When does a child learn from a smack?

What are the effects on kids when they have not had a smack when they have needed instand correction?
Would kids that have not had a smack have less respect for adults and others? would they become troubled teens due to a lack of diccipline?

ohh dear smaking...please state at the beginning..
that evidence quoted here..can/may/will-be used against you

so saying...only in times of real danger..with those not comprehending words...the three times i did it

when i caught my child sukking on a power cord

attempting..the crossing a busy street
before i taught her the road rules

the third time..cause..i let the dog teach..the lesson
and it snapped...at him...as crankey dogs will do

the first people of these lands believe smaking only drives the problem deeper in...they firmly hold parents should never smack

believing...pa-rents should only* give love
never censure...

that parents make the human...
and society forms..the citisen

unsure if i should watch..*this topic
one should be carefull of comming..[commenting]..
between the parent/child..bond...

the best..is to be the best egsample
is..to have..your child/.. see..
that..we wish...'them..to be

Aussy:“When does a child learn from a smack?”

The only learning is 'this action = pain'.

Aussy:”What are the effects on kids when they have not had a smack when they have needed instand correction?”

No effect. Smacking as a correction instant or otherwise is flawed.

Aussy:”Would kids that have not had a smack have less respect for adults and others? would they become troubled teens due to a lack of diccipline?”

Smacking isn’t how an adult gains respect.

I think it is more than physical consequences, or lack of, for actions that result in a teenager being troubled.

Not smacking is no more likely to make a child troubled or bad if there are other methods of discipline and a lot depends on the relationships formed between parent and child.

There are many influences, including lack of discipline, that might lead a child, depending on their personality, to become disrespectful of others.

Role modelling probably has a greater effect on influencing behaviour than smacking or not smacking.

The over use of smacking might also lead a child to become disprespectful.

Smacking has a place, but it should be used rarely IMO.

The effects of kids not getting smacked are clearly seen in society. More violence, less respect, bigger liars, more vandalism and contempt for the law. The sooky social engineers of the 60's and 70's have proven a total failure. People are dumb enough to ask why we have so much violence now in our communities. No doubt some uni has done a study showing how much distress smacking causes. Just wait for some dingbat to tell you the 'science is settled' People are very gullible.

I think theres a diffrence between a quick smack on the bum when a kids in danger or something and flogging your kids or even just yelling at them all the time. But we realy should avoid hitting kids (and Adults too!)

Thanks,
My kids rarely got a smack when they were little and other things are more effctive but they did fully get the rule: I count till 3... giving them a little time to obey. As they need to learn to obey dad and mum to become listning, kind and lovely kids. kids learn with mistakes made but they also need a consequence if they have hurt others or their belongings. A loving but firm enviroment/ bounderies to feel safe, secure respected and loved.
I watch parens being to busy to bother to shape their children into respectful and kind human beings. Kids need to learn to see the need of others. The world does not turn around them alone.

Smacking is a great debate as there are so many different vieuws!!

Runner:”The effects of kids not getting smacked are clearly seen in society. More violence, less respect, bigger liars, more vandalism and contempt for the law. “

You know the violent disrespectful vandalizing liars with contempt for the law weren’t smacked as children? I’d guess they probably came from homes where a smack was getting off lightly.

Runner:”The sooky social engineers of the 60's and 70's have proven a total failure.”

Maybe, what does it have to do with smacking?

Runner:”People are dumb enough to ask why we have so much violence now in our communities. No doubt some uni has done a study showing how much distress smacking causes. “

Of course it causes distress (at the very least) that is why many do it. Not however in the examples OUG gave though… I think that was Action = Pain but the pain I inflict wont be nearly as bad as a truck mowing you down or a few thousand volts passing through your little body.

runner your passion for smacking is scary.

aussy first just to preempt those who will try and relate this to adult's beating up kid's, beating up kid's is a different issue.

As I understand it the current research seems to suggest real value in limited use of smacking when children are to young to understand other approaches. Beyond that there is a small correlation between frequent smacking and problem behaviors (assaulting others, sexual coercion etc) especially if the smacking is associated with high levels of demonstrated affection. Some coverage of the latter at http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP91-ID91-PR91-%20Draft%20I%20with%20Gamez%20comments%20accepted.pdf

I don't think I've got anything handy on more recent work which shows some positive outcomes for children who were smacked at appropriate times when young. Again I think it's a small correlation, not a smack or else scenario.

I think that there is a lot of emotive overplay on both sides of the debate. I'm strongly of the view that the stuff runner discusses is a reflection of a lack of discipline of any kind for some kid's not a lack of smacking but also of the view that kid's and parents can be saved a lot of pain by a smack at the right time and place.

R0bert

When you watch the horse races, the horses always seem to run faster when the jockeys whack them. And so logically, the more often you smack your children, the better they will do on the athletics field.

Yes Pat, but only if you are fast enough to keep up with them, during the race.

Runner, you took the words out of my mouth. The present state of western society absolutely proves that all those sooky 60s experts were wrong.

RObert there is nothing like looking at the real world results to see the truth.

As we can see with our global warming trick, research can all too often give the result desired by the researcher. Deferring to the "current" research is mostly a waste of time, when it will be corrected next year by more new research.

Just how many amazing new research results make a huge splash, [when announced often on our ABC], only to sink like a stone next week. Publish or perish has a lot to answer for in the ills of our society.

The humanities are the worst at this stuff, as it is all only someones opinion, with little fact involved. You only have to look at the constant change in the recommendations of nutritionists to see how "research" results, even in real science, are often subjective.

Hasbeen the focus on smacking compared to discipline (boundaries and consequences etc) hurts the debate. It takes attention away from the bigger issues.

In the real world I see some who don't smack with great kid's, others with little monsters. Same with those who do smack. Smacking which is done away away from a framework of consistent discipline just sorts out an immediate issues (mummy or daddy is upset right now) rather than helping a child learn to operate as a human being in the real world.

The research is useful (if you watch for agenda's) because it helps us step outside our own demographics and what we already believe.

R0bert

Where I live the same ppl who bash theyr kid's also bash theyre partner's (Men AND Woman!)

Aw Hasbeen it’s Friday, I don’t wanna do a thing about which generation was worst than the last.

They just keep getting bigger with more access to communication, not worse from what I can tell.

Why didn’t you lot stop the sooky experts? Slackers!

Aussy why three? Why not 7 or 38?

R0bert the problem is you don’t have a crystal ball to see if no smacks would have been better than some smacks.

Nice Pat. :)

Dr H. Ginott many years ago wrote the book - "Teacher and Child:
A Book for Parents and Teachers." in it he has a marvellous chapter on
discipline which may be of interest on this discussion topic. Dr Ginott tells readers that:

"Misbehaviour and punishment are not opposites that cancel each other; on the contrary, they breed and reinforce each other. Punishment does not deter misconduct. When a child is punished he resolves to be more careful, not more honest and responsible."

"One high school student related: "Our teacher gave a long sermon on integrity. I listened and laughed inside. She herself teaches dishonesty and doesn't know it. I was late to school once because I overslept. She said, "That's not a good excuse," and she punished me.
I got the message. The next time I was late. I made up a convincing story."

Accordin to Dr Ginott -

"Punishment fails to achieve its goal. No child says to himself, while being punished, "I am going to improve. I am going to be a better person - more responsible, generous, and loving." Children know that punishment is rarely administered for their benefit, that it serves the needs of the punishing adult."

"Parents ask, "Don't children have to be taught responsibility and respect, if not by persuasion, then by punishment?" Ethical concepts such as responsibility, respect, loyalty, honesty, charity, mercy cannot be taught directly. They can only be learned in concrete life situations from people one respects. One grows into virtue; one cannot be forced by punishment."

Discipline, like surgery, requires precision - no random cuts, no rambling comments. A parent demonstrates self-discipline and good manners - no tantrums, no insults, no blistering language. A parent's authority comes from competent exercise of personal persuasion. Their
best weapons are a cultured distaste for violence and a civilized disbelief in punishment. For in the last analysis, who is a true disciplinarian? The person who can move children from terror to trust.

Robert

'runner your passion for smacking is scary.'

Don't be scared mate, my kids have gone on to achieve highly at uni, sport and in the workplace. The social engineers have been proven completely wrong. What is scary is those who have a 'passion' to lead their kids to believe their are no consequences for bad. behaviour. That is largely why we have the violence today among teens and young adults. What you find is a few smacks early on prevent a lot more drugs later on.

runner "What is scary is those who have a 'passion' to lead their kids to believe their are no consequences for bad. behaviour."

That I agree with. My concern is with making smacking the issue rather than the purpose of discipline.

R0bert

King James Bible
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Ive said it before.... hitting kids is assault.
The same as hitting an adult. Actually it is worse.
It is illogical in the extreme to say that it is not. Or to refer to children as "animals who cannot be dealt with except through violence". Which is exactly what you are saying when you say it is the only way to get small children to understand.
I am appalled that some of you see your toddlers as no better than a dog. Children are not your possessions they are your responsibility.
If your child is sucking on power points, walking on roads etc etc then it is you that is failing and should be punished not your child.

As a kid I would have preferred a good smack that was over and done with than a verbal tirade of abuse and character assassination. A smack is a simple message easily understood rather than an exercise in emotional trauma.

Houel:”As a kid I would have preferred a good smack that was over and done with than a verbal tirade of abuse and character assassination. A smack is a simple message easily understood rather than an exercise in emotional trauma.”

Oh well yeah if we go down that road I would rather a smack then say my finger nails being ripped out as a "lesson".

Runner:”What you find is a few smacks early on prevent a lot more drugs later on.”

I don’t believe you really believe that. Be great if life was that simple eh.

Well said Mikk.

Huggins babe, you really gotta move.

Kudos Mikk and Pied Piper.

I never raised a hand to my daughter - tempted yes, managed to keep to very firm voice. I think as a male I have advantages - I do great deep firm gravitas, whereas my ex tends towards shrill, though she never smacked our little girl either.

At 12 and highly intelligent I am finding her more of a challenge than ever - hate to admit it, but suspect she is way smarter than her old man. Arguments are more like high level debates - and she's Geoffrey Robertson and I am challenged greatly (which is another way of saying I feel like a dolt). We both share a similar temperament, quick to flare up but then we cool off and can actually talk. I hope as she journeys further into her teen years that she will still see me as approachable as she does now. So much pressure on young teens - like I don't want her getting the "woman as object" thing - she is her own person. Although I loathed the 'fairy costume' stage which lasted from 5 to 7!, at the same time she would climb trees and I mean at the same time - have a great shot of her sitting in a willow tree in fairy dress - too cute.

Hitting someone smaller, weaker and dependent on you - I can't believe the Runners and their ilk - you lot are either sadists or control freaks or both.

How approachable do kids who have been slapped find their parents I wonder? If they aren't comfortable talking to their parents aren't they more likely to wind up turning to others who may not have their best interests at heart? I was lucky, I had an aunt I knew I could always confide in, who do the children abused by their parents turn to?

Smacking should be available but rarely used.
Unless on those parents who scream and shout at the child and do nothing else.
Such kids know shouted words can not hurt and ignore parent after a while.
Mum would not let dad smack us, but we got away with hell once we knew she would let us.

So much garbage!

Lexi, your Dr Ginott is the bloke who's advice you should avoid at all costs. Most of these people think of self, when suggesting responses. His is just the type of vindictive person you don't want to listen to.

Then all this pontificating as if one size fits all, more garbage.

I have one daughter I had to handle with kid gloves. A serious frown would destroy her.

I have another who would have ignored any physical punishment, less than crippling. She spent a lot of time in her room.

I have a son who, if sent to their room would have simply found a computer to rebuild, or some such interesting outlet.

Yes he got a few smacks, but he also chased cattle, played polocrosse, & built cars with me, & still comes home regularly to help out. He also enjoys long interstate drives to shows with me in the old cars we love.

The thing that gets me is the cr4p sprouted by the "you must not" brigade, as if one size fits all, & they know all the answers. The fact that they are so one eyed shows they know nothing.

Little wonder that so many kids from "good" homes go very bad.

Wonderful advice Hasbeen.

Who said old timers weren't worth listening to? That little spiel makes up for all the 'back in my day' 'good 'ol days' rants I always slam old people for.

When it comes to parenting, it has now become a field for 'experts' with one size fits all advice. Best Practise for parenting. The new field of endeavour, raising little projects. The weird thing is normally the people who are fretting about to smack or not aren't the people who should be worrying about how they're parenting. Then again the obsession with their kids I feel is a bit over the top so I can imagine pressure on the kids to perform being massive with all that expectation and effort. Gymberoooooo! So funny. I know someone *paying* for swimming lessons for a 4 month old. Nuts! But to each their own.

When it comes to my kids, My partner and I are the experts. It's really not that hard so far. Sure I haven't got teenagers yet, but before I had kids everyone kept telling me how terrible it would all be. Now it might be that my kids are just little angels so I cant relate, but I really had to wonder whether all the people with all these dire warnings and tales of woe really liked kids at all. They used to tell me I was naive when I was confident my kids would be great and I would enjoy it so much and it would be a piece of cake and I ignored all their negativity.

People judge everything every other parent does all the time like it's some kind of competition. I reckon parenting is 70% luck.

The best advice I got was from an Aunty after the birth of my first. She mailed me with a very short note which basically said 'Do what comes naturally'. Sounds like common sense, you end up raising your kids in tune with your own values and naturally won't want to hurt them. Simple observation of cause and effect should be all the info you need.

Hasbeen:

I quoted the book by Dr Ginott because I thought it might be of interest and add something extra to this discussion. Of course he was expressing his opinion as a child psychologist and former teacher, and
his book offers tools and skills for dealing with daily situations and psychological problems faced predominantly by teachers.

As Houellebcq so beautifully pointed out to us, as parents we should do what we feel is best for our child. I'm pleased that your children turned out so well.I've been equally blessed with mine. Unlike ships, human relations founder on pebbles, not reefs. And as parents we can be most destructive or most instructive in dealing with everyday disiplinary problems. Our instant response makes the difference between condemnation and consolation. Good discipline is a series of little victories in which,a parent through small decencies reaches a child's heart.

UOG>> the best..is to be the best egsample
is..to have..your child/.. see..
that..we wish...'them..to be <<

UOG even in your pigeon prose, that was well said, commendable in fact, but I whacked mine on occasions, the practice died when I believed I could communicate with them better as they had matured, that was about 19, just kidding, it ended when they started school and it was a conscious decision based on if they haven't caught on by now, whacking them does not help.

The thread interests me.
I love kids, was one once.
I helped bring up 5 of my siblings after dad died then 5 sometimes more of my siblings kids.
I leaned as I went along, it was a once in a life time thing to smack other than one sharp hit.
I like and respect modern parenting, from a kids should be seen but not heard generation,its better now.
But not for all, how do you say this without looking bad? young parents teach kids to swear, drink, show of by insulting visitors.
No not all of them some, then never truly get those kids back under control.
I used the stick it on the fridge and fuss over it stuff love caring and rewards, but did no better or worse than any one.
Now? I try to remind a battered kid, and I see some, not every one is like that and that they are important.
So tell me no fixed rules, they do not exist but think from the kids view point and know it can make you a better parent.

Young children don't actually understand morals at early mental developmental stages, their only motivations are to either please their parents (if they could personally care less at the time- depending on the child) or to avoid getting into trouble (assuming they could care about the punishment).

Most people resort to smacking to fill in that gap;
Of course, any suggestions as to how else to discipline a child who at that point, does not understand right or wrong beyond it resulting in direct punishment to them, then this should be brought forward.

WOW! Just a wonderful single minded thought from what?

Look People, the laws of nature are quite clear. What you have been brain-washed with is, is the christian way..... just look at how the USA have let their own children behave! And you wonder why the supper- nanny is needed! OH my god!

EG! When you buy your first puppy-dog and it poo's on your carpet? What do you do?

1. You rub its noise in it...............or!

2. Just let it sh!t where ever it want to?

I believe some people should seek some help.

Or! not breed.

In my house! Iam boss! I say...........you don't like it, You support your self.

Life is hard, and don't you not tell them that.

BLUE

Deep Blue welcome back.
Hope you do not mind a little frankness.
This post and another from you I see this morning are?
Well not sure what you are saying.
See some anger and just maybe, not sure, a small bit of my view is better than yours.
Welcome back.

Awwwww Johny Rotten....you ol softy you :)

"Hitting someone smaller, weaker and dependent on you - I can't believe the Runners and their ilk - you lot are either sadists or control freaks or both."

Johny... that is a characterization of extreme negativity driven by a strong desire for self assurance, and vindication for your own child rearing methods.

There are many aspects of weakness to your statement, but I'll not take it apart at this point. Suffice to say that when I was a kid, I absolutely knew the difference between a just and unjust smack. I only resented the unjust ones..and from memory, I had 1 definite and one dubious. The dubious one makes for a good story though.. mum chased me around the house yelling "you better stop now or you'll get it when your father comes home" :)
All that because I turned around in the bus and knelt on the seat looking out the window.. grrr.

Biblical Principle is clear: "Spare the rod and spoil the child"

Where a 'rod' can be many forms of correction.

Or..

"The road to life is a disciplined life; ignore correction and you're lost for good.” (Proverbs 10:17)

Johny...do you believe in God?

If not..then why would you call people who exercise corporal punishment 'sadists'.... if you don't believe in God old son you are left with an entirely naturalistic universe and.. dare I say.. the standard method of 'discipline' in the animal world is a growl, (and if that fails) a bite, a whack or a scratch.

You have absolutely ZERO right (if you are an atheist) to criticize any other persons approach to discipline, because after all.. we are simply meaningless 'blobs' of organism and flesh.

"You have absolutely ZERO right (if you are an atheist) to criticize any other persons approach to discipline, because after all.. we are simply meaningless 'blobs' of organism and flesh."

i second that. who are you to say what is right and wrong to another? god?

too bad certain people abuse their power over the weak. do it wrong and u will end up all alone when ur older, where ur kids don't even wanna see u, as expressed by some people, doesn't have anything to do with the smacking does it?

as far as i know, smacking and physical punishment towards children is against the law here. what happened to that mom who smacked her son for misbehaving at the shops? got fined, and i think i read(this was last year), she can't have a mother-son relationship anymore. great laws, poor mom...

If you can't discipline your child without inflicting pain on them, you are a very sorry person indeed. At the least unimaginative and lazy.

Jesus said: "do unto others as you would have done unto you".

I'm assuming those Christian smackers here would therefore be happy to have someone twice their height and four times their weight hitting them everytime you didn't do what they wanted. Perhaps you think employers should be allowed to whack their workers too?

Runner, the crime rate in Australia is DROPPING. So i don't get what you mean about increases in violence caused by lack of discipline. It would seem that the decline in beating children correlates with less crime, therefore completely opposite to your claim.

I have two children, I have no problem teaching guiding and discipling them without smacking. And they are not being taught that violence against others willget them to do what you want. And I was told last night by a teacher that my 8 yr old son is the most polite child she has ever met.

Smacking is just unnecessary and for the weak minded

Why do some peple want to Bash theyr Kids? No wonder Men and Woman bash each other they learned it when they was kids.

it's called ignorance. see if all parents read and understood threads like this and the feedback it's gotten, maybe then they will realize where they're going wrong.

smacking kids don't get u anywhere.. it's just a form of punishment we were made to believe will work, because it instills fear in a child.

Thanks belly.

What I meant was, is that the religious people do have a good point. I don't know if you have ever watched the super-nanny-USA......well....what a bunch of brats. ( UK,AUST,AND in many other countries ) and parents wonder why little Johnny/Jenny is such a disrespectful, uncontrollable cheeky pill-popping ADHD addict.

http://tinyurl.com/235x59b

Just read some of the comments at the bottom.



Smacking children from 2to5 years is highly important in my view, however as always some will disagree. Once the boss has made the call on who's, who's in the house-hold food-chain, I myself have had 15 years of order and harmony with showing early what the adult says, go's.

It works a charm. After the age of five, I've had little to NO problem what so ever, thanks to early discipline. Again! some will disagree, but when you can take your children any-where and they show good and well behaved self-control, and then you see others pulling their hair out..........well...........Dont my family look good:)
I pity some parents..........my children just look on horrified when theirs totally loose it.


Gore:) What a cold description.

"You have absolutely ZERO right (if you are an atheist) to criticize any other persons approach to discipline, because after all.. we are simply meaningless 'blobs' of organism and flesh."

BLUE

"You have absolutely ZERO right (if you are an atheist) to criticize any other persons approach to discipline, because after all.. we are simply meaningless 'blobs' of organism and flesh."

No-one said meaningless but we are organisms of flesh but that does not mean humans with their higher order intellect don't have spirit however that might be defiend.

That is the view of a Christian about atheism but the atheist might argue that conjuring up a false God to worship or to instil morality is equally meaningless when the ability to love, tendency to altruism and to form bonds lies within - with or without religion.

It worries me more that people with religion believe that without it they would commit horrific acts or crimes. You are better than that - but you do what you need to do to get you through and atheists in all their different colours will continue to wait for proof of the supernatural.

I would not use Christianity as a prop for flogging children.
Not while we know just how bad some kids have been treated in such.
What we may find hard to understand is Christianity is not part of the lives of most family's and has no real impact on this thread.
A balanced view is my way sometimes you just must lightly slap a kid, in such times you should remember it is your failure to teach the child that bought about that need.

Deepblue,

It may have worked, but that doesn't mean it was necessary. There are better and more effective ways to teach children than by hitting them. Smacking is the easy way out and all the excuses in the world won't justify it when there are alternatives which are just as effective. It is just the easiest option for people who have no self control.

You know TCM and belly, I would of thought the comment I made would of caused a land-slide of disapproval, however correcting a child with the technique we have devised showed the child, "that if you don't like it done to you' don't do it to others" ( repetition ) and that was the basic principle, along with explaining to the child with up-most patience's about what the act was that needed correcting.

Again TCM, the proof is in the pudding. All have a healthy respect for all things, and even in the animal kingdom........ all in some way or form put their siblings order and not for any other reason than to teach.

And you do know out-of-control-siblings are good for business:)

This NO smacking policy was introduced by the religious factions from the US and we just simply followed them as we keep doing.
Anyway...talking and correcting in the one frame does in-fact serve a duel roll.

Belly said....

"I would not use Christianity as a prop for flogging children.
Not while we know just how bad some kids have been treated in such.

Yes your quite right, but its funny that they are the one's that are the least in trouble. I think it all comes down to good parenting and balance.

TCM said...

"It is just the easiest option for people who have no self control."

I disagree with that entirely............Loosing control will just destroy the child trust in you ETC....

Like I've said, while my children were growing up" quote....Its all 50/50. and they know what that means:)

I do have reasonably long and neat ways of explaining things, well that's what they say to me still:)

BLU

Proverbs 23:13Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. (KJV)

Dear ALG, as you are I believe biblical literalist I think it is not for you to call this a just a principle. The use of the rod is reaffirmed many times in scripture and as a follower of the good book any discipline you melt should involve this divinely decreed implement.

Dear runner,

When Robert called your passion for smacking 'scary' you replied;

“Don't be scared mate, my kids have gone on to achieve highly at uni, sport and in the workplace. The social engineers have been proven completely wrong. What is scary is those who have a 'passion' to lead their kids to believe their are no consequences for bad. behaviour. That is largely why we have the violence today among teens and young adults. What you find is a few smacks early on prevent a lot more drugs later on.”

When I brag about my children I tend to focus on them being kind, gentle, compassionate, and happy. I have never smacked either of them.

Perhaps our priorities are just different.

Just an observation on a child that was not smacked.

Friends of mine had a girl and neither he nor the Mrs smacked the child. They would reason with the child from the earliest age. By the time the kid was 5 she was a pain. She took no direction whatsoever and the only time my friends would physically take hold of her was if there was an imminent danger in what she was doing.

Social occasions in their home or when they visited others was filled with the continual pleading from one or the other to the child, please don't touch that, please don't do that again, it went on and on. It soon caused friction between the friends who have to cope with this behavior for hours (I was the only single in the group then and the kid could have climbed the Harbour bridge for all I cared).

This friction also settled on the immediate family and the respective grandparents in particular. The animosity over this hung in the air for over ten years and it put a dampener on every family gathering.

After many years of pleading with the child he retired to the tool shed and she retired to her room to read. The upshot is the kid turned into a great teen then adult but the way I see it is if she got something to fear by way of the odd clip they could have had a smooth family life rather than the high tension action packed ten years they suffered through.

It is more than disappointing when adults cannot raise children that are respectful of others and others property. It is the journey and not the end result that a family group can recall as a wonderful time.

When small it can be difficult and tiring and often painless physical intervention becomes repetitive.

Smacking, nagging, lecturing, threatening, whining or shouting are signs of a parent not coping or perhaps understanding their role. Often they have not considered that parenting a little person requires more than being coercive. There are resources readily available that can assist in learning how to be a more effective parent.

The larger concern is the degree the smacking parent chooses to draw the line. The bar is drawn in each smacking household. Smacking to one parent is hitting to another which is abuse to yet another.

Questions like where to smack, how hard to smack and how many smacks at one time aren’t questions front brained by many other species. Some humans appear to have already subconsciously answered without considering the questions themselves repugnant.

Do they first ask themselves what the child is doing wrong that they believe can only be corrected with a hand connecting at the speed of smack.

I’d suggest questions like that conflict with ego.

This is my opinion.

I think we are evolved enough to handle any situation without resorting to physical violence or punishment.

A child needs disaplin yes, they need it delivered consistently with respect and reasoning. A sound mental mind should be able tell their kids what they are doing wrong, tell them of the consequences and calmly, firmly act on it if the bad behaviour exists.
If a parent can't handle it and they crack, they aren't really ready to be parents and they can't say that they did everything they could.

I'll tell you from what I have learned. I was smacked regularly and I turned out to be respectful and quite happy in life.

However, although I love my parents to death, I have lost respect for them due to the emotional instability I witnessed as a child. I see them as mentally weak and I am the one who made me the way I am today not them. I think if they approached my naughty behaviour with reason and consistent consequences in a rational way, I would be the same person.
I see yelling at kids and hitting them as weak willed. Kids can see that too.

One child can have the same upbringing as onother and still turn out to be completely different. Why is that? One parent would say smacking is efective and another would say not. People are not born blank, parents don't make their kids, they just have the privlege of helping them out in life.
A parent who believes that they are bigger, therefor better than their kids misses out on a measure of respect from their kids, whether they say it or not.

Smacking is an easy way out. I think it is an effective way to produce the desired result in half time. I think treating kids with respect is more important.

Sticking to your guns and not giving into a child winging or pleading is a way to undo the hard work and start all over.

Proponents of smacking don't understand that violence against children doesn't elicit respect from them, only fear.

If you want your child to fear you, hit them.

If you want your child to respect you, respect them and don't hit them. They can still quite easily be disciplined and punished for their bad behaviour without you teaching them that violence is a valid form of communication.

Hmm

Bummer... I meant

*Not sticking to your guns and giving into a child winging or pleading is a way to undo the hard work and start all over*

I was smacked as a child to a fairly late age and I don’t remember gaining any respect for my parents when they did it. On the contrary, I can remember instinctively feeling that what they had done made them just as bad as me. I never viewed their smacks as a desire to teach me right from wrong, but as a way of venting their frustration with me. They only stopped the smacking because I started hitting back.

Of course, a quick sting on the bum is sometimes necessary for very young children who need a shock because of the potential danger of what they’re doing. But once they hit an age where they’re going to remember the smacks, it’s time to stop.

SoG,

I suspect the problem with the parents you knew wasn’t necessarily that they didn’t smack, but that they made the mistake of trying to reason with a child. There’s a pretty big grey area in between smacking and reasoning.

In my early 20’s, I dated a woman who had a three year old son. She used to try to reason with him until I pointed out how ridiculous that was and suggested that she start sending him to his room or sending him to bed early.

At first, it took a lot of reassuring her while we listened to him scream in his room for an hour straight, but by the time he was four, he was one of the most pleasant and obedient children I knew of.

TrashcanMan:>> Proponents of smacking don't understand that violence against children doesn't elicit respect from them, only fear.
If you want your child to fear you, hit them.
If you want your child to respect you, respect them and don't hit them.<<

TCM there is certainly validity and reason in your thought, but if I as a child and adolescent is anything to go by I did not develop a "respect" for my parents input especially if it was contrary to what I wanted to do.

This might be of interest to some, and these are teachers talking about in school time ( religion and news ). IMO teachers would have a better time controlling/teaching, if discipline begins at home. Who remembers getting a little smack at the age of 2 to 5? If you say I did.....I and many others wouldn't believe you.

However at the age of eight, I painted the new brick-work that had just been done to the house..........and got a smack on the back of the hand........and never did that again......but what would of that developed into if told " don't do that you naughty boy....I bet when their backs was turned.........I would of probably finished it off:)

There was a line........which helped me not to cross other lines as time when on.

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BLUE