some have concerns with greens this time.
But with out doubt it is Labors worst result.
Over come with confidence the NSW center unity can pull rabbit out and maybe save 50% of its seats I know that to be impossible.
Room exists to debate you on why I will not preference greens, yet until the last federal election I handed out their HTV.
Back to my mob, Kevin Rudd says it all, he is not the only controlling lieing begger in my party,and my faction.
It MUST BE UNDERSTOOD workers doubt the ALP in NSW is even aware who started the party.
We can go on and on but Nifty Nev and run over the ^%$ Bob Askin BENT POLLY'S are not on their own in this Parliament.
Now I believe strongly and forever both majors are close, but because no one will ever govern this country unless mainstream policy's are one they run with.
After Brown it may Be possible to see more interaction between our party's but not before.
After March new factional leadership new directions more say for rank and file in candidates and start of a long up hill battle to rebuild my party,
Federally?
Only thing we have going for us under this leader is the opposition.

Sunday morning and this mornings polling has a bit to say that should be in this thread.
NSW ALP is in the trouble I have described in th last 3 years and more.
80% of voters say the will not vote Labor.
March, just weeks away,an opposition that has not yet told us what it is, has won and election.
I CAN NOT vote for my party.
I have seen public servants willfully privatize public utility's,and not talking about power, tie the hands of its workforce, then say they are not competitive.
Ruled by the yes minister gobble Dee gook , refuse to consider a better way.
We did not elect a government last time we made a train wreck.
2 predictions
1 greens votes will be its highest ever past present and future.
2 within a day of this landslide,one I look forward to, yes it alone can reform my party,some one will taunt me here about ALP NSW loss, one I have spoken of as needed for those three years.

Belly,
I am sorry to see a once great political party, The Australian Labor Party, reduced to what it has become today. The 'true believers' of the past must be turning in their graves seeing what the 'modern day' Party has become!
A little more bad news the ALP can't rely on Green preferences in the upcoming election. With their vote down to say 30%-35% in safe seats even those seats could be lost. Unlike the major parties the Greens determine their preferences, if any, at the grass roots level of the party.
Paul.

Yes Paul, me too, but it will change.
Now remember no defense nothing to say in favor of NSW Labor.
Federally the mess that was Rudd, his controlled decay, inability to get it done has done great damage.
But in every decline a bottom comes,and it is true you can not begin to climb out without hitting that.
Look with me at this truth, your party, Greens is in part a refugee camp from Labor.
NSW will be its best, never to be repeated result.
The young and the old will want seats on your boat.
But majority's, or even near one,will not ever want those policy's.
Liberal and Labor did not wander away from the masses, they followed them.
Middle Australia is not asking for more Socialism, more welfare, it wants its self interests first.
POSITIVE outcomes, this year, Labors defeat in NSW will return the party to its branches, growth can come improvement is the only movement possible, it can not get worse.
Federally
Well not easy, few want to admit the gloss is coming of Julia, yes she is far in front of Abbott, but a village idiot could do that.
Watch Bill Shorten, he is the man who can be what we thought Rudd was, and he will rise rapidly.
I do not see a greens government ever.
But Labors task is to in form, reform, educate its lost members that elections are won by majority's not the few.
Winning back NSW , a state LABOR OWNED is going to be helped only by our best staying and the rest? gone by now or soon will be.
May I say to the young, our future leaders you can do much more in government and you have a roll to play in rebuilding the ALP, the left of center's only chance to govern.

Unfortunately Belly I see the Labor Party as a party full of false prophets. Where is your Messiah going to come from? Is this Bill Shorten the Messiah, I don't think so. There is no Messiah within the AlP, all the party machine can throw up is weak front people like your Gillard's and Keneally's, leaders with no vision, people who are out of touch with the real Australia. Where are your Ben Chifley's and Jack Lang's.
I say now is the beginning of the end for the ALP, it is fast losing its relavence on the Australian political landscape. Labor people in NSW think they are in for a very badly blooded nose come election day, but they think they will live to fight again. Wrong, March 26th 2011 will see the death of the ALP in NSW. Jump ship now before its to late, join The Greens!

Paul 1405 you bring an interesting issue to the front.
Many, within my party/union movement dislike with an intensity my views.
I was threatened,yes true, on saying Rudd would take the leadership and win an election.
Then told I was wrong on saying he was bogged in deep mud he would not get out of.
I however remember the Belly that lived in 1975, the radical ready for war on the streets.
I look back and under stand,we my party,bought about in part its down fall.
You must find out about Shorten, he is no fake, he is the future of Labor.
My party needs the NSW fiasco it needs the coalition with your team,and it needs the trouble that will bring us.
It without change,will get and need time on the opposition benches.
But it is still the party that brings change.
It has to rid itself of wrong union influences,wrong faction leadership and make branches democratic.
But it need look no further than Shorten for leadership and in time, assisted by a government that will not need to tell us its intentions, NSW center unity will rebuild the ALP.
Remember this country has no intention or will to put a true left party even close to in power

Please understand, it is my considered view not a bias that tells me Greens are not the answer.
I constantly get in to trouble with other on our side of the fence for it, but believe it strongly.
Greens while having some good points are more a danger to left politics than conservatives.
My view is in time, maybe very soon, greens actions,radical ones will keep Labor out of government and conservatives in.
Divide and conquer is very much a truism.
I just can not live with policy's that tell us to cut off our fingers and toes stop mining coal.
and so very much more.

"I just can not live with policy's that tell us to cut off our fingers and toes stop mining coal.
and so very much more."
Belly don't be mislead by Big Mining that The Greens are out to destroy the Australian way of life, on the contrary we want to improve the quality of life for the vast majority of people. The issue of coal mining is not a simplistic one,Big Mining would like you to believe that if you vote The Greens into power today they will shut all the coal mines tomorrow, that is untrue we are not that simplistic. Below is the link to The Greens climate change / energy policy 51 points far more complex than Big Mining and others would have you believe. I don't agree will all policy 100% no one can but overall I agree with most of our policies because they have been extencivly debated and are well thought out.

http://greens.org.au/policies/climate-change-and-energy/climate-change-and-energy

Paul I do enjoy talking to you, quite often will share some of your views I however have a request.
Do not devalue my thoughts and ideas as miss informed, not well thought out, or because of the nature of my education.
I think as I write, these are my true thoughts researched learned and indeed harvested by hours of self education.
I get it wrong, quite wrong, so will you.
But it always will be main stream Australia that elects governments.
Not the extremes, right or left, my view on miners are not as yours are but I would not rely on one for advice on if it was raining.
Those who oppose LABOR for being too much like the LIBERALS condemn us to years of conservative government.
Middle Australia has little understanding of politics, even less care, self interest and dreams of a better often not so, life rule how they vote.
May I be honest? I truly doubt I can.
The beast of political correctness will pounce on me,but much of the greens policy's are being forced on us, and I best not say a truth middle Australia thinks, holds dear , because it will label me, wrongly, for just being honest greens are not an answer for me they are no less a problem than Tony Abbott.

Browsing? saw the new post and had a look?
I often think what do we want out of our visits to OLO.
To say what we think,I do that.
To rebut what we believe is wrong? yep that too.
Here we have a chance to be seen to see others view and to learn.
This is far from my only thread purely against my side of politics.
Even in other threads I give merry hell to the stupidity that some times flows from my side of politics.
And always from the very dead NSW team.
About twenty times, maybe more,I have been charged with ALP bias and blindness.
EXTRAORDINARY STUFF.
not true.
today yet again it happened.
What went wrong, a descriptive thread about Labor/Rudd's failure was mine.
Again and again I hammered home this challenge, to conservatives EVERY ONE OF WHOM has so charged me,to put such a thread about the wrongs on their team in o thread no never ever happened.
This biased bloke, me today introduced myself to the NATIONAL PARTY CANDIDATE for this coming election,took his hand and shook it.
in my union shirt,yes wear them till they drop off me I bought 30 of them.
At that country market day in front of every one I asked him how he wanted his preferences , he already controlled my vote.
He won it again by saying we are not preference .
This you can bank on, no party ever was or will be so good it never needs correcting, none ever, has been as bad as mine here in NSW.
TO BLINDLY SUPPORT IT SAYS FLOG ME,I WILL TAKE IT,AND LET YOU FLOG ME AGAIN.
Yes I am biased my view does not count, silly thing to say but accountability come first for me.

Any one interested in the NSW election next month may like to know.
My party,HMAS ALP Titanic, is running a truly brilliant campaign, no not being sarcastic it is good.
But insults every voter in NSW stunned into inactivity for 12 months, Ministers closing doors to all but a very few, they want to fatten the pig on market day.
Just weeks ago our leader shut Parliament so we could not see inquiry's in to? her sell out of power.
Now hoping against hope we will forget cost increases over her term in office ,even more before that,she plans to? give a very little of it back.
Steal your wallet then make a big deal of giving some back.
Mean while the invisible man, the one Labor voters intend to put in Big Barry, is doing his best to? drive us in to the arms of the greens, he too is not a campaigner, he has this in the bag, can not let it slip , no need for an election.
So what is he up to? true insulting and threatening the federal government! do it after Barry,, no need to ignore the fact Labor voters are not walking away federally.
Australian politics? gee hope we get better one day.
Do not however be fooled Labor if it was a raffle, if they bought every ticket is gone justly so, but Barry may be a one termer.

Belly,
No need to attack your own party, let us and the Liberals do that for you. Been a very positive week for us with our 'Kick out Keneally Campaign" going strong. We are the only party on the ground in Heffron running a strong 'grass roots' campaign. The response to our door knocking, street stalls and events has been extremely good compared to 2007, plus our budget has doubled since then. Engaging with voters has been particularly well received. 'No coal seam gas' has alienated many Labor voters in our west, Labors 3A legislation is also working well in most other parts. The biggest joke is Keneally claim that her big achievements for the voters of Heffron over the past 8 years as local member are the red metro bus service, totally underutilised, and can't believe this one got container trucks off the local roads, just not true. The Liberal candidate, what can I say missing in action, announced the name about 8 weeks ago and yet to be seen.
Paul.

I started the thread Friend to shed honest light on my party's betrayal of, its own roots.
I too reserve the right to say and think what I want to in every thing I ever write.
For me politics current affairs world events are as my NRL is.
I turn every rock look and look again.
Form opinions and ideas based on some understanding.
IF the greens do not get double the normal vote in NSW you will have failed.
No better chance ever existed .
I no taunting, just considered thought, think the greens are going to put the non conservatives federally on the opposition benches.
I believe for every voter you have you have 4 that are afraid of you.
And like Tony Abbott greens are offering things that would destroy this country.
Given new leadership on both sides this country best interests are served by a double dissolution election.
NSW after this term,a rebuilt ALP a real chance greens never again never, to get the numbers you will get in NSW this time.
True honest ALP voters who intend to punish us should do so, by voting conservative, no preferences just conservative greens are not the answer.

Paul sorry my own FEAR of the greens made me a bit too harsh.
I do fear your side disagree with most not all of your policy's.
The fear is also driven by failures on my side.
And not the fear Labor is going to far to the right, more a fear we are staggering to and fro.
Gillard did well yesterday, NSW Labor best serves my team by the cliff jump they call an election next month.
Do you know what has shaken me more?
Every day closer to the election ,every statement from Barry,reminds me I will find it hard to vote for anyone, other than GREENS.
Sorry bloke maybe I can swing you to my team next time.
I can say,with certainty I can not vote Labor.

Belly, with so much media focused on NSW Labor and their short comings the Liberal are getting a free ride. You and I are right to fear them for what they will do when they gain power in this state. Unfortunately Labor may not be able to post a creditable opposition, it may be left to the Greens and others to do the job for them, I fear there will be so much incrimination and pay backs blood letting etc that it may be some time before Labor can settle down and start doing the job. Labor has to clean out the crap, and we know who they are, don't let them go underground and still be pulling the strings, believe me they will try! I look forward to the day when Labor is back in the fold and we can work together to defeat the reactionaries of the right. We cant do that until Labor cleans out their own reactionaries of the right.
Paul.

Well it is here March has arrived.
A month of dread for me, Mother died this month a tragic death after lingering and being unable o talk to us but wide awake.
She ,Dad, me of ten years ago would flog me for this.
I have despised rats in the ranks all my life Labor ranks.
Can name 20 of them,without effort.
Am I one of them?
Never even thinking about voting for Labor, I love the movement far too much to let the past go by.
Then next ALP leader Robo is a top bloke,should have been the leader from his first day in the house.
I know we are to be ruled by an ultra conservative, only such would let Max the Axe in any government building without a cleaning rag in his hands.
My opponent on election day is me.
I am unloved for it, but fear till death the extremism of the greens.
Yet have pledged to vote for them?
Well what else can I do, but what if the greens hold power in the upper house?
I doubt Barry wants to cut as deeply as Victoria did.
OH he will hurt but the ALP gave him his mandate.
I think I will be thrown out of the ALP but those wanting to hurt the ALP,have to think.
I have thought,turned and flipped about like a fish on a hotplate.
For me the greens are my party's enemy,this time I recommend those intending not to vote Labor vote without preference CONSERVATIVE.
I will be forever serving my party what ever it takes but this time it hurts,show me another way, one that is not adding strength to our natural enemy Greens

Belly,
I don't know why you should have a problem with voting Green. In the Maroubra seat ALP Daley is masquerading as a Green. Even done his corflutes in our green colour with ALP reference the size of a match box. I confronted him in the street the other day asking him why the masquerade trying to sneak back into parliament as a what? Wouldn't answer

I best address the title of this thread,after all I named it.
Liberals will be firmly in control with the biggest mandate this state ever saw.
Upper house? a test is to take place, it is extremely important and will be momentous.
How will the greens go.
On the surface you would expect the biggest ever vote of just refugees from the ALP to them, it will be so.
I thought it would be my only path,but Browns team have scared me off, tax on petrol.
For the first 12 months Barry will be riding a wave of contentment, voters will be pleased to have emptied the rubbish.
If he does not go too hard it may be a decade before Labor returns.
Wish this country's most interesting commentator on elections could talk to us here but he may be stopped by his ties to the ABC.

Belly,
As in most seats, here in Heffron The Greens will not give a preference to Labor. As the Liberals are running a bimbo for a candidate I can't see her beating Keneally, but we will be doing our best to win.
Paul.

While the votes are in Labor out, this election will be of immense interest to me.
From my childhood in the bush welded to the old valve radio hoping as every result was told I am an election night nut.
Of interest to me is the upper house, greens votes in both houses and in total.
Independents will any be returned?
And what is the Conservative over all vote,as opposed to all not conservative ones.
Upper house? we should not have them, but if we see a road blocked one we will be the poorer for it.
Labor is so far gone we are not being asked to put placards out like most years.
But as NSW votes it is full of interest.
And for months after my interest will be very strong and concentrated on how good Barry is,he will not be the flop some think, after all he has not much to beat .

Belly
I can only speak for my area in south-east Sydney. In Coogee Labors Paul Pearce is gone, running 3rd in a 3 horse race Liberals will win that seat. Although the Greens are preferencing Labor there. Maroubra, Labor Daley has the fight of his life with the Liberals, he's resorted to running around pretending he's Green. Don't know if Murray Matson (Greens) is going to preference Daley, he would need them to beat the Liberal he didn't think so last time I spoke with him, I wouldn't. In Heffron my seat the Greens are not preferenceing anyone Keneally is on her own, We are the only chance of defeating her, Liberals no chance. Greens are well ahead of Labor in Marrickville and Balmain we'll win both seats. In my area the state of play look like Liberal 1 Greens 2 Labor 1 Doubtful 1.

Belly,
Just to up date you The Greens are not preferencing Labor in Maroubra that may be a body blow to Righ Wing Daley, Liberals may well win Maroubra. So as I see my area going from 5 Labor seats to 1 maybe 2 at best, Daley has fair local support, depends how many vote Green. By the way I'm 57!

Cheers Paul