ALGORE, I just read this description from another
discussion that you started:

"The 'everything is a Fabian plot to undermine society' rant."

Which seems very apt. Silly me, I hadn't realised
quite the extent to which this vast conspiracy theory
is apparently an obsession with you. I'll know to
leave it alone in future, as I've learned that those
who subscribe to such fantasies are impervious to
reason.

Also, we're around the same age, but we obviously
differ radically in our experience of the social
revolutions of the 1960s. There's nothing wrong
with a bit of S&M porn if that's what consenting
adults are into. It's not my thing, but I have
personally derived much enjoyment in my time from
the relaxation of the prudish sexual morality that
I was born into.

Apparently you don't. Are you a fan of Fred Nile
and other such reactionary wowsers?

Gee, Boaz, I thought you'd be hopping from foot to foot with excitement at Obama's capitulation to the Republicans on the tax-break extension.

>>Obama just extended the Unemployment benefits for 13more months. (using money the USA doesn't have of course)<<

It went like this.

Obama had committed to repeal the tax breaks that affected the US' 400 or so billionnaires, and get them to stick their grubby little hands just a teensy bit deeper into their pockets.

The Republicans (read: redneck shock jocks) branded this "un-American", and forced him to leave them in place.

Well done guys. Obviously, the task of dragging the US away from the Bush-created recession is not your problem, it is "the governments".

Luv yer work.

Dear Talisman... clearly I'm moving too fast for your (and my:) old brain.

Let me back up a tad.

1/ The Fabians were begun by....identifiable, specific individuals who spelt out their agenda. (Bring Socialism to the world)

with me so far? Just to underline it...this isn't 'conspiracy' theory it's historical fact. This is not a 'building 7 was blown up wild theory..it is documented by the people themselves. That's called 'oncontrovertable evidence'.

2/ The Fabian window demonstrates their grand vision for the world, as it was commissioned by the founders to do just that. Again...nothing 'theoretical' about it... implaccable historical fact.

3/ As further evidence of their specific, identifiable, verifiable plan...they founded such institutions as the Londone School of Economics to spread their ideology.

4/ In the example cited for the Grove publishing scoundrel Henry Rosset, he studied at a "New University for social research" founded by the Fabians.

Interestingly, the things which "turned Rosset on" (kinky sex) ALSO turned on a significant number of "progressive" New York socialites who (to QUOTE one) "we had the best orgies at that time.. sex clubs etc"

Again...there is ZERO argument from silence or assumption.. only historical fact which is completely harmonious with line of fact and reason.

Always remember the Fabians CHOSE their name for a very good reason. It was to reflect their methodology. "Gradualism"

Now..I observe Pericles reasonable sounding points in his 2nd last post..and will address them in my next..please read.

PERICLES... I'll devote a separate post to that thoughtful 2nd last one.

PERICLES...

addressing a couple of points you raised.

1/The formation of a PEACE-oriented group, who believed that the goodness of mankind could be best developed through education, rather than violence, was quite refreshing.

2/ The notion that such societal IMPROVEMENTS could be brought about without the need for revolutionary upheaval .....

3/ you need to respect Fabianism for what it was: the peaceful road to social justice.

Ouch Ouch and OUUUUCH! Wellll... we can see some of your own socio-philosophical presuppositions emerging now... can't we!

So, develop the goodness of mankind ? :) Oh yessss... "Orgies/Sex parties/Pornography" yep.. amazing stuff. (Grove publishing mob and progressive associates)

"Improvements" ? hmmmm... you tell more about yourself there mate.

The reason fabianism is being attacked now, is that it is STILL at work, with the same objectives.

Let's not forget what Socialism is Pericles.. "total control" of peoples lives, the dissappearance of freedom and the imposition of State as god. It destroys initiative and vision..replacing those things with 'social improvements' which are decided by an educated elite. Unnnnfortunately.. it simply doesn't work.

It always begins with Capitalist funding, and ends with everyone being equally broke. (and miserable)

SOCIAL JUSTICE ? ? ? you must be kidding. This is becoming a technical term for 'redistribution of wealth' by using a legislative sledge hammer, rather than a softly softly, not overly encroaching approach.
There is ZERO 'justice' in simply spending what you don't have.
There is ZERO 'justice' in deceiving society with promises of social justice which REALLY means "Jobs for my union or party members"
'That'..is unjust tyrrany.

Hello ALGORE. As I said, I'm not going to play.

But I will point out that nobody takes socialism
seriously these days, except a few pimply uni
students and unreconstructed old guard unionists,
the odd surviving dictator and lately, the lunar
right commentariat in the USA.

Might I suggest you eschew Beck and the Bible, in
favour of the writings of Brown*, who I think really
exposes the kinds of secret international machinations
that apparently fascinate you.

* Dan, not Bob.

I just adore the way you leap to conclusions, Boaz, clearing tall buildings of fact and logic with a single bound.

>>Ouch Ouch and OUUUUCH! Wellll... we can see some of your own socio-philosophical presuppositions emerging now... can't we!<<

Actually, they were the "socio-philosophical presuppositions" of the Fabians, Boaz. My own views are not on display here.

But the whole point is that they would not be Fabians if they did not believe most fervently that their aspirations for the world were intended to improve, rather than destroy.

They would instead have been revolutionaries (of which there were plenty at that time) or anarchists (ditto), who actively promoted upheaval and violence as the means to achieve their ends.

Which, by the way, were in the eyes of the revolutionary and the anarchist, as equally beneficial to humankind as the gentler, kinder approach of the Fabians.

>>Oh yessss... "Orgies/Sex parties/Pornography" yep.. amazing stuff. (Grove publishing mob and progressive associates)<<

Now you have to be a little careful in your cause/effect analysis here, Boaz. You are using the same logic that says that paedophile priests are a direct result of the teachings of Jesus. Which, we all recognize, is not the case.

>>Let's not forget what Socialism is Pericles.. "total control" of peoples lives<<

Not really. That's just the bogeyman Socialism that the shock-jock community want you to fear. Once they have done that, then they can label anything remotely egalitarian as "Socialist", and you all knee-jerk your shock-horror response, like good little yes-men.

Incidentally, you are still relying too heavily on the symbolism that you have read - or more accurately, have been told to read - into that window. It's a window, Boaz. Just a whimsical, slightly tongue-in-cheek pictured window.

I suggest also that you investigate a little more closely the position of LSE in your Fabian universe.

And explain, if you can, how Goh Keng Swee, an LSE alumnus and the principal architect the economic policies that drove Singapore from backwater to thriving commercial hub, represents the Fabian ideal.

Or Mick Jagger, come to that.